From sh162551@sac.sfbay.sun.com Mon May 26 19:33:14 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4R2XER1000481 for ; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4R2XEJH019516; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1I006039REWC00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1I0024B9RERUB0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (new-sac.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.175.65]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4R2XDWs005927; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4R2XCuS000474; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sh162551@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m4R2XCLj000470; Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Shi-Ying Irene Huang Subject: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] To: lsarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 6183 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.66 04/17/08 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: GnuTLS Update 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Jeff Cai 1.3 Date of This Document: 26 May, 2008 4. Technical Description 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: GnuTLS 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Jeff Cai Sponser: Irene Huang 1.3. Date of This Document: 05/22/2008 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): 1.4.1. The PAC or CPT you expect to review your project: Solaris PAC 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: LSARC 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: Robert O'Dea 1.4.4. The name of your business unit: Software - OPG 1.5. Email Aliases: 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: harry.lu@sun.com 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: jeff.cai@sun.com 1.5.3. Marketing Manager: 1.5.4. Interest List: brian.cameron@sun.com darren.moffat@sun.com wyllys.ingersoll@sun.com 2. Project Summary 2.1. Project Description: GnuTLS provides a secure layer, over a reliable transport layer. Currently the GnuTLS library implements the proposed standards by the IETF's TLS working group. This fast-track increments the version of GnuTLS in Solaris from 1.6.3 to 2.2.4. 3. Technical Description: 3.1. Details: GnuTLS is a modern C library that implements the standard network security protocol Transport Layer Security (TLS), for use by network applications. A number of projects in Solaris Desktop such as Evolution, Pidgin, Ekiga and Vino depend on it. The latest stable version of GnuTLS is 2.2.4. Compared with the previously integrated version, GnuTLS 1.6.3, the new version adds following features: * Support for external RSA/DSA signing for TLS client authentication. This allows you to secure the private key better, for example by using privilege-separation techniques between the private key and the network client/server. * Support for signing X.509 certificates using RSA with SHA- 256/384/512. * Support for X.509 Proxy Certificates (RFC 3820) * Support for Supplemental handshakes messages (RFC 4680). * Support for TLS authorization extension (draft-housley-tls-authz- extns-07). * Many bugfixes and minor improvements. * SRP support aligned with newly published RFC 5054. Note: GnuTLS was imported by Evolution at the earliest and there's no seperate ARC material was provided at that time. 3.2. Interfaces: Exported Interfaces Interface Classification Comments --------------- -------------- ----------------------- SUNWgnutls Uncommitted Package name (unchanged) SUNWgnutls-devel Uncommitted Package name (unchanged) /usr/lib/libgnutls.so.26 Volatile C library (changed) /usr/lib/libgnutlsxx.so.26 Volatile C++ library (changed) /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnutls.pc Volatile (unchanged) /usr/share/aclocal/libgnutls.m4 Volatile (unchanged) /usr/include/gnutls/gnutls.h Volatile (unchanged) /usr/include/gnutls/gnutlsxx.h Volatile (unchanged) /usr/include/gnutls/pkcs12.h Volatile (unchanged) /usr/include/gnutls/compat.h Volatile (unchanged) Imported Interfaces Interface Classification Comments --------------- --------------- ----------------------- /usr/lib/libgcrypt.so.11 Volatile Removed Interfaces Interface Classification Comments --------------- --------------- ----------------------- /usr/lib/libgnutls-extra.so.13.3.0 Volatile /usr/lib/libgnutls-openssl.so.13.3.0 Volatile /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnutls-extra.pc Volatile /usr/include/gnutls/extra.h Volatile /usr/include/gnutls/openssl.h Volatile /usr/share/aclocal/libgnutls-extra.m4 Volatile Note: The "extra" GnuTLS libraries -- which contains OpenPGP and TLS/IA support, LZO compression, the OpenSSL compatibility library -- and the self tests and command line tools are distributed under the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (or later), therefore, we remove them. 3.3. Packaging & Delivery: SUNWgnutls(base package) - base package for binaries SUNWgnutls-devel (development package) - develoment package for header and documents 3.4. Dependencies: libgnutls depends on libgcrypt, zlib. 3.5 References Sun Evolution LSARC/2003/298/ 4. Resources and Schedule: 4.1. Product Approval Committee requested information: 4.1.1. Consolidation Name: Desktop Cteam/GNOME 4.1.2. Contributing OpCo/BU/Division Name: Desktop Solutions 4.1.3. Type of PAC Review and Approval expected: FastTrack 5. References Project website: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnutls/ 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: Desktop 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Tue May 27 07:41:02 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4REf2xR016338 for ; Tue, 27 May 2008 07:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4REf08U025291 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 27 May 2008 15:41:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1J00F017GCO900@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 27 May 2008 07:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1J00I8W7GBS420@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 27 May 2008 07:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m4REewSO010454; Tue, 27 May 2008 10:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m4REewGX010451; Tue, 27 May 2008 10:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:40:58 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: Shi-Ying Irene Huang Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1284 Shi-Ying Irene Huang writes: > This fast-track increments the version of GnuTLS in Solaris > from 1.6.3 to 2.2.4. What I can't quite tell from this document is whether applications compiled against 1.6.3 will work with 2.2.4. Are there incompatible changes being made? If so, then what is the impact of those changes? What depends on them and how will they coordinate? What breaks? > Note: > The "extra" GnuTLS libraries -- which contains OpenPGP and TLS/IA > support, LZO compression, the OpenSSL compatibility library -- > and the self tests and command line tools are distributed under > the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (or later), therefore, > we remove them. Yikes. Subordinating system architecture and open source compatibility to legal review seems like a long-term mistake. Is anyone looking at this problem? Or will Open Solaris (despite the best efforts of the Indiana team and the ARC "gang of four") just drift away from Linux as more things become GPLv3? -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Jeff.Cai@sun.com Wed May 28 00:39:00 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4S7d0vn021093 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 00:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4S7cwtO060377 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 01:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1K00D0BIKZF500@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 00:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1K00BTBIKY5EC0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 00:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4S7dHTm019388 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:39:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K1K00201I596500@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Jeff.Cai@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 15:37:33 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.217.199] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1K009YDIIK8AFV@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 15:37:33 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 15:36:50 +0800 From: Jeff Cai Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Jeff.Cai@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: Shi-Ying Irene Huang , lsarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 3682 On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 10:40 -0400, James Carlson wrote: > Shi-Ying Irene Huang writes: > > This fast-track increments the version of GnuTLS in Solaris > > from 1.6.3 to 2.2.4. > > What I can't quite tell from this document is whether applications > compiled against 1.6.3 will work with 2.2.4. > > Are there incompatible changes being made? If so, then what is the > impact of those changes? What depends on them and how will they > coordinate? To adapt to changes in the TLS extension specifications for SRP, the GnuTLS API had to be modified. This means breaking the API and ABI backwards compatibility. Generally, most applications does not need to be modified. Just re-compile them against the latest GnuTLS release, and it should work fine. Applications that use the SRP features needs to be modified. Below is a list of the modified APIs and discussion of what the minimal things you need to modify in your application to make it work with GnuTLS 2.2.4. Note that GnuTLS 2.2.4 also introduces new APIs -- such as gnutls_set_priority() that is superior to gnutls_set_default_priority() -- that you may want to start using. However, using those new APIs is not required to use GnuTLS 2.2.4 since the old functions are still supported. > What breaks? XML related changes ------------------- The function `gnutls_x509_crt_to_xml' has been removed. It has been deprecated and only returned an error code since GnuTLS version 1.2.11. TLS Authorization related changes --------------------------------- Everything related to TLS authorizations have been removed, they were only stub functions that returned an error code: GNUTLS_SUPPLEMENTAL_AUTHZ_DATA gnutls_authz_data_format_type_t gnutls_authz_recv_callback_func gnutls_authz_send_callback_func gnutls_authz_enable gnutls_authz_send_x509_attr_cert gnutls_authz_send_saml_assertion gnutls_authz_send_x509_attr_cert_url gnutls_authz_send_saml_assertion_url SRP related changes ------------------- The callback gnutls_srp_client_credentials_function has a new prototype, and its semantic has changed. You need to rewrite the callback, see the updated function documentation and SRP example code (doc/examples/ex-client-srp.c and doc/examples/ex-serv-srp.c) for more information. The alert codes GNUTLS_A_MISSING_SRP_USERNAME and GNUTLS_A_UNKNOWN_SRP_USERNAME are no longer used by the SRP specification, instead the GNUTLS_A_UNKNOWN_PSK_IDENTITY alert is used. There are #define's to map the old names to the new. You may run into problems if you have a switch-case with cases for both SRP alerts, since they are now mapped to the same value. The solution is to drop the SRP alerts from such switch cases, as they are now deprecated in favor of GNUTLS_A_UNKNOWN_PSK_IDENTITY. > > Note: > > The "extra" GnuTLS libraries -- which contains OpenPGP and TLS/IA > > support, LZO compression, the OpenSSL compatibility library -- > > and the self tests and command line tools are distributed under > > the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (or later), therefore, > > we remove them. > > Yikes. Subordinating system architecture and open source > compatibility to legal review seems like a long-term mistake. > > Is anyone looking at this problem? Or will Open Solaris (despite the > best efforts of the Indiana team and the ARC "gang of four") just > drift away from Linux as more things become GPLv3? > Sun's legal people tole me that "Sun prefers not to use GPL v3, Sun prefers to use GPL v2". Once legal people allow us to ship libraries or applications in GPL v3, we will enable the "extra" libraries. Jeff From Joerg.Barfurth@Sun.COM Wed May 28 01:08:57 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4S88u2N022182 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 01:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4S88tYE027501 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 16:08:55 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1K00G01JYUQT00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 01:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1K00GAAJYT1T10@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 01:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4S88q3Z005186 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 08:08:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K1K00601IJJAX00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Joerg.Barfurth@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 09:08:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from [10.16.46.62] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1K008Q9JYP4ID0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:08:49 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:08:59 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Barfurth?= Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Joerg.Barfurth@Sun.COM To: James Carlson Cc: Shi-Ying Irene Huang , lsarc-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystems GmbH MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 2681 James Carlson schrieb: >> Note: >> The "extra" GnuTLS libraries -- which contains OpenPGP and TLS/IA >> support, LZO compression, the OpenSSL compatibility library -- >> and the self tests and command line tools are distributed under >> the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (or later), therefore, >> we remove them. > > Yikes. Subordinating system architecture and open source > compatibility to legal review seems like a long-term mistake. > I think use of the GPL for libraries is a special case here, as would be use of any similarly 'viral' license, which places requirements on licensing of derived products [*]. If OpenSolaris exports an interface under such a license, it can be used by ISVs[**] only if they are willing to license their own software as prescribed. This means that such an interface would not be suitable as the only public interface to a piece of OpenSolaris functionality or as the replacement for an existing, generally usable interface. More generally it remains to be discussed if such interfaces should be offered as part of 'core' OpenSolaris interfaces - unless the community agrees upon a goal to incent third party software developers to adopt a particular license for their OpenSolaris based software by providing interfaces with such restrictions. This consideration makes 'viral' licensing an architectural concern. [*] Disclaimer: IANAL, but afaict that is a core feature of GPL in certain uses. Ask your lawyer, if you need actual legal advice on software licenses. [**] Or OpenSolaris developers for that matter... > Is anyone looking at this problem? Or will Open Solaris (despite the > best efforts of the Indiana team and the ARC "gang of four") just > drift away from Linux as more things become GPLv3? > Maybe we need a separate 'GPL licensed libraries and plugins' package repository outside the 'core OpenSolaris' one, just as much as we appear to need 'closed source bits and pieces' or 'other less well integrated software' repositories. In all cases the core architecture should be defined (IMHO) without reliance on any of these extra pieces of software. How much architectural effort should be spends on these extras appears to be an open issue. AFAICT use of GPLv3 in general is a different issue. IIRC Sun has already released sofware under that license, so it shouldn't be a problem per se. - Jrg -- Joerg Barfurth Software Engineer mailto:joerg.barfurth@sun.com Desktop Technology Thin Client Software http://www.sun.com/software/sunray/ Sun Microsystems GmbH http://www.sun.com/software/javadesktopsystem/ From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Wed May 28 02:27:46 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4S9RkNk024505 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 02:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4S9Rh0Z000649; Wed, 28 May 2008 02:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1K00B0TNM6ME00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 02:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1K00MI9NM4EGE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 02:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4S9PxqL024673; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:27:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms24es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([150.143.232.70] [150.143.232.70]) by relay23i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-28562; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:27:39 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay21.sun.com (relay21.sun.com [192.12.251.24]) by mms24es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-754489; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:27:39 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgwb1.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.87.18] [153.96.87.18]) by relay21i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-785415; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:27:38 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgwb1.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgwb1.fraunhofer.de[host mailgwb1] (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m4S9IQqx018717; Wed, 28 May 2008 11:18:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgwb1.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m4S9IQ6l018705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 May 2008 11:18:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m4S9IQXw011217; Wed, 28 May 2008 11:18:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 28 May 2008 11:18:26 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:18:25 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> To: Joerg.Barfurth@sun.com, James.D.Carlson@sun.com Cc: sh162551@sac.sfbay.sun.com, lsarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <483d2361.Q/SaSa/pLH0Ppi0P%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.283sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 May 2008 09:18:26.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[C900BC50:01C8C0A3] Status: RO Content-Length: 1388 Jrg Barfurth wrote: > Maybe we need a separate 'GPL licensed libraries and plugins' package > repository outside the 'core OpenSolaris' one, just as much as we appear > to need 'closed source bits and pieces' or 'other less well integrated > software' repositories. In all cases the core architecture should be > defined (IMHO) without reliance on any of these extra pieces of > software. How much architectural effort should be spends on these extras > appears to be an open issue. If the libs are small and used by few programs only, they may be linked staically to avoid pushing other people into license violations. You already mentioned that GPL libs should not export interfaces that are of importance for OpenSolaris users. If there are more users of such libs, there could be a directory /usr/lib/encumbered/ to hold them as dynamic versions ;-) > AFAICT use of GPLv3 in general is a different issue. IIRC Sun has > already released sofware under that license, so it shouldn't be a > problem per se. Could you point me to that SW please? Jrg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jrg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Wed May 28 06:12:30 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SDCUGZ029396 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 06:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SDCSuM029992; Wed, 28 May 2008 06:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1K00L03Y0SZO00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 06:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1K00C1EY0RH590@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 06:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m4SDCQDS015306; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m4SDCQ46015303; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:12:26 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Barfurth?= Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id m4SDCUGZ029396 Status: RO Content-Length: 2632 Jrg Barfurth writes: > James Carlson schrieb: > >> Note: > >> The "extra" GnuTLS libraries -- which contains OpenPGP and TLS/IA > >> support, LZO compression, the OpenSSL compatibility library -- > >> and the self tests and command line tools are distributed under > >> the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (or later), therefore, > >> we remove them. > > > > Yikes. Subordinating system architecture and open source > > compatibility to legal review seems like a long-term mistake. > > > > I think use of the GPL for libraries is a special case here, as would be > use of any similarly 'viral' license, which places requirements on I never mentioned any "viral" problems, and that's not the problem I have with this case. The problem I have is that a couple of random components -- ones that are in Solaris today -- were removed from this project because the upgraded license is now considered to be unacceptable. In effect, we're using legalese to determine system architecture, and I think that's a problem. Perhaps there's a reason why lopping off these particular limbs won't hurt anyone, but as a general principle, we're headed for trouble if we determine system architecture on the basis of what passes the lawyers. A better solution is to decouple these things: do the architectural review on the *whole* case, ignoring the legal questions, and then allow the project team to go off and do the legal review as a dependency for shipping. Otherwise, this looks like a preemptive strike. > > Is anyone looking at this problem? Or will Open Solaris (despite the > > best efforts of the Indiana team and the ARC "gang of four") just > > drift away from Linux as more things become GPLv3? > > > > Maybe we need a separate 'GPL licensed libraries and plugins' package > repository outside the 'core OpenSolaris' one, just as much as we appear > to need 'closed source bits and pieces' or 'other less well integrated That's still not the problem I'm citing. We have a high level directive from Tim Marsland saying that everything must be "familiar," which (as far as I understand it) means "the same as on some currently popular distribution Linux; probably Ubuntu." By hacking away components from what we deliver -- particularly doing so on the basis of a fear of GPLv3 -- we're failing to comply with that directive. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Wed May 28 06:17:49 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SDHnxS029491 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 06:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SDHiuv024697; Wed, 28 May 2008 14:17:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1K00405Y9JKW00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 28 May 2008 06:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1K00NYNY9I2O30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 28 May 2008 06:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m4SDHcBf015319; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m4SDHcdS015316; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:17:38 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> To: Jeff Cai Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=unknown X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id m4SDHnxS029491 Status: RO Content-Length: 1850 Jeff Cai writes: > On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 10:40 -0400, James Carlson wrote: > > Are there incompatible changes being made? If so, then what is the > > impact of those changes? What depends on them and how will they > > coordinate? > > To adapt to changes in the TLS extension specifications for SRP, the > GnuTLS API had to be modified. This means breaking the > API and ABI backwards compatibility. > > Generally, most applications does not need to be modified. Just > re-compile them against the latest GnuTLS release, and it should work > fine. "Just re-compile" means that packaged software that depends on this library will break. Is a re-compile necessary? (If so, then it sounds like someone on that GNU project doesn't quite get how to build reliable libraries ...) So how do we handle this? What existing packaged software uses this library? Do we not care whether it breaks, or are we doing something to make sure it is all updated at the same time this library is updated? > > Is anyone looking at this problem? Or will Open Solaris (despite the > > best efforts of the Indiana team and the ARC "gang of four") just > > drift away from Linux as more things become GPLv3? > > > Sun's legal people tole me that "Sun prefers not to use GPL v3, Sun prefers to > use GPL v2". Once legal people allow us to ship libraries or applications in GPL v3, > we will enable the "extra" libraries. Just to clarify: in this case, "prefer" means that we ship something under the "GnuTLS" name on Solaris that is different from the same-named thing on Linux and lacks the capabilities available there. Correct? -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Wed May 28 07:04:03 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SE427M003840 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SE3h5l018463 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 15:04:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L00I150EN7700@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 08:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00EH70EML330@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 08:03:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4SE3wI5023233 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K1L00F010DH4600@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.6.102.118] by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1L00HCB0ELEWG0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:03:57 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Barfurth?= Cc: James Carlson , Shi-Ying Irene Huang , lsarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <483D664D.1060601@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 513 Jrg Barfurth wrote: > AFAICT use of GPLv3 in general is a different issue. IIRC Sun has > already released sofware under that license, so it shouldn't be a > problem per se. I've asked about that before - suffice it to say that issuing your own software under GPLv3 is a different kettle of fish than accepting GPLv3 software from others. Sun is ready to do the first, but not yet the second. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Joerg.Barfurth@sun.com Wed May 28 07:11:48 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SEBm5U004316 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SEBlAj029567 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L00A0V0RO2A00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00N670RK2Q70@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4SEBiQ0000762 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 14:11:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K1K00801ZTUSY00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Joerg.Barfurth@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 15:11:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from [10.16.65.109] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1L003MR0QWFS40@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 15:11:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 16:11:30 +0200 From: Joerg Barfurth Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Joerg.Barfurth@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <483D6812.90107@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystem - Desktop MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 3355 James Carlson schrieb: >> I think use of the GPL for libraries is a special case here, as would be >> use of any similarly 'viral' license, which places requirements on > > I never mentioned any "viral" problems, and that's not the problem I > have with this case. > > The problem I have is that a couple of random components -- ones that > are in Solaris today -- were removed from this project because the > upgraded license is now considered to be unacceptable. > If the issue is GPLv2 vs. GPLv3, then I misread the problem and agree to your assessment. > In effect, we're using legalese to determine system architecture, and > I think that's a problem. Perhaps there's a reason why lopping off > these particular limbs won't hurt anyone, That should in any case be reviewed on its own merits. > but as a general principle, > we're headed for trouble if we determine system architecture on the > basis of what passes the lawyers. > My argument was that GPLness of the license for a component does have an architectural impact, as it excludes some potential users of an interface. And upgrading a piece of software with stable interfaces may be architecturally invalid, if it comes with a license change, for example from LGPL to GPL. If the prior version of those libraries was GPLv2, then my argument does not concern this case. Sorry, I noticed this potential ambiguity only after submitting the post, when it was too late to do more research. > A better solution is to decouple these things: do the architectural > review on the *whole* case, ignoring the legal questions, and then > allow the project team to go off and do the legal review as a > dependency for shipping. > As I said, GPLness (or 'viral'ness) IMHO does have an architectural aspect, which goes beyond legal organizational policies. > We have a high level directive from Tim Marsland saying that > everything must be "familiar," which (as far as I understand it) means > "the same as on some currently popular distribution Linux; probably > Ubuntu." > What various Linux distros ship - and what they ship as part of the default install vs. through opt-in repositories varies depending on conceptual, legal or political differences. I think that is an area where OpenSolaris can (and must) define its own policies. > By hacking away components from what we deliver -- particularly doing > so on the basis of a fear of GPLv3 -- we're failing to comply with > that directive. > Well, I'm not sure we need an openssl shim for one piece of crypto, if we have the real openssl available. Similar arguments may apply to some of the other pieces left out in this case. I agree that issues with the license should not preempt architectural consideration. OTOH project teams that don't want to fight certain legal battles (or lose them) may still be forced to submit something that was shaped by legal considerations. In the present case this may mean staying with an outdated version of the entire package or switching to an up to date subset. Which of those will comply better with the directive you mention? - Jrg -- Joerg Barfurth Software Engineer mailto:joerg.barfurth@sun.com Desktop Technology Thin Client Software http://www.sun.com/software/sunray/ Sun Microsystems GmbH http://www.sun.com/software/javadesktopsystem/ From John.Plocher@sun.com Wed May 28 07:14:43 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SEEgse004536 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SEEX9E015330 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 22:14:41 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L0012N0WGBJ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00CMY0WFGYC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4SEEd5V022019 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K1L00D010VRMX00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1L00J310W5V6E0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 07:14:28 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Barfurth?= , lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <483D68C4.5020109@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) Status: RO Content-Length: 835 James Carlson wrote: > A better solution is to decouple these things: do the architectural > review on the *whole* case, ignoring the legal questions, and then > allow the project team to go off and do the legal review as a > dependency for shipping. > > Otherwise, this looks like a preemptive strike. Beating this dead horse even more, the "can't/shouldn't do GPLV3" is only a Sun-driven-distro issue; it is not necessarily an issue for other distros like Nexenta, Schillix (or ...). This says to me that, for OpenSolaris, the whole case should be reviewed and integrated, with the GPLV3 stuff tagged in such a way that Sun's distro makers can special case it (i.e., remove it...) Given the political posturing going on over in LinuxLand, it is unclear whether or not Linux distros will include GPLV3 stuff either... -John From Jeff.Cai@sun.com Wed May 28 07:17:16 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SEHGi3004730 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SEHD6i023672 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 07:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L0010310RFC00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00C6W10QGXD0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 07:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4SEI2Yl015890 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 14:18:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K1L00B010SD1G00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Jeff.Cai@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 22:16:56 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([123.121.222.215]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1L004HN101PGCE@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 22:16:56 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:17:05 +0800 From: Jeff Cai Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Jeff.Cai@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 2055 在 2008-05-28三的 09:17 -0400，James Carlson写道： > Jeff Cai writes: > > On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 10:40 -0400, James Carlson wrote: > > > Are there incompatible changes being made? If so, then what is the > > > impact of those changes? What depends on them and how will they > > > coordinate? > > > > To adapt to changes in the TLS extension specifications for SRP, the > > GnuTLS API had to be modified. This means breaking the > > API and ABI backwards compatibility. > > > > Generally, most applications does not need to be modified. Just > > re-compile them against the latest GnuTLS release, and it should work > > fine. > > "Just re-compile" means that packaged software that depends on this > library will break. Is a re-compile necessary? (If so, then it > sounds like someone on that GNU project doesn't quite get how to build > reliable libraries ...) Yes. a re-compile is needed. > > So how do we handle this? What existing packaged software uses this > library? Do we not care whether it breaks, or are we doing something > to make sure it is all updated at the same time this library is > updated? Currently, Evolution, Pidgin, Ekiga and Vino depend on it. These four applications are all from JDS consolidation, therefore, they will be re-built at the same time with GnuTLS. > > > > Is anyone looking at this problem? Or will Open Solaris (despite the > > > best efforts of the Indiana team and the ARC "gang of four") just > > > drift away from Linux as more things become GPLv3? > > > > > Sun's legal people tole me that "Sun prefers not to use GPL v3, Sun prefers to > > use GPL v2". Once legal people allow us to ship libraries or applications in GPL v3, > > we will enable the "extra" libraries. > > Just to clarify: in this case, "prefer" means that we ship something > under the "GnuTLS" name on Solaris that is different from the > same-named thing on Linux and lacks the capabilities available there. > Correct? Yes. We only ship the core library, which is the most important part of GnuTLS. Jeff > From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Wed May 28 08:07:54 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SF7rwB027371 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 08:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SF7gEn022499; Wed, 28 May 2008 16:07:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L00F053CVG100@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 28 May 2008 08:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00NEH3CU2QC0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 28 May 2008 08:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m4SF7fJL015783; Wed, 28 May 2008 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m4SF7fEh015780; Wed, 28 May 2008 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:07:41 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <483D6812.90107@sun.com> To: Joerg Barfurth , Jeff Cai Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D6812.90107@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id m4SF7rwB027371 Status: RO Content-Length: 2446 Joerg Barfurth writes: > James Carlson schrieb: > > The problem I have is that a couple of random components -- ones that > > are in Solaris today -- were removed from this project because the > > upgraded license is now considered to be unacceptable. > > > > If the issue is GPLv2 vs. GPLv3, then I misread the problem and agree to > your assessment. Yes, that's the issue. > OTOH project teams that don't want to fight certain legal battles (or > lose them) may still be forced to submit something that was shaped by > legal considerations. In the present case this may mean staying with an > outdated version of the entire package or switching to an up to date > subset. Which of those will comply better with the directive you mention? I suspect the answer is "neither." Both answers are wrong, if we're trying to adhere to that directive. Jeff Cai writes: > 在 2008-05-28(Ig(B 09:17 -0400$,3rl(BJames Carlson写道$,3rz(B > > So how do we handle this? What existing packaged software uses this > > library? Do we not care whether it breaks, or are we doing something > > to make sure it is all updated at the same time this library is > > updated? > Currently, $,3r_(BEvolution, Pidgin, Ekiga and Vino depend on it. These four > applications are all from JDS consolidation, therefore, they will be > re-built at the same time with GnuTLS. So long as we're _certain_ there are no others, and that these will all be updated at once, I'm ok with that answer. > > Just to clarify: in this case, "prefer" means that we ship something > > under the "GnuTLS" name on Solaris that is different from the > > same-named thing on Linux and lacks the capabilities available there. > > Correct? > Yes. We only ship the core library, which is the most important part of > GnuTLS. We're on a slippery slope when we start determining what parts are "important" and what parts are not, particularly when those determinations aren't made on the basis of anything technical about Solaris itself, but rather on Sun's local legal fears and doubts. As a Solaris matter, that's suspicious architecture. As an OpenSolaris matter, where Sun's legal judgement over GPLv3 is moot, it's a hard-to-defend answer. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Jeff.Cai@sun.com Wed May 28 08:11:36 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SFBaC2029690 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 08:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SFBUY0024174 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 16:11:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L00M1J3J8VX00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 09:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00EYW3J7LB70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 09:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4SFBomw010464 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 15:11:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K1L00D013GN3N00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Jeff.Cai@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 28 May 2008 23:10:04 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([123.121.222.215]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1L009R63GL8A0X@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 23:10:04 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 23:11:22 +0800 From: Jeff Cai Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Jeff.Cai@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg?= Barfurth , lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <1211987482.6470.31.camel@caiqm-laptop> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 2988 在 2008-05-28三的 09:12 -0400，James Carlson写道： > Jörg Barfurth writes: > > James Carlson schrieb: > > >> Note: > > >> The "extra" GnuTLS libraries -- which contains OpenPGP and TLS/IA > > >> support, LZO compression, the OpenSSL compatibility library -- > > >> and the self tests and command line tools are distributed under > > >> the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (or later), therefore, > > >> we remove them. > > > > > > Yikes. Subordinating system architecture and open source > > > compatibility to legal review seems like a long-term mistake. > > > > > > > I think use of the GPL for libraries is a special case here, as would be > > use of any similarly 'viral' license, which places requirements on > > I never mentioned any "viral" problems, and that's not the problem I > have with this case. > > The problem I have is that a couple of random components -- ones that > are in Solaris today -- were removed from this project because the > upgraded license is now considered to be unacceptable. > > In effect, we're using legalese to determine system architecture, and > I think that's a problem. Perhaps there's a reason why lopping off > these particular limbs won't hurt anyone, but as a general principle, > we're headed for trouble if we determine system architecture on the > basis of what passes the lawyers. > > A better solution is to decouple these things: do the architectural > review on the *whole* case, ignoring the legal questions, and then > allow the project team to go off and do the legal review as a > dependency for shipping. > > Otherwise, this looks like a preemptive strike. James In this case, the extra library can be fully seperated from the core library if we look at it from the functionality perspective. Currently there's no project depending on the extra library. In addition, without the extra library, we can still understand the core library very well. So for this case, we will have the ARC review for the 'extra' library until the legal allows us to ship it. Jeff > > > > Is anyone looking at this problem? Or will Open Solaris (despite the > > > best efforts of the Indiana team and the ARC "gang of four") just > > > drift away from Linux as more things become GPLv3? > > > > > > > Maybe we need a separate 'GPL licensed libraries and plugins' package > > repository outside the 'core OpenSolaris' one, just as much as we appear > > to need 'closed source bits and pieces' or 'other less well integrated > > That's still not the problem I'm citing. > > We have a high level directive from Tim Marsland saying that > everything must be "familiar," which (as far as I understand it) means > "the same as on some currently popular distribution Linux; probably > Ubuntu." > > By hacking away components from what we deliver -- particularly doing > so on the basis of a fear of GPLv3 -- we're failing to comply with > that directive. > From Jeff.Cai@sun.com Wed May 28 08:44:22 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SFiLfs003406 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 08:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SFiHMK009768 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 16:44:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L0010T51SX000@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 28 May 2008 09:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00EH351OL4C0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 28 May 2008 09:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4SFj0Yv017555 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 15:45:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K1L00L014YG0X00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Jeff.Cai@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 28 May 2008 23:43:55 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([123.121.222.215]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1L007UG512UHC7@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 23:43:54 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 23:44:06 +0800 From: Jeff Cai Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Jeff.Cai@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: Joerg Barfurth , lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D6812.90107@sun.com> <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 1040 > > So long as we're _certain_ there are no others, and that these will > all be updated at once, I'm ok with that answer. > > > > Just to clarify: in this case, "prefer" means that we ship something > > > under the "GnuTLS" name on Solaris that is different from the > > > same-named thing on Linux and lacks the capabilities available there. > > > Correct? > > Yes. We only ship the core library, which is the most important part of > > GnuTLS. > > We're on a slippery slope when we start determining what parts are > "important" and what parts are not, particularly when those > determinations aren't made on the basis of anything technical about > Solaris itself, but rather on Sun's local legal fears and doubts. James I'd rather say 'important' is determined on the basis of technical things since the implementation of TLS is in the core library. :) Jeff > > As a Solaris matter, that's suspicious architecture. As an > OpenSolaris matter, where Sun's legal judgement over GPLv3 is moot, > it's a hard-to-defend answer. > From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Wed May 28 08:58:04 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SFw3Hs004425 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 08:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SFvxX2016863; Wed, 28 May 2008 16:58:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L0020F5OMUS00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L00EME5OMLAA0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 09:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m4SFvveW004011; Wed, 28 May 2008 11:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id m4SFvvDV004008; Wed, 28 May 2008 11:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:57:56 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> To: Jeff Cai Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <18493.33028.968811.666470@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D6812.90107@sun.com> <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> Status: RO Content-Length: 1291 Jeff Cai writes: > > > > Just to clarify: in this case, "prefer" means that we ship something > > > > under the "GnuTLS" name on Solaris that is different from the > > > > same-named thing on Linux and lacks the capabilities available there. > > > > Correct? > > > Yes. We only ship the core library, which is the most important part of > > > GnuTLS. > > > > We're on a slippery slope when we start determining what parts are > > "important" and what parts are not, particularly when those > > determinations aren't made on the basis of anything technical about > > Solaris itself, but rather on Sun's local legal fears and doubts. > > James > > I'd rather say 'important' is determined on the basis of technical > things since the implementation of TLS is in the core library. :) I have no disagreement with the "core" portion being declared important. I'm a bit less certain that the rest is necessarily "unimportant," particularly since (a) we used to ship this part and (b) the main reason this project is removing it seems to be to unruffle legal feathers. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Wed May 28 10:17:01 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4SHH03G010749 for ; Wed, 28 May 2008 10:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4SHGnnW029227; Thu, 29 May 2008 01:16:57 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1L0070T9C6UR00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 10:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1L005ZZ9C6QU30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 28 May 2008 10:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m4SHGrXJ002104; Wed, 28 May 2008 12:16:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m4SHGrGF002103; Wed, 28 May 2008 12:16:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:16:53 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> To: Jeff Cai Cc: James Carlson , lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <20080528171652.GY1039@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D6812.90107@sun.com> <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 967 On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:44:06PM +0800, Jeff Cai wrote: > I'd rather say 'important' is determined on the basis of technical > things since the implementation of TLS is in the core library. :) "Important" is in the eye of the beholder. If there are popular apps out there that need the libraries you're removing/not shipping, then those libraries are "important." Rather than have a popularity contest, it might be better to resolve the legal issue. And as for architecture, I agree with the comments that the ARC could review cases for including GPLv3 items that are then not included with any Sun-based distro of OpenSolaris (nor Solaris Nevada, nor any Solaris 10 updates, ...). That may seem like hair splitting, but the i-team could do the integration and packaging work for all of GnuTLS and leave the GPLv3'ed components in packages that are integrated into the WOS nor published to the IPS repository until the the legal issues are resolved. Nico -- From Jeff.Cai@sun.com Thu May 29 00:57:58 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m4T7vvYZ018520 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 00:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m4T7vrXQ020679 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 29 May 2008 15:57:56 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1M00901E4I0Y00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 29 May 2008 01:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1M00MZ0E4GWIA0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 29 May 2008 01:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m4T7wCZC024188 for ; Thu, 29 May 2008 07:58:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K1M00201E2L6D00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Jeff.Cai@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 29 May 2008 15:57:35 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.217.199] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1M0042EE3XPGUE@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 29 May 2008 15:57:34 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:55:42 +0800 From: Jeff Cai Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <20080528171652.GY1039@Sun.COM> Sender: Jeff.Cai@sun.com To: Nicolas Williams Cc: James Carlson , lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <1212047742.423161.19.camel@par> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D6812.90107@sun.com> <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> <20080528171652.GY1039@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 4592 On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 12:16 -0500, Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:44:06PM +0800, Jeff Cai wrote: > > I'd rather say 'important' is determined on the basis of technical > > things since the implementation of TLS is in the core library. :) > > "Important" is in the eye of the beholder. If there are popular apps > out there that need the libraries you're removing/not shipping, then > those libraries are "important." > > Rather than have a popularity contest, it might be better to resolve the > legal issue. And as for architecture, I agree with the comments that > the ARC could review cases for including GPLv3 items that are then not > included with any Sun-based distro of OpenSolaris (nor Solaris Nevada, > nor any Solaris 10 updates, ...). That may seem like hair splitting, > but the i-team could do the integration and packaging work for all of > GnuTLS and leave the GPLv3'ed components in packages that are integrated > into the WOS nor published to the IPS repository until the the legal > issues are resolved. Here, I highlight the extra library which will not be shipped due to the GPL V3 license restriction. The extra library contains OpenPGP ,TLS/IA support, LZO compression and the OpenSSL compatibility library. Compared with 1.6.3, There are some changes in OpenPGP: The function `gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyserver' have been removed. There is no replacement functionality inside GnuTLS. All functions, types, and error codes related to OpenPGP trustdb format have been removed. The trustdb format is a non-standard GnuPG-specific format, and we recommend you to use key rings instead. The following have been removed: gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_trustdb gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_init gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_deinit gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_import gnutls_openpgp_key_verify_trustdb gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_t GNUTLS_E_OPENPGP_TRUSTDB_VERSION_UNSUPPORTED The following functions has an added parameter of the (new) type `gnutls_openpgp_crt_fmt_t'. The type specify the format of the data (binary or base64). The functions are: gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_key_file gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_key_mem gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyring_mem gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyring_file To improve terminology and align with the X.509 interface, some functions have been renamed. Compatibility mappings exists. The old and new names of the affected functions and types are: Old name New name gnutls_openpgp_key_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_t gnutls_openpgp_key_fmt_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_fmt_t gnutls_openpgp_key_status_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_status_t GNUTLS_OPENPGP_KEY GNUTLS_OPENPGP_CERT GNUTLS_OPENPGP_KEY_FINGERPRINT GNUTLS_OPENPGP_CERT_FINGERPRINT gnutls_openpgp_key_init gnutls_openpgp_crt_init gnutls_openpgp_key_deinit gnutls_openpgp_crt_deinit gnutls_openpgp_key_import gnutls_openpgp_crt_import gnutls_openpgp_key_export gnutls_openpgp_crt_export gnutls_openpgp_key_get_key_usage gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_key_usage gnutls_openpgp_key_get_fingerprint gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_fingerprint gnutls_openpgp_key_get_pk_algorithm gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_pk_algorithm gnutls_openpgp_key_get_name gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_name gnutls_openpgp_key_get_version gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_version gnutls_openpgp_key_get_creation_time gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_creation_time gnutls_openpgp_key_get_expiration_time gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_expiration_time gnutls_openpgp_key_get_id gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_id gnutls_openpgp_key_check_hostname gnutls_openpgp_crt_check_hostname gnutls_openpgp_send_key gnutls_openpgp_send_cert Interfaces related to the extra library Exported Interfaces: Interface Classification --------------- --------------- /usr/lib/libgnutls-extra.so.13.3.0 Volatile /usr/lib/libgnutls-openssl.so.13.3.0 Volatile /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnutls-extra.pc Volatile /usr/include/gnutls/extra.h Volatile /usr/include/gnutls/openssl.h Volatile /usr/share/aclocal/libgnutls-extra.m4 Volatile Imported Interface: Interface Classification --------------- --------------- /usr/lib/libgcrypt.so.11 Volatile Jeff > > Nico From Irene.Huang@sun.com Sun Jun 1 22:59:06 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m525x6YI024205 for ; Sun, 1 Jun 2008 22:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m525x2Oc007414 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1T00G0LNAHCR00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1T00MIKNAEGTB0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m525xpbN025901 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 05:59:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K1T00H01N79IA00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Irene.Huang@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:57:31 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.217.138] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1T009FVN7U8FFD@mail-apac.sun.com>; Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:57:31 +0800 (SGT) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:59:24 +0800 From: Irene Huang Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <1212047742.423161.19.camel@par> Sender: Irene.Huang@sun.com To: Jeff Cai Cc: Nicolas Williams , James Carlson , lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <1212386364.3368.66.camel@goalie> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D6812.90107@sun.com> <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> <20080528171652.GY1039@Sun.COM> <1212047742.423161.19.camel@par> Status: RO Content-Length: 5000 Hi, all If there's any issues with this case, please reply with an email. If not, I am closing this case tomorrow as approved. Thanks --Irene On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 15:55 +0800, Jeff Cai wrote: > On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 12:16 -0500, Nicolas Williams wrote: > > On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:44:06PM +0800, Jeff Cai wrote: > > > I'd rather say 'important' is determined on the basis of technical > > > things since the implementation of TLS is in the core library. :) > > > > "Important" is in the eye of the beholder. If there are popular apps > > out there that need the libraries you're removing/not shipping, then > > those libraries are "important." > > > > Rather than have a popularity contest, it might be better to resolve the > > legal issue. And as for architecture, I agree with the comments that > > the ARC could review cases for including GPLv3 items that are then not > > included with any Sun-based distro of OpenSolaris (nor Solaris Nevada, > > nor any Solaris 10 updates, ...). That may seem like hair splitting, > > but the i-team could do the integration and packaging work for all of > > GnuTLS and leave the GPLv3'ed components in packages that are integrated > > into the WOS nor published to the IPS repository until the the legal > > issues are resolved. > > Here, I highlight the extra library which will not be shipped due to the > GPL V3 license restriction. > > The extra library contains OpenPGP ,TLS/IA support, LZO compression and > the OpenSSL compatibility library. > > Compared with 1.6.3, There are some changes in OpenPGP: > > The function `gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyserver' have been > removed. There is no replacement functionality inside GnuTLS. > > All functions, types, and error codes related to OpenPGP trustdb > format have been removed. The trustdb format is a non-standard > GnuPG-specific format, and we recommend you to use key rings instead. > The following have been removed: > > gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_trustdb > gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_init > gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_deinit > gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_import > gnutls_openpgp_key_verify_trustdb > gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_t > GNUTLS_E_OPENPGP_TRUSTDB_VERSION_UNSUPPORTED > > The following functions has an added parameter of the (new) type > `gnutls_openpgp_crt_fmt_t'. The type specify the format of the data > (binary or base64). The functions are: > gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_key_file > gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_key_mem > gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyring_mem > gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyring_file > > To improve terminology and align with the X.509 interface, some > functions have been renamed. Compatibility mappings exists. The old > and new names of the affected functions and types are: > > Old name New name > gnutls_openpgp_key_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_t > gnutls_openpgp_key_fmt_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_fmt_t > gnutls_openpgp_key_status_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_status_t > GNUTLS_OPENPGP_KEY GNUTLS_OPENPGP_CERT > GNUTLS_OPENPGP_KEY_FINGERPRINT GNUTLS_OPENPGP_CERT_FINGERPRINT > gnutls_openpgp_key_init gnutls_openpgp_crt_init > gnutls_openpgp_key_deinit gnutls_openpgp_crt_deinit > gnutls_openpgp_key_import gnutls_openpgp_crt_import > gnutls_openpgp_key_export gnutls_openpgp_crt_export > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_key_usage > gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_key_usage > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_fingerprint > gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_fingerprint > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_pk_algorithm > gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_pk_algorithm > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_name gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_name > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_version gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_version > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_creation_time > gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_creation_time > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_expiration_time > gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_expiration_time > gnutls_openpgp_key_get_id gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_id > gnutls_openpgp_key_check_hostname > gnutls_openpgp_crt_check_hostname > gnutls_openpgp_send_key gnutls_openpgp_send_cert > > Interfaces related to the extra library > > Exported Interfaces: > > Interface Classification > --------------- --------------- > /usr/lib/libgnutls-extra.so.13.3.0 Volatile > /usr/lib/libgnutls-openssl.so.13.3.0 Volatile > /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnutls-extra.pc Volatile > /usr/include/gnutls/extra.h Volatile > /usr/include/gnutls/openssl.h Volatile > /usr/share/aclocal/libgnutls-extra.m4 Volatile > > Imported Interface: > Interface Classification > --------------- --------------- > /usr/lib/libgcrypt.so.11 Volatile > > Jeff > > > > Nico > From Irene.Huang@sun.com Mon Jun 2 23:33:14 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m536XDMV013551 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m536X6Fk007798 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:33:12 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K1V0050FJJAAX00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K1V00MI9JJ96G10@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m536XxKt001769 for ; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 06:33:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K1V00301JCLMX00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Irene.Huang@Sun.COM) for lsarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT lsarc-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:31:37 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.146.215] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K1V009LAJGM8FQE@mail-apac.sun.com>; Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:31:35 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:33:05 +0800 From: Irene Huang Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <1212386364.3368.66.camel@goalie> Sender: Irene.Huang@sun.com To: Irene Huang Cc: Jeff Cai , Nicolas Williams , James Carlson , lsarc-ext@sun.com, Shi-Ying Irene Huang Message-id: <4844E5A1.5070001@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <18492.7546.614977.635389@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211960210.378138.7.camel@par> <18493.23410.178698.335322@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211984225.6470.4.camel@caiqm-laptop> <483D131B.5010503@sun.com> <18493.23098.249483.893177@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <483D6812.90107@sun.com> <18493.30013.851954.760098@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1211989447.10812.5.camel@caiqm-laptop> <20080528171652.GY1039@Sun.COM> <1212047742.423161.19.camel@par> <1212386364.3368.66.camel@goalie> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) Status: RO Content-Length: 5200 Closing this case as approved. --Irene Irene Huang wrote: > Hi, all > > If there's any issues with this case, please reply with an email. If > not, I am closing this case tomorrow as approved. > > Thanks > > --Irene > On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 15:55 +0800, Jeff Cai wrote: > >> On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 12:16 -0500, Nicolas Williams wrote: >> >>> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:44:06PM +0800, Jeff Cai wrote: >>> >>>> I'd rather say 'important' is determined on the basis of technical >>>> things since the implementation of TLS is in the core library. :) >>>> >>> "Important" is in the eye of the beholder. If there are popular apps >>> out there that need the libraries you're removing/not shipping, then >>> those libraries are "important." >>> >>> Rather than have a popularity contest, it might be better to resolve the >>> legal issue. And as for architecture, I agree with the comments that >>> the ARC could review cases for including GPLv3 items that are then not >>> included with any Sun-based distro of OpenSolaris (nor Solaris Nevada, >>> nor any Solaris 10 updates, ...). That may seem like hair splitting, >>> but the i-team could do the integration and packaging work for all of >>> GnuTLS and leave the GPLv3'ed components in packages that are integrated >>> into the WOS nor published to the IPS repository until the the legal >>> issues are resolved. >>> >> Here, I highlight the extra library which will not be shipped due to the >> GPL V3 license restriction. >> >> The extra library contains OpenPGP ,TLS/IA support, LZO compression and >> the OpenSSL compatibility library. >> >> Compared with 1.6.3, There are some changes in OpenPGP: >> >> The function `gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyserver' have been >> removed. There is no replacement functionality inside GnuTLS. >> >> All functions, types, and error codes related to OpenPGP trustdb >> format have been removed. The trustdb format is a non-standard >> GnuPG-specific format, and we recommend you to use key rings instead. >> The following have been removed: >> >> gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_trustdb >> gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_init >> gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_deinit >> gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_import >> gnutls_openpgp_key_verify_trustdb >> gnutls_openpgp_trustdb_t >> GNUTLS_E_OPENPGP_TRUSTDB_VERSION_UNSUPPORTED >> >> The following functions has an added parameter of the (new) type >> `gnutls_openpgp_crt_fmt_t'. The type specify the format of the data >> (binary or base64). The functions are: >> gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_key_file >> gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_key_mem >> gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyring_mem >> gnutls_certificate_set_openpgp_keyring_file >> >> To improve terminology and align with the X.509 interface, some >> functions have been renamed. Compatibility mappings exists. The old >> and new names of the affected functions and types are: >> >> Old name New name >> gnutls_openpgp_key_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_t >> gnutls_openpgp_key_fmt_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_fmt_t >> gnutls_openpgp_key_status_t gnutls_openpgp_crt_status_t >> GNUTLS_OPENPGP_KEY GNUTLS_OPENPGP_CERT >> GNUTLS_OPENPGP_KEY_FINGERPRINT GNUTLS_OPENPGP_CERT_FINGERPRINT >> gnutls_openpgp_key_init gnutls_openpgp_crt_init >> gnutls_openpgp_key_deinit gnutls_openpgp_crt_deinit >> gnutls_openpgp_key_import gnutls_openpgp_crt_import >> gnutls_openpgp_key_export gnutls_openpgp_crt_export >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_key_usage >> gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_key_usage >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_fingerprint >> gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_fingerprint >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_pk_algorithm >> gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_pk_algorithm >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_name gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_name >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_version gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_version >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_creation_time >> gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_creation_time >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_expiration_time >> gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_expiration_time >> gnutls_openpgp_key_get_id gnutls_openpgp_crt_get_id >> gnutls_openpgp_key_check_hostname >> gnutls_openpgp_crt_check_hostname >> gnutls_openpgp_send_key gnutls_openpgp_send_cert >> >> Interfaces related to the extra library >> >> Exported Interfaces: >> >> Interface Classification >> --------------- --------------- >> /usr/lib/libgnutls-extra.so.13.3.0 Volatile >> /usr/lib/libgnutls-openssl.so.13.3.0 Volatile >> /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnutls-extra.pc Volatile >> /usr/include/gnutls/extra.h Volatile >> /usr/include/gnutls/openssl.h Volatile >> /usr/share/aclocal/libgnutls-extra.m4 Volatile >> >> Imported Interface: >> Interface Classification >> --------------- --------------- >> /usr/lib/libgcrypt.so.11 Volatile >> >> Jeff >> >>> Nico >>> > > From Brian.Cameron@sun.com Fri May 22 11:27:51 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4MIRopV002684 for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 11:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n4MIRfYf027264 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:lsarc-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 22 May 2009 19:27:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KK2005035YBSA00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Fri, 22 May 2009 11:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KK20046N5YB9V30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Fri, 22 May 2009 11:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n4MIRlfO017416 for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 18:27:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KK200K004YLAK00@mail-amer.sun.com> for lsarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT lsarc-ext@sun.com); Fri, 22 May 2009 12:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.153.250.99] ([unknown] [129.153.250.99]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KK200JOM5Y5G050@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 22 May 2009 12:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:27:45 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: GnuTLS Update [LSARC/2008/341 FastTrack timeout 06/03/2008] In-reply-to: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@sun.com To: Shi-Ying Irene Huang Cc: lsarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A16EEA1.2090300@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200805270233.m4R2XCLj000470@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090505) Status: RO Content-Length: 6843 Note that this case has a new contract between the ON and Desktop Consolidations. Refer here: http://sac.eng/arc/LSARC/2008/341/contracts/xVM-contract.txt Thanks, Brian Shi-Ying Irene Huang wrote: > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.66 04/17/08 SMI > This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > GnuTLS Update > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Jeff Cai > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 26 May, 2008 > 4. Technical Description > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > > GnuTLS > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > > Author: Jeff Cai > Sponser: Irene Huang > > 1.3. Date of This Document: > > 05/22/2008 > > 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): > > 1.4.1. The PAC or CPT you expect to review your project: > > Solaris PAC > > 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: > > LSARC > > 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: > > Robert O'Dea > > 1.4.4. The name of your business unit: > > Software - OPG > > 1.5. Email Aliases: > 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: harry.lu@sun.com > 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: jeff.cai@sun.com > 1.5.3. Marketing Manager: > 1.5.4. Interest List: brian.cameron@sun.com > darren.moffat@sun.com > wyllys.ingersoll@sun.com > > 2. Project Summary > 2.1. Project Description: > > GnuTLS provides a secure layer, over a reliable transport layer. > Currently the GnuTLS library implements the proposed standards by the > IETF's TLS working group. > > This fast-track increments the version of GnuTLS in Solaris > from 1.6.3 to 2.2.4. > > 3. Technical Description: > 3.1. Details: > > GnuTLS is a modern C library that implements the standard network > security protocol Transport Layer Security (TLS), for use by network > applications. > > A number of projects in Solaris Desktop such as Evolution, Pidgin, > Ekiga and Vino depend on it. > > The latest stable version of GnuTLS is 2.2.4. > > Compared with the previously integrated version, GnuTLS 1.6.3, the new > version adds following features: > > * Support for external RSA/DSA signing for TLS client authentication. > This allows you to secure the private key better, for example by > using privilege-separation techniques between the private key and > the network client/server. > * Support for signing X.509 certificates using RSA with SHA- > 256/384/512. > * Support for X.509 Proxy Certificates (RFC 3820) > * Support for Supplemental handshakes messages (RFC 4680). > * Support for TLS authorization extension (draft-housley-tls-authz- > extns-07). > * Many bugfixes and minor improvements. > * SRP support aligned with newly published RFC 5054. > > Note: > GnuTLS was imported by Evolution at the earliest and there's no > seperate ARC material was provided at that time. > > 3.2. Interfaces: > Exported Interfaces > Interface Classification Comments > --------------- -------------- ----------------------- > SUNWgnutls Uncommitted Package name (unchanged) > SUNWgnutls-devel Uncommitted Package name (unchanged) > > /usr/lib/libgnutls.so.26 Volatile C library (changed) > /usr/lib/libgnutlsxx.so.26 Volatile C++ library (changed) > > /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnutls.pc Volatile (unchanged) > /usr/share/aclocal/libgnutls.m4 Volatile (unchanged) > /usr/include/gnutls/gnutls.h Volatile (unchanged) > /usr/include/gnutls/gnutlsxx.h Volatile (unchanged) > /usr/include/gnutls/pkcs12.h Volatile (unchanged) > /usr/include/gnutls/compat.h Volatile (unchanged) > > Imported Interfaces > Interface Classification Comments > --------------- --------------- ----------------------- > /usr/lib/libgcrypt.so.11 Volatile > > Removed Interfaces > Interface Classification Comments > --------------- --------------- ----------------------- > /usr/lib/libgnutls-extra.so.13.3.0 Volatile > /usr/lib/libgnutls-openssl.so.13.3.0 Volatile > /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnutls-extra.pc Volatile > /usr/include/gnutls/extra.h Volatile > /usr/include/gnutls/openssl.h Volatile > /usr/share/aclocal/libgnutls-extra.m4 Volatile > > Note: > The "extra" GnuTLS libraries -- which contains OpenPGP and TLS/IA > support, LZO compression, the OpenSSL compatibility library -- > and the self tests and command line tools are distributed under > the GNU General Public License version 3.0 (or later), therefore, > we remove them. > > > 3.3. Packaging & Delivery: > SUNWgnutls(base package) - base package for binaries > SUNWgnutls-devel (development package) - develoment package for > header and documents > > 3.4. Dependencies: > libgnutls depends on libgcrypt, zlib. > > 3.5 References > Sun Evolution LSARC/2003/298/ > > 4. Resources and Schedule: > > 4.1. Product Approval Committee requested information: > 4.1.1. Consolidation Name: > > Desktop Cteam/GNOME > > 4.1.2. Contributing OpCo/BU/Division Name: > > Desktop Solutions > > 4.1.3. Type of PAC Review and Approval expected: > > FastTrack > > 5. References > Project website: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnutls/ > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > Desktop > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-arc mailing list > opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org