Return-path: Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com ([192.18.6.120]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6K00E3OVBF49A0@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM; Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:02:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6K00C01V9AWV00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT jim.gates@sun.com); Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:02:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from phys-emea3-1.uk.sun.com ([192.18.6.11]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6K008YFVBCENB0@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT jim.gates@sun.com); Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:02:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.196]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6K00E1LVBC49A0@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT jim.gates@sun.com); Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:02:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m82H1w0I027262 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:01:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m82H1rX6023974 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:jim.gates@sun.com>; Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6K0010LVB72I00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for jim.gates@sun.com (ORCPT jim.gates@sun.com); Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:01:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.196]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6K000F3VB12290@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for jim.gates@sun.com (ORCPT jim.gates@sun.com); Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:01:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serinus.UK.Sun.COM (serinus.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.173.208]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m82H1nYm027186 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:01:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (vpn-129-150-64-255.East.Sun.COM [129.150.64.255]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m82H1IrS023421 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:01:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:00:35 -0400 From: James Gates Subject: [Fwd: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?] To: jim.gates@sun.com Message-id: <48BD7133.7040500@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw)" X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20060509 Original-recipient: rfc822;jim.gates@sun.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT -- Jim Gates Sun Microsystems Nashua, NH, USA http://sun.com/postgresql --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6D00FUIY1GAV00@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:17:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6D00301XYVUA00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Michele.Budris@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:17:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.10] ([67.177.224.224]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6D00C71Y1D4B50@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:17:37 -0600 From: Michele Budris Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B76BD7.9090103@sun.com> Sender: Michele.Budris@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: James Gates , Mayuresh Nirhali , Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM, Alfred Peng Message-id: <6A899102-8FCB-486B-BE9B-E9F19561964A@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> <48B6430B.2010601@Sun.COM> <48B684E5.2000608@Sun.COM> <48B6DC1A.6050707@Sun.COM> <48B76BD7.9090103@sun.com> Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM Yes, I'm OK with giving this a waiver. Michele On Aug 28, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Brian Cameron wrote: > > James: > > Yes, I am satisfied. However Michele Budris is the person who really > makes decisions about a11y waivers. If she is comfortable providing a > waiver, then I think we are done. If there are reasonable > alternatives > (such as CLI that can be run from a terminal) so that disabled people > can access the functionality, then this is probably a reasonable > argument to suggest that the fixing of wxWidgets accessibility can > defer until there are a wider set of programs which use this widget > set on Solaris. Then it should be easier to resource. > > However, it would probably be good for the project team to provide > documentation (perhaps in their manpage) to explain the accessibility > issues to end users. To explain that users with disabilities have to > use other tools, and what those tools are. Does this seem reasonable > to the project team? If so, then I'd mention that you plan to update > the manpages in this way in the ARC docs as well. > > I also think that it would be smart if we commit ourselves to making > sure to actually finish an a11y evaluation of the pgAdmin program so > we have a good understanding of exactly what is broken. However, I > don't think that should be a blocker for ARC approval. But you might > want to mention in the ARC documents that the project team commits ot > doing such work just to make sure that this is recorded. > > Brian > > >> Does the update (included below for reference) now satisfy Brian's >> concerns about accessibility? Seems to me we're relying on the >> community and/or the next GUI to use wxwidgets to force through >> the necessary changes? >> If so, I'll just update the case notes & close the case. >> 2.2. Risks and Assumptions: >> wxWidgets (2.8.8) has certain accessibility features missing. >> This will >> break the accessibility support for the GUI tools/applications >> that depend >> on wxWidgets for one or more of such accessibility features. >> Please note that, >> not all GUI tools/applications will depend on the missing >> accessibility features >> in wxWidgets, in such case that particular tool/application is >> fully >> accessible. >> During the accessibility testing of FileZilla, the above issue >> was discovered >> and it has been notified to the wxWidgets community. The link >> below provides >> all the details about this issue, including the specifics of >> the missing >> accessibility features in wxWidgets. >> http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/9785 >> On 08/28/08 06:58, Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: >>> Jim, >>> >>> Thanks again for sponsoring this ARC case. >>> Please find the updated one-pager for wxWIdgets attached here. >>> >>> Feel free to send me your comments, >>> cheers >>> Mayuresh >>> >>> Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: >>>> Brian, >>>> >>>> I agree with you that it is probably acceptible to avoid having >>>> a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternatives which in my >>>> opinion are present. Plus, the GUI tool that is using wxWidgets >>>> should really be worried about the missing a11y features iff >>>> those are required for that tool; not all tools may have this >>>> problem of missing some a11y features in wxWidgets. >>>> But till now in all our discussions, I dont see a clear message >>>> either to go ahead with the integration or otherwise. >>>> >>>> I think I should submit the ARC proposal again updating all the >>>> above information, >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> Mayuresh >>>> >>>> Brian Cameron wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Mayuresh: >>>>> >>>>>> I dont think it is possible to get the checklist ready by 9/2. >>>>>> We are having some issue with regards to the ARC case. The >>>>>> case is not approved yet. wxWidgets has some missing >>>>>> accessibility support. >>>>>> The waiver can only be granted if there is commitment from our >>>>>> side to work with wxWidgets community to provide the support >>>>>> for missing a11y features. >>>>> >>>>> That's probably not true. It is probably acceptable to avoid >>>>> having >>>>> a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternative, accessible >>>>> mechanisms >>>>> for a disabled person to do the same thing that the GUI does. >>>>> >>>>> Then, you transfer the burden of actually fixing wxWidgets a11y >>>>> issues >>>>> to the next team who wants to integrate a program which uses it. >>>>> >>>>> However, even if you do this, any progress we make towards >>>>> helping the >>>>> wxWidgets community improve their accessibility is a good step >>>>> to take. >>>>> I would continue working with the Desktop team and see if we >>>>> might be >>>>> able to provide some assistance. At the very least, our team >>>>> might >>>>> be able to do a QA analysis of your application and scope the work >>>>> required. If we find that the work isn't actually so great, it >>>>> might >>>>> not be so hard to find a resource to work on it. >>>>> >>>>>> I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams >>>>>> to find out if anyone can take this up as a project. >>>>> >>>>> Good idea. >>>>> >>>>>> Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and >>>>>> currently the wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team >>>>>> and the desktop team. >>>>>> I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver >>>>>> soon, so can we put this item for b100 instead ? >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Mayuresh, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? >>>>>>> If so, I'll need to have a >>>>>>> completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, >>>>>>> etc.) by Tuesday (9/2) >>>>>>> to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The >>>>>>> SFW C-Team can >>>>>>> only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me >>>>>>> a checklist by >>>>>>> Tuesday is do-able. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> mary >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.34.120]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6D00EBSXMW06F0@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:08:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6D00901XICXV00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.154.71] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6D002POXMRV590@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:08:51 -0700 From: mary valderrama - sun microsystem Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> Sender: Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM To: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM Cc: Brian Cameron , Michele Budris , Alfred Peng , James Gates Reply-to: Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM Message-id: <48B88183.10507@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM Hi Mayuresh, No problem, I'll move your target to snv_100. mary On 08/27/08 20:17, Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: > Mary, > > I dont think it is possible to get the checklist ready by 9/2. > We are having some issue with regards to the ARC case. The case is not > approved yet. wxWidgets has some missing accessibility support. > The waiver can only be granted if there is commitment from our side to > work with wxWidgets community to provide the support for missing a11y > features. > I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams to find > out if anyone can take this up as a project. > > Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and currently > the wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team and the desktop team. > I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver soon, so > can we put this item for b100 instead ? > > Cheers > Mayuresh > > > mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: >> Hi Mayuresh, >> >> Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? If so, >> I'll need to have a >> completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, etc.) by >> Tuesday (9/2) >> to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. >> >> Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The SFW >> C-Team can >> only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me a >> checklist by >> Tuesday is do-able. >> >> Thanks, >> mary > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6C000V6ES03770@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 04:24:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6C00C01EN08600@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.0.0.4] ([72.47.1.89]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6C00AL8ERY06A0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:23:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:24:07 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B6DC1A.6050707@Sun.COM> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: James Gates Cc: Mayuresh Nirhali , Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM, Michele Budris , Alfred Peng Message-id: <48B76BD7.9090103@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> <48B6430B.2010601@Sun.COM> <48B684E5.2000608@Sun.COM> <48B6DC1A.6050707@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080811) Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM James: Yes, I am satisfied. However Michele Budris is the person who really makes decisions about a11y waivers. If she is comfortable providing a waiver, then I think we are done. If there are reasonable alternatives (such as CLI that can be run from a terminal) so that disabled people can access the functionality, then this is probably a reasonable argument to suggest that the fixing of wxWidgets accessibility can defer until there are a wider set of programs which use this widget set on Solaris. Then it should be easier to resource. However, it would probably be good for the project team to provide documentation (perhaps in their manpage) to explain the accessibility issues to end users. To explain that users with disabilities have to use other tools, and what those tools are. Does this seem reasonable to the project team? If so, then I'd mention that you plan to update the manpages in this way in the ARC docs as well. I also think that it would be smart if we commit ourselves to making sure to actually finish an a11y evaluation of the pgAdmin program so we have a good understanding of exactly what is broken. However, I don't think that should be a blocker for ARC approval. But you might want to mention in the ARC documents that the project team commits ot doing such work just to make sure that this is recorded. Brian > Does the update (included below for reference) now satisfy Brian's > concerns about accessibility? Seems to me we're relying on the community > and/or the next GUI to use wxwidgets to force through the necessary > changes? > > If so, I'll just update the case notes & close the case. > > 2.2. Risks and Assumptions: > > wxWidgets (2.8.8) has certain accessibility features missing. This will > break the accessibility support for the GUI tools/applications that > depend > on wxWidgets for one or more of such accessibility features. Please > note that, > not all GUI tools/applications will depend on the missing > accessibility features > in wxWidgets, in such case that particular tool/application is fully > accessible. > > During the accessibility testing of FileZilla, the above issue was > discovered > and it has been notified to the wxWidgets community. The link below > provides > all the details about this issue, including the specifics of the > missing > accessibility features in wxWidgets. > > http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/9785 > > > On 08/28/08 06:58, Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: >> Jim, >> >> Thanks again for sponsoring this ARC case. >> Please find the updated one-pager for wxWIdgets attached here. >> >> Feel free to send me your comments, >> cheers >> Mayuresh >> >> Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: >>> Brian, >>> >>> I agree with you that it is probably acceptible to avoid having a >>> plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternatives which in my opinion >>> are present. Plus, the GUI tool that is using wxWidgets should really >>> be worried about the missing a11y features iff those are required for >>> that tool; not all tools may have this problem of missing some a11y >>> features in wxWidgets. >>> But till now in all our discussions, I dont see a clear message >>> either to go ahead with the integration or otherwise. >>> >>> I think I should submit the ARC proposal again updating all the above >>> information, >>> >>> cheers >>> Mayuresh >>> >>> Brian Cameron wrote: >>>> >>>> Mayuresh: >>>> >>>>> I dont think it is possible to get the checklist ready by 9/2. >>>>> We are having some issue with regards to the ARC case. The case is >>>>> not approved yet. wxWidgets has some missing accessibility support. >>>>> The waiver can only be granted if there is commitment from our side >>>>> to work with wxWidgets community to provide the support for missing >>>>> a11y features. >>>> >>>> That's probably not true. It is probably acceptable to avoid having >>>> a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternative, accessible mechanisms >>>> for a disabled person to do the same thing that the GUI does. >>>> >>>> Then, you transfer the burden of actually fixing wxWidgets a11y issues >>>> to the next team who wants to integrate a program which uses it. >>>> >>>> However, even if you do this, any progress we make towards helping the >>>> wxWidgets community improve their accessibility is a good step to take. >>>> I would continue working with the Desktop team and see if we might be >>>> able to provide some assistance. At the very least, our team might >>>> be able to do a QA analysis of your application and scope the work >>>> required. If we find that the work isn't actually so great, it might >>>> not be so hard to find a resource to work on it. >>>> >>>>> I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams to >>>>> find out if anyone can take this up as a project. >>>> >>>> Good idea. >>>> >>>>> Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and currently >>>>> the wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team and the desktop >>>>> team. >>>>> I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver soon, so >>>>> can we put this item for b100 instead ? >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>>> mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: >>>>>> Hi Mayuresh, >>>>>> >>>>>> Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? If >>>>>> so, I'll need to have a >>>>>> completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, etc.) by >>>>>> Tuesday (9/2) >>>>>> to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The SFW >>>>>> C-Team can >>>>>> only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me a >>>>>> checklist by >>>>>> Tuesday is do-able. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> mary >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com ([192.18.19.176]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6B002YU5AYSQ30@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:01:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K6B00H0155DA100@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:01:46 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.227.167] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6B003Y05AWJP8R@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:01:46 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:28:45 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B6430B.2010601@Sun.COM> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: James Gates Cc: Brian Cameron , Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM, Michele Budris , Alfred Peng Message-id: <48B684E5.2000608@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_S//MV3YeiYDOh8z5krctHw)" References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> <48B6430B.2010601@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070423) Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_S//MV3YeiYDOh8z5krctHw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jim, Thanks again for sponsoring this ARC case. Please find the updated one-pager for wxWIdgets attached here. Feel free to send me your comments, cheers Mayuresh Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: > Brian, > > I agree with you that it is probably acceptible to avoid having a plan > to fix wxWidgets if there are alternatives which in my opinion are > present. Plus, the GUI tool that is using wxWidgets should really be > worried about the missing a11y features iff those are required for > that tool; not all tools may have this problem of missing some a11y > features in wxWidgets. > But till now in all our discussions, I dont see a clear message either > to go ahead with the integration or otherwise. > > I think I should submit the ARC proposal again updating all the above > information, > > cheers > Mayuresh > > Brian Cameron wrote: >> >> Mayuresh: >> >>> I dont think it is possible to get the checklist ready by 9/2. >>> We are having some issue with regards to the ARC case. The case is >>> not approved yet. wxWidgets has some missing accessibility support. >>> The waiver can only be granted if there is commitment from our side >>> to work with wxWidgets community to provide the support for missing >>> a11y features. >> >> That's probably not true. It is probably acceptable to avoid having >> a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternative, accessible mechanisms >> for a disabled person to do the same thing that the GUI does. >> >> Then, you transfer the burden of actually fixing wxWidgets a11y issues >> to the next team who wants to integrate a program which uses it. >> >> However, even if you do this, any progress we make towards helping the >> wxWidgets community improve their accessibility is a good step to take. >> I would continue working with the Desktop team and see if we might be >> able to provide some assistance. At the very least, our team might >> be able to do a QA analysis of your application and scope the work >> required. If we find that the work isn't actually so great, it might >> not be so hard to find a resource to work on it. >> >>> I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams to >>> find out if anyone can take this up as a project. >> >> Good idea. >> >>> Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and currently >>> the wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team and the desktop >>> team. >>> I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver soon, so >>> can we put this item for b100 instead ? >> >> Brian >> >> >>> mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: >>>> Hi Mayuresh, >>>> >>>> Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? If >>>> so, I'll need to have a >>>> completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, etc.) by >>>> Tuesday (9/2) >>>> to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. >>>> >>>> Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The SFW >>>> C-Team can >>>> only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me a >>>> checklist by >>>> Tuesday is do-able. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> mary >>> >> > --Boundary_(ID_S//MV3YeiYDOh8z5krctHw) Content-type: text/plain; name=onepager-wxwidgets.txt Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline; filename=onepager-wxwidgets.txt Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: wxWidgets: Cross-Platform GUI Library 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Alfred Peng/Mayuresh Nirhali 1.3. Date of This Document: 08/28/08 1.3.1. Date this project was conceived: 04/05/1997 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): 1.4.1. The PAC or CPT you expect to review your project: Solaris PAC 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: LSARC 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: Jeff.Jackson@sun.com 1.4.4. The name of your business unit: Solaris Revenue Product Engineering 1.5. Email Aliases: 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: leo.binchy@sun.com 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: Mayuresh.Nirhali@sun.com 1.5.3. Marketing Manager: glynn.foster@sun.com 1.5.4. Interest List: sfwnv-discuss@opensolaris.org database-discuss@opensolaris.org desktop-discuss@opensolaris.org 2. Project Summary 2.1. Project Description: According to wxWidgets' homepage[2], wxWidgets gives you a single, easy-to-use API for writing GUI applications on multiple platforms that still utilize the native platform's controls and utilities. On top of great GUI functionality, wxWidgets gives you: online help, network programming, streams, clipboard and drag and drop, multithreading, image loading and saving in a variety of popular formats, database support, HTML viewing and printing, and much much more. 2.2. Risks and Assumptions: wxWidgets (2.8.8) has certain accessibility features missing. This will break the accessibility support for the GUI tools/applications that depend on wxWidgets for one or more of such accessibility features. Please note that, not all GUI tools/applications will depend on the missing accessibility features in wxWidgets, in such case that particular tool/application is fully accessible. During the accessibility testing of FileZilla, the above issue was discovered and it has been notified to the wxWidgets community. The link below provides all the details about this issue, including the specifics of the missing accessibility features in wxWidgets. http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/9785 4. Technical Description: 4.1. Details: The inclusion of FileZilla has created the library dependency on wxWidgets[1]. Please note that WxWidgets already exists in Nevada today, but it is statically linked with pgAdmin3 (LSARC/2006/644 -PostgreSQL database adiministration GUI tool). The scope of this ARC case is only to expose wxWidgets as shared library to other Solaris components, such as FileZilla, and others in future. According to wxWidgets' homepage[2], wxWidgets gives you a single, easy-to-use API for writing GUI applications on multiple platforms that still utilize the native platform's controls and utilities. On top of great GUI functionality, wxWidgets gives you: online help, network programming, streams, clipboard and drag and drop, multithreading, image loading and saving in a variety of popular formats, database support, HTML viewing and printing, and much much more. wxWidgets provides the following features[3]: * Cross-platform ability. wxWidgets allows you to target different OSes, and very little platform-specific power is sacrificed by the breadth of coverage. * Wide range of control and window classes. wxWidgets has the usual basic controls such as text and bitmap buttons, text entry, scrolling list, combobox, checkbox, and so on, plus more advanced classes including wxTreeCtrl, wxListCtrl, wxNotebook etc. * Powerful event system. wxWidgets has an event system similar to MFC's message maps, that allows events to be associated with member functions either statically (at compile time) or dynamically (at run time). * Printing facilities. wxWidgets has print/preview facilities, using generating PostScript on Solaris. * Debugging facilities. wxWidgets has a memory-checking facility that can detect memory leaks, reporting them at the end of the program run in debug mode. It also has a set of assertion and debug logging macros and functions. * Database functionality. wxWidgets has a set of ODBC classes. If ODBC doesn't suit, you can use other libraries, such as the third-party cross-platform Xbase library, a free dBase clone, or SQLite which now has a GUI client written with wxWidgets. * Document/view classes. A document/view model is supported, which handles tedious housekeeping duties such as prompting the user to open and save files. Also, the wxCommand and wxCommandProcessor classes can be used in a document/view or other application, and help you to implement Undo/Redo in your program. * Drag and drop. Most ports support clipboard and drag and drop functionality. * Easy UI update. By responding to UI update events, an application can declaratively and simply specify which menu items or controls need to be enabled or disabled. This turns a potential nightmare of fiddly logic coding into an easy task, resulting in highly readable code. * Network programming. wxWidgets comes with a set of TCP/IP classes, including support for popular protocols such as FTP and HTTP. * HTML classes. wxWidgets has HTML viewing and printing classes built-in - so you can do things like put formatted text in your 'about' box, show manuals within your application, generate reports, and so on. * OpenGL integration. A wxGLCanvas package is available to allow wxWidgets applications to support OpenGL. Very few changes need to be made to existing OpenGL applications. * Diagramming application support. If you need to implement a CASE tool, or model a network, or anything involving nodes and arcs, you can use the extensive Object Graphics Library (version 3) to make your task much easier. * Multiple language support. You can now use the wxWidgets API outside C++. For example, wxPython is becoming a very popular GUI scripting tool. 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): 6739008 4.3. In Scope: wxWidgets to be used as a shared library instead its current use as statically linked library used by pgAdmin3. Also, See above. Also, note that, the 64 bit version of wxWidgets will also be integrated as part of this effort. 4.4. Out of Scope: See above. 4.5. 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/usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/vidmode.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/vlbox.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/vms_x_fix.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/vscroll.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/xpmdecod.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/xpmhand.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/animate.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/animdecod.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/grid.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/bmpcbox.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/calctrl.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/dataview.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/dateevt.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/dcbuffer.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/aboutdlg.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/hyperlink.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/joystick.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/laywin.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/odcombo.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/propdlg.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/sashwin.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/sound.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/splash.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/taskbar.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/tipdlg.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/wave.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/wizard.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/datectrl.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/mediactrl.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/wxhtml.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/htmllbox.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/debugrpt.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/dbgrid.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/basic.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/basicp.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/bmpshape.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/canvas.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/composit.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/constrnt.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/divided.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/drawn.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/drawnp.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/lines.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/linesp.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/mfutils.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/misc.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/ogldiag.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/ogl/ogl.h Volatile Header File /usr/include/wx-2.8/wx/stc/stc.h Volatile Header File Imported Interface -------------------------------------------------------------------- Interface Classification ARC case Comment -------------------------------------------------------------------- GNOME Platform Committed LSARC/2008/207 GTK+ library Libraries GNOME 2.22 SUNWzlib Committed PSARC/2006/537 libz library SUNWmlib Committed LSARC/1999/537 mediaLib 4.6. Doc Impact: New manpage, wx-config.1, wxrc.1 4.7. Admin/Config Impact: None. 4.8. HA Impact: None. 4.9. I18N/L10N Impact: The JDS team and the G11N are working together to evaluate and provide I18N/L10N support. 4.10. Packaging & Delivery: Adds new package, SUNWwxwidgets and SUNWwxwidgets-devel 4.11. Security Impact: None. 4.12. Dependencies: The following versions of the imported interfaces are required: GNOME 2.22 Upwards zlib and medialib 5. Reference Documents: [1] http://www.wxwidgets.org/ [2] http://www.wxwidgets.org/about/ [3] http://www.wxwidgets.org/about/feature2.htm [2] Related ARC cases: LSARC/2006/644: pgAdmin III LSARC 2008/207: GNOME 2.22 PSARC/2006/537: zlib LSARC/1999/537: mediaLib 6. Resources and Schedule: 6.1. Projected Availability: Project is ready for integration. 6.2. Cost of Effort: 1 Week for integration. 6.3. Cost of Capital Resources: 6.4. Product Approval Committee requested information: FastTrack 6.4.4. Project Boundary Conditions: 6.4.5. Is this a necessary project for OEM agreements: 6.4.6. Notes: 6.4.7. Target RTI Date/Release: snv_99 6.4.8. Target Code Design Review Date: N/A 6.4.9. Update approval addition: N/A 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open 6.6.1. Rationale: N/A --Boundary_(ID_S//MV3YeiYDOh8z5krctHw)-- --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com ([192.18.19.176]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6A00M80SAOCE70@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:20:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K6A00L01S879D00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:20:48 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.227.167] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6A00467SAMPG7D@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:20:48 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:47:47 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM, Michele Budris , Alfred Peng , James Gates Message-id: <48B6430B.2010601@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070423) Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM Brian, I agree with you that it is probably acceptible to avoid having a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternatives which in my opinion are present. Plus, the GUI tool that is using wxWidgets should really be worried about the missing a11y features iff those are required for that tool; not all tools may have this problem of missing some a11y features in wxWidgets. But till now in all our discussions, I dont see a clear message either to go ahead with the integration or otherwise. I think I should submit the ARC proposal again updating all the above information, cheers Mayuresh Brian Cameron wrote: > > Mayuresh: > >> I dont think it is possible to get the checklist ready by 9/2. >> We are having some issue with regards to the ARC case. The case is >> not approved yet. wxWidgets has some missing accessibility support. >> The waiver can only be granted if there is commitment from our side >> to work with wxWidgets community to provide the support for missing >> a11y features. > > That's probably not true. It is probably acceptable to avoid having > a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternative, accessible mechanisms > for a disabled person to do the same thing that the GUI does. > > Then, you transfer the burden of actually fixing wxWidgets a11y issues > to the next team who wants to integrate a program which uses it. > > However, even if you do this, any progress we make towards helping the > wxWidgets community improve their accessibility is a good step to take. > I would continue working with the Desktop team and see if we might be > able to provide some assistance. At the very least, our team might > be able to do a QA analysis of your application and scope the work > required. If we find that the work isn't actually so great, it might > not be so hard to find a resource to work on it. > >> I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams to find >> out if anyone can take this up as a project. > > Good idea. > >> Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and currently >> the wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team and the desktop team. >> I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver soon, so >> can we put this item for b100 instead ? > > Brian > > >> mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: >>> Hi Mayuresh, >>> >>> Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? If so, >>> I'll need to have a >>> completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, etc.) by >>> Tuesday (9/2) >>> to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. >>> >>> Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The SFW >>> C-Team can >>> only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me a >>> checklist by >>> Tuesday is do-able. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> mary >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6A00LGKN48A610@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:28:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6A00E01MYT1S00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] ([72.47.1.89]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6A0040RN461Y40@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:29:06 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM, Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM, Michele Budris , Alfred Peng , James Gates Message-id: <48B62992.1080307@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080811) Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM > That's probably not true. It is probably acceptable to avoid having > a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternative, accessible mechanisms > for a disabled person to do the same thing that the GUI does. > > Then, you transfer the burden of actually fixing wxWidgets a11y issues > to the next team who wants to integrate a program which uses it. Note that a command-line interface to do the same thing would probably be acceptable, since the gnome-terminal program is accessible. > However, even if you do this, any progress we make towards helping the > wxWidgets community improve their accessibility is a good step to take. > I would continue working with the Desktop team and see if we might be > able to provide some assistance. At the very least, our team might > be able to do a QA analysis of your application and scope the work > required. If we find that the work isn't actually so great, it might > not be so hard to find a resource to work on it. > >> I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams to find >> out if anyone can take this up as a project. > > Good idea. > >> Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and currently >> the wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team and the desktop team. >> I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver soon, so >> can we put this item for b100 instead ? > > Brian > > >> mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: >>> Hi Mayuresh, >>> >>> Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? If so, >>> I'll need to have a >>> completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, etc.) by >>> Tuesday (9/2) >>> to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. >>> >>> Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The SFW >>> C-Team can >>> only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me a >>> checklist by >>> Tuesday is do-able. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> mary >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6A00LAEN2KA610@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:27:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6A00L01MYLDF00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] ([72.47.1.89]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6A00GE5N2IH7A0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:27:55 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:28:06 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM Cc: Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM, Michele Budris , Alfred Peng , James Gates Message-id: <48B62956.1050800@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080811) Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM Mayuresh: > I dont think it is possible to get the checklist ready by 9/2. > We are having some issue with regards to the ARC case. The case is not > approved yet. wxWidgets has some missing accessibility support. > The waiver can only be granted if there is commitment from our side to > work with wxWidgets community to provide the support for missing a11y > features. That's probably not true. It is probably acceptable to avoid having a plan to fix wxWidgets if there are alternative, accessible mechanisms for a disabled person to do the same thing that the GUI does. Then, you transfer the burden of actually fixing wxWidgets a11y issues to the next team who wants to integrate a program which uses it. However, even if you do this, any progress we make towards helping the wxWidgets community improve their accessibility is a good step to take. I would continue working with the Desktop team and see if we might be able to provide some assistance. At the very least, our team might be able to do a QA analysis of your application and scope the work required. If we find that the work isn't actually so great, it might not be so hard to find a resource to work on it. > I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams to find > out if anyone can take this up as a project. Good idea. > Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and currently the > wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team and the desktop team. > I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver soon, so can > we put this item for b100 instead ? Brian > mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: >> Hi Mayuresh, >> >> Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? If so, >> I'll need to have a >> completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, etc.) by >> Tuesday (9/2) >> to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. >> >> Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The SFW C-Team >> can >> only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me a >> checklist by >> Tuesday is do-able. >> >> Thanks, >> mary > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99?" Return-path: Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com ([192.18.19.177]) by emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K6A00KIMJTD2U60@emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com> for James.Gates@Sun.COM; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:17:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K6A00D01JQC5J00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for James.Gates@Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:17:37 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([122.167.88.181]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6A009RMJT78ACM@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:17:37 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:47:29 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wsWidgets making it into snv_99? In-reply-to: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: Mary.Valderrama@Sun.COM Cc: Brian Cameron , Michele Budris , Alfred Peng , James Gates Reply-to: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM Message-id: <48B618C9.2070507@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <48B5CEEE.7020302@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) Original-recipient: rfc822;James.Gates@Sun.COM Mary, I dont think it is possible to get the checklist ready by 9/2. We are having some issue with regards to the ARC case. The case is not approved yet. wxWidgets has some missing accessibility support. The waiver can only be granted if there is commitment from our side to work with wxWidgets community to provide the support for missing a11y features. I am working with the desktop team and some other local teams to find out if anyone can take this up as a project. Apart from the ARC case, the code is ready for review and currently the wxWidgets packages are being tested by my team and the desktop team. I am hopeful that we will have some decision on the waiver soon, so can we put this item for b100 instead ? Cheers Mayuresh mary valderrama - sun microsystem wrote: > Hi Mayuresh, > > Is the plan still to try and integrate wsWidgets into snv_99? If so, > I'll need to have a > completed checklist (i.e. approved ARC, OSR, code review, etc.) by > Tuesday (9/2) > to make it into the SFW C-team review meeting on 9/9. > > Please note that other packages are targeting B99 also. The SFW C-Team > can > only handle 2-3 reviews per week. Please advise if getting me a > checklist by > Tuesday is do-able. > > Thanks, > mary --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-01.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.115]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7EKSBDf003693 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:28:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7EKSA12006308 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:28:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7EKSAgW000230 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:28:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5L00B01X2YY000@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.108] ([67.167.213.227]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5L004EKY6VIE50@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:28:12 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48A39AF6.4040206@Sun.COM> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM Cc: Qi-Bo Paul Mei , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM Message-id: <48A4955C.4080609@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> <48A397B5.1040603@sun.com> <48A39AF6.4040206@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080731) Mayuresh: > We (the database team) would really appreciate if such testing can be > done. > pgAdmin already exists in nevada (statically linked to wxWidgets), so > all you need to do here is to run /usr/bin/pgadmin3. > please let me know if you need any more specific information, we can > take this offline as well. I know the JDS QA team is very busy right now with integrating GNOME 2.24 into Nevada, hopefully by build 100. If nobody helps you right away, then I recommend pinging the JDS QA team periodically, especially after the Nevada build 100 timeframe when things should start getting less hectic. Brian >>> Also, I think we might want to integrate audacity (currently available >>> in spec-files-extra) in the future, so might be good to evaluate that >>> program as well. >>> >>> I bet if we did an a11y evalution on all 3 programs (FileZilla, >>> audacity and pgAdmin), then we could inform the wxWidgets community with >>> a good overview of the situation and help get them up-to-speed on what >>> needs to be done to address the issues. It would be ideal if we could >>> just get the wxWidgets community to do all the actual work to make >>> accessibility work, if possible. However, I don't think that will >>> happen unless someone (like ourselves) takes the initiative to do some >>> testing first to find out how good or bad the situation really is. >>> >>> Also, I think it would be useful to the postgreSQL team if we >>> could help them understand how well their application meets a11y >>> requirements. Obviously, this would be a task that would be >>> something we should fit in when we have the time. I would not >>> think it would be urgent, or something that needs to be done before >>> we integrate the next version of GNOME into Nevada. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>>>> Mayuresh: >>>>> >>>>> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >>>>> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >>>>> >>>>> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >>>>> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >>>>> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >>>>> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >>>>> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >>>>> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >>>>> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something >>>>>>>> we can live with until the community has the necessary >>>>>>>> implementation ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>>>>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>>>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>>>>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>>>>> integrating >>>>>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These >>>>>>> programs may >>>>>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>>>>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead >>>>>> now with the integration of wxWidgets ? >>>>> >>>>> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >>>>> fix the a11y issues. >>>>> >>>>> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >>>>> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we >>>>> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and >>>>> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is >>>>> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >>>>> >>>>>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, >>>>> unless >>>>> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on >>>>> how >>>>> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >>>>> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >>>>> those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, >>>>> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >>>>> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >>>>> >>>>>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of >>>>>> FileZilla ? >>>>> >>>>> Not if we have a waiver. >>>>> >>>>>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >>>>>> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >>>>> >>>>> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >>>>> >>>>>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >>>>> >>>>> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >>>>> relates. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> Subject: >>>> Re: Please help evaluate the A11Y feature of Filezilla >>>> From: >>>> "Tao, Miao" >>>> Date: >>>> Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:09 +0800 >>>> To: >>>> Alfred Peng >>>> >>>> To: >>>> Alfred Peng >>>> CC: >>>> "Irene (Shi Ying) Huang" , Qi-Bo Paul Mei >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Alfred, >>>> >>>> I've finished the first evaluation to filezilla a11y, here's detailed >>>> report: >>>> >>>> 1. Toolbar accessibility >>>> The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't >>>> support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this >>>> toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. >>>> >>>> Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. >>>> >>>> 2. Panel accessibility >>>> Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it >>>> also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused >>>> item to at-tools, including orca and gok. >>>> >>>> Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation >>>> nor >>>> other at-tools accessing. >>>> >>>> 3. Settings frame accessibility >>>> Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this >>>> frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard >>>> only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say >>>> left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. >>>> >>>> This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of >>>> keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in >>>> section 2 are also visible here. >>>> >>>> 4. Warning dialog accessibility >>>> Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks >>>> blind accessing. >>>> >>>> 5. Others: >>>> HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. >>>> >>>> Based on results above, filezilla can not meet the requirements of >>>> Section508. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -Tim >>>> On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 20:43 +0800, Alfred Peng wrote: >>>>> Hi Tim, >>>>> >>>>> The URL contains the Filezilla 3.0.11 SPARC package: >>>>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEfilezilla-pkg.bz2 and >>>>> it's dependency wxWidgets: >>>>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEwxwidgets-pkg.bz2 >>>>> Please help evaluate the A11Y feature for Filezilla. >>>>> >>>>> I assume that you're using the latest Vermillion development build >>>>> as Filezilla also depends on libgnutls >= 2.0.4. Both of the >>>>> packages need to be installed: >>>>> pkgadd -d SFEwxwidgets-pkg >>>>> pkgadd -d SFEfilezilla-pkg >>>>> >>>>> Basically, wxWidgets is a Cross-Platform GUI Library and Filezilla >>>>> is a ftp client, with features in this link: >>>>> http://filezilla-project.org/client_features.php. >>>>> >>>>> Any further question for the build, please feel free to let me know. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> -Alfred >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7E3CiPD008377 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:12:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7E3CgPv029229 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:12:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7E3Cbah013526 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:12:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K5K00M01M0VSV00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Miao@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:12:37 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.217.72] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5K00BNUM8XRGZ1@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:12:35 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:11:35 +0800 From: "Tao, Miao" Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> Sender: Tim.Miao@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Mayuresh Nirhali , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM, Paul Mei Message-id: <1218683495.1684.17.camel@volleyball> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> Hi Brian, I've finished a quick test on filezilla which depends on wxWidgets, here's the result: 1. Toolbar accessibility The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. 2. Panel accessibility Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused item to at-tools, including orca and gok. Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation nor other at-tools accessing. 3. Settings frame accessibility Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in section 2 are also visible here. 4. Warning dialog accessibility Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks blind accessing. 5. Others: HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. Based on results above, I dont think filezilla can meet the requirements of Section508. Thanks, -Tim On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 11:54 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: > Paul/QE team: > > Do we have plans to do some testing of wxWidgets a11y. Since it seems > we will likely start shipping it in the next release or two, we > probably should take a look at it. > > Mayuresh: > > This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we > want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. > > Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now > because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be > requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption > functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla > probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. > > Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets > related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. > Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? > > >>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related > >>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we > >>> can live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? > >> > >> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any > >> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or > >> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level > >> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on integrating > >> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may > >> not be fully accessible due to these problems. > > Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now with > > the integration of wxWidgets ? > > I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to > fix the a11y issues. > > However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial > integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we > find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and > provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is > needed to support a11y. Can this be done? > > > Do we need to apply for a waiver ? > > Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless > the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how > important the features are that we plan to integrate that need > wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run > those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, > or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a > waiver is easier to get, obviously. > > > Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? > > Not if we have a waiver. > > > I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions from > > jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? > > I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. > > > I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! > > I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that > relates. > > Brian --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7E2e3e9007697 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:40:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7E2e1DS024951 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:40:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7E2dtZ1007673 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:39:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K5K00L01KKJPS00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:39:55 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([122.167.94.240]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5K009W0KQE8FMM@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:39:55 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:09:50 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48A397B5.1040603@sun.com> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: Qi-Bo Paul Mei Cc: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM, Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM Reply-to: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM Message-id: <48A39AF6.4040206@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> <48A397B5.1040603@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) Qi-Bo Paul Mei wrote: > > Brian Cameron wrote: >> >> For example, we could help to test the postgreSQL database >> monitoring/administration tool called pgAdmin. I think Mayuresh >> could point us towards instructions on how to run it if we were >> able to help in this way. We (the database team) would really appreciate if such testing can be done. pgAdmin already exists in nevada (statically linked to wxWidgets), so all you need to do here is to run /usr/bin/pgadmin3. please let me know if you need any more specific information, we can take this offline as well. Thanks in advance Mayuresh >> >> Also, I think we might want to integrate audacity (currently available >> in spec-files-extra) in the future, so might be good to evaluate that >> program as well. >> >> I bet if we did an a11y evalution on all 3 programs (FileZilla, >> audacity and pgAdmin), then we could inform the wxWidgets community with >> a good overview of the situation and help get them up-to-speed on what >> needs to be done to address the issues. It would be ideal if we could >> just get the wxWidgets community to do all the actual work to make >> accessibility work, if possible. However, I don't think that will >> happen unless someone (like ourselves) takes the initiative to do some >> testing first to find out how good or bad the situation really is. >> >> Also, I think it would be useful to the postgreSQL team if we >> could help them understand how well their application meets a11y >> requirements. Obviously, this would be a task that would be >> something we should fit in when we have the time. I would not >> think it would be urgent, or something that needs to be done before >> we integrate the next version of GNOME into Nevada. >> >> Brian >> >> >>>> Mayuresh: >>>> >>>> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >>>> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >>>> >>>> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >>>> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >>>> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >>>> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >>>> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >>>> >>>> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >>>> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >>>> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >>>> >>>>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something >>>>>>> we can live with until the community has the necessary >>>>>>> implementation ? >>>>>> >>>>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>>>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>>>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>>>> integrating >>>>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These >>>>>> programs may >>>>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>>>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead >>>>> now with the integration of wxWidgets ? >>>> >>>> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >>>> fix the a11y issues. >>>> >>>> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >>>> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we >>>> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and >>>> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is >>>> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >>>> >>>>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >>>> >>>> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, >>>> unless >>>> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on >>>> how >>>> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >>>> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >>>> those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, >>>> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >>>> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >>>> >>>>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of >>>>> FileZilla ? >>>> >>>> Not if we have a waiver. >>>> >>>>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >>>>> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >>>> >>>> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >>>> >>>>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >>>> >>>> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >>>> relates. >>>> >>>> Brian >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> Subject: >>> Re: Please help evaluate the A11Y feature of Filezilla >>> From: >>> "Tao, Miao" >>> Date: >>> Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:09 +0800 >>> To: >>> Alfred Peng >>> >>> To: >>> Alfred Peng >>> CC: >>> "Irene (Shi Ying) Huang" , Qi-Bo Paul Mei >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Alfred, >>> >>> I've finished the first evaluation to filezilla a11y, here's detailed >>> report: >>> >>> 1. Toolbar accessibility >>> The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't >>> support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this >>> toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. >>> >>> Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. >>> >>> 2. Panel accessibility >>> Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it >>> also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused >>> item to at-tools, including orca and gok. >>> >>> Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation >>> nor >>> other at-tools accessing. >>> >>> 3. Settings frame accessibility >>> Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this >>> frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard >>> only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say >>> left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. >>> >>> This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of >>> keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in >>> section 2 are also visible here. >>> >>> 4. Warning dialog accessibility >>> Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks >>> blind accessing. >>> >>> 5. Others: >>> HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. >>> >>> Based on results above, filezilla can not meet the requirements of >>> Section508. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Tim >>> On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 20:43 +0800, Alfred Peng wrote: >>>> Hi Tim, >>>> >>>> The URL contains the Filezilla 3.0.11 SPARC package: >>>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEfilezilla-pkg.bz2 and >>>> it's dependency wxWidgets: >>>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEwxwidgets-pkg.bz2 >>>> Please help evaluate the A11Y feature for Filezilla. >>>> >>>> I assume that you're using the latest Vermillion development build >>>> as Filezilla also depends on libgnutls >= 2.0.4. Both of the >>>> packages need to be installed: >>>> pkgadd -d SFEwxwidgets-pkg >>>> pkgadd -d SFEfilezilla-pkg >>>> >>>> Basically, wxWidgets is a Cross-Platform GUI Library and Filezilla >>>> is a ftp client, with features in this link: >>>> http://filezilla-project.org/client_features.php. >>>> >>>> Any further question for the build, please feel free to let me know. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -Alfred >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-01.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.115]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7E2XRW7007582 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:33:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7E2XPCo001245 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:33:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7E2XKwD007148 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:33:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K5K00H01KDFOQ00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Paul.Mei@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:33:20 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.148.47] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5K00MVAKFG9K70@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:33:19 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:33:16 +0800 From: Qi-Bo Paul Mei Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48A347DB.4070003@sun.com> Sender: Paul.Mei@Sun.COM To: Willie Walker Cc: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM, Mayuresh Nirhali , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM Message-id: <48A3996C.6070507@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> <48A347DB.4070003@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080228) Welcome to GNOME Asia summit and BJ. We look forward to meet with your about our a11y work. Best Regards, Paul. Willie Walker wrote: > On a related note, I've been invited to go to GNOME Asia this fall. > If I get budget for the trip, I'd like to have a separate dedicated > accessibility testing meeting with Sun Beijing to review and possibly > revise our plan for accessibility testing for JDS/GNOME. > > One of the main things I want to do is reduce the number of > accessibility surprises we run into, such as toolkit and application > regressions late in the GNOME release cycle as well as proactive > analysis of new components going into both GNOME and JDS. We have a > really capable team in Beijing and I think we can accomplish good stuff. > > Will > > Brian Cameron wrote: >> >> Paul: >> >>> We don't plan to do the wxWidgets a11y testing now because it is >>> just one library. We have done the a11y evaluation for Filezilla. >>> Please see attached mail from Tim. >> >> Right, I was not suggesting that we should try to directly test a11y >> with wxWidgets, but I think it might be good for our QA team to help >> do a QA evaluation of the various tools which use it. >> >> For example, we could help to test the postgreSQL database >> monitoring/administration tool called pgAdmin. I think Mayuresh >> could point us towards instructions on how to run it if we were >> able to help in this way. >> >> Also, I think we might want to integrate audacity (currently available >> in spec-files-extra) in the future, so might be good to evaluate that >> program as well. >> >> I bet if we did an a11y evalution on all 3 programs (FileZilla, >> audacity and pgAdmin), then we could inform the wxWidgets community with >> a good overview of the situation and help get them up-to-speed on what >> needs to be done to address the issues. It would be ideal if we could >> just get the wxWidgets community to do all the actual work to make >> accessibility work, if possible. However, I don't think that will >> happen unless someone (like ourselves) takes the initiative to do some >> testing first to find out how good or bad the situation really is. >> >> Also, I think it would be useful to the postgreSQL team if we >> could help them understand how well their application meets a11y >> requirements. Obviously, this would be a task that would be >> something we should fit in when we have the time. I would not >> think it would be urgent, or something that needs to be done before >> we integrate the next version of GNOME into Nevada. >> >> Brian >> >> >>>> Mayuresh: >>>> >>>> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >>>> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >>>> >>>> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >>>> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >>>> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >>>> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >>>> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >>>> >>>> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >>>> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >>>> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >>>> >>>>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something >>>>>>> we can live with until the community has the necessary >>>>>>> implementation ? >>>>>> >>>>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>>>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>>>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>>>> integrating >>>>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These >>>>>> programs may >>>>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>>>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead >>>>> now with the integration of wxWidgets ? >>>> >>>> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >>>> fix the a11y issues. >>>> >>>> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >>>> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we >>>> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and >>>> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is >>>> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >>>> >>>>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >>>> >>>> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, >>>> unless >>>> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on >>>> how >>>> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >>>> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >>>> those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, >>>> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >>>> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >>>> >>>>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of >>>>> FileZilla ? >>>> >>>> Not if we have a waiver. >>>> >>>>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >>>>> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >>>> >>>> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >>>> >>>>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >>>> >>>> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >>>> relates. >>>> >>>> Brian >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> Subject: >>> Re: Please help evaluate the A11Y feature of Filezilla >>> From: >>> "Tao, Miao" >>> Date: >>> Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:09 +0800 >>> To: >>> Alfred Peng >>> >>> To: >>> Alfred Peng >>> CC: >>> "Irene (Shi Ying) Huang" , Qi-Bo Paul Mei >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Alfred, >>> >>> I've finished the first evaluation to filezilla a11y, here's detailed >>> report: >>> >>> 1. Toolbar accessibility >>> The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't >>> support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this >>> toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. >>> >>> Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. >>> >>> 2. Panel accessibility >>> Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it >>> also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused >>> item to at-tools, including orca and gok. >>> >>> Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation >>> nor >>> other at-tools accessing. >>> >>> 3. Settings frame accessibility >>> Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this >>> frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard >>> only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say >>> left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. >>> >>> This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of >>> keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in >>> section 2 are also visible here. >>> >>> 4. Warning dialog accessibility >>> Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks >>> blind accessing. >>> >>> 5. Others: >>> HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. >>> >>> Based on results above, filezilla can not meet the requirements of >>> Section508. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Tim >>> On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 20:43 +0800, Alfred Peng wrote: >>>> Hi Tim, >>>> >>>> The URL contains the Filezilla 3.0.11 SPARC package: >>>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEfilezilla-pkg.bz2 and >>>> it's dependency wxWidgets: >>>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEwxwidgets-pkg.bz2 >>>> Please help evaluate the A11Y feature for Filezilla. >>>> >>>> I assume that you're using the latest Vermillion development build >>>> as Filezilla also depends on libgnutls >= 2.0.4. Both of the >>>> packages need to be installed: >>>> pkgadd -d SFEwxwidgets-pkg >>>> pkgadd -d SFEfilezilla-pkg >>>> >>>> Basically, wxWidgets is a Cross-Platform GUI Library and Filezilla >>>> is a ftp client, with features in this link: >>>> http://filezilla-project.org/client_features.php. >>>> >>>> Any further question for the build, please feel free to let me know. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -Alfred >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7E2Q7QW007418 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:26:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7E2Q6V2023609 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:26:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7E2Q0Jj006722 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:26:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K5K00B01K0CO500@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Paul.Mei@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:26:00 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.148.47] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5K00ML6K3A9K70@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:26:00 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:25:57 +0800 From: Qi-Bo Paul Mei Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> Sender: Paul.Mei@Sun.COM To: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Cc: Mayuresh Nirhali , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM Message-id: <48A397B5.1040603@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080228) Thanks Brian. It is good suggestion, I will discuss with my team about it. Thanks, Paul. Brian Cameron wrote: > > Paul: > >> We don't plan to do the wxWidgets a11y testing now because it is just >> one library. We have done the a11y evaluation for Filezilla. Please >> see attached mail from Tim. > > Right, I was not suggesting that we should try to directly test a11y > with wxWidgets, but I think it might be good for our QA team to help > do a QA evaluation of the various tools which use it. > > For example, we could help to test the postgreSQL database > monitoring/administration tool called pgAdmin. I think Mayuresh > could point us towards instructions on how to run it if we were > able to help in this way. > > Also, I think we might want to integrate audacity (currently available > in spec-files-extra) in the future, so might be good to evaluate that > program as well. > > I bet if we did an a11y evalution on all 3 programs (FileZilla, > audacity and pgAdmin), then we could inform the wxWidgets community with > a good overview of the situation and help get them up-to-speed on what > needs to be done to address the issues. It would be ideal if we could > just get the wxWidgets community to do all the actual work to make > accessibility work, if possible. However, I don't think that will > happen unless someone (like ourselves) takes the initiative to do some > testing first to find out how good or bad the situation really is. > > Also, I think it would be useful to the postgreSQL team if we > could help them understand how well their application meets a11y > requirements. Obviously, this would be a task that would be > something we should fit in when we have the time. I would not > think it would be urgent, or something that needs to be done before > we integrate the next version of GNOME into Nevada. > > Brian > > >>> Mayuresh: >>> >>> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >>> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >>> >>> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >>> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >>> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >>> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >>> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >>> >>> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >>> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >>> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >>> >>>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something >>>>>> we can live with until the community has the necessary >>>>>> implementation ? >>>>> >>>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>>> integrating >>>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs >>>>> may >>>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now >>>> with the integration of wxWidgets ? >>> >>> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >>> fix the a11y issues. >>> >>> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >>> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we >>> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and >>> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is >>> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >>> >>>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >>> >>> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless >>> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how >>> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >>> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >>> those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, >>> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >>> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >>> >>>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of >>>> FileZilla ? >>> >>> Not if we have a waiver. >>> >>>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >>>> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >>> >>> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >>> >>>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >>> >>> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >>> relates. >>> >>> Brian >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Subject: >> Re: Please help evaluate the A11Y feature of Filezilla >> From: >> "Tao, Miao" >> Date: >> Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:09 +0800 >> To: >> Alfred Peng >> >> To: >> Alfred Peng >> CC: >> "Irene (Shi Ying) Huang" , Qi-Bo Paul Mei >> >> >> >> Hi Alfred, >> >> I've finished the first evaluation to filezilla a11y, here's detailed >> report: >> >> 1. Toolbar accessibility >> The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't >> support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this >> toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. >> >> Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. >> >> 2. Panel accessibility >> Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it >> also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused >> item to at-tools, including orca and gok. >> >> Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation nor >> other at-tools accessing. >> >> 3. Settings frame accessibility >> Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this >> frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard >> only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say >> left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. >> >> This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of >> keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in >> section 2 are also visible here. >> >> 4. Warning dialog accessibility >> Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks >> blind accessing. >> >> 5. Others: >> HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. >> >> Based on results above, filezilla can not meet the requirements of >> Section508. >> >> Thanks, >> -Tim >> On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 20:43 +0800, Alfred Peng wrote: >>> Hi Tim, >>> >>> The URL contains the Filezilla 3.0.11 SPARC package: >>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEfilezilla-pkg.bz2 and >>> it's dependency wxWidgets: >>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEwxwidgets-pkg.bz2 >>> Please help evaluate the A11Y feature for Filezilla. >>> >>> I assume that you're using the latest Vermillion development build >>> as Filezilla also depends on libgnutls >= 2.0.4. Both of the >>> packages need to be installed: >>> pkgadd -d SFEwxwidgets-pkg >>> pkgadd -d SFEfilezilla-pkg >>> >>> Basically, wxWidgets is a Cross-Platform GUI Library and Filezilla >>> is a ftp client, with features in this link: >>> http://filezilla-project.org/client_features.php. >>> >>> Any further question for the build, please feel free to let me know. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Alfred >>> >>> >> > > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7DKl0di016631 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:47:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7DKkx9X006596 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:47:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7DKkxTg025298 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:46:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5K0080145WZ100@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] ([24.181.237.108]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5K000YD4DI9130@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:45:15 -0400 From: Willie Walker Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Cc: Qi-Bo Paul Mei , Mayuresh Nirhali , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM Message-id: <48A347DB.4070003@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080811) On a related note, I've been invited to go to GNOME Asia this fall. If I get budget for the trip, I'd like to have a separate dedicated accessibility testing meeting with Sun Beijing to review and possibly revise our plan for accessibility testing for JDS/GNOME. One of the main things I want to do is reduce the number of accessibility surprises we run into, such as toolkit and application regressions late in the GNOME release cycle as well as proactive analysis of new components going into both GNOME and JDS. We have a really capable team in Beijing and I think we can accomplish good stuff. Will Brian Cameron wrote: > > Paul: > >> We don't plan to do the wxWidgets a11y testing now because it is just >> one library. We have done the a11y evaluation for Filezilla. Please >> see attached mail from Tim. > > Right, I was not suggesting that we should try to directly test a11y > with wxWidgets, but I think it might be good for our QA team to help > do a QA evaluation of the various tools which use it. > > For example, we could help to test the postgreSQL database > monitoring/administration tool called pgAdmin. I think Mayuresh > could point us towards instructions on how to run it if we were > able to help in this way. > > Also, I think we might want to integrate audacity (currently available > in spec-files-extra) in the future, so might be good to evaluate that > program as well. > > I bet if we did an a11y evalution on all 3 programs (FileZilla, > audacity and pgAdmin), then we could inform the wxWidgets community with > a good overview of the situation and help get them up-to-speed on what > needs to be done to address the issues. It would be ideal if we could > just get the wxWidgets community to do all the actual work to make > accessibility work, if possible. However, I don't think that will > happen unless someone (like ourselves) takes the initiative to do some > testing first to find out how good or bad the situation really is. > > Also, I think it would be useful to the postgreSQL team if we > could help them understand how well their application meets a11y > requirements. Obviously, this would be a task that would be > something we should fit in when we have the time. I would not > think it would be urgent, or something that needs to be done before > we integrate the next version of GNOME into Nevada. > > Brian > > >>> Mayuresh: >>> >>> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >>> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >>> >>> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >>> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >>> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >>> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >>> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >>> >>> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >>> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >>> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >>> >>>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something >>>>>> we can live with until the community has the necessary >>>>>> implementation ? >>>>> >>>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>>> integrating >>>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may >>>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now >>>> with the integration of wxWidgets ? >>> >>> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >>> fix the a11y issues. >>> >>> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >>> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we >>> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and >>> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is >>> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >>> >>>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >>> >>> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless >>> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how >>> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >>> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >>> those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, >>> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >>> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >>> >>>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? >>> >>> Not if we have a waiver. >>> >>>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >>>> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >>> >>> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >>> >>>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >>> >>> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >>> relates. >>> >>> Brian >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Subject: >> Re: Please help evaluate the A11Y feature of Filezilla >> From: >> "Tao, Miao" >> Date: >> Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:09 +0800 >> To: >> Alfred Peng >> >> To: >> Alfred Peng >> CC: >> "Irene (Shi Ying) Huang" , Qi-Bo Paul Mei >> >> >> >> Hi Alfred, >> >> I've finished the first evaluation to filezilla a11y, here's detailed >> report: >> >> 1. Toolbar accessibility >> The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't >> support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this >> toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. >> >> Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. >> >> 2. Panel accessibility >> Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it >> also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused >> item to at-tools, including orca and gok. >> >> Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation nor >> other at-tools accessing. >> >> 3. Settings frame accessibility >> Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this >> frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard >> only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say >> left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. >> >> This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of >> keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in >> section 2 are also visible here. >> >> 4. Warning dialog accessibility >> Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks >> blind accessing. >> >> 5. Others: >> HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. >> >> Based on results above, filezilla can not meet the requirements of >> Section508. >> >> Thanks, >> -Tim >> On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 20:43 +0800, Alfred Peng wrote: >>> Hi Tim, >>> >>> The URL contains the Filezilla 3.0.11 SPARC package: >>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEfilezilla-pkg.bz2 and it's >>> dependency wxWidgets: >>> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEwxwidgets-pkg.bz2 >>> Please help evaluate the A11Y feature for Filezilla. >>> >>> I assume that you're using the latest Vermillion development build as >>> Filezilla also depends on libgnutls >= 2.0.4. Both of the packages >>> need to be installed: >>> pkgadd -d SFEwxwidgets-pkg >>> pkgadd -d SFEfilezilla-pkg >>> >>> Basically, wxWidgets is a Cross-Platform GUI Library and Filezilla is >>> a ftp client, with features in this link: >>> http://filezilla-project.org/client_features.php. >>> >>> Any further question for the build, please feel free to let me know. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Alfred >>> >>> >> > > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7DKUvAs016256 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:30:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7DKUvRF004251 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:30:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7DKUuWg025088 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:30:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5K005012IKZG00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:30:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.153.250.11] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5K008N73NFLE50@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:30:50 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Qi-Bo Paul Mei Cc: Mayuresh Nirhali , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM Reply-to: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM Message-id: <48A3447A.2080900@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) Paul: > We don't plan to do the wxWidgets a11y testing now because it is just > one library. We have done the a11y evaluation for Filezilla. Please see > attached mail from Tim. Right, I was not suggesting that we should try to directly test a11y with wxWidgets, but I think it might be good for our QA team to help do a QA evaluation of the various tools which use it. For example, we could help to test the postgreSQL database monitoring/administration tool called pgAdmin. I think Mayuresh could point us towards instructions on how to run it if we were able to help in this way. Also, I think we might want to integrate audacity (currently available in spec-files-extra) in the future, so might be good to evaluate that program as well. I bet if we did an a11y evalution on all 3 programs (FileZilla, audacity and pgAdmin), then we could inform the wxWidgets community with a good overview of the situation and help get them up-to-speed on what needs to be done to address the issues. It would be ideal if we could just get the wxWidgets community to do all the actual work to make accessibility work, if possible. However, I don't think that will happen unless someone (like ourselves) takes the initiative to do some testing first to find out how good or bad the situation really is. Also, I think it would be useful to the postgreSQL team if we could help them understand how well their application meets a11y requirements. Obviously, this would be a task that would be something we should fit in when we have the time. I would not think it would be urgent, or something that needs to be done before we integrate the next version of GNOME into Nevada. Brian >> Mayuresh: >> >> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >> >> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >> >> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >> >>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we >>>>> can live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? >>>> >>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>> integrating >>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may >>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now >>> with the integration of wxWidgets ? >> >> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >> fix the a11y issues. >> >> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we >> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and >> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is >> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >> >>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >> >> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless >> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how >> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >> those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, >> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >> >>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? >> >> Not if we have a waiver. >> >>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >>> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >> >> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >> >>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >> >> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >> relates. >> >> Brian > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: Please help evaluate the A11Y feature of Filezilla > From: > "Tao, Miao" > Date: > Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:09 +0800 > To: > Alfred Peng > > To: > Alfred Peng > CC: > "Irene (Shi Ying) Huang" , Qi-Bo Paul Mei > > > > Hi Alfred, > > I've finished the first evaluation to filezilla a11y, here's detailed > report: > > 1. Toolbar accessibility > The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't > support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this > toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. > > Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. > > 2. Panel accessibility > Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it > also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused > item to at-tools, including orca and gok. > > Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation nor > other at-tools accessing. > > 3. Settings frame accessibility > Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this > frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard > only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say > left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. > > This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of > keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in > section 2 are also visible here. > > 4. Warning dialog accessibility > Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks > blind accessing. > > 5. Others: > HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. > > Based on results above, filezilla can not meet the requirements of > Section508. > > Thanks, > -Tim > On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 20:43 +0800, Alfred Peng wrote: >> Hi Tim, >> >> The URL contains the Filezilla 3.0.11 SPARC package: >> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEfilezilla-pkg.bz2 and it's >> dependency wxWidgets: >> /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEwxwidgets-pkg.bz2 >> Please help evaluate the A11Y feature for Filezilla. >> >> I assume that you're using the latest Vermillion development build as >> Filezilla also depends on libgnutls >= 2.0.4. Both of the packages need >> to be installed: >> pkgadd -d SFEwxwidgets-pkg >> pkgadd -d SFEfilezilla-pkg >> >> Basically, wxWidgets is a Cross-Platform GUI Library and Filezilla is a >> ftp client, with features in this link: >> http://filezilla-project.org/client_features.php. >> >> Any further question for the build, please feel free to let me know. >> >> Thanks, >> -Alfred >> >> > -- Brian --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-01.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.115]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7D2ra76020578 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:53:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7D2rZN8023114 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:53:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7D2rSFb009540 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:53:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K5I00E01QNUS700@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Paul.Mei@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:53:28 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.148.47] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5I007SSQP2MHF0@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:53:28 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:53:26 +0800 From: Qi-Bo Paul Mei Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> Sender: Paul.Mei@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Mayuresh Nirhali , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM Message-id: <48A24CA6.4050808@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SR2wfn5Me6267WNOVG7GRw)" References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080228) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SR2wfn5Me6267WNOVG7GRw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Brian Cameron wrote: > > Paul/QE team: > > Do we have plans to do some testing of wxWidgets a11y. Since it seems > we will likely start shipping it in the next release or two, we > probably should take a look at it. We don't plan to do the wxWidgets a11y testing now because it is just one library. We have done the a11y evaluation for Filezilla. Please see attached mail from Tim. Thanks, Paul. > > Mayuresh: > > This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we > want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. > > Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now > because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be > requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption > functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla > probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. > > Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets > related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. > Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? > >>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we >>>> can live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? >>> >>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>> integrating >>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may >>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now >> with the integration of wxWidgets ? > > I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to > fix the a11y issues. > > However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial > integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we > find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and > provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is > needed to support a11y. Can this be done? > >> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? > > Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless > the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how > important the features are that we plan to integrate that need > wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run > those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, > or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a > waiver is easier to get, obviously. > >> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? > > Not if we have a waiver. > >> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? > > I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. > >> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! > > I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that > relates. > > Brian --Boundary_(ID_SR2wfn5Me6267WNOVG7GRw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Attached Message" Return-path: Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com ([192.18.19.176]) by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K4W0065XSTGXB50@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for Paul.Mei@Sun.COM; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:32:04 +0800 (SGT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K4W00K01SQZMM00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Tim.Miao@Sun.COM) for Paul.Mei@Sun.COM (ORCPT Paul.Mei@Sun.COM); Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:32:04 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.217.72] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K4W007QESTFUH81@mail-apac.sun.com>; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:32:04 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:09 +0800 From: "Tao, Miao" Subject: Re: Please help evaluate the A11Y feature of Filezilla In-reply-to: <487B4A02.7070406@sun.com> Sender: Tim.Miao@Sun.COM To: Alfred Peng Cc: "Irene (Shi Ying) Huang" , Qi-Bo Paul Mei Message-id: <1217572269.19420.22.camel@volleyball> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487B4A02.7070406@sun.com> Original-recipient: rfc822;Paul.Mei@Sun.COM Hi Alfred, I've finished the first evaluation to filezilla a11y, here's detailed report: 1. Toolbar accessibility The toolbar of filezilla is not accessible to orca. And it doesn't support keyboard navigations either. The features of buttons in this toolbar are not available in top menu. So this is a big problem. Good news is this toolbar is accessible to gok. 2. Panel accessibility Each panel in filezilla main frame supports keyboard navigation, and it also reflects the current focus changes, but it can not expose focused item to at-tools, including orca and gok. Queue panel is an exception, it neither supports keyboard navigation nor other at-tools accessing. 3. Settings frame accessibility Setting frame supports keyboard navigation with exceptions. When this frame is invoked first time, focus can not be changed with keyboard only. Mouse clicking is needed to put focus into different panels, say left tree view panel. After that, keyboard navigation works just fine. This also leads to the orca accessing problems due to failure of keyboard navigation. At the same time, panel problems as I mentioned in section 2 are also visible here. 4. Warning dialog accessibility Warning dialog does not support keyboard navigation, this also blocks blind accessing. 5. Others: HCLPI theme and magnifier can be supported. Based on results above, filezilla can not meet the requirements of Section508. Thanks, -Tim On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 20:43 +0800, Alfred Peng wrote: > Hi Tim, > > The URL contains the Filezilla 3.0.11 SPARC package: > /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEfilezilla-pkg.bz2 and it's > dependency wxWidgets: > /net/badminton.prc.sun.com/export/share/SFEwxwidgets-pkg.bz2 > Please help evaluate the A11Y feature for Filezilla. > > I assume that you're using the latest Vermillion development build as > Filezilla also depends on libgnutls >= 2.0.4. Both of the packages need > to be installed: > pkgadd -d SFEwxwidgets-pkg > pkgadd -d SFEfilezilla-pkg > > Basically, wxWidgets is a Cross-Platform GUI Library and Filezilla is a > ftp client, with features in this link: > http://filezilla-project.org/client_features.php. > > Any further question for the build, please feel free to let me know. > > Thanks, > -Alfred > > --Boundary_(ID_SR2wfn5Me6267WNOVG7GRw)-- --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-01.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.115]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7CFYBCw021365 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:34:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7CFYAdR015133 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:34:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7CFY98b009477 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:34:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5H00H01UGHBN00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Michele.Budris@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.13] ([67.177.224.224]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5H0007OV8VN550@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:34:06 -0600 From: Michele Budris Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48A17154.1040106@Sun.COM> Sender: Michele.Budris@Sun.COM To: Mayuresh Nirhali Cc: Brian Cameron , Deirdre Williams , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM, Paul Mei Message-id: <67F06D81-3517-4B5B-80D3-24A3D84D3494@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <489C0C89.9090509@sun.com> <48A17154.1040106@Sun.COM> Hi Mayuresh, I'm the one responsible for waivers. Please send me an email explaining what UIs are involved and why it's not accessible. We can do this offline of the whole group to determine what the situation is and it's impact to Sun. Thanks, Michele On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:17 AM, Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: > Deirdre Williams wrote: >> Brian Cameron wrote: >>> >>> Paul/QE team: >>> >>> Do we have plans to do some testing of wxWidgets a11y. Since it >>> seems >>> we will likely start shipping it in the next release or two, we >>> probably should take a look at it. >> >> SFW are delivering wxWidgets to bld 99 >> http://projectlog.sfbay/ptl/dashboard.php?UniqueID=5040 >> Dee >> > We committed to b99, because FileZilla was planned for b100. > I think the right course to follow from here is to first get a > waiver filed for wxWidgets and see the response. > It is good that we can get some more time as FileZilla is not going > to be in b100. > > I have been trying to get some informations of filing waivers, but > did not find much. > Is there anyone on this thread who can help me with information on > filing a waiver ?? > > Mayuresh > > >>> >>> Mayuresh: >>> >>> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >>> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >>> >>> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >>> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >>> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >>> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >>> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >>> >>> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >>> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >>> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >>> >>>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this >>>>>> something we can live with until the community has the >>>>>> necessary implementation ? >>>>> >>>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't >>>>> provide any >>>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some >>>>> level >>>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>>> integrating >>>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These >>>>> programs may >>>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead >>>> now with the integration of wxWidgets ? >>> >>> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >>> fix the a11y issues. >>> >>> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >>> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I >>> recommend we >>> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the >>> work and >>> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what >>> work is >>> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >>> >>>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >>> >>> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, >>> unless >>> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends >>> on how >>> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >>> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >>> those programs. If it is only used in features of little >>> importance, >>> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >>> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >>> >>>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of >>>> FileZilla ? >>> >>> Not if we have a waiver. >>> >>>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above >>>> questions from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >>> >>> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >>> >>>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >>> >>> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >>> relates. >>> >>> Brian >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7CBKHIo014923 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:20:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7CBKFB2018764 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:20:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7CBK8E1014087 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:20:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K5H00B01JHDUT00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:20:08 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.227.167] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5H00B64JHJREXK@mail-apac.sun.com>; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:20:08 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:47:40 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <489C0C89.9090509@sun.com> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Deirdre Williams , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM, Paul Mei Message-id: <48A17154.1040106@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> <489C0C89.9090509@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070423) Deirdre Williams wrote: > Brian Cameron wrote: >> >> Paul/QE team: >> >> Do we have plans to do some testing of wxWidgets a11y. Since it seems >> we will likely start shipping it in the next release or two, we >> probably should take a look at it. > > SFW are delivering wxWidgets to bld 99 > http://projectlog.sfbay/ptl/dashboard.php?UniqueID=5040 > Dee > We committed to b99, because FileZilla was planned for b100. I think the right course to follow from here is to first get a waiver filed for wxWidgets and see the response. It is good that we can get some more time as FileZilla is not going to be in b100. I have been trying to get some informations of filing waivers, but did not find much. Is there anyone on this thread who can help me with information on filing a waiver ?? Mayuresh >> >> Mayuresh: >> >> This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we >> want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. >> >> Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now >> because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be >> requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption >> functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla >> probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. >> >> Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets >> related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. >> Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >> >>>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something >>>>> we can live with until the community has the necessary >>>>> implementation ? >>>> >>>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>>> integrating >>>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may >>>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >>> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now >>> with the integration of wxWidgets ? >> >> I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to >> fix the a11y issues. >> >> However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial >> integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we >> find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and >> provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is >> needed to support a11y. Can this be done? >> >>> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? >> >> Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless >> the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how >> important the features are that we plan to integrate that need >> wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run >> those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, >> or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a >> waiver is easier to get, obviously. >> >>> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? >> >> Not if we have a waiver. >> >>> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >>> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? >> >> I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. >> >>> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! >> >> I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that >> relates. >> >> Brian > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-01.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.115]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m7896vVA025159 for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:06:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (gmp-eb-inf-1.EU.Sun.COM [192.18.6.21]) by dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7896vUE024654 for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:06:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7896qwb013863 for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:06:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5900L01Y12FH00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Deirdre.Williams@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:06:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.220.17] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5900DEUYMHB4C0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:06:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:06:17 +0100 From: Deirdre Williams Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> Sender: Deirdre.Williams@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Mayuresh Nirhali , Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM, Paul Mei Message-id: <489C0C89.9090509@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080228) Brian Cameron wrote: > > Paul/QE team: > > Do we have plans to do some testing of wxWidgets a11y. Since it seems > we will likely start shipping it in the next release or two, we > probably should take a look at it. SFW are delivering wxWidgets to bld 99 http://projectlog.sfbay/ptl/dashboard.php?UniqueID=5040 Dee > > Mayuresh: > > This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we > want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. > > Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now > because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be > requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption > functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla > probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. > > Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets > related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. > Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? > >>>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we >>>> can live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? >>> >>> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >>> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >>> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >>> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on >>> integrating >>> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may >>> not be fully accessible due to these problems. >> Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now >> with the integration of wxWidgets ? > > I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to > fix the a11y issues. > > However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial > integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we > find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and > provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is > needed to support a11y. Can this be done? > >> Do we need to apply for a waiver ? > > Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless > the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how > important the features are that we plan to integrate that need > wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run > those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, > or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a > waiver is easier to get, obviously. > >> Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? > > Not if we have a waiver. > >> I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions >> from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? > > I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. > >> I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! > > I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that > relates. > > Brian --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-01.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.115]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m77GtCIA016098 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:55:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m77GtBCn004558 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:55:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m77GtBEO009175 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:55:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5800001MWWS100@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:55:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([74.36.94.13]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K58005U5PNBMTD0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:54:46 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Mayuresh Nirhali Cc: Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates , jds-a11y , jds-dev , desktop-reqe@Sun.COM, Paul Mei Message-id: <489B28D6.2010605@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080731) Paul/QE team: Do we have plans to do some testing of wxWidgets a11y. Since it seems we will likely start shipping it in the next release or two, we probably should take a look at it. Mayuresh: This is regarding the fact that we need to likely get a waiver if we want to integrate wxWidgets into Nevada. Note that ARC is pushing back hard that we not ship Filezilla now because it contains all the PuTTY encryption code. ARC seems to be requiring that the code be updated to use the system encryption functions, or NSS/NSPR, or something standard. So, Filezilla probably won't be driving getting wxWidgets into the 08.11 release. Perhaps we should wait a release cycle to integrate the wxWidgets related stuff, that would give us more time to test a11y issues. Or is mission critical stuff going into 08.11 that needs wxWidgets? >>> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >>> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we >>> can live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? >> >> As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any >> access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or >> relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level >> of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on integrating >> into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may >> not be fully accessible due to these problems. > Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now with > the integration of wxWidgets ? I think we should, if our long term plan is to resource an effort to fix the a11y issues. However, I don't think it needs to work when we do the initial integration. We can get a waiver for initial release. I recommend we find a resource to invest enough effort to at least scope the work and provide the upstream community with direction on exactly what work is needed to support a11y. Can this be done? > Do we need to apply for a waiver ? Yes, I think the addition of a new widget set warrants a waiver, unless the a11y folks feel it is unnecessary. Getting a waiver depends on how important the features are that we plan to integrate that need wxWidgets, and how likely people with disabilities might need to run those programs. If it is only used in features of little importance, or for features which can be accessed another reasonable way, then a waiver is easier to get, obviously. > Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? Not if we have a waiver. > I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions from > jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? I'm cc:ing them now. Hopefully they can comment. > I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! I don't know what you are talking about "new mail id", or how that relates. Brian --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m77CZDMx007202 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:35:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m77CZCA8023383 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:35:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m77CZ6G9012687 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:35:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K5800101DIJXS00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:35:06 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.227.167] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K580033IDMHJP73@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:35:06 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:02:47 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <48937519.2030901@sun.com> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates Message-id: <489AEB6F.5000305@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> <48937519.2030901@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070423) Brian Cameron wrote: > >> Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related >> information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we >> can live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? > > As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any > access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or > relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level > of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on integrating > into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may > not be fully accessible due to these problems. Yes, Thank Brian. My concern here is whether we should go ahead now with the integration of wxWidgets ? Do we need to apply for a waiver ? Are these accessibility issues a blocker for integration of FileZilla ? I think we really need to get comments on all the above questions from jds-a11y team, Did you CC them ? I do not see any new mail id added to this thread ! Mayuresh > > We will need to evaluate each program that uses wxWidgets to see if > they are accessible. If there are any problems that require making > use of the non-supported functions, then you will need an a11y waiver > for your program. In other words, it is probably not a blocker, but > we will need to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. > > It would be best if we got involved with the wxWidgets community to > help solve the problems so that the programs are just accessible I > think. > > I'm cc:ing the jds-a11y team so that they can consider the ramifications > of adding the wxWidgets widget set into Solaris, and hopefully work with > us to address these problems. > > > There is no response to the bug filed by alfred in the community so > > far. > > The bug report that he filed doesn't really explain the issue in much > detail. It might be good to get the a11y team to look at this and > provide more detail about how we expect the wxWidgets community to > fix the problem. > > http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/9785 > > Brian --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m71KfnSB018906 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:41:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m71KfmMA009253 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:41:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m71Kfmwg022470 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:41:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K4X00M01VEDOO00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.153.250.90] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K4X00BOMW5NYCA0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:41:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:42:01 -0500 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> Sender: Brian.Cameron@Sun.COM To: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM Cc: Li Yuan , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates Message-id: <48937519.2030901@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080731) Mayuresh: >>> wxWidgets >>> was given okay on accessibility because it is based on GTK+ 2.0, >>> which confirms to basic level of a11y (mouse, kbd etc). >>> As it turns out, that wxWidgets is not *fully* section 508 compliant, >>> Does it mean that it should not exist in Solaris at all ? >> >> That depends on if there are block bugs about accessibility for >> xwWidgets. Before OpenSolaris comes out, if there isn't any block bug >> about accessibility for a project, it can be integrated into Solaris >> from accessibility side. If there are block bugs, the project should >> promise fixing these bugs before the release of Solaris. If there are >> still block bugs when Solaris releases, and the project really needs >> to be released with Solaris, waiver should be filed. But the policy >> of OpenSolaris is not clear to me. Since the release cycle of >> OpenSolaris is 6 months, and users can even get the newest version >> from IPS server before release, I doubt if the "plan" way still works. > > Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related > information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we can > live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? As stated, the problem with wxWidgets is that it doesn't provide any access functions for setting accessible labels, descriptions or relations. Since it uses GTK+ widgets, it should support some level of accessibility. There are a number of programs we plan on integrating into Solaris (e.g. FileZilla) which use wxWidgets. These programs may not be fully accessible due to these problems. We will need to evaluate each program that uses wxWidgets to see if they are accessible. If there are any problems that require making use of the non-supported functions, then you will need an a11y waiver for your program. In other words, it is probably not a blocker, but we will need to evaluate on a case-by-case basis. It would be best if we got involved with the wxWidgets community to help solve the problems so that the programs are just accessible I think. I'm cc:ing the jds-a11y team so that they can consider the ramifications of adding the wxWidgets widget set into Solaris, and hopefully work with us to address these problems. > There is no response to the bug filed by alfred in the community so > far. The bug report that he filed doesn't really explain the issue in much detail. It might be good to get the a11y team to look at this and provide more detail about how we expect the wxWidgets community to fix the problem. http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/9785 Brian --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m6UHUNFn019359 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:30:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m6UHULK7025354 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:30:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m6UHUFkD007146 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:30:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K4T00801XU7C000@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:30:15 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([122.167.112.35]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K4T004QSXYDPGGB@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:30:15 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:59:59 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support In-reply-to: <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: Li Yuan Cc: Brian Cameron , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates Reply-to: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM Message-id: <4890A517.7040103@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) Li Yuan wrote: > Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: >> Hello, >> >> As per the people involved in initial ARC case (wxWidgets as static >> library for pgAdmin3), wxWidgets >> was given okay on accessibility because it is based on GTK+ 2.0, >> which confirms to basic level of a11y (mouse, kbd etc). >> As it turns out, that wxWidgets is not *fully* section 508 compliant, >> Does it mean that it should not exist in Solaris at all ? > That depends on if there are block bugs about accessibility for > xwWidgets. Before OpenSolaris comes out, if there isn't any block bug > about accessibility for a project, it can be integrated into Solaris > from accessibility side. If there are block bugs, the project should > promise fixing these bugs before the release of Solaris. If there are > still block bugs when Solaris releases, and the project really needs > to be released with Solaris, waiver should be filed. But the policy > of OpenSolaris is not clear to me. Since the release cycle of > OpenSolaris is 6 months, and users can even get the newest version > from IPS server before release, I doubt if the "plan" way still works. Brian/Alfred, Do you have any thoughts on whether not having any ATK related information in wxWidgets is a blocker issue Or Is this something we can live with until the community has the necessary implementation ? There is no response to the bug filed by alfred in the community so far. Mayuresh > > Li > >> OR we can keep it in Solaris (or even change it to a shared >> component) with the same argument as above (basic level of a11y >> support) and later work with the community to address these a11y >> issues and update the version in Solaris? >> >> This is important as to determine, whether we should go ahead with >> the ARC case or not ? >> >> Also, we, database sustaining, agreed to maintain wxWidgets in sfw >> gate, but we have very limited understanding of graphical toolkits >> and thus a11y support required for that. We would appreciate if we >> get help from your team to further work with the community. >> >> CC'ing Jim Gates, who agreed to sponsor the recent wxWidgets ARC case. >> >> Rgds >> Mayuresh >> >> Brian Cameron wrote: >>> >>> Alfred: >>> >>>>>> After checking the wxWidgets source code, there is no atk related >>>>>> implementation in wxWidgets. And it only has some basic level of >>>>>> A11Y support from GTK. I think this is an issue that needs to be >>>>>> raised in the wxWidgets community for enhancement. >>>>> >>>>> That's disappointing. Could we file bugs to alert them to the issues >>>>> we have found? >>>> Ticket 9785 is filed on wxWidgets for this. >>> >>> Thanks for doing this. >>> >>>>> I thought SQLite is already delivered into Solaris. Are you >>>>> saying we >>>>> don't build this wxWidgets feature? If so, then why is this feature >>>>> highlighted in the one-pager? We should say in the one-pager that we >>>>> aren't building this feature if we aren't building with it. >>>> As I understand, the SQlite support comes from a third-party >>>> wxwidgets class, not the default one. It's unlikely that SFW will >>>> build with this. So It's better to delete this description from >>>> one-pager. >>> >>> Makes sense. >>> >>>>> Yes, even if interfaces are delivered by us, we should still list >>>>> them >>>>> individually. Also, note that PNG, JPG, Tiff are not owned by us, >>>>> but >>>>> by SFW. >>>>> >>>>> I'd think we would at least want to build with PNG, JPEG, and TIFF >>>>> support. Any reason why we aren't? >>>> How about the package list for the GNOME 2.20 arc case: >>>> http://sac.sfbay/LSARC/2007/520/pkgmaps/? It contains SUNWjpg, >>>> SUNWpng, SUNWtiff. >>> >>> SFW owns them, but we deliver them. Some of our ARC case materials >>> therefore mention them. That's mostly because we aren't always careful >>> about removing information about these modules from the automatically >>> generated output that comes from the scripts we use to generate our >>> ARC materials. It doesn't mean we own them. >>> >>>>>> And also some other libraries such as SUNWlibms, SUNWlibC, >>>>>> SUNWcsl, SUNWcslr... To get this clear could also be helpful for >>>>>> other one pager preparation? >>>>> >>>>> We only do not need to list interfaces if they are Committed or >>>>> Standard. >>>> This sounds reasonable. >>>>> In other words, libraries like libc, do not need to be listed. I'm >>>>> not sure what SUNWlibms, or SUNWcsl are. Could you provide details? >>>> What I can get is from pkginfo command: >>>> SUNWlibms: Math & Microtasking Libraries >>> >>> I think this is stable. You'ld need to likely do a search on the >>> http://sac.eng website for the interfaces used by wxWidgets and see >>> how the interfaces are classified to be sure. Or ask John Fischer. >>> >>>> SUNWcsl: Core Solaris, (Shared Libs) >>> >>> This should be considered stable. >>> >>> Brian >> > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support [was Re: The current status of wxWidgets and itsdrafted one pager]" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-02.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.196]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m6U2mk7R000311 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:48:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by dm-uk-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m6U2mjvK023532 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:48:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m6U2mexE024240 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:48:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K4S00D01T2Q6000@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Li.Yuan@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:48:40 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.217.215] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K4S00M1ZT539V0E@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:48:40 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:46:34 +0800 From: Li Yuan Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support [was Re: The current status of wxWidgets and its drafted one pager] In-reply-to: <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> Sender: Li.Yuan@Sun.COM To: Mayuresh Nirhali Cc: Brian Cameron , Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates Message-id: <488FD60A.6030109@sun.com> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080701) Mayuresh Nirhali wrote: > Hello, > > As per the people involved in initial ARC case (wxWidgets as static > library for pgAdmin3), wxWidgets > was given okay on accessibility because it is based on GTK+ 2.0, which > confirms to basic level of a11y (mouse, kbd etc). > As it turns out, that wxWidgets is not *fully* section 508 compliant, > Does it mean that it should not exist in Solaris at all ? That depends on if there are block bugs about accessibility for xwWidgets. Before OpenSolaris comes out, if there isn't any block bug about accessibility for a project, it can be integrated into Solaris from accessibility side. If there are block bugs, the project should promise fixing these bugs before the release of Solaris. If there are still block bugs when Solaris releases, and the project really needs to be released with Solaris, waiver should be filed. But the policy of OpenSolaris is not clear to me. Since the release cycle of OpenSolaris is 6 months, and users can even get the newest version from IPS server before release, I doubt if the "plan" way still works. Li > OR we can keep it in Solaris (or even change it to a shared component) > with the same argument as above (basic level of a11y support) and > later work with the community to address these a11y issues and update > the version in Solaris? > > This is important as to determine, whether we should go ahead with the > ARC case or not ? > > Also, we, database sustaining, agreed to maintain wxWidgets in sfw > gate, but we have very limited understanding of graphical toolkits and > thus a11y support required for that. We would appreciate if we get > help from your team to further work with the community. > > CC'ing Jim Gates, who agreed to sponsor the recent wxWidgets ARC case. > > Rgds > Mayuresh > > Brian Cameron wrote: >> >> Alfred: >> >>>>> After checking the wxWidgets source code, there is no atk related >>>>> implementation in wxWidgets. And it only has some basic level of >>>>> A11Y support from GTK. I think this is an issue that needs to be >>>>> raised in the wxWidgets community for enhancement. >>>> >>>> That's disappointing. Could we file bugs to alert them to the issues >>>> we have found? >>> Ticket 9785 is filed on wxWidgets for this. >> >> Thanks for doing this. >> >>>> I thought SQLite is already delivered into Solaris. Are you saying we >>>> don't build this wxWidgets feature? If so, then why is this feature >>>> highlighted in the one-pager? We should say in the one-pager that we >>>> aren't building this feature if we aren't building with it. >>> As I understand, the SQlite support comes from a third-party >>> wxwidgets class, not the default one. It's unlikely that SFW will >>> build with this. So It's better to delete this description from >>> one-pager. >> >> Makes sense. >> >>>> Yes, even if interfaces are delivered by us, we should still list them >>>> individually. Also, note that PNG, JPG, Tiff are not owned by us, but >>>> by SFW. >>>> >>>> I'd think we would at least want to build with PNG, JPEG, and TIFF >>>> support. Any reason why we aren't? >>> How about the package list for the GNOME 2.20 arc case: >>> http://sac.sfbay/LSARC/2007/520/pkgmaps/? It contains SUNWjpg, >>> SUNWpng, SUNWtiff. >> >> SFW owns them, but we deliver them. Some of our ARC case materials >> therefore mention them. That's mostly because we aren't always careful >> about removing information about these modules from the automatically >> generated output that comes from the scripts we use to generate our >> ARC materials. It doesn't mean we own them. >> >>>>> And also some other libraries such as SUNWlibms, SUNWlibC, >>>>> SUNWcsl, SUNWcslr... To get this clear could also be helpful for >>>>> other one pager preparation? >>>> >>>> We only do not need to list interfaces if they are Committed or >>>> Standard. >>> This sounds reasonable. >>>> In other words, libraries like libc, do not need to be listed. I'm >>>> not sure what SUNWlibms, or SUNWcsl are. Could you provide details? >>> What I can get is from pkginfo command: >>> SUNWlibms: Math & Microtasking Libraries >> >> I think this is stable. You'ld need to likely do a search on the >> http://sac.eng website for the interfaces used by wxWidgets and see >> how the interfaces are classified to be sure. Or ask John Fischer. >> >>> SUNWcsl: Core Solaris, (Shared Libs) >> >> This should be considered stable. >> >> Brian > --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822; name="Re: wxWidgets a11y support [was Re: The current status of wxWidgets and itsdrafted one pager]" Return-path: Received: from dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (dm-uk-01.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.101.115]) by serinus.UK.Sun.COM (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/CTE 3.0) with ESMTP id m6TDwN38000546 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:58:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by dm-uk-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m6TDwMsD010375 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:58:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m6TDwFaU028582 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:58:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0K4R00401TFU9N00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM) for jg97986@mail-gmp03.UK.Sun.COM (ORCPT James.Gates@Sun.COM); Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:58:15 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.227.167] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0K4R00BFZTH2REE9@mail-apac.sun.com>; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:58:15 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:26:15 +0530 From: Mayuresh Nirhali Subject: Re: wxWidgets a11y support [was Re: The current status of wxWidgets and its drafted one pager] In-reply-to: <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> Sender: Mayuresh.Nirhali@Sun.COM To: Brian Cameron Cc: Alfred Peng , jds-dev@Sun.COM, James Gates Message-id: <488F217F.5000805@Sun.COM> X-Envelope-from: James.Gates@Sun.COM X-Envelope-to: @emea3-mail1.uk.sun.com:jg97986@emea3-mail1.UK.Sun.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <487F9D36.4080905@sun.com> <4885F37C.5000308@sun.com> <4886EAAA.5010101@sun.com> <4888A267.1000700@sun.com> <4889AAA1.9020305@sun.com> <4889DF49.3080001@sun.com> <488A0634.7000604@sun.com> <488A097B.6020707@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070423) Hello, As per the people involved in initial ARC case (wxWidgets as static library for pgAdmin3), wxWidgets was given okay on accessibility because it is based on GTK+ 2.0, which confirms to basic level of a11y (mouse, kbd etc). As it turns out, that wxWidgets is not *fully* section 508 compliant, Does it mean that it should not exist in Solaris at all ? OR we can keep it in Solaris (or even change it to a shared component) with the same argument as above (basic level of a11y support) and later work with the community to address these a11y issues and update the version in Solaris? This is important as to determine, whether we should go ahead with the ARC case or not ? Also, we, database sustaining, agreed to maintain wxWidgets in sfw gate, but we have very limited understanding of graphical toolkits and thus a11y support required for that. We would appreciate if we get help from your team to further work with the community. CC'ing Jim Gates, who agreed to sponsor the recent wxWidgets ARC case. Rgds Mayuresh Brian Cameron wrote: > > Alfred: > >>>> After checking the wxWidgets source code, there is no atk related >>>> implementation in wxWidgets. And it only has some basic level of >>>> A11Y support from GTK. I think this is an issue that needs to be >>>> raised in the wxWidgets community for enhancement. >>> >>> That's disappointing. Could we file bugs to alert them to the issues >>> we have found? >> Ticket 9785 is filed on wxWidgets for this. > > Thanks for doing this. > >>> I thought SQLite is already delivered into Solaris. Are you saying we >>> don't build this wxWidgets feature? If so, then why is this feature >>> highlighted in the one-pager? We should say in the one-pager that we >>> aren't building this feature if we aren't building with it. >> As I understand, the SQlite support comes from a third-party >> wxwidgets class, not the default one. It's unlikely that SFW will >> build with this. So It's better to delete this description from >> one-pager. > > Makes sense. > >>> Yes, even if interfaces are delivered by us, we should still list them >>> individually. Also, note that PNG, JPG, Tiff are not owned by us, but >>> by SFW. >>> >>> I'd think we would at least want to build with PNG, JPEG, and TIFF >>> support. Any reason why we aren't? >> How about the package list for the GNOME 2.20 arc case: >> http://sac.sfbay/LSARC/2007/520/pkgmaps/? It contains SUNWjpg, >> SUNWpng, SUNWtiff. > > SFW owns them, but we deliver them. Some of our ARC case materials > therefore mention them. That's mostly because we aren't always careful > about removing information about these modules from the automatically > generated output that comes from the scripts we use to generate our > ARC materials. It doesn't mean we own them. > >>>> And also some other libraries such as SUNWlibms, SUNWlibC, SUNWcsl, >>>> SUNWcslr... To get this clear could also be helpful for other one >>>> pager preparation? >>> >>> We only do not need to list interfaces if they are Committed or >>> Standard. >> This sounds reasonable. >>> In other words, libraries like libc, do not need to be listed. I'm >>> not sure what SUNWlibms, or SUNWcsl are. Could you provide details? >> What I can get is from pkginfo command: >> SUNWlibms: Math & Microtasking Libraries > > I think this is stable. You'ld need to likely do a search on the > http://sac.eng website for the interfaces used by wxWidgets and see > how the interfaces are classified to be sure. Or ask John Fischer. > >> SUNWcsl: Core Solaris, (Shared Libs) > > This should be considered stable. > > Brian --Boundary_(ID_qLdavbv4Ogn2MlZf8aTjcw)--