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This is a system message. --END+PSEUDO-- From sacadmin Mon Aug 25 13:58:00 2008 Received: from sr1-umpk-16.sfbay.sun.com (sr1-umpk-16.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.66]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7PKw07t023978; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sr1-umpk-16.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sr1-umpk-16.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7PKvxLN035465; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from johnf@localhost) by sr1-umpk-16.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m7PKvxsi035461; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:57:59 -0700 (PDT) From: John Fischer Message-Id: <200808252057.m7PKvxsi035461@sr1-umpk-16.sfbay.sun.com> To: LSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: Stefan.Teleman@Sun.Com Subject: QT4 Framework [LSARC/2008/550 FastTrack timeout 09/01/2008] Content-Length: 551 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000001 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.66 04/17/08 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: QT4 Framework 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Stefan Teleman 1.3 Date of This Document: 25 August, 2008 4. Technical Description See the case directory for more detail 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: SFW 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From John.Fischer@sun.com Mon Aug 25 14:08:56 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7PL8tOo024257 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7PL8mb7021546 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:08:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6600909DERW700@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K66002W7DERJ020@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7PL8o88029854 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:08:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6600801CTVK600@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Fischer@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:08:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 129.145.154.66 ([129.145.154.66]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6600AM3DEHXEC0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:08:41 -0700 From: John Fischer Subject: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: LSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Stefan.Teleman@sun.com Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.301 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_JDxANVMZ0+AxoXaw+RGAvA)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 21707 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000002 --Boundary_(ID_JDxANVMZ0+AxoXaw+RGAvA) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT All, I am sponsoring this fast track for Stefan Teleman of the SFW group. The case directory contains this proposal and a list of deliverables (QT4-Appendix-1.txt). I have set the timeout for Monday, September 1st, 2008. The project proposes to deliver the QT4 Framework in a Micro/Patch release of Solaris. The QT4 Framework is the cross-platform application development framework toolkit from Trolltech. The QT4 Framework is the base toolkit used in KDE. It is at a similar layer as GTK+ is for GNOME. Thanks, John --Boundary_(ID_JDxANVMZ0+AxoXaw+RGAvA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ASCII; name=proposal.txt Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=proposal.txt ? Including the Trolltech QT4 Framework with Solaris Stefan Teleman 25 August 2008 1. Summary and motivation QT4 [1] is the next-generation cross-platform Application Development Framework Toolkit developed and maintained by Trolltech, ASA [3]. Trolltech's flagship product, QT4 is written in C++, and represents the current research and development achievements at Trolltech. [2] QT4 is used as a Foundation Application Development Framework in numerous and highly specialized software development fields, such as: medical imaging, oil and gas exploration, computer graphics animations, bio-genetics research, chemistry and pharmaceutical research, and many other fields of specialized technical computing. QT4/X11 uses Xlib. It does not use Xt [ the X Toolkit ], Motif, Athena, or any other toolkit. QT/Jambi [4] is a complementary framework to QT4, written in Java. QT/Jambi will be discussed in a separate ARC Case. QT4 is supported on the following platforms: - UNIX: Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, HP-UX/PA-RISC, HP-UX/Itanium, AIX and IRIX - MS Windows: 2000, XP and Vista - Macintosh: Mac OS X This Fasttrack proposes the integration of the latest QT4 Release, QT 4.4.1. This case seeks Micro/Patch release binding. 2. Technical issues 2.1. Key objects The following table is an abbreviated enumeration of QT4's delivered objects. For the purposes of maintaining brevity, a full and complete list of all the objects delivered by this QT4 Integration will be provided separately, in the ARC Case Supporting Materials directory, Appendix-1. For the purposes of this ARC Case, it is to be assumed that, for any 32-bit executable, or shared object, a corresponding 64-bit object will be delivered by this Integration, in the Standard Solaris ISA directory location, unless the functionality provided by the 64-bit object is unnecessary, in which case the 64-bit object will be omitted from this Integration. /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/assistant /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/designer /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/linguist /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/lrelease /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/lupdate /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/moc /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/pixeltool /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qdbus /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qdbuscpp2xml /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qdbusviewer /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qdbusxml2cpp /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qmake /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qt3to4 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qtconfig /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/qtdemo /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/rcc /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/uic /usr/qt4/4.4.1/bin/uic3 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/doc/html/*.html /usr/qt4/4.4.1/doc/html/images/*.png /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/Qt/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/Qt3Support/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtAssistant/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtCore/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtDBus/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtDesigner/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtGui/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtNetwork/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtOpenGL/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtScript/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtSql/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtSvg/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtTest/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtUiTools/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include/QtXml/ /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQt3Support.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtAssistantClient.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtCore.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtDBus.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtDesigner.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtDesignerComponents.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtGui.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtNetwork.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtOpenGL.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtScript.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtSql.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtSvg.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtTest.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/libQtXml.so.4.4.1 /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/accessible/libqtaccessiblecompatwidgets.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/accessible/libqtaccessiblewidgets.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/codecs/libqcncodecs.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/codecs/libqjpcodecs.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/codecs/libqkrcodecs.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/codecs/libqtwcodecs.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/designer/libarthurplugin.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/designer/libcontainerextension.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/designer/libcustomwidgetplugin.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/designer/libqt3supportwidgets.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/designer/libtaskmenuextension.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/designer/libworldtimeclockplugin.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/iconengines/libqsvg.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/imageformats/libqgif.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/imageformats/libqjpeg.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/imageformats/libqmng.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/imageformats/libqsvg.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/imageformats/libqtiff.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/inputmethods/libqimsw-multi.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/phonon_backend/libphonon_gstreamer.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/sqldrivers/libqsqlite.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/sqldrivers/libqsqlmysql.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/sqldrivers/libqsqlodbc.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/plugins/sqldrivers/libqsqlpsql.so /usr/qt4/4.4.1/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc/qmake.conf /usr/qt4/4.4.1/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc/qplatformdefs.h /usr/qt4/4.4.1/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc-64/qmake.conf /usr/qt4/4.4.1/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc-64/qplatformdefs.h QT4 is thread-safe, 64-bit clean and largefile aware. The 64-bit QT4 libraries, the associated loadable shared objects [ plugins ] and the necessary 64-bit executables will be delivered with this Integration. 2.2. C++ ABI Considerations The C++ Language Standard [ ISO/IEC 14882:2003 ] [8] did not define an ABI for the C++ Programming Language. Although several efforts aimed at defining a common C++ ABI have existed in the past, no consensus was ever reached. As a direct result of this lack of an unified C++ ABI, binary object code emitted by different C++ compilers is not interchangeable, and is likely to be binary incompatible across different C++ Compilers, or different Minor or Major releases of the same C++ Compiler, or across different C++ runtime environments. Simply put, binary object code resulting from the compilation of C++ Language code is dependent on, and tied to, the compiler emitting it, and to the compiler which has emitted the binary object code for the C++ runtime, and for the Standard C++ Library. The PSARC Opinion from PSARC/2002/348 [6] is the Defining Reference for this ARC Case. PSARC 2002/348 mandates that all C++ software which exposes public API's in Solaris must be compiled with the Sun Studio Compilers, and with Version 5 of the Sun C++ ABI. For the purposes of delivering and maintaining a coherent, consistent and compatible C++ ABI, this Integration of QT4 will be built with the Sun Studio compiler suite, which has maintained C++ ABI compatibility since Release 5.0 [ Workshop 5 ]. [7] [8] The Sun Studio compilers are supported by Trolltech ASA. 2.3. Programmatic facilities QT4 follows the "component object development model", suitable for an object-oriented framework. In addition, QT4 has extended the inherently statically typed C++ Object Model by implementing the QObject base type as the "Root Object" of [ almost ] all QT4 types. By design, and unlike Smalltalk or Java, C++ does not provide a toplevel "object" type functioning as root of the inheritance graph. The omission of this "root object" type from the design of the C++ Language was intentional: one of C++'s stated goals was type safety, and the implementation of such an Object Type, if deemed necessary, was delegated to the writer of the application, or framework. A direct consequence of this design decision is that, in C++, object types are not related to each other by language design [ unlike Smalltalk or Java ]. As a result, in C++, object types can only "talk" to their "relatives" if a relationship already exists [ which assumes that the objects involved in sending or receiving messages are related, or can type-convert ], or, absent such a relationship, a message-passing facility between statically typed, unrelated object types has been devised. One approach to solving this problem is described in the "Design Patterns [ GoF ] Book [5], and a canonical example of such a double-dispatch implementation are the Mediator and Observer Patterns. The QT4 Object Model implements the "root object" pattern, and the Message Passing facility is achieved via QT4's signal/slot mechanism. QT4's signal/slot mechanism is type safe: the method signature of a signal must match the method signature of the receiving slot. Method signature mistmatches are detected by the compiler, at compile-time. Signals and slots are loosely coupled: an Object Type emitting a signal does not know, nor does it care, which slot receives its signal: the connection between a signal and a slot must be explicitly defined by the application. [6] The runtime signal/slot type safety mechanism is enforced by the supporting meta-object generated by the Meta-Object Compiler [ moc ]. The Meta-Object Compiler generates additional methods for each particular object type's signal/slot declarations. QT4 provides a rich feature set of client-server connectivity and external component integration facilities: database connectivity, either via UnixODBC [11] plugins, or via specific database engine plugins: MySQL5 [12], PostgreSQL [13], SQLite3 [14], printing [ via CUPS [10] ], and Desktop IPC integration [ via D-BUS [15] ]. QT4 provides a QT3 compatibility layer, and a QT3 migration toolkit. [5] There are no plans for integrating QT3 in Solaris at this time. 2.4. Language Bindings QT4 is written in a subset of Standard C++ [8] which has been known to be portable across all the platforms and compilers supported by Trolltech ASA. Sun Studio is one of the supported compiler sets. A complete list of all platforms and compilers supported by Trolltech ASA is available at http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/supported-platforms.html. [17] 2.5. Internationalization QT4 supports Internationalization and multibyte characters by default, via full Unicode [16] support [ QT4 supports both Unicode and non-Unicode fonts]. The "linguist" QT4 application is an intuitive GUI application which reads extracted source text, and provides context information ready for translation. The "linguist" application will output a translation file ready for internationalized application use. QT4 provides on-the-spot editing support for the X Input Method Extension. 2.6. Documentation The canonical QT4 release delivers a complete documentation set in HTML format. QT4 does not provide documentation in UNIX Manual format. A generic UNIX man page [ qt4.4qt ] providing pointers to the installed HTML Documentation will be provided with this Integration. The HTML QT4 documentation is accessible either via a Web Browser, or via QT4's 'assistant' application. 3. Interfaces 3.1. Interface Stability QT4 maintains API and ABI compatibility between Micro Releases, but not between Minor and/or Major Releases. However, Trolltech ASA provides API and ABI compatibility guarantees within the boundaries of a QT4 Micro Release. It is very likely that several QT4 Integrations, which may be binary incompatible with each other, will have to coexist: Developer Preview Releases of QT 4.4 and QT 4.5/4.6 are already available for download from Trolltech. This Fasttrack proposes an overall "Uncommitted" Interface Stability Classification for QT4. Considering the ABI Micro Release Stability guarantee provided by Trolltech ASA, a "Committed" Interface Stability Classification would have been appropriate. However, QT4's dependency on External/Evolving/Uncommitted Interfaces makes an overall "Committed" Interface Classification inaproppriate. Furthermore, QT4 will follow a directory layout structure modeled after Perl 5 [ PSARC/1999/192 [7] ]: /usr/qt4/[version]/bin /usr/qt4/[version]/bin/${MACH64}/ /usr/qt4/[version]/lib /usr/qt4/[version]/lib/${MACH64}/ /usr/qt4/[version]/include [ ... ] 3.2. Imported Interfaces QT4 imports interfaces from the Standard C Library, Standard Math Library, and the POSIX Threads Library. In addition, QT4 imports Interfaces from the Standard C++ Library, the C++ Runtime Library, the Socket Library, the Network Services Library, and a number of X11, OpenGL and graphics libraries [ LibPNG, LibTIFF, LibJPEG, LibMNG ]. QT4 also imports interfaces from CUPS [10] UnixODBC [11] and D-BUS [15]. Optionally, and a highly desirable feature set, QT4 can directly import interfaces from MySQL5 [12], PostgreSQL [13] and SQLite3 [14], bypassing UnixODBC [11] altogether. NAME STABILITY NOTES SUNWlibC Committed LSARC/2004/284 LibPNG Evolving LSARC/2003/085 LibTIFF Evolving LSARC/2003/085 LibJPEG Evolving LSARC/2003/085 LibMNG Uncommitted PSARC/2008/072 LibXPM Evolving PSARC/2001/060 Z-Lib Committed PSARC/2006/537 LibFreetype2 External LSARC/2005/397 LibFontconfig External LSARC/2003/273 LibXFT External LSARC/2003/274 LibX11 External LSARC/2004/685 LibXRender External LSARC/2004/685 LibXRandR External LSARC/2004/685 CUPS Uncommitted PSARC/2008/130 UnixODBC Uncommitted LSARC/2007/684 D-BUS External LSARC/2006/368 SQLite3 Uncommitted PSARC/2008/120 MySQL5 Uncommitted LSARC/2007/608 MySQL5 [ 64-bit ] Uncommitted LSARC/2008/150 PostgreSQL 8.3 Uncommitted LSARC/2008/004 PostgreSQL [ 64-bit ] Uncommitted LSARC/2007/553 OpenSSL Uncommitted PSARC/2003/500 OpenSSL [ 64-bit ] Uncommitted PSARC/2004/768 GStreamer Uncommitted LSARC/2004/713 3.3. Exported Interfaces For the purposes of this document, the abbreviation [$QT4] refers to the toplevel directory location of a particular QT4 [ Major.Minor.Micro ] Integration. NAME STABILITY NOTES SUNWqt441core Uncommitted Package Name SUNWqt441demo Uncommitted Package Name SUNWqt441doc Uncommitted Package Name SUNWqt441usr Uncommitted Package Name [$QT4]/bin/assistant Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/designer Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/linguist Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/lrelease Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/lupdate Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/moc Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/pixeltool Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qdbus Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qdbuscpp2xml Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qdbusviewer Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qdbusxml2cpp Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qmake Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qt3to4 Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qtconfig Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/qtdemo Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/rcc Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/uic Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/uic3 Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/designer Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/pixeltool Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/qdbus Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/qdbuscpp2xml Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/qdbusviewer Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/qdbusxml2cpp Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/qt3to4 Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/qtconfig Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/bin/${MACH64}/qtdemo Uncommitted Executable location [$QT4]/doc/html/*.html Uncommitted HTML Documentation [$QT4]/doc/html/images/*.png Uncommitted Documentation Graphics [$QT4]/include/Qt/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/Qt3Support/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtAssistant/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtCore/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtDBus/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtDesigner/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtGui/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtNetwork/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtOpenGL/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtScript/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtSql/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtSvg/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtTest/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtUiTools/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtWebKit/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtXml/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/include/QtXmlPatterns/ Uncommitted Header files [$QT4]/lib/libQt3Support.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQt3Support.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtAssistantClient.so.4.4.1 Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtAssistantClient.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtCore.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtCore.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtDBus.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtDBus.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtDesigner.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtDesigner.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtDesignerComponents.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtDesignerComponents.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtGui.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtGui.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtNetwork.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtNetwork.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtOpenGL.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtOpenGL.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtScript.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtScript.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtSql.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtSql.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtSvg.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtSvg.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtTest.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtTest.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtWebKit.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtWebKit.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtXml.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtXml.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/libQtXmlPatterns.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/libQtXmlPatterns.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/lib/${MACH64}/*.so.4.4.1 Uncommitted Shared Library [$QT4]/lib/${MACH64}/*.so.4 Uncommitted SONAME [$QT4]/plugins/accessible/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/plugins/codecs/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/plugins/designer/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/plugins/iconengines/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/plugins/imageformats/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/plugins/inputmethods/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/plugins/sqldrivers/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/plugins/${MACH64}/*/*.so Project Private QT4 Plugins [$QT4]/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc/qmake.conf Uncommitted QT4 qmake compiler configuration [ 32-bit ] [$QT4]/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc/qplatformdefs.h Project Private QT4 Platform-specific header file [$QT4]/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc-64/qmake.conf Uncommitted QT4 qmake compiler configuration [ 64-bit ] [$QT4]/share/mkspecs/solaris-cc-64/qplatformdefs.h Project Private QT4 Platform-specific header file [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/danish.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/dutch.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/finnish.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/french.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/german.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/italian.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/japanese.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/norwegian.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/polish.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/russian.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File [$QT4]/share/phrasebooks/swedish.qph Project Private QT4 Phrasebook File 4. References [1] http://trolltech.com/products/qt [2] http://trolltech.com/pdf/qt43-whitepaper-a4.pdf [3] http://trolltech.com/ [4] http://trolltech.com/products/qt/jambi/ [5] http://trolltech.com/products/qt/qt3 [6] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2002/ PSARC/2002/348 [7] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/1999/ PSARC/1999/192 [8] http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/ [9] Sun C++ ABI 5.0: LSARC/1994/323 LSARC/1997/150 LSARC/2000/211 et seq. [10] http://www.cups.org/ [11] http://www.unixodbc.org/ [12] http://www.mysql.com/ [13] http://www.postgresql.org/ [14] http://www.sqlite.org/ [15] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus [16] http://www.unicode.org/ [17] http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/supported-platforms.html --Boundary_(ID_JDxANVMZ0+AxoXaw+RGAvA)-- From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Tue Aug 26 03:27:16 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7QARGVS015340 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7QARFFN023364 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K670040FEDE6U00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6700JP0EDC7490@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7QARCWj014125 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:27:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6700501DDV3C00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:27:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6700HSKED8UV90@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:27:10 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:27:08 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: John.Fischer@sun.com Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com, Stefan.Teleman@sun.com Message-id: <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 1614 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000003 Does it really make sense to have all of QT hidden away in /usr/qt4 ? I was expecting at least some things like include files or libraries to be under /usr/include and /usr/lib respectively. My concern is how are autoconf, and the like, scripts that need to find QT libraries and includes going to find it ? Are we expecting that everyone will know to do something like this: ./configure --with-qt-include=/usr/qt4/4.4.1/include \ --with-qt-libs=/usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/ Is there no pkg-config .pc file for QT that can be placed in /usr/lib/pkgconfig to help with this ? Is this the common layout on Linux based distributions where GNOME is considered the primary desktop rather than KDE ? What is they layout when KDE is the primary desktop ? > This Fasttrack proposes an overall "Uncommitted" Interface > Stability Classification for QT4. Considering the ABI Micro > Release Stability guarantee provided by Trolltech ASA, a > "Committed" Interface Stability Classification would have been > appropriate. However, QT4's dependency on > External/Evolving/Uncommitted Interfaces makes an overall > "Committed" Interface Classification inaproppriate. That doesn't follow. Just because you have lower classified dependencies doesn't mean you can't be higher than them. That is the definition of what we do in ARC. Everything is built on something of a lower classification at some level. So if this really could be Committed other than for the incorrect assumption on the dependencies it should be Committed. OpenSSL is not Uncommitted it is "Contracted External". -- Darren J Moffat From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Tue Aug 26 11:18:18 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7QIIHgQ002345 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7QIIDbq034383 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6800E0506HC800@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6800FEK06G48E0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7QIIGu0019199 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6700C01XP6G900@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from almas.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.106.93]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6800I9605P5L60@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:17:49 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Stefan.Teleman@sun.com Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48B448CD.4050701@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071203) Content-Length: 669 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000004 Some small corrections to your imported interface table: > LibX11 External LSARC/2004/685 libX11 is Committed (previously Standard), and pre-dates ARCs, though you could reference one of the cases to update it, such as PSARC 1992/077, 1998/299 or 2008/062. > LibXRender External LSARC/2004/685 > LibXRandR External LSARC/2004/685 There is no LSARC 2004/685, there is PSARC 2004/685, but that is an Xorg server case, not covering the libraries. These should be: libXrender Volatile LSARC/2007/193 libXrandr Volatile PSARC/2007/430 -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Stefan.Teleman@sun.com Tue Aug 26 11:35:52 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7QIZqVO002920 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7QIZmMa040020; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K680000R0ZOJU00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6800LOU0ZM1Q60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.110] (punchin-client-10-7-251-110.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.110]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7QIZjXe027421; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:35:45 -0400 From: Stefan Teleman Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Reply-to: Stefan Teleman Message-id: <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Content-Length: 2312 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000005 Darren J Moffat wrote: > Does it really make sense to have all of QT hidden away in /usr/qt4 ? I > was expecting at least some things like include files or libraries to be > under /usr/include and /usr/lib respectively. > > My concern is how are autoconf, and the like, scripts that need to find > QT libraries and includes going to find it ? Are we expecting that > everyone will know to do something like this: > > ./configure --with-qt-include=/usr/qt4/4.4.1/include \ > --with-qt-libs=/usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/ > > Is there no pkg-config .pc file for QT that can be placed in > /usr/lib/pkgconfig to help with this ? PKG_CONFIG_PATH can be set to /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/pkgconfig:${PKG_CONFIG_PATH}. Or, one can say --with-qt-include=${QTDIR}/include --with-qt-libs=${QTDIR}/lib > Is this the common layout on Linux based distributions where GNOME is > considered the primary desktop rather than KDE ? What is they layout > when KDE is the primary desktop ? SUSE organizes as /usr/lib/qt3 /usr/lib/qt4, etc The question is: what happens when we want to include a newer version of QT (QT 4.5.0 is already out), which comes with newer and likeable features ? The two versions have to be able to coexist someohow, without creating conflicts. > >> This Fasttrack proposes an overall "Uncommitted" Interface >> Stability Classification for QT4. Considering the ABI Micro >> Release Stability guarantee provided by Trolltech ASA, a >> "Committed" Interface Stability Classification would have been >> appropriate. However, QT4's dependency on >> External/Evolving/Uncommitted Interfaces makes an overall >> "Committed" Interface Classification inaproppriate. > > That doesn't follow. Just because you have lower classified > dependencies doesn't mean you can't be higher than them. That is the > definition of what we do in ARC. Everything is built on something of a > lower classification at some level. So if this really could be > Committed other than for the incorrect assumption on the dependencies it > should be Committed. It can't be Committed because [1] it doesn't really implement any known Industry standard, and [2] we don't control QT's Interface Stability level. -- Stefan Teleman Sun Microsystems, Inc. Stefan.Teleman@Sun.COM From Laszlo.Peter@sun.com Tue Aug 26 23:06:33 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7R66W50025584 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7R66Vh2033026 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6800201WYU4E00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6800E05WYT4Y40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7R66TAJ010686 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:06:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6800B01WVK5X00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Laszlo.Peter@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:06:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([60.234.117.94]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6800C7YWYP9L00@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:06:28 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:06:24 +1200 From: "Laszlo (Laca) Peter" Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> Sender: Laszlo.Peter@sun.com To: Stefan Teleman Cc: Darren J Moffat , John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Reply-to: laca@sun.com Message-id: <1219817184.8448.17.camel@tecra> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 563 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000006 On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 14:35 -0400, Stefan Teleman wrote: > > Is there no pkg-config .pc file for QT that can be placed in > > /usr/lib/pkgconfig to help with this ? > > PKG_CONFIG_PATH can be set to /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/pkgconfig: > ${PKG_CONFIG_PATH}. > > Or, one can say --with-qt-include=${QTDIR}/include --with-qt-libs= > ${QTDIR}/lib The problem is that for people who naively try to build Qt apps on Solaris, it will seem that there is no Qt on Solaris. It would be really nice to symlink the pc files of the latest version to /usr/lib/pkgconfig. Laca From Stefan.Teleman@Sun.COM Tue Aug 26 23:12:43 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7R6CdNW025627 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7R6CMfT024521; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:12:31 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6800A01X8SXE00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:12:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6800978X8RZ720@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:12:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.7.251.110] (punchin-client-10-7-251-110.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.110]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7R6CQdO009187; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:12:26 -0400 From: Stefan Teleman Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <1219817184.8448.17.camel@tecra> To: laca@Sun.COM Cc: Darren J Moffat , John.Fischer@Sun.COM, LSARC-ext@Sun.COM Reply-to: Stefan Teleman Message-id: <48B4F04A.20905@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <1219817184.8448.17.camel@tecra> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Content-Length: 802 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000007 Laszlo (Laca) Peter wrote: > On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 14:35 -0400, Stefan Teleman wrote: >>> Is there no pkg-config .pc file for QT that can be placed in >>> /usr/lib/pkgconfig to help with this ? >> PKG_CONFIG_PATH can be set to /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/pkgconfig: >> ${PKG_CONFIG_PATH}. >> >> Or, one can say --with-qt-include=${QTDIR}/include --with-qt-libs= >> ${QTDIR}/lib > > The problem is that for people who naively try to build Qt apps > on Solaris, it will seem that there is no Qt on Solaris. > It would be really nice to symlink the pc files of the latest > version to /usr/lib/pkgconfig. Oh, that is easy to do. I will alter the Case to reflect this change + Alan Coopersmith's Xrender/XrandR Case number changes. --Stefan -- Stefan Teleman Sun Microsystems, Inc. Stefan.Teleman@Sun.COM From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 27 02:29:52 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7R9TpgK001324 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7R9TkkB003718 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:29:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K690020F6DOG900@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:29:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900EUB6DNFQD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7R9Tkl7017178 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:29:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K69006016676I00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:29:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6900GH46DBS1B0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:29:37 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:29:35 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Stefan Teleman Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 3293 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000008 Stefan Teleman wrote: > > > Darren J Moffat wrote: >> Does it really make sense to have all of QT hidden away in /usr/qt4 ? >> I was expecting at least some things like include files or libraries >> to be under /usr/include and /usr/lib respectively. >> >> My concern is how are autoconf, and the like, scripts that need to >> find QT libraries and includes going to find it ? Are we expecting >> that everyone will know to do something like this: >> >> ./configure --with-qt-include=/usr/qt4/4.4.1/include \ >> --with-qt-libs=/usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/ >> >> Is there no pkg-config .pc file for QT that can be placed in >> /usr/lib/pkgconfig to help with this ? > > PKG_CONFIG_PATH can be set to > /usr/qt4/4.4.1/lib/pkgconfig:${PKG_CONFIG_PATH}. That assumes I already now where it is hidden, which kind of defeats the part of point of pkgconfig The pkg-config file should be in /usr/lib/pkgconfig we already set precedence for this in other cases. I have no problem with providing multiple pkgconfig files under the path you gave but the canonical version of qt should have one in /usr/lib/pkgconfig > Or, one can say --with-qt-include=${QTDIR}/include > --with-qt-libs=${QTDIR}/lib $QTDIR isn't defined in my environment. >> Is this the common layout on Linux based distributions where GNOME is >> considered the primary desktop rather than KDE ? What is they layout >> when KDE is the primary desktop ? > > SUSE organizes as /usr/lib/qt3 /usr/lib/qt4, etc where are the include files on SUSE ? Why is your layout better than the SUSE one ? What problems does it solve that their layout doesn't ? > The question is: what happens when we want to include a newer version of > QT (QT 4.5.0 is already out), which comes with newer and likeable > features ? The two versions have to be able to coexist someohow, without > creating conflicts. That layout is okay for that but please provide the pkgconfig .pc file in a place that is found by default for the recommended version (currently 4.4.1). >>> This Fasttrack proposes an overall "Uncommitted" Interface >>> Stability Classification for QT4. Considering the ABI Micro >>> Release Stability guarantee provided by Trolltech ASA, a >>> "Committed" Interface Stability Classification would have been >>> appropriate. However, QT4's dependency on >>> External/Evolving/Uncommitted Interfaces makes an overall >>> "Committed" Interface Classification inaproppriate. >> >> That doesn't follow. Just because you have lower classified >> dependencies doesn't mean you can't be higher than them. That is the >> definition of what we do in ARC. Everything is built on something of >> a lower classification at some level. So if this really could be >> Committed other than for the incorrect assumption on the dependencies >> it should be Committed. > > It can't be Committed because [1] it doesn't really implement any known > Industry standard, That isn't the definition of committed. > and [2] we don't control QT's Interface Stability level. Then what was all that text above about ? It can be Committed if the project team believes that the upstream behaves in a manner suitable. The text you provided indicates you do think that. -- Darren J Moffat From Glynn.Foster@sun.com Wed Aug 27 02:50:18 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7R9oHPQ001501 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7R9oDxv020482 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:50:16 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K69003017BSYC00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K69002A17BRH820@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7R9oFWv017584 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:50:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6900M017481P00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Glynn.Foster@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([122.57.41.66]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6900B7L7BP6W50@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:50:12 +1200 From: Glynn Foster Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> Sender: Glynn.Foster@sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Stefan Teleman , John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1E6FC9EE-F34B-4DBD-88CC-94DFD6EF690C@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 631 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000009 On 27/08/2008, at 9:29 PM, Darren J Moffat wrote: >>> Is this the common layout on Linux based distributions where GNOME >>> is >>> considered the primary desktop rather than KDE ? What is they >>> layout >>> when KDE is the primary desktop ? >> >> SUSE organizes as /usr/lib/qt3 /usr/lib/qt4, etc > > where are the include files on SUSE ? > > Why is your layout better than the SUSE one ? What problems does it > solve that their layout doesn't ? Fedora puts things into /usr/lib for the most part, with some versioning for the plugins and phrasebooks - http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/rpminfo?rpmID=697994 Glynn From Stefan.Teleman@sun.com Wed Aug 27 09:03:21 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RG3Kb0010565 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RG37Pp003792; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K690062HOLHTD00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900ML5OLFVA70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.7.251.110] (punchin-client-10-7-251-110.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.110]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7RG3FDj020324; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:03:14 -0400 From: Stefan Teleman Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Reply-to: Stefan Teleman Message-id: <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Content-Length: 2927 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000010 Darren J Moffat wrote: > The pkg-config file should be in /usr/lib/pkgconfig we already set > precedence for this in other cases. I have no problem with providing > multiple pkgconfig files under the path you gave but the canonical > version of qt should have one in /usr/lib/pkgconfig Which version of QT is the "canonical version of qt" ? 4.4.1 ? 4.5.0 ? Trolltech makes no claims as to any of QT4's versions being "canonical". >> Or, one can say --with-qt-include=${QTDIR}/include >> --with-qt-libs=${QTDIR}/lib > > $QTDIR isn't defined in my environment. >>> Is this the common layout on Linux based distributions where GNOME is >>> considered the primary desktop rather than KDE ? What is they layout >>> when KDE is the primary desktop ? >> >> SUSE organizes as /usr/lib/qt3 /usr/lib/qt4, etc > > where are the include files on SUSE ? In /usr/include, which I believe is inconsistent, and wrong. > Why is your layout better than the SUSE one ? What problems does it > solve that their layout doesn't ? The layout proposed here follows the layout established by the Perl ARC Case PSARC/1999/192. I don't know if it's "better" than Linux, I don't particularily consider Linux a benchmark for adjudicating the soundness of directory layouts, and I prefer following established precedents which have been sanctioned and approved by the ARCs. >> It can't be Committed because [1] it doesn't really implement any >> known Industry standard, > > That isn't the definition of committed. http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/interface-taxonomy/ It appears to be one of the attributes to be taken into consideration when assigning a Committed stability level to an Interface, or a group of Interfaces. Given that QT does not implement a known Industry Standard, that's strike one against Committed. > > and [2] we don't control QT's Interface Stability level. > > Then what was all that text above about ? It can be Committed if the > project team believes that the upstream behaves in a manner suitable. > The text you provided indicates you do think that. Considering the ABI Micro Release Stability guarantee provided by Trolltech ASA, a "Committed" Interface Stability Classification would have been appropriate. The project team does not believe that, nor do the ARC Case Documents imply that the project team believes that. The ARC Case documents clearly states that this ABI stability guarantee is provided by Trolltech, and this guarantee only applies to Micro releases. Is an interface stability guarantee which is effective only for Micro releases appropriate for "Committed" ? I do not believe that it is. We are saying that "QT 4.4.1 will be ABI and API compatible with 4.4.3, but not with 4.5.0". This does not qualify for "Committed". That's strike two against Committed. --Stefan -- Stefan Teleman Sun Microsystems, Inc. Stefan.Teleman@Sun.COM From Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM Wed Aug 27 09:15:56 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RGFth6011328 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RGFsr6012964 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900L11P6JGC00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900DEZP6I3260@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7RGFsYq004381 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:15:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6900G01P0F1N00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:15:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6900CYOP65JQ10@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:15:43 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:15:41 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM To: Stefan Teleman Cc: John.Fischer@Sun.COM, LSARC-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <48B57DAD.6070608@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 3976 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000011 Stefan Teleman wrote: > > > Darren J Moffat wrote: > >> The pkg-config file should be in /usr/lib/pkgconfig we already set >> precedence for this in other cases. I have no problem with providing >> multiple pkgconfig files under the path you gave but the canonical >> version of qt should have one in /usr/lib/pkgconfig > > Which version of QT is the "canonical version of qt" ? > > 4.4.1 ? 4.5.0 ? > > Trolltech makes no claims as to any of QT4's versions being "canonical". That is for the project team too choose. Just like the project teams for things like perl, python, mysql and all those other projects that ship multiple versions often have to. >>> Or, one can say --with-qt-include=${QTDIR}/include >>> --with-qt-libs=${QTDIR}/lib >> >> $QTDIR isn't defined in my environment. > >>>> Is this the common layout on Linux based distributions where GNOME >>>> is considered the primary desktop rather than KDE ? What is they >>>> layout when KDE is the primary desktop ? >>> >>> SUSE organizes as /usr/lib/qt3 /usr/lib/qt4, etc >> >> where are the include files on SUSE ? > > In /usr/include, which I believe is inconsistent, and wrong. Why ? /usr/include is where include files usually live and where they are looked for by default. Why are you trying to hide this somewhere else ? We learn't from /usr/sfw that it only causes pain. >> Why is your layout better than the SUSE one ? What problems does it >> solve that their layout doesn't ? > > The layout proposed here follows the layout established by the Perl ARC > Case PSARC/1999/192. There is a /usr/bin/perl even with that layout, your proposal has no equivalent. > I don't know if it's "better" than Linux, I don't particularily consider > Linux a benchmark for adjudicating the soundness of directory layouts, > and I prefer following established precedents which have been sanctioned > and approved by the ARCs. That is all well and good but don't just copy cases that are 8 years old think about the environment we are in now. >>> It can't be Committed because [1] it doesn't really implement any >>> known Industry standard, >> >> That isn't the definition of committed. > > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/interface-taxonomy/ > > It appears to be one of the attributes to be taken into consideration > when assigning a Committed stability level to an Interface, or a group > of Interfaces. Given that QT does not implement a known Industry > Standard, that's strike one against Committed. It isn't the only one though. >> > and [2] we don't control QT's Interface Stability level. >> >> Then what was all that text above about ? It can be Committed if the >> project team believes that the upstream behaves in a manner suitable. >> The text you provided indicates you do think that. > > Considering the ABI Micro > Release Stability guarantee provided by Trolltech ASA, a > "Committed" Interface Stability Classification would have been > appropriate. > > The project team does not believe that, nor do the ARC Case Documents > imply that the project team believes that. The ARC Case documents > clearly states that this ABI stability guarantee is provided by > Trolltech, and this guarantee only applies to Micro releases. That to me contracts the very sentence you wrote and just quoted. It acutally says that Committed would have been appropriate. > Is an interface stability guarantee which is effective only for Micro > releases appropriate for "Committed" ? I do not believe that it is. We > are saying that "QT 4.4.1 will be ABI and API compatible with 4.4.3, but > not with 4.5.0". If you ship 4.4.x and 4.5.x at the same time yes. > This does not qualify for "Committed". That's strike two against Committed. I disagree but I don't care enough to argue with you about it since in reality it makes no difference what so ever to how QT will be used. Leave it at Uncomitted. -- Darren J Moffat From Stefan.Teleman@sun.com Wed Aug 27 09:23:23 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RGNNwY011561 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RGNLKg011109; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900M19PIV3100@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900DE3PIV3B60@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.110] (punchin-client-10-7-251-110.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.110]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7RGNIsf023268; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:23:18 -0400 From: Stefan Teleman Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B57DAD.6070608@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Reply-to: Stefan Teleman Message-id: <48B57F76.3090504@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> <48B57DAD.6070608@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Content-Length: 492 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000012 Darren J Moffat wrote: >> In /usr/include, which I believe is inconsistent, and wrong. > > Why ? /usr/include is where include files usually live and where they > are looked for by default. 1. How are we going to deliver multiple versions of QT? 2. If we do not deliver multiple versions of QT, and we overwrite the header files in /usr/include every time we uprev, we run the risk of breaking API and ABI. --Stefan -- Stefan Teleman Sun Microsystems, Inc. Stefan.Teleman@Sun.COM From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 27 09:38:13 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RGcDDV012007 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RGc87s017298 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900D0HQ7N2U00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900BE7Q7J0Y80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7RGc7AO006258 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:38:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6900J01Q08AC00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:38:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K69004TMQ7I6500@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:38:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:38:06 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B57F76.3090504@Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Stefan Teleman Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48B582EE.9080105@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> <48B57DAD.6070608@Sun.COM> <48B57F76.3090504@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 1096 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000013 Stefan Teleman wrote: > > > Darren J Moffat wrote: > >>> In /usr/include, which I believe is inconsistent, and wrong. >> >> Why ? /usr/include is where include files usually live and where they >> are looked for by default. > > 1. How are we going to deliver multiple versions of QT? Is that actually a problem that needs to be solved ? Do we really need to have multiple versions of QT installed ? Is this what everyone else does or do they pick one version per release of their os/distribution ? If it is why not /usr/include/qt4/4.4.1/ rather than /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include ? > 2. If we do not deliver multiple versions of QT, and we overwrite the > header files in /usr/include every time we uprev, we run the risk of > breaking API and ABI. I hope the ABI doesn't break because the header files changed. That might be the behaviour you actually want - force things being built to use the newer version but still deliver the older libraries so that existing binaries still run (just like we have done in the past for other "gui" libraries like motif). -- Darren J Moffat From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 27 09:45:50 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RGjnSd012238 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RGjkSc027746 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:45:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900D1HQKBCQ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900B53QKA10B0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7RGjkjV006781 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:45:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6900A01QJD2600@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:45:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6900CM8QK9JQ20@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:45:46 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:45:45 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B582EE.9080105@Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Stefan Teleman Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48B584B9.9010602@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> <48B57DAD.6070608@Sun.COM> <48B57F76.3090504@Sun.COM> <48B582EE.9080105@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 670 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000014 Darren J Moffat wrote: > Stefan Teleman wrote: >> >> Darren J Moffat wrote: >> >>>> In /usr/include, which I believe is inconsistent, and wrong. >>> Why ? /usr/include is where include files usually live and where they >>> are looked for by default. >> 1. How are we going to deliver multiple versions of QT? > > Is that actually a problem that needs to be solved ? Do we really need > to have multiple versions of QT installed ? Is this what everyone else > does or do they pick one version per release of their os/distribution ? Consider that we only ship one version of GNOME and its libraries and that is the OpenSolaris main desktop. -- Darren J Moffat From Stefan.Teleman@sun.com Wed Aug 27 09:59:50 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RGxo59013833 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RGxmcH025258; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900A03R7NO900@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:59:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900M5XR7MV9D0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:59:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.7.251.110] (punchin-client-10-7-251-110.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.251.110]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7RGxkDR001165; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:59:45 -0400 From: Stefan Teleman Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B582EE.9080105@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Reply-to: Stefan Teleman Message-id: <48B58801.2010708@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> <48B57DAD.6070608@Sun.COM> <48B57F76.3090504@Sun.COM> <48B582EE.9080105@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Content-Length: 1944 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000015 Darren J Moffat wrote: >> 1. How are we going to deliver multiple versions of QT? > > Is that actually a problem that needs to be solved ? Do we really need > to have multiple versions of QT installed ? Is this what everyone else > does or do they pick one version per release of their os/distribution ? I believe so, yes. Linux doesn't do this. But then Linux liberally breaks things. The result of this is: any 3rd party Linux application which uses QT, delivers their own private copy of QT: Google Earth, Skype first come to mind. Even KDE. Why do they do this ? Because they can't rely on any sense of stability with the QT provided by the Linux distros. Wouldn't it be nice to provide our consumers of our QT some measure of stability ? > If it is why not /usr/include/qt4/4.4.1/ rather than > /usr/qt4/4.4.1/include ? I can change it. But the idea was to have every version of QT4 in its own directory under /usr/qt4/. > >> 2. If we do not deliver multiple versions of QT, and we overwrite the >> header files in /usr/include every time we uprev, we run the risk of >> breaking API and ABI. > > I hope the ABI doesn't break because the header files changed. It can, and it will, this is C++, and there are templates, virtual tables and inline functions. > That might be the behaviour you actually want - force things being built > to use the newer version but still deliver the older libraries so that > existing binaries still run (just like we have done in the past for > other "gui" libraries like motif). I was thinking of doing that for the process of "obsoleting" a QT version: removing the executables, header files, and ancillary files, and only leaving the libraries around. That makes applications linked against QT still work, but prevents creating new applications against the obsolete version. --Stefan -- Stefan Teleman Sun Microsystems, Inc. Stefan.Teleman@Sun.COM From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Wed Aug 27 11:18:48 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RIImfT016951 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RIIl1q001303 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900A0LUVBN800@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900A2IUVAML00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7RIIkbF001766 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6900B01U213F00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM) for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from almas.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.106.93]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6900CN4UV6JZG0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:18:42 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: LSARC/2008/550 - QT4 Framework In-reply-to: <48B584B9.9010602@Sun.COM> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Stefan Teleman , John.Fischer@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48B59A82.2020704@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <1219698519.9503.172.camel@sr1-umpk-16> <48B3DA7C.1040308@Sun.COM> <48B44D01.2030602@Sun.COM> <48B51E7F.2050908@Sun.COM> <48B57AC2.7020607@Sun.COM> <48B57DAD.6070608@Sun.COM> <48B57F76.3090504@Sun.COM> <48B582EE.9080105@Sun.COM> <48B584B9.9010602@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071203) Content-Length: 630 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000016 Darren J Moffat wrote: > Consider that we only ship one version of GNOME and its libraries and > that is the OpenSolaris main desktop. We still ship two versions of the GTK library stack actually - GTK 1.x and GTK 2.x, since they are API & ABI incompatible. (GTK uses version numbers in a similar way to our taxonomy - incrementing the first for incompatible change, so if/when GTK 3.x arrives, we'll probably need to add a third.) GTK 1.x: /usr/sfw/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 GTK 2.x: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering