From gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com Mon Feb 9 07:46:07 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n19Fk7as026116 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n19Fjokw011754; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KET00F152GTYA00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KET000102GRD3F0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (new-sac.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.175.65]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n19Fk3J2056693; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 07:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n19Fk29k026111; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 07:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gd78059@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id n19Fk2O8026107; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 07:46:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 07:46:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Subject: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] To: LSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: audio-oss-core@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com Message-id: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 4096 I'm filing this on my own behalf. While the proposal is for EOF of a closed source bit (sdtaudiocontrol), I think its fair for the discussion to be in the open, so the case is left open. The timeout is set for Feb 16, 2009. Thanks. Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: EOF sdtaudiocontrol 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Garrett D'Amore 1.3 Date of This Document: 09 February, 2009 4. Technical Description EOF sdtaudiocontrol ------------------- Garrett D'Amore Sun Microsystems, Inc. Jan 26, 2009 Executive Summary: ---- As part of the Boomer project (PSARC 2008/318), we would like to EOF the CDE application called sdtaudiocontrol, in favor of the gnome-volume-control application. Details: ---- 1) sdtaudiocontrol is part of CDE, and is not delivered with Gnome/JDS. Hence it is unavailable on OpenSolaris, and, we believe, ultimately doomed with the rest of CDE. (Although it was explicitly exempted from the rest of the CDE EOF in LSARC 2007/648.) 2) sdtaudiocontrol is the sole consumer of a number of APIs in the SADA mixer framework. The Boomer project would prefer not to have to support those APIs. 3) The mixer APIs that sdtaudiocontrol uses are not expressive enough to support the full richness that the Boomer project can support (e.g. multichannel volume control, additional input and output ports, etc.) Another example are devices that can support multiple simultaneous monitors with independent gain control -- legacy Sun mixer APIs simply cannot express such a notion. 4) Updating sdtaudiocontrol to support use the OSS APIs is possible, but would take considerable effort. Additionally, the Boomer implemenation of the OSS APIs would need to be enhanced to support per-application volume controls. 5) The gnome-volume-control can do nearly everything that sdtaudiocontrol does, and can support (with a suitable Gstreamer plugin), complete device control, including all of the features Boomer will deliver. gnome-volume-control will operate on systems with CDE. 6) The Boomer project has already indicated that applications which wish to adjust master hardware settings will have to be converted to use OSS v4.x APIs that are supplied with Boomer. Applications using the Sun API will impact only a "soft volume" associated with the application, and not have any effect on the global hardware levels. Proposed Solution: ---- We propose to EOF sdtaudiocontrol altogether, along with a number of the APIs of which it is the sole consumer. (These are the APIs to query and change individual application volumes.) Any remaining mixer and audio API will be altered in accordance with Boomer, such that applications built upon them will only be able to impact their own "per application" soft volume. Possible Concerns: ---- 1) gnome-volume-control (today at least) has nothing akin to the "application volume control" that sdtaudiocontrol offers. Such a feature could be added if it is deemed required. (This would potentially significantly complicate gnome-volume-control, since applications can come and go, hence the set of controls offered would need to be much more dynamic that it currently is. There are other issues even with sdtaudiocontrol's use of this feature, since many applications perform their own "soft volume" attenuation in the application such that no mixer application will ever be able to synchronize properly.) In the short run, we are proposing not to deliver this feature. (Again, note that this feature is not available on OpenSolaris, today.) 2) Customers installing CDE without JDS will not have GUI access to adjust audio settings including volume. A command line application, mixerctl, will still be available that will offer the full functionality of gnome-volume-control. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: CDE 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From John.Fischer@sun.com Mon Feb 9 08:31:30 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n19GVTrp016919 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 08:31:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n19GV3YQ018296; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:31:27 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KET00M074KF3400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KET00EBK4KEEMF0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n19GVQNj019741; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:31:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KET007002TQQV00@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from 129.145.154.112 ([unknown] [129.145.154.112]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KET00EVE4JSBC80@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:31:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:31:04 -0800 From: John Fischer Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <1234197063.2067.6165.camel@sr1-umpk-12> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.301 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 4698 Garrett, This project appears to be deprecating the sdtaudiocontrol application in a Patch release of Solaris and removing it in a Minor release of Solaris. Correct? If so then the interface is Obsolete Uncommitted. What about the SADA mixer framework? Are you doing the same for it as well? Thanks, John On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 07:46, Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote: > I'm filing this on my own behalf. While the proposal is for EOF of a > closed source bit (sdtaudiocontrol), I think its fair for the > discussion to be in the open, so the case is left open. The timeout > is set for Feb 16, 2009. Thanks. > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI > This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > EOF sdtaudiocontrol > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Garrett D'Amore > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 09 February, 2009 > 4. Technical Description > > EOF sdtaudiocontrol > ------------------- > > Garrett D'Amore > Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Jan 26, 2009 > > Executive Summary: > ---- > > As part of the Boomer project (PSARC 2008/318), we would like to EOF the > CDE application called sdtaudiocontrol, in favor of the > gnome-volume-control application. > > > Details: > ---- > > 1) sdtaudiocontrol is part of CDE, and is not delivered with > Gnome/JDS. Hence it is unavailable on OpenSolaris, and, we believe, > ultimately doomed with the rest of CDE. (Although it was explicitly > exempted from the rest of the CDE EOF in LSARC 2007/648.) > > 2) sdtaudiocontrol is the sole consumer of a number of APIs in the > SADA mixer framework. The Boomer project would prefer not to have to > support those APIs. > > 3) The mixer APIs that sdtaudiocontrol uses are not expressive enough > to support the full richness that the Boomer project can support > (e.g. multichannel volume control, additional input and output ports, > etc.) Another example are devices that can support multiple > simultaneous monitors with independent gain control -- legacy Sun > mixer APIs simply cannot express such a notion. > > 4) Updating sdtaudiocontrol to support use the OSS APIs is possible, > but would take considerable effort. Additionally, the Boomer > implemenation of the OSS APIs would need to be enhanced to support > per-application volume controls. > > 5) The gnome-volume-control can do nearly everything that > sdtaudiocontrol does, and can support (with a suitable Gstreamer > plugin), complete device control, including all of the features Boomer > will deliver. gnome-volume-control will operate on systems with CDE. > > 6) The Boomer project has already indicated that applications which > wish to adjust master hardware settings will have to be converted to > use OSS v4.x APIs that are supplied with Boomer. Applications using the Sun > API will impact only a "soft volume" associated with the application, and not > have any effect on the global hardware levels. > > > Proposed Solution: > ---- > > We propose to EOF sdtaudiocontrol altogether, along with a number of > the APIs of which it is the sole consumer. (These are the APIs to > query and change individual application volumes.) Any remaining mixer > and audio API will be altered in accordance with Boomer, such that > applications built upon them will only be able to impact their own > "per application" soft volume. > > > Possible Concerns: > ---- > > 1) gnome-volume-control (today at least) has nothing akin to the > "application volume control" that sdtaudiocontrol offers. Such a > feature could be added if it is deemed required. (This would > potentially significantly complicate gnome-volume-control, since > applications can come and go, hence the set of controls offered would > need to be much more dynamic that it currently is. There are other > issues even with sdtaudiocontrol's use of this feature, since many > applications perform their own "soft volume" attenuation in the > application such that no mixer application will ever be able to > synchronize properly.) In the short run, we are proposing not to > deliver this feature. (Again, note that this feature is not available > on OpenSolaris, today.) > > 2) Customers installing CDE without JDS will not have GUI access to > adjust audio settings including volume. A command line application, > mixerctl, will still be available that will offer the full > functionality of gnome-volume-control. > > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > CDE > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > From gdamore@sun.com Mon Feb 9 08:46:46 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n19Gkkw5017527 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 08:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n19GkenQ024549; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 08:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KET00M2V59WWH00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KET00ES159NEND0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n19GkZ9p022491; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KET0080057D3A00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KET002EJ59GGN20@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:46:27 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <1234197063.2067.6165.camel@sr1-umpk-12> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: John.Fischer@sun.com Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com Message-id: <49905DE3.6030209@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <1234197063.2067.6165.camel@sr1-umpk-12> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 5862 John Fischer wrote: > Garrett, > > This project appears to be deprecating the sdtaudiocontrol > application in a Patch release of Solaris and removing it in > a Minor release of Solaris. Correct? If so then the interface > is Obsolete Uncommitted. What about the SADA mixer framework? > Are you doing the same for it as well? > Yes, sdtaudiocontrol would be Obsolete Uncommitted in the next S10 release, and removed in whatever Solaris release follows. May folks are confused by the name "SADA". SADA applies to the in-kernel interfaces. Those interfaces were never public, and so their removal requires no notice. However, the mixer(7i) API *is* public. Those interfaces will be marked Obsolete Uncommitted. The details of how these are being affected is really more relevant for PSARC 2008/318 than here, but suffice to say that some of the semantics are being changed in ways to allow ordinary audio applications to operate properly, but which will require applications which wanted to control the audio mixer directly (as opposed to managing their own playback or record levels) to use the new OSS API. Note that *this* case is not to approve the changes being made as part of PSARC 2008/318, other than to explain them as a motivation for the key aspect of the case, which is the EOF sdtaudiocontrol. -- Garrett > Thanks, > > John > > On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 07:46, Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote: > >> I'm filing this on my own behalf. While the proposal is for EOF of a >> closed source bit (sdtaudiocontrol), I think its fair for the >> discussion to be in the open, so the case is left open. The timeout >> is set for Feb 16, 2009. Thanks. >> >> >> Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI >> This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems >> 1. Introduction >> 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: >> EOF sdtaudiocontrol >> 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: >> Author: Garrett D'Amore >> 1.3 Date of This Document: >> 09 February, 2009 >> 4. Technical Description >> >> EOF sdtaudiocontrol >> ------------------- >> >> Garrett D'Amore >> Sun Microsystems, Inc. >> Jan 26, 2009 >> >> Executive Summary: >> ---- >> >> As part of the Boomer project (PSARC 2008/318), we would like to EOF the >> CDE application called sdtaudiocontrol, in favor of the >> gnome-volume-control application. >> >> >> Details: >> ---- >> >> 1) sdtaudiocontrol is part of CDE, and is not delivered with >> Gnome/JDS. Hence it is unavailable on OpenSolaris, and, we believe, >> ultimately doomed with the rest of CDE. (Although it was explicitly >> exempted from the rest of the CDE EOF in LSARC 2007/648.) >> >> 2) sdtaudiocontrol is the sole consumer of a number of APIs in the >> SADA mixer framework. The Boomer project would prefer not to have to >> support those APIs. >> >> 3) The mixer APIs that sdtaudiocontrol uses are not expressive enough >> to support the full richness that the Boomer project can support >> (e.g. multichannel volume control, additional input and output ports, >> etc.) Another example are devices that can support multiple >> simultaneous monitors with independent gain control -- legacy Sun >> mixer APIs simply cannot express such a notion. >> >> 4) Updating sdtaudiocontrol to support use the OSS APIs is possible, >> but would take considerable effort. Additionally, the Boomer >> implemenation of the OSS APIs would need to be enhanced to support >> per-application volume controls. >> >> 5) The gnome-volume-control can do nearly everything that >> sdtaudiocontrol does, and can support (with a suitable Gstreamer >> plugin), complete device control, including all of the features Boomer >> will deliver. gnome-volume-control will operate on systems with CDE. >> >> 6) The Boomer project has already indicated that applications which >> wish to adjust master hardware settings will have to be converted to >> use OSS v4.x APIs that are supplied with Boomer. Applications using the Sun >> API will impact only a "soft volume" associated with the application, and not >> have any effect on the global hardware levels. >> >> >> Proposed Solution: >> ---- >> >> We propose to EOF sdtaudiocontrol altogether, along with a number of >> the APIs of which it is the sole consumer. (These are the APIs to >> query and change individual application volumes.) Any remaining mixer >> and audio API will be altered in accordance with Boomer, such that >> applications built upon them will only be able to impact their own >> "per application" soft volume. >> >> >> Possible Concerns: >> ---- >> >> 1) gnome-volume-control (today at least) has nothing akin to the >> "application volume control" that sdtaudiocontrol offers. Such a >> feature could be added if it is deemed required. (This would >> potentially significantly complicate gnome-volume-control, since >> applications can come and go, hence the set of controls offered would >> need to be much more dynamic that it currently is. There are other >> issues even with sdtaudiocontrol's use of this feature, since many >> applications perform their own "soft volume" attenuation in the >> application such that no mixer application will ever be able to >> synchronize properly.) In the short run, we are proposing not to >> deliver this feature. (Again, note that this feature is not available >> on OpenSolaris, today.) >> >> 2) Customers installing CDE without JDS will not have GUI access to >> adjust audio settings including volume. A command line application, >> mixerctl, will still be available that will offer the full >> functionality of gnome-volume-control. >> >> >> >> 6. Resources and Schedule >> 6.4. Steering Committee requested information >> 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: >> CDE >> 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack >> 6.6. ARC Exposure: open >> >> > > From John.Fischer@sun.com Mon Feb 9 09:33:15 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n19HXE5I020336 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:33:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n19HX9N3028286; Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:33:12 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KET0020Z7FBHI00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KET000QG7F8F940@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n19HX870022592; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:33:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KET0000066EPY00@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:33:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from 129.145.154.112 ([unknown] [129.145.154.112]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KET00JIB7EXFKG0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:32:59 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:32:57 -0800 From: John Fischer Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <49905DE3.6030209@sun.com> Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <1234200777.2067.6167.camel@sr1-umpk-12> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.301 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <1234197063.2067.6165.camel@sr1-umpk-12> <49905DE3.6030209@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 6220 +1 On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 08:46, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > John Fischer wrote: > > Garrett, > > > > This project appears to be deprecating the sdtaudiocontrol > > application in a Patch release of Solaris and removing it in > > a Minor release of Solaris. Correct? If so then the interface > > is Obsolete Uncommitted. What about the SADA mixer framework? > > Are you doing the same for it as well? > > > > Yes, sdtaudiocontrol would be Obsolete Uncommitted in the next S10 > release, and removed in whatever Solaris release follows. > > May folks are confused by the name "SADA". SADA applies to the > in-kernel interfaces. Those interfaces were never public, and so their > removal requires no notice. > > However, the mixer(7i) API *is* public. Those interfaces will be marked > Obsolete Uncommitted. The details of how these are being affected is > really more relevant for PSARC 2008/318 than here, but suffice to say > that some of the semantics are being changed in ways to allow ordinary > audio applications to operate properly, but which will require > applications which wanted to control the audio mixer directly (as > opposed to managing their own playback or record levels) to use the new > OSS API. > > Note that *this* case is not to approve the changes being made as part > of PSARC 2008/318, other than to explain them as a motivation for the > key aspect of the case, which is the EOF sdtaudiocontrol. > > -- Garrett > > Thanks, > > > > John > > > > On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 07:46, Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote: > > > >> I'm filing this on my own behalf. While the proposal is for EOF of a > >> closed source bit (sdtaudiocontrol), I think its fair for the > >> discussion to be in the open, so the case is left open. The timeout > >> is set for Feb 16, 2009. Thanks. > >> > >> > >> Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI > >> This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > >> 1. Introduction > >> 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > >> EOF sdtaudiocontrol > >> 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > >> Author: Garrett D'Amore > >> 1.3 Date of This Document: > >> 09 February, 2009 > >> 4. Technical Description > >> > >> EOF sdtaudiocontrol > >> ------------------- > >> > >> Garrett D'Amore > >> Sun Microsystems, Inc. > >> Jan 26, 2009 > >> > >> Executive Summary: > >> ---- > >> > >> As part of the Boomer project (PSARC 2008/318), we would like to EOF the > >> CDE application called sdtaudiocontrol, in favor of the > >> gnome-volume-control application. > >> > >> > >> Details: > >> ---- > >> > >> 1) sdtaudiocontrol is part of CDE, and is not delivered with > >> Gnome/JDS. Hence it is unavailable on OpenSolaris, and, we believe, > >> ultimately doomed with the rest of CDE. (Although it was explicitly > >> exempted from the rest of the CDE EOF in LSARC 2007/648.) > >> > >> 2) sdtaudiocontrol is the sole consumer of a number of APIs in the > >> SADA mixer framework. The Boomer project would prefer not to have to > >> support those APIs. > >> > >> 3) The mixer APIs that sdtaudiocontrol uses are not expressive enough > >> to support the full richness that the Boomer project can support > >> (e.g. multichannel volume control, additional input and output ports, > >> etc.) Another example are devices that can support multiple > >> simultaneous monitors with independent gain control -- legacy Sun > >> mixer APIs simply cannot express such a notion. > >> > >> 4) Updating sdtaudiocontrol to support use the OSS APIs is possible, > >> but would take considerable effort. Additionally, the Boomer > >> implemenation of the OSS APIs would need to be enhanced to support > >> per-application volume controls. > >> > >> 5) The gnome-volume-control can do nearly everything that > >> sdtaudiocontrol does, and can support (with a suitable Gstreamer > >> plugin), complete device control, including all of the features Boomer > >> will deliver. gnome-volume-control will operate on systems with CDE. > >> > >> 6) The Boomer project has already indicated that applications which > >> wish to adjust master hardware settings will have to be converted to > >> use OSS v4.x APIs that are supplied with Boomer. Applications using the Sun > >> API will impact only a "soft volume" associated with the application, and not > >> have any effect on the global hardware levels. > >> > >> > >> Proposed Solution: > >> ---- > >> > >> We propose to EOF sdtaudiocontrol altogether, along with a number of > >> the APIs of which it is the sole consumer. (These are the APIs to > >> query and change individual application volumes.) Any remaining mixer > >> and audio API will be altered in accordance with Boomer, such that > >> applications built upon them will only be able to impact their own > >> "per application" soft volume. > >> > >> > >> Possible Concerns: > >> ---- > >> > >> 1) gnome-volume-control (today at least) has nothing akin to the > >> "application volume control" that sdtaudiocontrol offers. Such a > >> feature could be added if it is deemed required. (This would > >> potentially significantly complicate gnome-volume-control, since > >> applications can come and go, hence the set of controls offered would > >> need to be much more dynamic that it currently is. There are other > >> issues even with sdtaudiocontrol's use of this feature, since many > >> applications perform their own "soft volume" attenuation in the > >> application such that no mixer application will ever be able to > >> synchronize properly.) In the short run, we are proposing not to > >> deliver this feature. (Again, note that this feature is not available > >> on OpenSolaris, today.) > >> > >> 2) Customers installing CDE without JDS will not have GUI access to > >> adjust audio settings including volume. A command line application, > >> mixerctl, will still be available that will offer the full > >> functionality of gnome-volume-control. > >> > >> > >> > >> 6. Resources and Schedule > >> 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > >> 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > >> CDE > >> 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > >> 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > >> > >> > > > > > From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Tue Feb 10 06:13:36 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AEDag3028922 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AEDZ5C010037; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEU0081PSUNJY00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:13:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEU00LZ0SUMVVA0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:13:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AEDYJ7029274; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:13:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEU00C00QD3AF00@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:13:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.199] ([unknown] [129.156.173.199]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEU008TSSULKYC0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:13:33 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:13:33 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20081119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1389 Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote: > 5) The gnome-volume-control can do nearly everything that > sdtaudiocontrol does, and can support (with a suitable Gstreamer > plugin), complete device control, including all of the features Boomer > will deliver. gnome-volume-control will operate on systems with CDE. > 1) gnome-volume-control (today at least) has nothing akin to the > "application volume control" that sdtaudiocontrol offers. Such a > feature could be added if it is deemed required. (This would > potentially significantly complicate gnome-volume-control, since > applications can come and go, hence the set of controls offered would > need to be much more dynamic that it currently is. There are other > issues even with sdtaudiocontrol's use of this feature, since many > applications perform their own "soft volume" attenuation in the > application such that no mixer application will ever be able to > synchronize properly.) In the short run, we are proposing not to > deliver this feature. (Again, note that this feature is not available > on OpenSolaris, today.) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VolumeControl Seems to indicate a desire to add this functionality to g-v-c for Fedora and their choice of audit infrastructure. I don't know if code for this actually exists or if this is all just requests for features and mockups. -- Darren J Moffat From gdamore@sun.com Tue Feb 10 07:52:03 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AFq3vL003443 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AFq1BN028955; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEU00K0VXEPRI00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEU00AMGXEO6IA0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AFq0QB028269; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEU00000X4TO900@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEU00JPCXEG2GA0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:51:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:51:51 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1763 Darren J Moffat wrote: > Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote: >> 5) The gnome-volume-control can do nearly everything that >> sdtaudiocontrol does, and can support (with a suitable Gstreamer >> plugin), complete device control, including all of the features Boomer >> will deliver. gnome-volume-control will operate on systems with CDE. > >> 1) gnome-volume-control (today at least) has nothing akin to the >> "application volume control" that sdtaudiocontrol offers. Such a >> feature could be added if it is deemed required. (This would >> potentially significantly complicate gnome-volume-control, since >> applications can come and go, hence the set of controls offered would >> need to be much more dynamic that it currently is. There are other >> issues even with sdtaudiocontrol's use of this feature, since many >> applications perform their own "soft volume" attenuation in the >> application such that no mixer application will ever be able to >> synchronize properly.) In the short run, we are proposing not to >> deliver this feature. (Again, note that this feature is not available >> on OpenSolaris, today.) > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VolumeControl > > Seems to indicate a desire to add this functionality to g-v-c for > Fedora and their choice of audit infrastructure. > > I don't know if code for this actually exists or if this is all just > requests for features and mockups. > Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own issues. If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they can be added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with such a request as an RFE rather than a TCR. -- Garrett From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Tue Feb 10 08:20:24 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AGKOiX024921 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AGKN4m042664; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:20:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEU00F1XYPX6A00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEU00BA9YPRM260@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AGKFx0010764; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:20:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEU00000XUGLA00@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:20:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.199] ([unknown] [129.156.173.199]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEU00HP0YPIP470@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:20:07 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:20:06 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991A936.2030202@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20081119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1053 Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VolumeControl >> >> Seems to indicate a desire to add this functionality to g-v-c for >> Fedora and their choice of audit infrastructure. >> >> I don't know if code for this actually exists or if this is all just >> requests for features and mockups. >> > Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is > aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own issues. > If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they can be > added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with such a > request as an RFE rather than a TCR. The problem is as I understand from the description you provided not doing it would be a regression. Or is it that what sdtaudiocontrol provides isn't really that useful anyway ? I'm not in a position to play with that part of sdtaudiocontol at the moment since I'm either on SXCE via Sun Ray or an OpenSolaris 2008.11, so neither gives me the ability to see how this works. -- Darren J Moffat From gdamore@sun.com Tue Feb 10 08:28:54 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AGSslf025380 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:28:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AGSnPj029469; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEU0013LZ449G00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEU00AOQZ416IE0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:28:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AGSnBs002528; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEU00C00YOD5P00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEU00ENJZ3USVA0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:28:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:28:42 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <4991A936.2030202@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991AB3A.8040209@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> <4991A936.2030202@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1721 Darren J Moffat wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VolumeControl >>> >>> Seems to indicate a desire to add this functionality to g-v-c for >>> Fedora and their choice of audit infrastructure. >>> >>> I don't know if code for this actually exists or if this is all just >>> requests for features and mockups. >>> >> Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is >> aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own issues. >> If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they can >> be added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with such a >> request as an RFE rather than a TCR. > > The problem is as I understand from the description you provided not > doing it would be a regression. Or is it that what sdtaudiocontrol > provides isn't really that useful anyway ? Yes on both counts. Its a regression, but of functionality that is IMO rarely used and which is problematic in systems using gnome. (Historically, all gnome applications would have just had one entry for the esd daemon. More recently, gnome applications manage their own soft volume using attenuation within the application, which wouldn't be synchronized with any per app volume control.) Also, this ability was never delivered in OpenSolaris. > > I'm not in a position to play with that part of sdtaudiocontol at the > moment since I'm either on SXCE via Sun Ray or an OpenSolaris 2008.11, > so neither gives me the ability to see how this works. > Right. (And, on builds prior to 100 or so, even SXCE didn't work right if you were using gnome, because you only have one application, esd, that shows up.) -- Garrett From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Tue Feb 10 08:33:10 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AGX9cv025604 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AGWwxH028097; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:33:08 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEU00F29ZB6SR00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEU00BCHZB5M270@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AGX5Ek012738; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:33:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEU00F00XHND900@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:33:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.199] ([unknown] [129.156.173.199]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEU00HNQZADMG60@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:32:37 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:32:37 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <4991AB3A.8040209@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991AC25.3050108@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> <4991A936.2030202@Sun.COM> <4991AB3A.8040209@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20081119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1858 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Darren J Moffat wrote: >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VolumeControl >>>> >>>> Seems to indicate a desire to add this functionality to g-v-c for >>>> Fedora and their choice of audit infrastructure. >>>> >>>> I don't know if code for this actually exists or if this is all just >>>> requests for features and mockups. >>>> >>> Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is >>> aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own issues. >>> If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they can >>> be added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with such a >>> request as an RFE rather than a TCR. >> >> The problem is as I understand from the description you provided not >> doing it would be a regression. Or is it that what sdtaudiocontrol >> provides isn't really that useful anyway ? > > Yes on both counts. Its a regression, but of functionality that is IMO > rarely used and which is problematic in systems using gnome. > (Historically, all gnome applications would have just had one entry for > the esd daemon. More recently, gnome applications manage their own soft > volume using attenuation within the application, which wouldn't be > synchronized with any per app volume control.) Also, this ability was > never delivered in OpenSolaris. > > >> >> I'm not in a position to play with that part of sdtaudiocontol at the >> moment since I'm either on SXCE via Sun Ray or an OpenSolaris 2008.11, >> so neither gives me the ability to see how this works. >> > > Right. (And, on builds prior to 100 or so, even SXCE didn't work right > if you were using gnome, because you only have one application, esd, > that shows up.) In that case I'm happy with the EOF of sdtaudiocontrol. -- Darren J Moffat From Brian.Cameron@sun.com Tue Feb 10 09:05:05 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AH55s8027265 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:05:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AH4wua022904; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:05:04 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEV0040L0SFRN00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEV0032J0SDA320@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AH51rh015666; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:05:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEU00K00YQBG900@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.0.0.5] ([unknown] [65.42.84.139]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEV003R30S5KB50@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:04:56 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:04:20 -0600 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Darren J Moffat , "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991B394.9040409@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081215) Status: RO Content-Length: 1348 Garrett: > Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is > aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own issues. > If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they can be > added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with such a > request as an RFE rather than a TCR. Note the GNOME "gnome-media" module contains two "gnome-volume-control" applications, starting with gnome-media version 2.25. One of them is called "gst-mixer", and this is the GStreamer based one that we have always used. There is also a new "gnome-volume-control" which uses PulseAudio. It seems that most distros which use PulseAudio are going to switch to using the PulseAudio based one, while distros which do not use PulseAudio (or have problems with it) will continue using gst-mixer. This was discussed at length on the GNOME desktop-devel-list. Unfortunately, the thread is a mix of different issues, not just related to PulseAudio. However, here are a few emails from that thread if you have an interest to learn more about what the community is doing: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00208.html http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00239.html http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00240.html Brian From gdamore@sun.com Tue Feb 10 09:16:42 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AHGg4U027965 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AHGdgE004048; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEV0050H1BTT500@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:16:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEV003Q91BQA330@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AHGcR4002376; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEV00M0006QHH00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEV0015T1BCXE10@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:16:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:16:20 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <4991B394.9040409@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Brian Cameron Cc: Darren J Moffat , "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991B664.30508@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> <4991B394.9040409@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 2560 Thanks for the clarification. Supporting PulseAudio is something another team could undertake at some point. However, in order for it to work properly, there are a few things: 1) all the applications would have to be converted to it. (In the Linux distro world, where all apps are delivered with the distro, and there is no binary compatibility guarantee, nobody cares. In the Solaris world, this could create headaches as applications would have to be converted to understand PulseAudio.) 2) PulseAudio itself would need to be ported to Solaris/Boomer. This probably isn't a big effort. 3) IIUC, PulseAudio doesn't have a way to express the richness of the hardware device control that we'd like. (For example, being able to adjust the level of a particular analog output independently of the others, or being able to change the function of a jack or configure jack sense.) I think PulseAudio relies on the underlying subsystem to provide this -- and for Linux that usually means alsa with its rather Byzantine configuration files and tools. I don't think that's terribly workable for Solaris. -- Garrett Brian Cameron wrote: > > Garrett: > >> Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is >> aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own issues. >> If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they can >> be added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with such a >> request as an RFE rather than a TCR. > > Note the GNOME "gnome-media" module contains two "gnome-volume-control" > applications, starting with gnome-media version 2.25. One of them > is called "gst-mixer", and this is the GStreamer based one that we > have always used. There is also a new "gnome-volume-control" which > uses PulseAudio. It seems that most distros which use PulseAudio are > going to switch to using the PulseAudio based one, while distros which > do not use PulseAudio (or have problems with it) will continue using > gst-mixer. > > This was discussed at length on the GNOME desktop-devel-list. > Unfortunately, the thread is a mix of different issues, not just related > to PulseAudio. However, here are a few emails from that thread if you > have an interest to learn more about what the community is doing: > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00208.html > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00239.html > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00240.html > > > Brian From Brian.Cameron@sun.com Tue Feb 10 09:28:49 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AHSmhX028582 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AHSiDv010209; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:28:48 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEV003171VXE300@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEV0039I1VW4400@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AHShss028270; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:28:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEU00K00YQBG900@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:28:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.0.0.5] ([unknown] [65.42.84.139]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEV003PN1VIKBF0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:28:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:27:57 -0600 From: Brian Cameron Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <4991B664.30508@sun.com> Sender: Brian.Cameron@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Darren J Moffat , "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991B91D.6020007@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> <4991B394.9040409@sun.com> <4991B664.30508@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081215) Status: RO Content-Length: 3787 Garrett: There are no plans to integrate PulseAudio on Solaris currently. It's main value is to add per-application mixing support. This is useful if you use ALSA which has no per-application mixing support, but this feature is not so useful when using OSS since OSS already has such support directly. Another interesting PulseAudio feature is that it supports "Glitch-Free Audio", though I understand OSS would need some non-trivial enhancements to work with this feature. I don't believe there are any plans to do this sort of PulseAudio integration in Solaris OSS. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GlitchFreeAudio Other PulseAudio features (such as being able to switch audio to a different stream on sound-card hotplug and positional sounds) are kind of interesting, but I don't think interesting enough to warrant the amount of work it would take to integrate PulseAudio. As you highlight, Garrett, making all Sun audio programs talk directly to PulseAudio is, by itself, a fair bit of work. Also, some of these features would likely make more sense to integrate into OSS directly (such as hotplug support). Brian > Thanks for the clarification. > > Supporting PulseAudio is something another team could undertake at some > point. However, in order for it to work properly, there are a few things: > > 1) all the applications would have to be converted to it. (In the Linux > distro world, where all apps are delivered with the distro, and there is > no binary compatibility guarantee, nobody cares. In the Solaris world, > this could create headaches as applications would have to be converted > to understand PulseAudio.) > > 2) PulseAudio itself would need to be ported to Solaris/Boomer. This > probably isn't a big effort. > > 3) IIUC, PulseAudio doesn't have a way to express the richness of the > hardware device control that we'd like. (For example, being able to > adjust the level of a particular analog output independently of the > others, or being able to change the function of a jack or configure jack > sense.) I think PulseAudio relies on the underlying subsystem to > provide this -- and for Linux that usually means alsa with its rather > Byzantine configuration files and tools. I don't think that's terribly > workable for Solaris. > > -- Garrett > > Brian Cameron wrote: >> >> Garrett: >> >>> Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is >>> aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own issues. >>> If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they can >>> be added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with such a >>> request as an RFE rather than a TCR. >> >> Note the GNOME "gnome-media" module contains two "gnome-volume-control" >> applications, starting with gnome-media version 2.25. One of them >> is called "gst-mixer", and this is the GStreamer based one that we >> have always used. There is also a new "gnome-volume-control" which >> uses PulseAudio. It seems that most distros which use PulseAudio are >> going to switch to using the PulseAudio based one, while distros which >> do not use PulseAudio (or have problems with it) will continue using >> gst-mixer. >> >> This was discussed at length on the GNOME desktop-devel-list. >> Unfortunately, the thread is a mix of different issues, not just related >> to PulseAudio. However, here are a few emails from that thread if you >> have an interest to learn more about what the community is doing: >> >> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00208.html >> >> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00239.html >> >> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00240.html >> >> >> Brian > From gdamore@sun.com Tue Feb 10 09:33:58 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1AHXwM1028960 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1AHXvV1020241; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KEV00J5724L2C00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KEV00BZY24JM5B0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1AHXt3p011407; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KEV00M0006QHH00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KEV001NF24GXEA0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:33:52 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF sdtaudiocontrol [LSARC/2009/074 FastTrack timeout 02/16/2009] In-reply-to: <4991B91D.6020007@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Brian Cameron Cc: Darren J Moffat , "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" , LSARC-ext@sun.com, jds_multimedia@sun.com, audio-oss-core@sun.com Message-id: <4991BA80.4070406@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200902091546.n19Fk2O8026107@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <49918B8D.7060207@Sun.COM> <4991A297.3080604@sun.com> <4991B394.9040409@sun.com> <4991B664.30508@sun.com> <4991B91D.6020007@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 4376 Positional audio is the one feature that I see being useful in PulseAudio, which we don't have, and are unlikely to be able to easily add. All of the other tasks are easy to add. As far as per-application volume -- yes we have it in OSS -- but we don't have a way to *access* it from a central panel. To address that would require modest effort to improve Boomer and Gnome-volume-control. (Its about 3 days of effort, I think.) -- Garrett Brian Cameron wrote: > > Garrett: > > There are no plans to integrate PulseAudio on Solaris currently. It's > main value is to add per-application mixing support. This is useful if > you use ALSA which has no per-application mixing support, but this > feature is not so useful when using OSS since OSS already has such > support directly. > > Another interesting PulseAudio feature is that it supports "Glitch-Free > Audio", though I understand OSS would need some non-trivial enhancements > to work with this feature. I don't believe there are any plans to do > this sort of PulseAudio integration in Solaris OSS. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GlitchFreeAudio > > Other PulseAudio features (such as being able to switch audio to a > different stream on sound-card hotplug and positional sounds) are > kind of interesting, but I don't think interesting enough to warrant > the amount of work it would take to integrate PulseAudio. As you > highlight, Garrett, making all Sun audio programs talk directly to > PulseAudio is, by itself, a fair bit of work. Also, some of these > features would likely make more sense to integrate into OSS directly > (such as hotplug support). > > Brian > > >> Thanks for the clarification. >> >> Supporting PulseAudio is something another team could undertake at >> some point. However, in order for it to work properly, there are a >> few things: >> >> 1) all the applications would have to be converted to it. (In the >> Linux distro world, where all apps are delivered with the distro, and >> there is no binary compatibility guarantee, nobody cares. In the >> Solaris world, this could create headaches as applications would have >> to be converted to understand PulseAudio.) >> >> 2) PulseAudio itself would need to be ported to Solaris/Boomer. This >> probably isn't a big effort. >> >> 3) IIUC, PulseAudio doesn't have a way to express the richness of the >> hardware device control that we'd like. (For example, being able to >> adjust the level of a particular analog output independently of the >> others, or being able to change the function of a jack or configure >> jack sense.) I think PulseAudio relies on the underlying subsystem >> to provide this -- and for Linux that usually means alsa with its >> rather Byzantine configuration files and tools. I don't think that's >> terribly workable for Solaris. >> >> -- Garrett >> >> Brian Cameron wrote: >>> >>> Garrett: >>> >>>> Its not in the g-v-c code today. But it looks to me like Fedora is >>>> aiming for a PulseAudio based implementation, which has its own >>>> issues. >>>> If people really want the per-application controls in g-v-c, they >>>> can be added, but its just a time thing. I'd prefer to deal with >>>> such a request as an RFE rather than a TCR. >>> >>> Note the GNOME "gnome-media" module contains two "gnome-volume-control" >>> applications, starting with gnome-media version 2.25. One of them >>> is called "gst-mixer", and this is the GStreamer based one that we >>> have always used. There is also a new "gnome-volume-control" which >>> uses PulseAudio. It seems that most distros which use PulseAudio are >>> going to switch to using the PulseAudio based one, while distros which >>> do not use PulseAudio (or have problems with it) will continue using >>> gst-mixer. >>> >>> This was discussed at length on the GNOME desktop-devel-list. >>> Unfortunately, the thread is a mix of different issues, not just >>> related >>> to PulseAudio. However, here are a few emails from that thread if you >>> have an interest to learn more about what the community is doing: >>> >>> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00208.html >>> >>> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00239.html >>> >>> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/msg00240.html >>> >>> >>> Brian >> > From gdamore@Sun.COM Wed Feb 18 10:04:02 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1II42Av029666 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n1II42mO020719 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:LSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KF900F1RWUP3C00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KF9006L9WUOUCB0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT LSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n1II40D3021427 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:04:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) id <0KF900F00UJR4K00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT LSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:45:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 23 2008)) with ESMTPSA id <0KF900JUWVYWL2J0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for LSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT LSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:44:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:03:51 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: LSARC 2009/074 EOF sdtaudiocontrol Sender: Garrett.Damore@Sun.COM To: LSARC-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <499C4D87.2080004@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 139 As this case has timed out without any objections, and with the requisite +1, I'm marking it closed approved. Thank you. -- Garrett