From sacadmin Tue Jan 31 16:13:04 2006
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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:12:59 -0800 (PST)
From: PSARC-coord@sun.com
Subject: New PSARC Materials Submitted 2005/712 Over-the-wire Checksums for
 NFSv4
To: PSARC@sun.com
Cc: Alok.Aggarwal@sun.com, PSARC-coord@sun.com
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New Materials submitted for PSARC 2005/712 Over-the-wire Checksums for NFSv4
Status: inception scheduled 02/08/2006

Files:
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/inception.materials/20Questions
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/inception.materials/Checksum.Design
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/inception.materials/mount_nfs.1m
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/inception.materials/share_nfs.1m
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/inception.materials/Why-NFSv4-Checksums.pdf

Please let me know if you have questions.

- PSARC


From sacadmin Mon Feb 13 15:48:08 2006
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:48:15 -0800
From: Sherri Shieh <sherri.shieh@sun.com>
Subject: PSARC Meeting Minutes 02/08/2006 Inception: 2005/712; Inception:
 2005/745; Commitment: 2005/259
To: psarc@sun.com
Cc: Alok Aggarwal <Alok.Aggarwal@sun.com>, stephen.hahn@sun.com,
   "Rex G. Martin Jr." <rex.martin@sun.com>, paul.vonbehren@sun.com
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All,

Meeting minutes for 02/08/2006 are now available and are attached. Audio 
files are also available:

(1) http://sac.sfbay.sun.com/Archives/Minutes/PSARC/2006/20060208.arcbiz.mp3

(2) 
http://sac.sfbay.sun.com/Archives/Minutes/PSARC/2006/20060208.2005.712.inception.mp3

(3) 
http://sac.sfbay.sun.com/Archives/Minutes/PSARC/2006/20060208.2005.259.commitment.mp3


Sum up available at:
http://sac.sfbay.sun.com/Archives/Minutes/PSARC/2006/20060208.html


If you have any corrections/feedback, please direct them to me.

Thanks,
Sherri

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sherri Shieh
Program Manager, Systems Architecture
Sun Microsystems, Inc.


--Boundary_(ID_7Dn36adEqll+l/cZo/vl4w)
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            SYSTEM ARCHITECTURE COUNCIL
              Platform Software ARC
            ---------------------------------
        PSARC Regular Meeting time: Wednesdays
            10:00-1:00pm in MPK17-3507.


            02/08/2006 MEETING MINUTES
==============================================================
CORRECTIONS, additions, deletions to sherri.shieh@sun.com.
Minutes are archived in sac.Eng:/sac/export/sac/Minutes/PSARC.


ATTENDEES - Members:

        Joseph Kowalski:        no (on sabbatical)
        Glenn Skinner:          yes
        Robert Berube		no
        Andy Rudoff:            no (on sabbatical)
        James Carlson: 		yes
        Shudong Zhou:           no (out)
        Bill Sommerfeld:        yes
        Gary Winiger:           yes
        Tim Marsland:           no (on sabbatical)
	Ed Gould:               yes
	David Robinson		no (on sabbatical)

        Sherri Shieh:           yes


ATTENDEES- Interns:

        Don Cragun:             yes
        Peter Dennis:           no (on sabbatical)
        Wyllys Ingersoll:       no
        Rick Matthews:          yes
        Alec Muffett:           no (on sabbatical)
        James Falkner:          no (on sabbatical)
        Kais Belgaied:          no
        Phil Harman:            no
        Calum Mackay        	yes 
        Michael Speer		no
        Ienup Sung		no
	Cecilia Hu:	        no
	Brian Utterback 	yes
	Michael Haines		no
	Sebastien Roy		yes
	Alan Hargreaves		yes

Guests:	Tom Erikson
	Alok Aggarwal
	Dave Poll
	Stephen Hahn
	Spencer
	John Plocher
	Paul von Behren 
	Mike 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGENDA
-------
02/08/2006  (Glenn: ARC business only)
    10:00-10:10	project id
    10:10-10:20	ARC Business
    10:20-11:05 Inception: Over-the-wire Checksums for NFSv4 (2005/712)
                Submitter: Alok Aggarwal
                Owner: Jim Carlson
                Intern: Kais Belgaied
    11:05-11:50	Inception: SNEEP : Serial Number in EEPROM (2005/745)
		Submitter: Rex Martin
		Owner: Ed Gould
		Intern: Rick Matthews
    11:50-11:55	BREAK
    11:55-12:40	Commitment: Layered Trusted Solaris Label Interfaces
		(2005/259)
		Submitter: Gary Winiger
		Owner: Gary Winiger
		Intern: Rick Matthews
		Interest: lsarc-members@sun.com, rampart-dev-team@sun.com, 	
		trusted-jds@sun.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Case Anchors:
1) case 1: Over-the-wire Checksums for NFSv4 
(2005/712)

2) case 2: SNEEP : Serial Number in EEPROM (2005/745) 

3) case 3: Layered Trusted Solaris Label Interfaces 
(2005/259)
 
===========================================================================

ARC BUSINESS
--------------

Fast tracks
-----------
2006/027  Open Kerberos APIs                        Glenn Barry           
waiting fast-track 02/09/2006         Wyllys Ingersoll  
* Still have not heard from MIT - Glenn is trying to get a final word and 
should hear in a couple of days
* push it out another week

  
2006/053  Public Java classes for Solaris           David Powell/Stephen  
waiting fast-track 02/08/2006         Stephen Hahn       
* Approved
 
2006/054  DTrace JNI Binding                        Tom Erickson          
waiting fast-track 02/08/2006         Adam Leventhal     
* Approved
 
2006/061  xmemfs EOF                                Eric Lowe             
waiting fast-track 02/08/2006         Bart Smaalders    
* Approved

  
2006/062  CLIP Companion - command line interface   David Burrows         
waiting fast-track 02/09/2006         John Plocher     
* let it run

   
2006/063  Debug fp(7d) FCRAW Interface              Joel Buckley          
waiting fast-track 02/09/2006         Paul von Behren   
* Submitter should alter the IAM file to remove Debug
* Approved

  
2006/070  SO_TIMESTAMP Socket Option                Garima Tripathi       
waiting fast-track 02/13/2006         James Carlson      
* Approved
 
2006/073  PF_ROUTE: Include interface name with RT  Bill Sommerfeld       
waiting fast-track 2/13/2006          Bill Sommerfeld  
* Approved

   
2006/077  zpool_clear                               Eric Schrock          
waiting fast-track 02/13/2006         Jeff Bonwick     
* Approved
   
2006/078  DKIOCSETWCE                               Bill Baker            
waiting fast-track 02/13/2006         Jeff Bonwick        
* Approved






Other Business
--------------
*needing owner for:
Name:		SFWQuagga: SFW integration of Quagga routing suite (2005/571)
Submitter:	Paul Jakma
Owner:		Bill Sommerfeld
Intern:		Kais Belgaied
Interest:	quagga-iteam@Sun.COM, alan.maguire@sun.com	
Status:         inception scheduled 02/15/2006 

* needing owner/intern for:
Name:		Clearview: Network Interface Coherence (2005/132)
Submitter:	Sebastien Roy
Owner:		Ed Gould
Intern: 	Sebastien Roy
Interest:	
Status:         inception scheduled 02/15/2006 

Escalating Issues
-----------------
* What feedback are we supposed to be getting back from ARC chairs?
* Server processors issue?
* RBAK issue?
* What is the mechanism we have for expressing software requirements to the 
hardware teams?
(all this will be talked about tomorrow in ARC chairs)
==============================================================================

Inception: Over-the-wire Checksums for NFSv4 (2005/712)
Submitter: Alok Aggarwal
Owner: Jim Carlson
Intern: Kais Belgaied
                
                
SUMMARY
=======
* Advice - seperate umbrella case for the end-to-end case
* Clarify documents and provide more info

ISSUES
======
jdc-0	So, wow me with the error statistics.  How often are data
	corrupted in this way?  Do we have real-world results?

	Answer:
	 	* Data isn't corrupted very frequently this way, it's very
 	rare infact. But, when it happens it's pretty bad and
 	figuring out where (ethernet controller, the wire or software
 	stack) the corruption is happening is usually very tough.

 	As mentioned in section 3.1 of the one pager, checksums for
 	NFSv4 are motivated by a real world corruption case - one in which
 	the Solaris development community was bitten bitterly by a
 	bad router incriminating the software stack (specifically NFS).
 	If we had this project implemented at that time, we would have
 	caught the corruption right away.

* Would like more details about the one case of corruption.
* This case dates abck to June of 2003/2004 - this was NFS running over TCP. 
There was a bad router in one of the labs. Some of the corruption was going 
past the TCP checksum. However, there is a mechanism that does check the 
checksum algorithm.


jdc-1	Has any of this been discussed with other NFS-speaking
	vendors?  What do they think?  (Is there a chance of it
	becoming a standard extension?)

	Answer:
 	* I have presented this at the NAS Industry Conference in '05
 	and discussed this with other NFS vendors, there IS interest
 	in implementing this functionality. I'm 1-2 days away from
 	submitting an Internet Draft on this to the IETF NFSv4 WG
 	and depending upon the feedback there, there are chances this
 	will get adopted by other vendors.


jdc-2	Why NFSv4 specifically?  Aren't the issues you've outlined
	also applicable to essentially all networking applications?
	(Why is NFSv4 special?  Is it more vulnerable or fail more
	regularly than other protocols?  Or is the data it carries
	more valuable?)

	Answer:
 	* Because NFSv4 is the version of NFS protocol that's undergoing
 	active development and enhancement. NFS v2 and v3 are essentially
 	in maintenance mode (Solaris NFSv2/3 for example is in sustaining
 	currently).

 	The issues outlined are also applicable to other networking
 	protocols as well, yes - I'm not sure what you're getting at here
 	though. If the question is - why not just fix TCP - this has been
 	tried but didn't get any traction amongst the various TCP
 	implementors.

* This proposal does not cover the entire request.
* This project is just focusing on just the former and none of the underlying 
issues...


jdc-3	Relationship between this project and ZFS: are these the same
	checksums used by ZFS or is there a transform between the two?
	Why wouldn't the server side do the ZFS-related integrity
	check?  Are we effectively standardizing ZFS checksumming if
	we standardize this NFS extension?

	Answer:
 	* See section 4.4 of the one pager. There is no relationship between
 	this project and ZFS.

jdc-4	It seems to me that the checksum still isn't fully end-to-end,
	as the applications aren't involved.  Why is the krb5i RPC
	level not considered to be enough protection, but NFS level
	is?

	Answer:
	* See slides titled "Why-NFSv4-Checksums.pdf". NFSv4 checksum
 	still isn't end to end but it's a step closer to the end to
 	end data integrity goal. krb5i is great protection but you
 	need to have Kerberos configured to take advantage of it - do
 	we have kerberos configured say inside all of Sun right now?
 	NFS level checksums don't need any a priori kerberos configuration.

jdc-5	If it can be controlled with both share(1M) and mount(1M),
	what's the purpose of the system-wide tunable?

	Answer:
 	* With ZFS, you'll potentially have thousands of shares.
 	Turning off checksums per share can be cumbersome in that case,
 	this tunable with alleviate some of that pain.

jdc-6	Why SHA?  Is there an intent to provide some anti-tampering?
	If so, where are the keys?

	Answer:
 	* Because SHA is the checksum algorithm that's readily available
 	in the Solaris Kernel. Since this is checksumming we're talking
 	about, I'm not sure of the reference to anti-tampering.

* Jim: My concern here is that the compute power is way too strong here.
* The project team initially decided to use sha as the algorithm because it was 
readily available.

jdc-7	20q19: if the errors being covered are from design or coding
	problems, then no retries will help.  If they're just carried
	through from the underlying stable storage, then the answer
	depends on how the server side does retries (likely no client
	retry helps).  If we're actually checking for alpha particle
	strikes on main memory or checksum-ok-but-data-bad on the
	wire, then one or two should be sufficient.

	Answer:
	 	* Agreed

jdc-8	20q9: FMA might, someday, be a better answer than syslog, but
	probably not a requirement of this project.

	Answer:
		* Agreed

jdc-9	20q5: nit: nfsstat should be in this list.

	Answer:
	 	* Will add this to the list

kb-1. the private NFS_CKSUM sideband protocol interoperability with non solaris
  implementations

* The sideband that will be registered and used and will be done before the 
case is completed.


kb-2. any dependency on the future shareadm?

* None. However, the project team is aware of it and will change it if issues 
arise.


kb-3. algorithms naming and numbering
   3a. how would an administrator know the algorithm to pass to
 	# mount ... -o checksum= ?
	any option to dislay the supported list?
   3b  /etc/nfs/nfscksum.conf as a registrar for alorithms number-name mapping
	why not regular ASN/1 OID numbers, already in use for Kerberos, certs,
	etc ... in the sideband protocol messages.

kb-4. What's the value and need for allowing the checksum algorithm to be
   changeable for each operation independently, as opposed to be set and
   remain unchanged as long as the filesystem is mounted, or until a
   re-negotiation occurs ?

kb-5. Recovery from a failed READ. How's the bad checksum error propagated back
   to the server? How's the server to know about it and re-transmit?
   does it rely on the RPC layer to handle that?

kb-6. interaction with krb5 (section 3.8 of the design), what do you mean
   by "the checksums would be turned off" ? do you fail the mount in the
   first place? Do you allow it, but have the WRITE never add the OP_CHECKSUM
   yet have the READ tolerate and enforce it?

* Clarification of the design should be made here.


eg-1	20q9
	How does reading syslog have anything to do with tuning?

* This is an oversight on project team's part.


eg-2	20q13
	It seems to me that this case exports the new options to share and
	mount, as well as the new statistics counters.

* This will be changed.


gw-1	Why do we need another /etc file?  (/etc/nfs/nfschksum.conf)
	Can't we either include the information in the existing one(s),
	or as smf properties?

gw-2	20Q #17, How will this mechanism be flexible with a possible
	change in the industry?  What if alignment doesn't occur?

gw-3	Why not checksum at the RPC layer?  This sounds a lot like
	GSSAPI/SPNEGO.  Why can't that be used?

gw-4	Design #1, Please say more about interaction with ZFS, I'm
	not sure I understand the comment.

gw-5	I believe the data management folk are addressing similar issues,
	please touch base with them.
	
wes-1	How do you know the design & protocol is actually
	algorithm-agile unless you have more than one algorithm
	supported?  I strongly recommend implementing multiple checksum
	algorithms -- sha256 is likely to have a short shelf life.

* There will ab another migration after sha256. We would want to see at least 2 
algorithms implemented and a test where the availabilities are. 
* CRC32 was looked at by the p-team - it would be very easy to add this if 
neccessary.
   - P-team has had some initial chats with the crypto team.
* Any algorithm that the p-team needs should be discussed with the crypto team 
as well.   


wes-2 	what's the documented threat model?  if it's to protect against random/
	non-malicious corruption, should clarify this in the man pages
	since admins who know just enough about crypto to be dangerous
	may see "sha256" and assume it's good against malicious
	corruption..

* Tied with jdc-06
* BillS: It doesn't provide any protection against man-in-the-middle attacks.


wes-3   opinion fodder/advisory fodder: followon project to generate fma
	error reports from points in the networking stack (nfs,
	ip/tcp/udp/sctp/ah/esp/...) where bad checksums are detected.
	(diagnosis engine may be a research exercise but the in-stack
	instrumentation should be straightforward).

	


NEXT STEP
=========
* Project team will go back and resolve all issues from today's meeting.

--Boundary_(ID_7Dn36adEqll+l/cZo/vl4w)--

From sacadmin Thu May 25 14:08:52 2006
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Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 14:08:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: PSARC-coord@sun.com
Subject: New PSARC Materials Submitted 2005/712 Over-the-wire Checksums for
 NFSv4
To: PSARC@sun.com
Cc: Alok.Aggarwal@sun.com, PSARC-coord@sun.com
Message-id: <200605252108.k4PL8lPs014380@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
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Content-Length: 559

New Materials submitted for PSARC 2005/712 Over-the-wire Checksums for NFSv4
Status: commitment scheduled 06/07/2006

Files:
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/commitment.materials/20Questions
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/commitment.materials/Checksum.Design
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/commitment.materials/issues.answers
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/commitment.materials/mount_nfs.1m
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/commitment.materials/share_nfs.1m
/shared/sac/PSARC/2005/712/commitment.materials/Why-NFSv4-Checksums.pdf

Please let me know if you have questions.

- PSARC


From sac-owner Wed Jun  7 12:13:51 2006
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Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 12:13:43 -0700
From: Sherri Shieh <Sherri.Shieh@Sun.COM>
Subject: PSARC Case Approved 06/07/2006 - 2005/712
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PSARC approved 06/07/2006
          Case: Over-the-wire Checksums for NFSv4 (2005/712)
          Incompatible Changes: none
          Precedent: none

If more information is needed, please contact the case owner/intern.









