From don.cragun@sun.com Wed Nov 8 15:16:59 2006 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NGvWD016958 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA8NGSEa011411; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:16:50 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8F00M0BPZX3Q00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.146.226.64]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8F00H7WPZWEJ80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA8NGhfN021917; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:16:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:16:43 -0800 (PST) From: Don Cragun Subject: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] To: PSARC-EXT@sun.com Cc: garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Reply-to: Don Cragun Message-id: <200611082316.kA8NGhfN021917@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.5.5 SunOS 5.9 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-MD5: OWkr3jt9+s4rjukFFDrzRQ== X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 3359 Note that this is an open case and the e-mail discussion is being distributed to addresses outside of Sun... I am submitting this case for Garrett D'Amore (OpenSolaris contributor) and Carol Fields (Sun sponsor). This case seeks a patch binding. I believe it qualifies for self-review, but if anyone disagrees, let me know and I'll promote it to a fast track. This case gets rid of the only difference between /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs and replaces /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs with a symlink to /usr/bin/xargs for backwards compatibility. Sincerely, Don Cragun Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI This information Copyright 2006 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Carol Fields 1.3 Date of This Document: 08 November, 2006 4. Technical Description Problem ------- Solaris currently ships two versions of the "xargs" utility: one is the standard version located in /usr/bin, and the other is the POSIX version located in /usr/xpg6/bin. The xargs utility allows the use of the -E option to indicate that a different logical "EOF" string can be supplied in the standard input to terminate processing. The sole difference in the POSIX version is that it allows the use of an empty string ("") as an argument to the -E option, which it takes to mean that no logical EOF string is assumed. (I.e., the utility will continue processing until a real EOF is encountered on standard input.) The Sun version will produce an error message and exit code if provided the empty string. We believe that the POSIX behavior can be applied to the Sun code in a manner that is fully backwards compatible with existing usage, unifying this utility, simplifying documentation and removing the need to build and ship a different version of the program. This will also reduce by one the number of variances that the default /usr/bin utilities have against the corresponding POSIX utilities. Proposed Solution ----------------- We propose to eliminate the special check in the code that errors out for non-XPG6 code when "" is supplied as an argument to -E. We also propose to replace the file /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs with a link to /usr/bin/xargs, so that old programs that may have hardcoded the path to the XPG6 version of xargs can continue to operate properly. There will be a minor edit required for the xargs(1) man page to remove references to the XPG6 version of xargs, and to copy the text from the XPG6 version of the -E argument to the stock version. Binding ------- We are seeking patch binding for this change. Interface Taxonomy ------------------ Interface Stability Level Comments -------------------- ---------------------------- ------------------------- /usr/bin/xargs: Committed: See standards(5) /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs: Committed Symlink to /usr/bin/xargs 5. Reference Documents 1. Bug report 6487582: xargs: /usr/bin/xargs should acquire the same /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs behavior 2. updated xargs(1) man page: materials/xargs.1 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: ON 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack From Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM Thu Nov 9 04:32:10 2006 Received: from sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.180]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CWAi9008061 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9CWAR22434; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8G00B0LQTMPL00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 05:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.5]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8G0086BQTKVP30@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 05:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from d1-emea-10.sun.com (d1-emea-10.sun.com [192.18.2.120] (may be forged)) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9CW8EA020968; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:32:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-10.sun.com by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0J8G00J01QSL0H00@d1-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:32:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.73.101] (nessieroo.force9.co.uk [81.174.224.49]) by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0J8G0040FQTF1510@d1-emea-10.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:32:08 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:32:01 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611082316.kA8NGhfN021917@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@Sun.COM Message-id: <45531FC1.4000807@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611082316.kA8NGhfN021917@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060925) Status: RO Content-Length: 499 Don Cragun wrote: > We also propose to replace the file /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs with a link to > /usr/bin/xargs, so that old programs that may have hardcoded the path > to the XPG6 version of xargs can continue to operate properly. Is this intended to be the architecture of reference for when we fully unify an xpg?/bin variant with its bin variant ? That is symlinks must be provided ? I'm okay if that is the case, I just want to know of this case is setting new case law. -- Darren J Moffat From casper@holland.sun.com Thu Nov 9 04:44:33 2006 Received: from sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM (sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.17]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CiWFU008669 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.28]) by sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9CiW920323 for <@sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM>; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) id <0J8G00M03RE66V00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 04:44:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunnl.holland.sun.com ([129.159.201.1]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J8G00JH6RE56E20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 04:44:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaticaan.holland.sun.com (vaticaan [129.159.201.10]) by sunnl.holland.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9CiOSk017374; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:44:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from holland (casper@room101 [129.159.201.52]) by vaticaan.holland.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9CiNH8005026; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:44:23 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:44:23 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <45531FC1.4000807@Sun.COM> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Message-id: <200611091244.kA9CiNH8005026@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611082316.kA8NGhfN021917@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <45531FC1.4000807@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 595 >Don Cragun wrote: >> We also propose to replace the file /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs with a link to >> /usr/bin/xargs, so that old programs that may have hardcoded the path >> to the XPG6 version of xargs can continue to operate properly. > >Is this intended to be the architecture of reference for when we fully >unify an xpg?/bin variant with its bin variant ? That is symlinks must >be provided ? > >I'm okay if that is the case, I just want to know of this case is >setting new case law. I thought we never used the full pathnames and that setting $PATH was the only supported way? Casper From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Thu Nov 9 04:57:13 2006 Received: from sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.180]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CvClw009128 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.28]) by sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9Cv6R08973; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) id <0J8G0001RRZ58200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 04:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J8G00J9ARZ46J40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 04:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9D08E0023596; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id kA9D08dc023593; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:00:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:00:08 -0500 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611091244.kA9CiNH8005026@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> To: Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Message-id: <17747.9816.584008.824360@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611082316.kA8NGhfN021917@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <45531FC1.4000807@Sun.COM> <200611091244.kA9CiNH8005026@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1078 Casper.Dik@Sun.COM writes: > >I'm okay if that is the case, I just want to know of this case is > >setting new case law. > > > I thought we never used the full pathnames and that setting $PATH was > the only supported way? No, that's not true. This has been discussed here before: we have always supported "cherry-picking" of standards-conformant utilities from outside of the standards-conformant environment -- in part because of the annoying divergence in several cases (including, for example, 'id'). The only supported way of getting a fully conformant environment is by setting $PATH correctly, but that doesn't mean you can't use particular applications independently. Though it'd be nice to drain out those directories entirely, leaving behind a symlink seems to me to be a cheap way of making sure that we don't introduce extra breakage. -- James Carlson, KISS Network Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM Thu Nov 9 05:21:47 2006 Received: from sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.180]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9DLlkk009273 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9DLlR02292; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8G00D0HT49QO00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:21:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.5]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8G00850T48VS70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:21:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from d1-emea-10.sun.com (d1-emea-10.sun.com [192.18.2.120] (may be forged)) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9DLhNU027405; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:21:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-10.sun.com by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0J8G00M01T2JCN00@d1-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:21:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.73.101] (nessieroo.force9.co.uk [81.174.224.49]) by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0J8G0040HT461610@d1-emea-10.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:21:43 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:21:41 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611091244.kA9CiNH8005026@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM To: Casper.Dik@Sun.COM Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@Sun.COM Message-id: <45532B65.8050904@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611082316.kA8NGhfN021917@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <45531FC1.4000807@Sun.COM> <200611091244.kA9CiNH8005026@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060925) Status: RO Content-Length: 1144 Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote: >> Don Cragun wrote: >>> We also propose to replace the file /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs with a link to >>> /usr/bin/xargs, so that old programs that may have hardcoded the path >>> to the XPG6 version of xargs can continue to operate properly. >> Is this intended to be the architecture of reference for when we fully >> unify an xpg?/bin variant with its bin variant ? That is symlinks must >> be provided ? >> >> I'm okay if that is the case, I just want to know of this case is >> setting new case law. > > > I thought we never used the full pathnames and that setting $PATH was > the only supported way? That is what I believe POSIX requires because the pathnames are vendor specific. However we know that people do stuff like /usr/xpg4/bin/id in script and my understanding was that the project team believed that those scripts shouldn't break (in this case it is xargs). I was asking if this is the stance we want to take or do we want to take the strict POSIX stance. In some ways I believe we already have case law to cover this in the case that moved /usr/proc/bin/* to /usr/bin. -- Darren J Moffat From don.cragun@sun.com Thu Nov 9 07:29:58 2006 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FTvjW011862 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9FTnuJ008691; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:29:54 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8G00705Z1UV400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.146.226.64]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8G00JZGZ1UZMC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA9FTrnX022801; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:29:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:29:53 -0800 (PST) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] Cc: PSARC-EXT@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Reply-to: Don Cragun Message-id: <200611091529.kA9FTrnX022801@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.5.5 SunOS 5.9 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-MD5: uwzFnwesz+EnNZgOCwyBFA== X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 1965 >Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:21:41 +0000 >From: Darren J Moffat > >Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote: >>> Don Cragun wrote: >>>> We also propose to replace the file /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs with a link to >>>> /usr/bin/xargs, so that old programs that may have hardcoded the path >>>> to the XPG6 version of xargs can continue to operate properly. >>> Is this intended to be the architecture of reference for when we fully >>> unify an xpg?/bin variant with its bin variant ? That is symlinks must >>> be provided ? >>> >>> I'm okay if that is the case, I just want to know of this case is >>> setting new case law. >> >> >> I thought we never used the full pathnames and that setting $PATH was >> the only supported way? > >That is what I believe POSIX requires because the pathnames are vendor >specific. > >However we know that people do stuff like /usr/xpg4/bin/id in script and >my understanding was that the project team believed that those scripts >shouldn't break (in this case it is xargs). I was asking if this is the >stance we want to take or do we want to take the strict POSIX stance. > >In some ways I believe we already have case law to cover this in the >case that moved /usr/proc/bin/* to /usr/bin. Casper & Darren, The only way for a POSIX.1-2001 conforming application to find a standard utility is to set PATH to the implementation specific value that specifies where the standard utilities are located. But, having done that, an application can search that path for the location of any given standard utility as part of an initialization process and then use an absolute path to execute it. Since this search could be run at application installation time, I think it is necessary to install the symlink for this case. The project team is not trying to set precedent by doing this, but I would expect it to be used frequently in similar cases to avoid backwards compatibility problems. - Don > >-- >Darren J Moffat From Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM Thu Nov 9 07:34:47 2006 Received: from sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM (sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.17]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FYk9b011898 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:34:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9FYk920390; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:34:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8G0080TZ9VG500@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:34:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.5]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8G00J6LZ9RZ4D0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com (d1-emea-09.sun.com [192.18.2.119] (may be forged)) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9FYdRV016046; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:34:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0J8G00201Z75K900@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:34:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.73.101] (nessieroo.force9.co.uk [81.174.224.49]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0J8G00CX7Z9QFT10@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:34:39 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:34:37 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611091529.kA9FTrnX022801@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@Sun.COM Message-id: <45534A8D.8080406@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611091529.kA9FTrnX022801@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060925) Status: RO Content-Length: 573 Don Cragun wrote: > The project team is not trying to set precedent by doing this, but I > would expect it to be used frequently in similar cases to avoid > backwards compatibility problems. Is there any reason why we shouldn't set precedent here ? Given what you said about standards compliant applications being allowed to use the full path I think that says that we always want these symlinks when we unify a /usr/bin and /usr/xpg?/bin utility otherwise things will break. In case it isn't clear I think this case should be setting precedent. -- Darren J Moffat From don.cragun@sun.com Thu Nov 9 07:58:20 2006 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FwJCE012840 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9FwEoQ023258; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:58:17 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H00A190D31L00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:58:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.146.226.64]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00JD30D1ZCF0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:58:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA9FwDGj022830; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:58:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:58:13 -0800 (PST) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] To: PSARC-EXT@sun.com Cc: garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Reply-to: Don Cragun Message-id: <200611091558.kA9FwDGj022830@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.5.5 SunOS 5.9 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-MD5: qkcLoWXu063NGkpMrJNYGw== X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 1571 >Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:34:37 +0000 >From: Darren J Moffat > >Don Cragun wrote: >> The project team is not trying to set precedent by doing this, but I >> would expect it to be used frequently in similar cases to avoid >> backwards compatibility problems. > >Is there any reason why we shouldn't set precedent here ? I don't think we need a precedent to use due diligence. If a project team or any review committee (including PSARC) believes that moving or removing a utility will break applications, the project team either needs to install a link (hard or symbolic) or find and fix applications that may be affected by the change. This just seems to me to be common sense. > >Given what you said about standards compliant applications being allowed >to use the full path I think that says that we always want these >symlinks when we unify a /usr/bin and /usr/xpg?/bin utility otherwise >things will break. If we end up removing a /usr/xpg*/bin utility due to a fix required by an interpretation request (which intentionally changes behavior), a project team may decide not to install a symlink. (I'm not concerned about any precedent if this issue comes up; any project that does this would be granted an exception if needed. I'm just saying that "always" may be too strong.) > >In case it isn't clear I think this case should be setting precedent. Is this a formal request to turn this into a fast track to set a precedent? (If I remember correctly, a self-reviewed case can't set a precedent.) - Don > >-- >Darren J Moffat From Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM Thu Nov 9 08:06:25 2006 Received: from sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM (sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.17]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9G6ORt012887 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9G6O920551; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:06:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H00A0J0QMQ900@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.5]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00AYE0QL3B00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com (d1-emea-09.sun.com [192.18.2.119] (may be forged)) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9G6LZ3020271; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:06:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0J8H00C010QFQ900@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:06:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.73.101] (nessieroo.force9.co.uk [81.174.224.49]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0J8H00C180QJFT20@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:06:19 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:06:18 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611091558.kA9FwDGj022830@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@Sun.COM Message-id: <455351FA.7080505@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611091558.kA9FwDGj022830@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060925) Status: RO Content-Length: 832 Don Cragun wrote: > If we end up removing a /usr/xpg*/bin utility due to a fix required by > an interpretation request (which intentionally changes behavior), a > project team may decide not to install a symlink. (I'm not concerned > about any precedent if this issue comes up; any project that does this > would be granted an exception if needed. I'm just saying that "always" > may be too strong.) > >> In case it isn't clear I think this case should be setting precedent. > > Is this a formal request to turn this into a fast track to set a > precedent? (If I remember correctly, a self-reviewed case can't set a > precedent.) Before causing more "paper work" I'd like to hear what other members think. I'm currently thinking that just having had this discussion in the case may well be sufficient. -- Darren J Moffat From garrett_damore@tadpole.com Thu Nov 9 08:13:10 2006 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9GDAvo012958 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9GD1hQ004385; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:13:07 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H00B2111V4Z00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:13:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.42.13]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00AIV11U3510@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:13:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14] (may be forged)) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9FV7FI010782; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:13:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mms06es.sun.com ([150.143.104.114] [150.143.104.114]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:53:29 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay02i.sun.com ([150.143.60.72] [150.143.60.72]) by mms06es.sun.com with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:53:28 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail.tadpolecomputer.co.uk ([82.111.17.14] [82.111.17.14]) by relay0i.sun.com with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:49:28 +0000 (Z) Received: from zippy.garrett ([192.168.251.21]) by mail.tadpolecomputer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiC7u-0006nV-NI; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:47:39 +0000 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:47:36 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <45534A8D.8080406@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Message-id: <45534D98.9000208@tadpole.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 X-Virus-Checker: Scanned by ClamAV (http://www.clamav.net/) References: <200611091529.kA9FTrnX022801@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <45534A8D.8080406@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1587 Darren J Moffat wrote: > Don Cragun wrote: >> The project team is not trying to set precedent by doing this, but I >> would expect it to be used frequently in similar cases to avoid >> backwards compatibility problems. > > Is there any reason why we shouldn't set precedent here ? > > Given what you said about standards compliant applications being > allowed to use the full path I think that says that we always want > these symlinks when we unify a /usr/bin and /usr/xpg?/bin utility > otherwise things will break. > > In case it isn't clear I think this case should be setting precedent. > I don't mind formalizing the precedent, but this will not be the first such symlink. /usr/xpg4/bin/ipcs is a symbolic link to /usr/bin on my Solaris 10 system. Whether that was covered by a PSARC case or not is not clear to me. I definitely believe that we should not remove wholesale, the contents of /usr/xpg?/bin. Those paths have long been documented in manual pages, and thus represent an interface (regardless of what POSIX specifies). A symbolic link is cheap, and will keep some things from breaking. If someday in the future, we want to remove /usr/xpg4, then I think that would need to be a separate case, and is far far more likely to be contentious (IMO) than what I'm proposing to do here, which is basically a "no-brainer" in that we aren't busting any old interfaces. -- Garrett D'Amore, Principal Software Engineer Tadpole Computer / Computing Technologies Division, General Dynamics C4 Systems http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/ Phone: 951 325-2134 Fax: 951 325-2191 From Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM Thu Nov 9 11:38:54 2006 Received: from sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.180]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9JcsVI018860 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2.sfbay.sun.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9JcsR18119; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H0051ZAKUAV00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H003UMAKT2HA0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.108.183]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9JcqSV003154; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com ([129.147.156.111]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00584AKSBDQ3@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.150.48.193] by bedge3-mail1.central.sun.com (mshttpd); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:52 -0700 From: Joel Buckley Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <455351FA.7080505@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@Sun.COM Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_N3skKsq3NkeS/mzKrKXmFA)" Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611091558.kA9FwDGj022830@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <455351FA.7080505@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 3024 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_N3skKsq3NkeS/mzKrKXmFA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline > > Before causing more "paper work" I'd like to hear what other > members > think. I'm currently thinking that just having had this discussion > in > the case may well be sufficient. > > -- > Darren J Moffat > Darren, et.al., I believe precedent is already set by "/usr/xpg6/bin/stty". My suggestion is to obsolete & EOF the xpg6 directory entirely: 1. merge the remaining "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" utilities into "/usr/bin/*" equivalents and replace "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" with softlink, consistent with "stty" below. /usr/xpg6/bin/stty=../../../usr/bin/stty l none SUNWxcu6 2. After remaining "/usr/xpg6/..." entries are all softlinks to "/usr/..." equivalents, the SUNWxcu6 packages could be simplified to the following and marked for End Of Feature (EOF) in the next appropriate Solaris release: /usr d none 0755 root sys SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6=../usr l none SUNWxcu6 A full listing of the few SUNWxcu6 items is listed below. Cheers, Joel Current SUNWxcu6 entries: $ grep SUNWxcu6 /var/sadm/install/contents | more /usr d none 0755 root sys SUNWcsu ... /usr/xpg6 d none 0755 root bin SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin d none 0755 root bin SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/bc f none 0555 root bin 27092 4295 1144017621 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/dc f none 0555 root bin 38996 49961 1144017621 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/ed f none 0555 root bin 42952 46491 1144017621 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/edit f none 0555 root bin 226008 759 1144017621 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/ex=../../../usr/xpg6/bin/edit l none SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/expr f none 0555 root bin 18104 2802 1144017621 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/getconf f none 0555 root bin 23360 18855 1144017622 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/ls f none 0555 root bin 23528 63932 1144017622 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/stty=../../../usr/bin/stty l none SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/tr f none 0555 root bin 17416 22035 1144017622 SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/vedit=../../../usr/xpg6/bin/edit l none SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/vi=../../../usr/xpg6/bin/edit l none SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/view=../../../usr/xpg6/bin/edit l none SUNWxcu6 /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs f none 0555 root bin 21932 27275 1144017622 SUNWxcu6 Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM JIST Development Lead 303-272-5556, x75556 "Luck is a Planned Event." - --Boundary_(ID_N3skKsq3NkeS/mzKrKXmFA) Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=Joel.Buckley.vcf; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=Joel.Buckley.vcf Content-description: Card for Joel Buckley begin:vcard n:Buckley;Joel fn:Joel W. Buckley tel;fax:303-272-4194 tel;home:720-226-9370 tel;work:303-272-5556 url:sse.sfbay/interop/jist org:Storage Group;System Test adr:;;500 Eldorado Blvd., BRM05, Room3196;Broomfield;Colorado;80021-3400;USA version:2.1 email;internet:Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM title:JIST Development Lead end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_N3skKsq3NkeS/mzKrKXmFA)-- From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Thu Nov 9 11:51:25 2006 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9JpOHS019614 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9Jp96N021743; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 03:51:16 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H0053FB5DS600@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:51:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00342B5A2AD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:51:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9JsEKR004231; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:54:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id kA9JsEIv004228; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:54:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:54:14 -0500 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: To: Joel Buckley Cc: Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Message-id: <17747.34662.189671.714302@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611091558.kA9FwDGj022830@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <455351FA.7080505@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 671 Joel Buckley writes: > My suggestion is to obsolete & EOF the xpg6 directory entirely: Careful; there have been packaging bugs related to switching an object between type 'd' (directory) and type 's' (symlink). If we can do this, we should do it to /usr/proc as well. There's nothing useful there. > /usr d none 0755 root sys SUNWxcu6 > /usr/xpg6=../usr l none SUNWxcu6 I think you'll want a symlink rather than a hard link for that. -- James Carlson, KISS Network Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From casper@holland.sun.com Thu Nov 9 11:56:16 2006 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9JuFEN020059 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9JuCt3005766 for <@sunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM>; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H00523BDRYG00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:56:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from sunnl.holland.sun.com ([129.159.201.1]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H003WBBDP2GD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaticaan.holland.sun.com (vaticaan [129.159.201.10]) by sunnl.holland.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9Ju147000147; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:56:01 +0100 (MET) Received: from holland (casper@room101 [129.159.201.52]) by vaticaan.holland.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9Ju10X012127; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:56:01 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:56:01 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <17747.34662.189671.714302@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: Joel Buckley , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Message-id: <200611091956.kA9Ju10X012127@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611091558.kA9FwDGj022830@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <455351FA.7080505@Sun.COM> <17747.34662.189671.714302@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 484 >Joel Buckley writes: >> My suggestion is to obsolete & EOF the xpg6 directory entirely: > >Careful; there have been packaging bugs related to switching an object >between type 'd' (directory) and type 's' (symlink). One issue is that such changes fail when there are additional files in such a directory; e.g., ugrade turds (*~11) or operator installed files. In such cases the directory will not be removed; if we could have it move to dir~11, then that should be fine. Casper From don.cragun@sun.com Thu Nov 9 12:34:54 2006 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KYoO3020797 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9KYnhB017709; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:34:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H0050PD61HB00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:34:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.146.226.64]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00KZLD61LI90@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:34:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA9KYnn1024113; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:34:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:34:49 -0800 (PST) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] To: Joel.Buckley@sun.com Cc: PSARC-EXT@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Reply-to: Don Cragun Message-id: <200611092034.kA9KYnn1024113@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.5.5 SunOS 5.9 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-MD5: EMq4WLl/Ux9xrMYXiLzFfA== X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 1637 >Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:52 -0700 >From: Joel Buckley > ... ... ... > >I believe precedent is already set by "/usr/xpg6/bin/stty". > >My suggestion is to obsolete & EOF the xpg6 directory entirely: > >1. merge the remaining "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" utilities into "/usr/bin/*" equivalents >and replace "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" with softlink, consistent with "stty" below. > > /usr/xpg6/bin/stty=../../../usr/bin/stty l none SUNWxcu6 > >2. After remaining "/usr/xpg6/..." entries are all softlinks to "/usr/..." equivalents, >the SUNWxcu6 packages could be simplified to the following and marked for >End Of Feature (EOF) in the next appropriate Solaris release: > > /usr d none 0755 root sys SUNWxcu6 > /usr/xpg6=../usr l none SUNWxcu6 Hi Joel, To do what you suggest, we must first agree that Sun will stop supporting multiple, conflicting revisions of various standards (especially the System V ABIs, the POSIX standards, and the Single UNIX Specifications). That clearly IS NOT this case. Until we agree that Sun should stop supporting multiple standards (and I don't see me ever agreeing to that), I don't believe we will ever be able to have only /usr/bin as the only directory needed to contain conforming utilities). Even if everything else could magically be aligned, we will need more than one version of the getconf utility. (Try the commands: /usr/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION /usr/xpg4/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION /usr/xpg6/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION to see one trivial difference.) - Don P.S. Note that this case continues to have status "closed approved automatic 11/08/2006". From garrett_damore@tadpole.com Thu Nov 9 14:14:02 2006 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9ME1Gd023464 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9MDjv9006180; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:13:52 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8H00A0RHR1XW00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from nwkea-mail-5.sun.com ([192.18.42.27]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H006ZQHR0CKC0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay3.sun.com (relay3.sun.com [150.143.103.54] (may be forged)) by nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9MBb4V005725; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mms0aes.sun.com ([150.143.104.194] [150.143.104.194]) by relay3.sun.com with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:12:42 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms03bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (mms03bas.mms.us.syntegra.com [150.143.103.50]) by mms0aes.sun.com with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:12:42 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail.tadpolecomputer.co.uk ([82.111.17.14] [82.111.17.14]) by relay3.sun.com with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:12:42 +0000 (Z) Received: from zippy.garrett ([192.168.251.21]) by mail.tadpolecomputer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiI8Q-000325-J0; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:12:35 +0000 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:12:32 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611091956.kA9Ju10X012127@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> To: Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: James Carlson , Joel Buckley , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com Message-id: <4553A7D0.5000106@tadpole.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 X-Virus-Checker: Scanned by ClamAV (http://www.clamav.net/) References: <200611091558.kA9FwDGj022830@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> <455351FA.7080505@Sun.COM> <17747.34662.189671.714302@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200611091956.kA9Ju10X012127@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1053 Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote: >> Joel Buckley writes: >> >>> My suggestion is to obsolete & EOF the xpg6 directory entirely: >>> >> Careful; there have been packaging bugs related to switching an object >> between type 'd' (directory) and type 's' (symlink). >> > > > One issue is that such changes fail when there are additional files in > such a directory; e.g., ugrade turds (*~11) or operator installed > files. In such cases the directory will not be removed; if we could > have it move to dir~11, then that should be fine. > > Casper > Have all the other reasons for having a /usr/xpg6/bin been addressed? It was never clear to me that this had been done. I'm only tackling xargs, not the whole directory. Some of the utilities (such as "tr") are closed source, so I can't work on them even if I wanted to. -- Garrett -- Garrett D'Amore, Principal Software Engineer Tadpole Computer / Computing Technologies Division, General Dynamics C4 Systems http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/ Phone: 951 325-2134 Fax: 951 325-2191 From Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM Thu Nov 9 14:18:30 2006 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MISEO023648 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.28]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kA9MIQTd004351; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:18:26 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) id <0J8H00301HYP3I00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:18:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J8H0029WHYOW700@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:18:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.108.184]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kA9MINLq017544; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:18:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com ([129.147.156.111]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00IP6HYN1PZ3@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:18:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.150.48.193] by bedge3-mail1.central.sun.com (mshttpd); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:18:23 -0700 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:18:23 -0700 From: Joel Buckley Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611092034.kA9KYnn1024113@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM, garrett_damore@tadpole.com, Carol.Fields@Sun.COM Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/Bbop6EEWgA0hO9u+Af0zA)" Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611092034.kA9KYnn1024113@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 2709 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_/Bbop6EEWgA0hO9u+Af0zA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline From: Don Cragun Date: Thursday, November 9, 2006 1:37 pm > >Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:52 -0700 > >From: Joel Buckley > > > ... ... ... > > > >I believe precedent is already set by "/usr/xpg6/bin/stty". > > > >My suggestion is to obsolete & EOF the xpg6 directory entirely: > > > >1. merge the remaining "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" utilities into > > "/usr/bin/*" equivalents nd replace "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" with > > softlink, consistent with "stty" below. > > > > /usr/xpg6/bin/stty=../../../usr/bin/stty l none SUNWxcu6 > > > >2. IF all entries can be merged and after remaining > > "/usr/xpg6/..." entries are all softlinks to "/usr/..." > > equivalents, the SUNWxcu6 packages could be simplified > > to the following and marked for > >End Of Feature (EOF) in the next appropriate Solaris release: > > > > /usr d none 0755 root sys SUNWxcu6 > > /usr/xpg6=../usr l none SUNWxcu6 > > Hi Joel, > To do what you suggest, we must first agree that Sun will stop > supporting multiple, conflicting revisions of various standards > (especially the System V ABIs, the POSIX standards, and the Single > UNIXSpecifications). That clearly IS NOT this case. Until we > agree that > Sun should stop supporting multiple standards (and I don't see me ever > agreeing to that), I don't believe we will ever be able to have only > /usr/bin as the only directory needed to contain conforming > utilities). Even if everything else could magically be aligned, we > will need more than one version of the getconf utility. (Try the > commands: > /usr/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION > /usr/xpg4/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION > /usr/xpg6/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION > to see one trivial difference.) > With that in mind, I then withdraw step 2 above... and only suggest doing step 1 where possible. Thanks for listening, Joel. --Boundary_(ID_/Bbop6EEWgA0hO9u+Af0zA) Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=Joel.Buckley.vcf; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=Joel.Buckley.vcf Content-description: Card for Joel Buckley begin:vcard n:Buckley;Joel fn:Joel W. Buckley tel;fax:303-272-4194 tel;home:720-226-9370 tel;work:303-272-5556 url:sse.sfbay/interop/jist org:Storage Group;System Test adr:;;500 Eldorado Blvd., BRM05, Room3196;Broomfield;Colorado;80021-3400;USA version:2.1 email;internet:Joel.Buckley@Sun.COM title:JIST Development Lead end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_/Bbop6EEWgA0hO9u+Af0zA)-- From iszczesniak@gmail.com Mon Nov 13 05:50:52 2006 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDop8r012117 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:50:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kADDojjb011602 for <@sunmail3.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:50:50 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0J8O00C0194PV900@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.42.14]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8O005JD94OJGE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay12.sun.com (relay12.sun.com [217.140.40.34] (may be forged)) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kADDoloA027536 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mms13es.sun.com ([160.41.223.54] [160.41.223.54]) by relay12.sun.com with ESMTP for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:50:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay13.sun.com (relay13.sun.com [217.140.40.54]) by mms13es.sun.com with ESMTP for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:50:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.171] [66.249.92.171]) by relay13.sun.com with ESMTP for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:36:22 +0000 (Z) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id z27so1056893ugc for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:35:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.136.9 with SMTP id j9mr6241385hud.1163424900837; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.155.4 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:35:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:35:00 +0100 From: "I. Szczesniak" Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: <200611092034.kA9KYnn1024113@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> To: Don Cragun Cc: Joel.Buckley@sun.com, PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=q5kM/1A4aCWT+zh5Us3wiifC1Un9BF9odcFpbaRlUhjlx7bmbsB39T6KLIK15/BlwHtOlLM1WCixXAliYHVV3h4si7hN3veuG/gsHxu7paCRN5spQBnv6ftz5ZvfozoKFJRt1M/Sf9VwjFF1URpOvEOmsthQ/XrA+LeTve5z1Ik= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611092034.kA9KYnn1024113@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 2741 On 11/9/06, Don Cragun wrote: > >Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:38:52 -0700 > >From: Joel Buckley > > > ... ... ... > > > >I believe precedent is already set by "/usr/xpg6/bin/stty". > > > >My suggestion is to obsolete & EOF the xpg6 directory entirely: > > > >1. merge the remaining "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" utilities into "/usr/bin/*" > equivalents > >and replace "/usr/xpg6/bin/*" with softlink, consistent with "stty" below. > > > > /usr/xpg6/bin/stty=../../../usr/bin/stty l none SUNWxcu6 > > > >2. After remaining "/usr/xpg6/..." entries are all softlinks to "/usr/..." > equivalents, > >the SUNWxcu6 packages could be simplified to the following and marked for > >End Of Feature (EOF) in the next appropriate Solaris release: > > > > /usr d none 0755 root sys SUNWxcu6 > > /usr/xpg6=../usr l none SUNWxcu6 > > Hi Joel, > To do what you suggest, we must first agree that Sun will stop > supporting multiple, conflicting revisions of various standards > (especially the System V ABIs, the POSIX standards, and the Single UNIX > Specifications). That clearly IS NOT this case. Until we agree that > Sun should stop supporting multiple standards (and I don't see me ever > agreeing to that), I don't believe we will ever be able to have only > /usr/bin as the only directory needed to contain conforming > utilities). Even if everything else could magically be aligned, we > will need more than one version of the getconf utility. (Try the > commands: > /usr/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION > /usr/xpg4/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION > /usr/xpg6/bin/getconf _XOPEN_VERSION > to see one trivial difference.) Don, which standard defines the behaviour of the utilities in /bin? The sorry state of these tools, including ksh, is the reason why we're close to drop Solaris support from our products. Whatever standard forces Sun to ship a disaster like /usr/bin/tr which is not even capable of handling Asian characters or the EURO currency symbol should be dropped from the distribution. This is just one of the smaller examples which drives the porting, development and maintenance costs beyond an acceptable point. Maintaining a Solaris port is more resource intensive than ANY other operating system, even in comparison to MacOS 10. Sun now has to decide whether they are willing to support the development of new software on their operating system or maintain backwards compatibility to their obsolete tools at all costs, even at the expense of the software companies who want to port, develop or maintain their software products on Solaris. I think that Solaris needs a modernisation project to rework the base tooling and applications. Irek From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Mon Nov 13 06:07:37 2006 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADE7bo9012553 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.149.246.28]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id kADE7ZJj018197; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) id <0J8O005019WNPI00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 (built Dec 2 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J8O00JSQ9WM6DE0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADEAfXN015254; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:10:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id kADEAfXL015251; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:10:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:10:41 -0500 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: /usr/bin/xargs and /usr/xpg6/bin/xargs consolidation: [PSARC/2006/629 Automatic] In-reply-to: To: "I. Szczesniak" Cc: Don Cragun , Joel.Buckley@sun.com, PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Carol.Fields@sun.com, garrett_damore@tadpole.com Message-id: <17752.31969.45630.722728@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200611092034.kA9KYnn1024113@spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 1033 I. Szczesniak writes: > sorry state of these tools, including ksh, is the reason why we're > close to drop Solaris support from our products. Whatever standard > forces Sun to ship a disaster like /usr/bin/tr which is not even > capable of handling Asian characters or the EURO currency symbol > should be dropped from the distribution. Please check the subject line again. This PSARC case describes a change to 'xargs.' It has nothing to do with tr, ksh, or any other utility in Solaris. This isn't the right place to complain about those "disasters." > I think that Solaris needs a modernisation project to rework the base > tooling and applications. opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org would be a good place to propose such a project, and to discuss the proposed scope. This isn't that mailing list. -- James Carlson, KISS Network Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677