From sacadmin Wed Apr 25 08:56:38 2007 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PFubYR003014; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from darrenm@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l3PFubcW003010; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:56:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Darren J Moffat Message-Id: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, shell-discussion@opensolaris.org Subject: Default shell environment: TMPDIR [PSARC/2007/236 Timeout: 05/02/2007] Status: RO Content-Length: 3028 Subject: PSARC FastTrack [05/02/2007]: Default shell environment: TMPDIR Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Default shell environment: TMPDIR 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Roland Mainz 1.3 Date of This Document: 25 April, 2007 4. Technical Description Default shell environment enhancements: TMPDIR Description and Justification: This case proposes to introduce a set of enhancements for the default shell environment in Solaris to provide a more user-friendly environment for new users which are not yet familar with all the details in Unix and to provide some help for adminstrators via introducing better system-wide defaults and more configuration options. The proposed changes are: - A modification to "/etc/profile" (and the matching csh file) to set TMPDIR to "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" if TMPDIR was not set yet. If the directory specified by "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" does not exist "/etc/profile"&co. will be responsible for creating this directory with the same permissions as the current "/tmp". If the directory already exists "/etc/profile"&co. is responsible to check whether the directory is owned by the current user (e.g. $ /usr/bin/test -O dir #) and writeable (e.g. /usr/bin/test -w dir #), if these conditions are not met TMPDIR will not be set. The purpose of this change is to provide a "cleaner" layout of the /tmp filesystem on large multiuser systems - instead of storing zillions of files of various users into one directory it may be better to provide something like a "home directory for temporary files", e.g. create one subdir per user to store the temporary files there. This would allow users and adminstrators to find their own temporary files more easily and would avoid that something like $ ls -l /tmp # returns a few thousand files of thousands of users. A disadvantage is that "/tmp" will fill-up with per-user directories over time, however this is still better than having all files in one flat directory which makes even simple searches for some files difficult if the "/tmp"-directory contains too many files (a future sub-project of the OpenSolaris.org "shell" project will look at this problem again and may provide at least a simple way to cleanup empry directories). Notes: - The TMPDIR is set in "/etc/profile" for the whole machine but users are always allowed to override these settings in their local environment files (e.g. ~/.profile, ~/.kshrc, ~/.bashrc) on demand. Interfaces: Interface Stability Description ========= ========= =========== env-var "TMPDIR" Committed Environment variable to define a directory where temporary files should be stored. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: ON 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack From sacadmin Wed Apr 25 12:32:46 2007 Received: from eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM [129.148.9.49]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PJWkVV018381; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunk.east.sun.com (thunk.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.66]) by eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3PJVrJI013691; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thunk.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PJVrPl006067; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 2007/236 TMPDIR in default shell environment From: Bill Sommerfeld To: Darren J Moffat Cc: PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, shell-discussion@opensolaris.org In-Reply-To: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:31:52 -0400 Message-Id: <1177529512.4494.15.camel@thunk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.8.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1037 (note: I rearranged the subject line to make better use of limited space) > If the directory specified > by "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" does not exist "/etc/profile"&co. will be responsible > for creating this directory with the same permissions as the current "/tmp". > If the directory already exists "/etc/profile"&co. is responsible to check > whether the directory is owned by the current user (e.g. > $ /usr/bin/test -O dir #) and writeable (e.g. /usr/bin/test -w dir #), > if these conditions are not met TMPDIR will not be set. I think there's an error in this spec -- the way I read this, TMPDIR would never get set for any user other than root. - file permissions include owner, group, mode, and acl. - by default, /tmp is owned by root, group root, mode 01777, no acl. - if the per-user subdir is created owned by root, then it would fail the "owned by the current user" test. I don't see the rationale, however, for making the per-user subdirs be mode 01777 ; 0700 or 0711 would make more sense. - Bill From sacadmin Wed Apr 25 12:54:30 2007 Received: from zion.eng.sun.com (zion [129.146.17.75]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PJsU2Q019320; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber [129.146.228.109]) by zion.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3PJreFh003987; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <462FB179.5070600@Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:52:25 -0700 From: Bart Smaalders Organization: Sun Microsystems User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070227) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Sommerfeld CC: Darren J Moffat , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, shell-discussion@opensolaris.org Subject: Re: 2007/236 TMPDIR in default shell environment References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <1177529512.4494.15.camel@thunk> In-Reply-To: <1177529512.4494.15.camel@thunk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1334 Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > (note: I rearranged the subject line to make better use of limited > space) >> If the directory specified >> by "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" does not exist "/etc/profile"&co. will be responsible >> for creating this directory with the same permissions as the current "/tmp". >> If the directory already exists "/etc/profile"&co. is responsible to check >> whether the directory is owned by the current user (e.g. >> $ /usr/bin/test -O dir #) and writeable (e.g. /usr/bin/test -w dir #), >> if these conditions are not met TMPDIR will not be set. > > I think there's an error in this spec -- the way I read this, TMPDIR > would never get set for any user other than root. > > - file permissions include owner, group, mode, and acl. > - by default, /tmp is owned by root, group root, mode 01777, no acl. > - if the per-user subdir is created owned by root, then it would fail > the "owned by the current user" test. > > I don't see the rationale, however, for making the per-user subdirs be > mode 01777 ; 0700 or 0711 would make more sense. > > - Bill > > > > I always make mine 0700. The only real downside I've run into is that pkgadd is braindead about non-writable TMPDIR. - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts From sacadmin Wed Apr 25 13:13:46 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PKDkIF019974; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (sca-ea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.43.21]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3PKCujP011221; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3PK7ssp010361; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:12:56 GMT Received: from mms49es.sun.com ([160.41.221.233] [160.41.221.233]) by relay44i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-85416; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:12:56 Z Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74] [192.5.209.74]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-356202; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:12:56 Z Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.53] [151.189.21.53]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-672676; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:12:55 Z Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.18]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25EDD2F5843; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:12:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.44]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16ABC5BFFD; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:12:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-015-006.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.15.6]) by mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FCE236E4C; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:12:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PKCpm8008477; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:12:51 +0200 (CEST) Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org Message-Id: <462FB642.87421F2C@nrubsig.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:12:51 +0200 From: Roland Mainz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Sommerfeld CC: Darren J Moffat , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Subject: Re: 2007/236 TMPDIR in default shell environment References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <1177529512.4494.15.camel@thunk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 2714 Bill Sommerfeld wrote: [Note: shell-discussion@opensolaris.org does not exist, setting CC: to shell-discuss@opensolaris.org] > > (note: I rearranged the subject line to make better use of limited > space) > > If the directory specified > > by "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" does not exist "/etc/profile"&co. will be responsible > > for creating this directory with the same permissions as the current "/tmp". > > If the directory already exists "/etc/profile"&co. is responsible to check > > whether the directory is owned by the current user (e.g. > > $ /usr/bin/test -O dir #) and writeable (e.g. /usr/bin/test -w dir #), > > if these conditions are not met TMPDIR will not be set. > > I think there's an error in this spec -- the way I read this, TMPDIR > would never get set for any user other than root. Erm, yes... the description is misleading. When I wrote 'creating this directory with the same permissions as the current "/tmp"' I was thinking about how the old (pre-SMF) scripts created the /tmp directory... I wasn't thinking about something like a complex "copy mode+ACL procedure. Currently the code for our site looks more or less like this: -- snip -- # set TMPDIR to /tmp/${LOGNAME}/ if [ "${LOGNAME}" != "" -a "${TMPDIR}" = "" ] ; then utmpdir="/tmp/${LOGNAME}" /usr/bin/mkdir -p -m 1777 "${utmpdir}" # we have to use /usr/bin/test because /sbin/sh is a bourne shell if /usr/bin/test -d "${utmpdir}" -a -O "${utmpdir}" ; then TMPDIR="${utmpdir}" export TMPDIR fi unset utmpdir fi -- snip -- > - file permissions include owner, group, mode, and acl. > - by default, /tmp is owned by root, group root, mode 01777, no acl. > - if the per-user subdir is created owned by root, then it would fail > the "owned by the current user" test. > > I don't see the rationale, however, for making the per-user subdirs be > mode 01777 ; 0700 or 0711 would make more sense. The idea is to create something like a "per-user home dir for temporary data" which works like the normal /tmp directory (think about really big SunRay machines with many users or machines where many students login/work/logout in one day... usually /tmp looks like a giant garbage dump after one week and finding your own files becomes a challange (assuming you don't have any degree in informatics or voodoo magic)). The idea was not to adjust the mode to increase security since this may break some tools which expect that they can do a $ cd "$TMPDIR" ; ls -l # (or similar code). ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From sacadmin Wed Apr 25 13:20:26 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PKKQSd020235; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (sca-ea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.43.22]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3PKJatI014122; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay3.sun.com (relay3.sun.com [150.143.103.54] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3PJNOhC017681; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:19:36 GMT Received: from mms04es.sun.com ([150.143.104.74] [150.143.104.74]) by relay3.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2426; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:19:36 Z Received: from relay4.sun.com (relay4.sun.com [150.143.103.74]) by mms04es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-20295; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:19:36 Z Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.41] [151.189.21.41]) by relay4.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-973826; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:19:35 Z Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8B58174324; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:19:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.43]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBBBC23D342; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:19:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-015-006.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.15.6]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A11C283BE6; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:19:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3PKJVrm008500; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:19:32 +0200 (CEST) Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org Message-Id: <462FB7D3.2CB1FCD8@nrubsig.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:19:31 +0200 From: Roland Mainz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bart Smaalders CC: Bill Sommerfeld , Darren J Moffat , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Subject: Re: 2007/236 TMPDIR in default shell environment References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <1177529512.4494.15.camel@thunk> <462FB179.5070600@Sun.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1873 Bart Smaalders wrote: > Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > > (note: I rearranged the subject line to make better use of limited > > space) > >> If the directory specified > >> by "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" does not exist "/etc/profile"&co. will be responsible > >> for creating this directory with the same permissions as the current "/tmp". > >> If the directory already exists "/etc/profile"&co. is responsible to check > >> whether the directory is owned by the current user (e.g. > >> $ /usr/bin/test -O dir #) and writeable (e.g. /usr/bin/test -w dir #), > >> if these conditions are not met TMPDIR will not be set. > > > > I think there's an error in this spec -- the way I read this, TMPDIR > > would never get set for any user other than root. > > > > - file permissions include owner, group, mode, and acl. > > - by default, /tmp is owned by root, group root, mode 01777, no acl. > > - if the per-user subdir is created owned by root, then it would fail > > the "owned by the current user" test. > > > > I don't see the rationale, however, for making the per-user subdirs be > > mode 01777 ; 0700 or 0711 would make more sense. > > I always make mine 0700. > > The only real downside I've run into is that pkgadd is braindead > about non-writable TMPDIR. The point is to create a "home dir for temporary files" and not trying to tweak security (e.g. this is about usuabilty (and helping the admins a little bit)). The "/tmp/${LOGNAME}"-directories should work like the normal "/tmp", e.g. have the same mode mask (e.g. "1777") including the sticky bit and should be owned by the current user. ---- Bye, Roland P.S:: Fixing "shell-discussion@opensolaris.org" to "shell-discuss@opensolaris.org" -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From John.Plocher@sun.com Thu Apr 26 14:27:49 2007 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3QLRmmO016272 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3QLQe93007721 for <@sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:26:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH400E07JKV2D00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([10.4.134.6]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH4003FZJKRO4D0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.39.119]) by nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3QLQo9Y029136 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-09.sun.com by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JH400L01JH1FW00@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.58.87] by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JH400AGXJKQCDNJ@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:26:49 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Roland Mainz , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) Status: RO Content-Length: 402 > ...making things easier for users... Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the system is h0rked and there is no space left there. Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, and in a well functioning system the existing default should "just work", I'm not sure what the problem really is... -John From sacadmin Thu Apr 26 14:42:02 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3QLg27B016725; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.108.211] (almas.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.211]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3QLfA63009610; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46311C75.7010405@sun.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:41:09 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070423) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren J Moffat CC: PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, Shells discussion Subject: Re: Default shell environment: TMPDIR [PSARC/2007/236 Timeout: 05/02/2007] References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> In-Reply-To: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 515 Darren J Moffat wrote: > - A modification to "/etc/profile" (and the matching csh file) to set TMPDIR > to "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" if TMPDIR was not set yet. Note that this will move the default location used for files created with tempnam() etal. from the on-disk /var/tmp to the tmpfs /tmp. Does anything depend on being able to access such files across reboots (like editor autosave/recovery) ? -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Thu Apr 26 15:19:17 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3QMJGNg017922 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3QMIKbO012816; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:18:22 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH400H03LYK0G00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.central.sun.com ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH400GEVLYJG810@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.central.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l3QMHFsq022437; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l3QMHF4j022436; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:15 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> To: John Plocher Cc: Roland Mainz , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> X-Authentication-warning: binky.central.sun.com: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 964 On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 02:26:49PM -0700, John Plocher wrote: > > ...making things easier for users... > > Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR > are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the > system is h0rked and there is no space left there. > > Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, and in a well functioning > system the existing default should "just work", I'm not sure what the > problem really is... I think you could argue that private TMPDIRs are more secure -- no chance of following a malicious symlink placed in a 1777 tmpdir if your tmpdir isn't 1777. But otherwise it doesn't seem friendlier that TMPDIR=/tmp. One problem: TMPDIR should probably be mkdtemp'ed, else there's a DoS (nico% mkdir /tmp/plocher; chmod 700 /tmp/plocher; echo muahahaha), but if mkdtemped then how to make sure that multiple login sessions for the same user share the same TMPDIR? (Search for one?) Nico -- From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Thu Apr 26 16:00:50 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3QN0n3h019350 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3QMxjLG024429; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:59:54 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH400J05NVR3100@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH400G6CNVRG450@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3QM29fj020179; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:59:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms04es.sun.com ([150.143.104.74] [150.143.104.74]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-159078; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:59:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14]) by mms04es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1565453; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:59:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.46] [151.189.21.46]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1248330; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:59:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.13]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DF831EC73; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:59:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.43]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47AAE1758; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:59:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-208-162.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.208.162]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236E2312761; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:59:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3QMxgon008836; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:59:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:59:42 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Nicolas Williams Cc: John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Message-id: <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 2133 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 02:26:49PM -0700, John Plocher wrote: > > > ...making things easier for users... > > > > Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR > > are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the > > system is h0rked and there is no space left there. > > > > Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, and in a well functioning > > system the existing default should "just work", I'm not sure what the > > problem really is... > > I think you could argue that private TMPDIRs are more secure -- no > chance of following a malicious symlink placed in a 1777 tmpdir if your > tmpdir isn't 1777. > But otherwise it doesn't seem friendlier that > TMPDIR=/tmp. For users it appears to be friendlier (compared to have _all_ the files in one flat directory where you have to search for your files via $ ls -l | fgrep "myusername" # or worse). > One problem: TMPDIR should probably be mkdtemp'ed, else > there's a DoS (nico% mkdir /tmp/plocher; chmod 700 /tmp/plocher; echo > muahahaha), but if mkdtemped then how to make sure that multiple login > sessions for the same user share the same TMPDIR? (Search for one?) The example code I've posted earlier (e.g. -- snip -- # set TMPDIR to /tmp/${LOGNAME}/ if [ "${LOGNAME}" != "" -a "${TMPDIR}" = "" ] ; then utmpdir="/tmp/${LOGNAME}" /usr/bin/mkdir -p -m 1777 "${utmpdir}" # we have to use /usr/bin/test because /sbin/sh is a bourne shell if /usr/bin/test -d "${utmpdir}" -a -O "${utmpdir}" ; then TMPDIR="${utmpdir}" export TMPDIR fi unset utmpdir fi -- snip -- ) explicitly tests for such cases to make sure that no malicious user can cause trouble my "squatting" directories, e.g. TMPDIR will only be set if the directory is avaiable and owned by the user defined by ${LOGNAME} (these conditions are usually "true" unless something goes wrong (which should be the exception)) ... ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Thu Apr 26 16:05:39 2007 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3QN5cip019545 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3QN4fX1003659; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:04:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH400J03O3WC800@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.central.sun.com ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH40028FO3V6C80@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.central.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l3QN3dKg022516; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:03:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l3QN3drC022515; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:03:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:03:39 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Message-id: <20070426230338.GB21027@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> X-Authentication-warning: binky.central.sun.com: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 1518 On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 12:59:42AM +0200, Roland Mainz wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: > > For users it appears to be friendlier (compared to have _all_ the files > in one flat directory where you have to search for your files via $ ls > -l | fgrep "myusername" # or worse). Right, but I think that's marginal: I never type "cd $TMPDIR" -- like everyone else I type "cd /tmp" and old habits die hard. > > One problem: TMPDIR should probably be mkdtemp'ed, else > > there's a DoS (nico% mkdir /tmp/plocher; chmod 700 /tmp/plocher; echo > > muahahaha), but if mkdtemped then how to make sure that multiple login > > sessions for the same user share the same TMPDIR? (Search for one?) > > The example code I've posted earlier (e.g. > -- snip -- > # set TMPDIR to /tmp/${LOGNAME}/ > if [ "${LOGNAME}" != "" -a "${TMPDIR}" = "" ] ; then > utmpdir="/tmp/${LOGNAME}" > > /usr/bin/mkdir -p -m 1777 "${utmpdir}" > > # we have to use /usr/bin/test because /sbin/sh is a bourne shell > if /usr/bin/test -d "${utmpdir}" -a -O "${utmpdir}" ; then > TMPDIR="${utmpdir}" > export TMPDIR > fi > > unset utmpdir > fi > -- snip -- > ) explicitly tests for such cases to make sure that no malicious user > can cause trouble my "squatting" directories, e.g. TMPDIR will only be > set if the directory is avaiable and owned by the user defined by > ${LOGNAME} (these conditions are usually "true" unless something goes > wrong (which should be the exception)) ... OK, so fallback on TMPDIR=/tmp/. From John.Plocher@Sun.Com Thu Apr 26 17:18:31 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R0IVa3021800 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3R0HZq0029616 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH400G0DRHDK200@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([10.4.134.5]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH400EQGRHCPDB0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:17:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.39.119]) by nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3R0Haij000177 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-09.sun.com by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JH400C01RG1VI00@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.58.87] by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JH400ALSRHCCDSK@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:34 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> Sender: John.Plocher@Sun.Com To: Roland Mainz Cc: PSARC-EXT@Sun.Com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Message-id: <4631411E.2000109@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) Status: RO Content-Length: 752 Roland Mainz wrote: > For users it appears to be friendlier (compared to have _all_ the files > in one flat directory where you have to search for your files via $ ls > -l | fgrep "myusername" # or worse). But /why/ would I ever be searching for files there? I have /never/ had a reason to do a "ls -l $TMPDIR" in all my 20 years of using Unix, USG, Linux and Solaris. I could see this proposal as being interesting if this were an operation that was frequently performed, but looking under the covers as the various programs do their thing isn't something that users usually do... I can't do anything with those files, there is no guarantee that they won't be deleted in the near future, their content us unknown and unknowable, etc. -John From joshhurst@gmail.com Thu Apr 26 17:40:48 2007 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R0elBR022700 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3R0dtWu028458 for <@sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:39:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH400101SIJF900@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH400GDMSIIG6B0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3R0dr9t017124 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:39:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.sun.com ([160.41.221.233] [160.41.221.233]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-160998 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:39:53 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118] [192.5.209.118]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-259479 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:39:53 +0000 (Z) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.239] [64.233.162.239]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1290598 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:39:53 +0000 (Z) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so1023769nzf for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.93.17 with SMTP id q17mr787425wab.1177634392989; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.17.12 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:39:52 +0200 From: Josh Hurst Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <4631411E.2000109@Sun.Com> To: Shells discussion Cc: Roland Mainz , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=qWYhmhHMMR/FZZGgJwlT/llZuukiWg1ex0yZiV2Voq5IC5ggz59XFfsD7EUGo/hcwFPJ2hw111Yle5DNU7lASkQ5xEQmocTbvo2ub6t0e5RbnkAtoNyDJ5KerA2BYvZPcJV8lKgSGoOoBn00KSU2zVn2V04I6DuHvcWzHcYuGkU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=K+B4mRJlX90Ya884DuTm9IkAZ3beT5nzCLhnrm3w1TzDpmSnnRKfTR5A8a4WhSaB31JOmYjCIH/+ihgGVh41THTlIsr6X3Jey0woJgaFIoGXuLvJ31xUgeoZTBa6GjQby+8y3o9p6mqtpx5vnNfA+YDKjGqDTtbScOdB0qlOKxg= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> <4631411E.2000109@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 923 On 4/27/07, John Plocher wrote: > Roland Mainz wrote: > > For users it appears to be friendlier (compared to have _all_ the files > > in one flat directory where you have to search for your files via $ ls > > -l | fgrep "myusername" # or worse). > > > But /why/ would I ever be searching for files there? I have /never/ > had a reason to do a "ls -l $TMPDIR" in all my 20 years of using Unix, > USG, Linux and Solaris. Did you use any desktop application recently? Try: Open Konqueror, go to www.sun.com, select menu item Save As... You get a file dialog and the sidebar has predefined locations, including Desktop (file:///home/yamis/Desktop/), Documents file:///home/yamis/Documents/), Home Folder (file:///home/yamis/), Temporary Folder (file:///tmp/yamis/), Storage Media (media:/), Network Folder (remote:/) Temporary Folder (file:///tmp/yamis/) is set to the value of TMPDIR by default Josh From joshhurst@gmail.com Thu Apr 26 17:48:56 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R0mubC022875 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3R0m3iZ004314 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH400715SW39F00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH4002QHSW26GD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3R0m2YO001569 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:48:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay44i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-161455 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:48:01 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70] [192.5.209.70]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-458373 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:48:01 +0000 (Z) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.225] [64.233.162.225]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-738798 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:48:01 +0000 (Z) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so1025476nzf for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.199.1 with SMTP id w1mr777460waf.1177634881140; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.17.12 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:48:01 +0200 From: Josh Hurst Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> To: Shells discussion Cc: Roland Mainz , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=q8xqNtNMtG19OFw+mxTIOsRF1dFpuHnGhLUmotUXnV7986qdhP4g7SgQaX/Pksx6/LiCxYtlmTewWzyes+sjuyW8L068HjP1CJsCL/MRI4myXq7K5nUNNmIP1PVsiI4Mu32KV+Lih+DGY7lOfrTWQw289/SwdWq6FphCqzhClcI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=J7caMoc1sl7nw5jcQTpnTkCl3tByK5UAMmxZzBIxLyINJBNoOwvFyTM4eCApBd39hYC4lc8j3GGDVyA3bGJUG/8+9Dg+pdJjJyJgUc2F6XQi3VHDBqQfryCuyZNkxlOrdntZkwlFgr9S3VRR17mNhMQtqGtAwofANdoAXOBXL5U= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 485 On 4/26/07, John Plocher wrote: > > ...making things easier for users... > > Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR > are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users All desktops expose TMPDIR to the users. KDE and Enlightenment have bookmarks in the dialogs, Mozilla stores downloads in TMPDIR by default and Opera downloads files for plugins and external applications there. The users know about that and use TMPDIR Josh From casper@holland.sun.com Thu Apr 26 23:35:20 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R6ZI08003763 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3R6YPZt024322; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH500K0F8XDBE00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com ([129.159.237.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH500CVQ8XB7760@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101 [129.159.248.23]) by sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3R6YM7N049056; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:34:22 +0200 (MEST) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:34:22 +0200 From: Casper.Dik@Sun.COM Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Nicolas Williams Cc: John Plocher , Roland Mainz , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 1143 >On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 02:26:49PM -0700, John Plocher wrote: >> > ...making things easier for users... >> >> Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR >> are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the >> system is h0rked and there is no space left there. >> >> Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, and in a well functioning >> system the existing default should "just work", I'm not sure what the >> problem really is... > >I think you could argue that private TMPDIRs are more secure -- no >chance of following a malicious symlink placed in a 1777 tmpdir if your >tmpdir isn't 1777. But otherwise it doesn't seem friendlier that >TMPDIR=/tmp. One problem: TMPDIR should probably be mkdtemp'ed, else >there's a DoS (nico% mkdir /tmp/plocher; chmod 700 /tmp/plocher; echo >muahahaha), but if mkdtemped then how to make sure that multiple login >sessions for the same user share the same TMPDIR? (Search for one?) Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. I would think this is too risky to change. Casper From casper@holland.sun.com Fri Apr 27 00:06:47 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R76kNn005608 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3R75r0C047935 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH500K01ADUAZ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com ([129.159.237.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH500NDBADT29A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101 [129.159.248.23]) by sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3R75q2R003136; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:05:52 +0200 (MEST) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:05:51 +0200 From: Casper.Dik@Sun.COM Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <4631411E.2000109@Sun.Com> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Shells discussion Cc: Roland Mainz , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: <200704270705.l3R75q2R003136@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> <4631411E.2000109@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 593 >But /why/ would I ever be searching for files there? I have /never/ >had a reason to do a "ls -l $TMPDIR" in all my 20 years of using Unix, >USG, Linux and Solaris. I could see this proposal as being interesting >if this were an operation that was frequently performed, but looking >under the covers as the various programs do their thing isn't something >that users usually do... Neither have I; and when I went looking for files their it was invariable for files I copied their myself. I don't see users changing from: cd /tmp wget something to cd $TMPDIR wget something Casper From iszczesniak@gmail.com Fri Apr 27 02:24:53 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R9Oq7M009783 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3R9NpZS025415 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:23:59 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH500401GRWLO00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH5000RWGRVWY90@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay21.sun.com (relay21.sun.com [192.12.251.14] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3R9Ntac029411 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:23:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms23es.sun.com ([150.143.232.54] [150.143.232.54]) by relay21.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1341200 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:23:55 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms24bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (relay24.mms.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.70]) by mms23es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2672299 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:23:55 +0000 (Z) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.242] [209.85.132.242]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6657986 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:23:55 +0000 (Z) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c2so538564anc for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.1.13 with SMTP id d13mr1857237ani.1177665834846; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.168.4 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:23:54 +0200 From: "I. Szczesniak" Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> To: "Casper.Dik@sun.com" Cc: Nicolas Williams , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fMZqTa8AhSW1ufRdTh5ck0XnVvAm03xPTXUbYVr80oLqITX1CNQKrVDGFNyT3xnNxALwdRPln7Ee3qPmTD98paSaXzP9O563rgyZUE67VILHMS116pFgJQ5FKEzpBqNu0hWHK/MwnTv4xhITuT2PAeNssrKRQR5wgoM90U1ozgc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=IlPAMQQrrFnXXEx9mMI/ZxdrimLBkwKuJ64kgK3RFSTkG3Ld7rQwtbwLnsVNgD+pTbVbtgH46PtaRVpud+0qr7aWuKhMk2x/97+oEFBndMO9R4UdodlMgK6w2wsFqXgRoGDJlSL7doMvQOP0UWGRp6NBfg8haBFubIdMufPTyiI= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1376 On 4/27/07, Casper.Dik@sun.com wrote: > > >On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 02:26:49PM -0700, John Plocher wrote: > >> > ...making things easier for users... > >> > >> Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR > >> are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the > >> system is h0rked and there is no space left there. > >> > >> Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, and in a well functioning > >> system the existing default should "just work", I'm not sure what the > >> problem really is... > > > >I think you could argue that private TMPDIRs are more secure -- no > >chance of following a malicious symlink placed in a 1777 tmpdir if your > >tmpdir isn't 1777. But otherwise it doesn't seem friendlier that > >TMPDIR=/tmp. One problem: TMPDIR should probably be mkdtemp'ed, else > >there's a DoS (nico% mkdir /tmp/plocher; chmod 700 /tmp/plocher; echo > >muahahaha), but if mkdtemped then how to make sure that multiple login > >sessions for the same user share the same TMPDIR? (Search for one?) > > > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > I would think this is too risky to change. If that's true then the TMPDIR functionality needs to be removed from libc and all applications because it is insecure by default. Irek From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Fri Apr 27 05:20:38 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3RCKcg1015106 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3RCJin3035596 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH50000TOWW4700@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH500L0UOWUMN10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3RCJgDP029622 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:19:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JH500B01OS8KQ00@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:19:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JH500ANOOWTFV00@d1-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:19:41 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:19:41 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: "I. Szczesniak" Cc: "Casper.Dik@sun.com" , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <4631EA5D.6070208@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070326) Status: RO Content-Length: 597 I. Szczesniak wrote: >> Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and >> then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. >> >> I would think this is too risky to change. > > If that's true then the TMPDIR functionality needs to be removed from > libc and all applications because it is insecure by default. It isn't insecure, that isn't what Casper said, it just doesn't work nicely. If applications don't check return codes from libc functions and act accordingly then it is them that is broken, and maybe insecure, not the functions themselves. -- Darren J Moffat From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Fri Apr 27 11:34:24 2007 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3RIYNNr028813 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3RIXO3b015356; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH600D0567QW400@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH6005AV67PJR50@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:33:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l3RIXPC7008110; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l3RIXP8E008107; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:33:25 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> To: Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: Nicolas Williams , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1330 Casper.Dik@Sun.COM writes: > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. That point would seem to be a show-stopper to me. Having an RBAC role fail to work because $TMPDIR is now set (when it wasn't before) and owned by the original user would be an incompatible change and clearly a Bad Thing. I've been staying out of this particular issue until now, as I could see both sides of it. But it looks now like the weight of evidence is against the proposal: not just RBAC damage, but also unnecessary *extra* clutter in /tmp (due to the one-per-user directories, even if no temp files are used), but also the fact that admins can already set this up if they want, that the target of "easy to use" (the isolated, one-user system) won't benefit at all, and that it seems to fix a non-existent problem (who cares what's in /tmp anyway?) all argue against doing this. As it's no longer "obvious" and thus not appropriate for a fast-track, if that's not removed from the proposal, I'll derail for a full review and a written opinion. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Tim.Marsland@sun.com Fri Apr 27 14:24:27 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3RLORFn004626 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3RLNXjS022175; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:23:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH600201E393400@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH6001OOE38U700@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l3RLNJLj259139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tpm@localhost) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l3RLNHnX259136; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:23:17 -0700 From: Tim Marsland Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> To: Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: Nicolas Williams , John Plocher , Roland Mainz , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Reply-to: Tim Marsland Message-id: <20070427212316.GC254295@eng.sun.com> Organization: Software; Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Status: RO Content-Length: 340 > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > I would think this is too risky to change. It doesn't seem like *risk* per se, it's more like it's an incomplete change. If we're to make TMPDIR "work" correctly, it needs to handle the su and rbac case too. tim From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Apr 27 17:26:54 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0QqaG010005 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3S0Pp3h012620; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:25:52 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH600L01MJ3J200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH6005EPMIZSB70@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3RHKsZN014246; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:25:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms04es.sun.com ([150.143.104.74] [150.143.104.74]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-281348; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:25:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14]) by mms04es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-97543; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:25:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.41] [151.189.21.41]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2293657; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:25:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEE91749A9; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:25:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.43]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1068423D3C9; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:25:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-195-116.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.195.116]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B8F34261B; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:25:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0PhNN009088; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:25:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:25:43 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: John Plocher Cc: PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <46329487.38FFB128@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 982 John Plocher wrote: > > ...making things easier for users... > > Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR > are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the > system is h0rked and there is no space left there. > > Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, Erm, that's not true. Many of our users use TMPDIR for some quick testing or work which doesn't need to be saved permanently (perfect example are training sessions for newbies or just compile another quick testcase for a bug). And AFAIK we're not the only site where people behave like that since I've seen similar settings for TMPDIR at other universities, too. That's why I came up with the proposal: This setting is very popular and may be usefull as general default for login sessions. ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Apr 27 17:33:18 2007 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0XHlb010161 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3S0WF6x000405; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:32:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH600403MTUB900@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:32:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH6006E2MTT64A0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay24.sun.com (ip192-12-251-74.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.74]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3S0WHA8026884; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:32:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms25es.sun.com ([150.143.232.94] [150.143.232.94]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1394909; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:32:16 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms24bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (relay24.mms.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.70]) by mms25es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-244694; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:32:16 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-12.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.52] [151.189.21.52]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-7276121; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:32:16 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.17]) by mail-in-12.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5864C27D; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:32:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (mail-in-13.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.53]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F97C2DA967; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:32:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-195-116.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.195.116]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BF322D161; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:32:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0WCJ7009093; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:32:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:32:12 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: Nicolas Williams , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Message-id: <4632960C.7214AAA6@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1890 Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote: > >On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 02:26:49PM -0700, John Plocher wrote: > >> > ...making things easier for users... > >> > >> Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR > >> are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the > >> system is h0rked and there is no space left there. > >> > >> Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, and in a well functioning > >> system the existing default should "just work", I'm not sure what the > >> problem really is... > > > >I think you could argue that private TMPDIRs are more secure -- no > >chance of following a malicious symlink placed in a 1777 tmpdir if your > >tmpdir isn't 1777. But otherwise it doesn't seem friendlier that > >TMPDIR=/tmp. One problem: TMPDIR should probably be mkdtemp'ed, else > >there's a DoS (nico% mkdir /tmp/plocher; chmod 700 /tmp/plocher; echo > >muahahaha), but if mkdtemped then how to make sure that multiple login > >sessions for the same user share the same TMPDIR? (Search for one?) > > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > I would think this is too risky to change. Why ? 1. The directory created by /etc/profile always has mode 1777 set and therefore anyone can create/read/write files in that directory. It could be a theoretical problem for something like mode=700 but we do not propose that in this case... 2. If there is a problem with "su" and RBAC/roles tha it is a general problem and needs to be fixed, e.g. the hole is there and can always be exploited by plain users setting TMPDIR and it doesn't matter whether we set it in /etc/profile or not... right ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Apr 27 17:51:12 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0pC6e010593 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3S0oHIN025899; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH600C0BNNSDK00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH600B6LNNRV020@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3S0oFj6024680; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:50:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms24es.sun.com ([150.143.232.74] [150.143.232.74]) by relay23.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1395656; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:50:15 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms24bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (relay24.mms.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.70]) by mms24es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-253223; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:50:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-08.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.48] [151.189.21.48]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-7284266; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:50:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-07-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.19]) by mail-in-08.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E1F27AD10; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:50:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9752C6C80; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:50:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-195-116.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.195.116]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADACF35E5A8; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:50:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0oA56009099; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:50:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:50:10 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: James Carlson Cc: Casper.Dik@sun.com, Nicolas Williams , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions , Darren J Moffat Message-id: <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 2994 James Carlson wrote: > Casper.Dik@Sun.COM writes: > > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > That point would seem to be a show-stopper to me. Having an RBAC role > fail to work because $TMPDIR is now set (when it wasn't before) and > owned by the original user would be an incompatible change and clearly > a Bad Thing. I doubt the RBAC role will fail because the role application can write to /tmp/$LOGNAME unless the user him-/herself changes the mode to something different than 1777. > I've been staying out of this particular issue until now, as I could > see both sides of it. But it looks now like the weight of evidence is > against the proposal: not just RBAC damage, but also unnecessary > *extra* clutter in /tmp (due to the one-per-user directories, Which extra "clutter" ? Right now a plain desktop user always creates multiple files in /tmp, for example: -- snip -- $ ls -l /tmp | fgrep fosdem drwx------ 2 gfosdem gfosdem 48 2006-02-25 10:15 gconfd-gfosdem drwx------ 2 gfosdem gfosdem 120 2006-03-02 20:30 kde-gfosdem drwx------ 3 gfosdem gfosdem 112 2006-03-02 20:41 ksocket-gfosdem drwx------ 2 gfosdem gfosdem 144 2006-02-25 10:15 orbit-gfosdem srw------- 1 gfosdem gfosdem 0 2006-03-02 20:30 scim-panel-socket-:1-gfosdem drwx------ 2 gfosdem gfosdem 80 2006-02-25 13:27 vmware-gfosdem -- snip -- The matching account was only used for a FOSDEM demo and never again and the two logins ever made by it generated six files. IMO it is better to create a subdir in this case since it means that $ ls -l /tmp # only lists _one_ entry per user instead of six. IMO this is less clutter (1/6th in the example above) in /tmp and not more (unless you start counting all inodes in the whole /tmp filesystem). > even if > no temp files are used), but also the fact that admins can already set > this up if they want, Yes, but it may be nice to have something like this done by default since it appears to be a common construct which is usefull for both end-users and adminstrators. > that the target of "easy to use" (the isolated, > one-user system) won't benefit at all, and that it seems to fix a > non-existent problem (who cares what's in /tmp anyway?) It appears that the desktop environment make use of $TMPDIR and expose this "interface" to the end-user (see http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/shell-discuss/2007-April/000245.html) - which matches my obervation how our users here behave. > all argue > against doing this. > > As it's no longer "obvious" and thus not appropriate for a fast-track, > if that's not removed from the proposal, I'll derail for a full review > and a written opinion. Darren: Any comments/objections/suggestions/etc. about this ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Apr 27 17:52:51 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0qpDP010683 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3S0puiN052834; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH600C05NQKGU00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH600BFMNQKV020@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3S0ptqI000008; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:51:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms23es.sun.com ([150.143.232.54] [150.143.232.54]) by relay23.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1395712; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:51:55 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms25bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (ip192-12-251-90.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.90]) by mms23es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-277460; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:51:55 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47] [151.189.21.47]) by relay21.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-9459860; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:51:55 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-07-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.19]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FE424AE96; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:51:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E882C6C72; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:51:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-195-116.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.195.116]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5EF435E5A8; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:51:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S0pquJ009102; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:51:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:51:52 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Tim Marsland Cc: Casper.Dik@sun.com, Nicolas Williams , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Message-id: <46329AA8.B7AD2601@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <20070427212316.GC254295@eng.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 656 Tim Marsland wrote: > > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > > > I would think this is too risky to change. > > It doesn't seem like *risk* per se, it's more like it's an incomplete > change. If we're to make TMPDIR "work" correctly, it needs to handle > the su and rbac case too. AFAIK no changes are required if the "/tmp/${LOGNAME}"-directory is created with mode=1777, right ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Apr 27 18:18:38 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S1IbFv013391 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3S1HbQ2023039; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:17:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH60030ZOXDN200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH6005XTOX6RZ90@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3S1HUfw004529; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:17:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms22es.sun.com ([150.143.232.34] [150.143.232.34]) by relay23.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1396711; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:17:30 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms25bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (ip192-12-251-90.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.90]) by mms22es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-263981; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:17:30 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.41] [151.189.21.41]) by relay21.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-9474218; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:17:29 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-11-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.28]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A6F174A2B; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:17:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.42]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BD4345D60; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:17:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-195-116.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.195.116]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A017136E862; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:17:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S1HRkI009115; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:17:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:17:27 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: "I. Szczesniak" Cc: "Casper.Dik@sun.com" , Nicolas Williams , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: <4632A0A7.738F4E8E@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1719 "I. Szczesniak" wrote: > > On 4/27/07, Casper.Dik@sun.com wrote: > > > > >On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 02:26:49PM -0700, John Plocher wrote: > > >> > ...making things easier for users... > > >> > > >> Why should the user care about this? By definition, things in TMPDIR > > >> are ephemeral and don't usually get noticed by users - unless the > > >> system is h0rked and there is no space left there. > > >> > > >> Since most users don't touch TMPDIR today, and in a well functioning > > >> system the existing default should "just work", I'm not sure what the > > >> problem really is... > > > > > >I think you could argue that private TMPDIRs are more secure -- no > > >chance of following a malicious symlink placed in a 1777 tmpdir if your > > >tmpdir isn't 1777. But otherwise it doesn't seem friendlier that > > >TMPDIR=/tmp. One problem: TMPDIR should probably be mkdtemp'ed, else > > >there's a DoS (nico% mkdir /tmp/plocher; chmod 700 /tmp/plocher; echo > > >muahahaha), but if mkdtemped then how to make sure that multiple login > > >sessions for the same user share the same TMPDIR? (Search for one?) > > > > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > > > I would think this is too risky to change. > > If that's true then the TMPDIR functionality needs to be removed from > libc and all applications because it is insecure by default. AFAIK thats not neccesary since the mode=1777 AFAIK doesn't trigger the problem... ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Apr 27 18:20:23 2007 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S1KNX2013761 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3S1JUS2024931; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH600301P0IQL00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH6005IBP07S980@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay21.sun.com (relay21.sun.com [192.12.251.14] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3S1JIXm028846; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:19:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms25es.sun.com ([150.143.232.94] [150.143.232.94]) by relay21.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1395930; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:19:18 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay22.sun.com (relay22.sun.com [192.12.251.34]) by mms25es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-266554; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:19:18 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.53] [151.189.21.53]) by relay22.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6790630; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:19:18 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-14-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-14-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.31]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EFB21E541E; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:19:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.42]) by mail-in-14-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A484100C3; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:19:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-195-116.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.195.116]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A85036E862; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:19:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S1JEM5009118; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:19:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:19:14 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: John Plocher Cc: PSARC-EXT@sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Message-id: <4632A112.36E65566@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <46312EDE.6A61848E@nrubsig.org> <4631411E.2000109@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 922 John Plocher wrote: > Roland Mainz wrote: > > For users it appears to be friendlier (compared to have _all_ the files > > in one flat directory where you have to search for your files via $ ls > > -l | fgrep "myusername" # or worse). > > But /why/ would I ever be searching for files there? I have /never/ > had a reason to do a "ls -l $TMPDIR" in all my 20 years of using Unix, > USG, Linux and Solaris. I could see this proposal as being interesting > if this were an operation that was frequently performed, but looking > under the covers as the various programs do their thing isn't something > that users usually do... What about http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/shell-discuss/2007-April/000245.html and Shawn's comments ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From sacadmin Fri Apr 27 18:24:48 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S1OmCr014177; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3S1NsjD005194; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay24.sun.com (ip192-12-251-74.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.74]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3S1NsfD010929; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:23:54 GMT Received: from mms25es.sun.com ([150.143.232.94] [150.143.232.94]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1396845; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:23:54 Z Received: from mms25bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (ip192-12-251-90.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.90]) by mms25es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-268517; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:23:54 Z Received: from mail-in-08.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.48] [151.189.21.48]) by relay21.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-9477619; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:23:53 Z Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.29]) by mail-in-08.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608BE27AD8B; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:23:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33EA2279403; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:23:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-195-116.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.195.116]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E2C1DB1F2; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:23:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S1Nnmw009121; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:23:50 +0200 (CEST) Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org Message-Id: <4632A225.FDE2A1E3@nrubsig.org> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 03:23:49 +0200 From: Roland Mainz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Coopersmith CC: Darren J Moffat , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, Shells discussion Subject: Re: Default shell environment: TMPDIR [PSARC/2007/236 Timeout: 05/02/2007] References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311C75.7010405@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 846 Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Darren J Moffat wrote: > > - A modification to "/etc/profile" (and the matching csh file) to set TMPDIR > > to "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" if TMPDIR was not set yet. > > Note that this will move the default location used for files > created with tempnam() etal. from the on-disk /var/tmp to the > tmpfs /tmp. Does anything depend on being able to access > such files across reboots (like editor autosave/recovery) ? AFAIK no since APIs like |tmpfile()| and |tmpnam()| are for temporary data only and they should not be used for permanent storage (e.g. AFAIK it is a bug when applications would use these APIs for storing permanent data). ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From sacadmin Fri Apr 27 19:20:38 2007 Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (cretaceous [129.146.17.59]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3S2KciC016440; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.12.53] (vpn-129-150-12-53.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.53]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l3S2JYBo307451; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4632AF2E.7070404@sun.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:19:26 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roland Mainz CC: Alan Coopersmith , Darren J Moffat , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, Shells discussion Subject: Re: Default shell environment: TMPDIR [PSARC/2007/236 Timeout: 05/02/2007] References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311C75.7010405@sun.com> <4632A225.FDE2A1E3@nrubsig.org> In-Reply-To: <4632A225.FDE2A1E3@nrubsig.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090000060103050602000103" Status: RO Content-Length: 5892 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090000060103050602000103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roland Mainz wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Note that this will move the default location used for files >> created with tempnam() etal. from the on-disk /var/tmp to the >> tmpfs /tmp. Does anything depend on being able to access >> such files across reboots (like editor autosave/recovery) ? >> > > AFAIK no since APIs like |tmpfile()| and |tmpnam()| are for temporary > data only and they should not be used for permanent storage (e.g. AFAIK > it is a bug when applications would use these APIs for storing permanent > data). > I'm not sure it is architecture, but another attribute of moving from /var/tmp to /tmp is that the size of "TMPDIR" is now constrained by the size of the swap slice, rather than the "/var" slice (and a limited percentage of swap). Configurations that used to run, may now fail. Understand, this is a change we could allow, but considering that the justification/benefit for this appears to be aesthetics, is it worth it? (BTW: A lot of Solaris installations have rather small swap areas because the install default is rather dinky) Of course, pointing TMPDIR at /var/tmp/$USER addresses this particular concern. Also, what do the editors use for their temporary file? It would seem to be a bit of a problem if they used TMPDIR. :-) (If they do, its just a bug, but bugs happen and there are a couple too many editors in the world, its not only the ones shipping with Solaris.) Then again, it would seem that we would lose a fair amount of the benefit of per-user directories if they didn't use them. (BTW, can I shoot whoever decided that making me manually remove a vim *.swp file after a recovery was a good idea? Speaking of things to fix for the benefit of the novice user....) Staying silent on the "EOU for system administrators" aspect of per-user subdirectories, I think its a bad idea to move this from non-volatile storage to volatile. (For that matter, just due to the issues with slices/partitioning, I think its would be a bad idea to move it at all.) From today's perspective, non-volatile may be suboptimal, but it wasn't a random choice. See: 1991/024 TMPDIR default Joseph Kowalski closed approved 07/22/92 Jarrett Rosenberg Yep, this was the 24th PSARC case *ever* submitted (That's me as project lead for SunOS 5.0, Jarrett is the ARC member ). These choices were made with an eye to compatibility with SunOS 4.x and System V. - jek3 --------------090000060103050602000103 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roland Mainz wrote: 
Alan Coopersmith wrote:
  
Note that this will move the default location used for files
created with tempnam() etal. from the on-disk /var/tmp to the
tmpfs /tmp.   Does anything depend on being able to access
such files across reboots (like editor autosave/recovery) ?
    

AFAIK no since APIs like |tmpfile()| and |tmpnam()| are for temporary
data only and they should not be used for permanent storage (e.g. AFAIK
it is a bug when applications would use these APIs for storing permanent
data).

I'm not sure it is architecture, but another attribute of moving from /var/tmp to /tmp is that the size of "TMPDIR" is now constrained by the size of the swap slice, rather than the "/var" slice (and a limited percentage of swap). Configurations that used to run, may now fail.  Understand, this is a change we could allow, but considering that the justification/benefit for this appears to be aesthetics, is it worth it?  (BTW: A lot of Solaris installations have rather small swap areas because the install default is rather dinky)

Of course, pointing TMPDIR at /var/tmp/$USER addresses this particular concern.

Also, what do the editors use for their temporary file?  It would seem to be a bit of a problem if they used TMPDIR. :-)   (If they do, its just a bug, but bugs happen and there are a couple too many editors in the world, its not only the ones shipping with Solaris.) Then again, it would seem that we would lose a fair amount of the benefit of per-user directories if they didn't use them.  (BTW, can I shoot whoever decided that making me manually remove a vim *.swp file after a recovery was a good idea?  Speaking of things to fix for the benefit of the novice user....)

Staying silent on the "EOU for system administrators" aspect of per-user subdirectories, I think its a bad idea to move this from non-volatile storage to volatile.  (For that matter, just due to the issues with slices/partitioning, I think its would be a bad idea to move it at all.) From today's perspective, non-volatile may be suboptimal, but it wasn't a random choice.  See:

    1991/024  TMPDIR default    Joseph Kowalski       closed approved 07/22/92       Jarrett Rosenberg

Yep, this was the 24th PSARC case *ever* submitted (That's me as project lead for SunOS 5.0, Jarrett is the ARC member ).

These choices were made with an eye to compatibility with SunOS 4.x and System V.

- jek3



--------------090000060103050602000103-- From schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Sat Apr 28 06:24:47 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3SDOk5C011105 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3SDNnmK006362; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:23:50 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH700F01MJPT900@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH700EOCMJOL900@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3SDNmFY014407; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:23:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay44i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-230852; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:23:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118] [192.5.209.118]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1712030; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:23:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14] [193.174.154.14]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1930815; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:23:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (burner [10.147.65.166]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3SDNif28103; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:23:44 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from jes@localhost) by burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.9/Submit) id l3SDNN7B009880; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:23:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:23:23 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <4632960C.7214AAA6@nrubsig.org> Sender: schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de To: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, John.Plocher@sun.com Message-id: <46334acb.lCvvl9wiEUuzkOOL%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <4632960C.7214AAA6@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 Status: RO Content-Length: 1025 Roland Mainz wrote: > > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and > > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > > > I would think this is too risky to change. > > Why ? > 1. The directory created by /etc/profile always has mode 1777 set and > therefore anyone can create/read/write files in that directory. It could > be a theoretical problem for something like mode=700 but we do not > propose that in this case... If the directory is created with the POSIX file owner == the owner of the directory and if the mode ia 1777, it is possible for the owner to remove files creted by other users by doing: chmod u-t $TMPDIR rm $TMPDIR/some-file chmod u+t $TMPDIR Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Sat Apr 28 06:26:51 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3SDQoaX011163 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3SDPuGt009062; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH70011BMN8YE00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH700K2OMN6TFA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3SDPsX4020412; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:25:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-229205; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:25:54 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70] [192.5.209.70]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1713251; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:25:53 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14] [193.174.154.14]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1382251; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:25:53 +0000 (Z) Received: from burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (burner [10.147.65.166]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3SDPpf28252; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:25:51 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from jes@localhost) by burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.9/Submit) id l3SDPUG7009883; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:25:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:25:30 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> Sender: schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de To: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, james.d.carlson@sun.com Cc: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, John.Plocher@sun.com, darrenm@sac.sfbay.sun.com, Casper.Dik@sun.com Message-id: <46334b4a.mZbV65LqxrIZULOH%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 Status: RO Content-Length: 1266 Roland Mainz wrote: > I doubt the RBAC role will fail because the role application can write > to /tmp/$LOGNAME unless the user him-/herself changes the mode to > something different than 1777. > > > I've been staying out of this particular issue until now, as I could > > see both sides of it. But it looks now like the weight of evidence is > > against the proposal: not just RBAC damage, but also unnecessary > > *extra* clutter in /tmp (due to the one-per-user directories, > > Which extra "clutter" ? Right now a plain desktop user always creates > multiple files in /tmp, for example: > -- snip -- > $ ls -l /tmp | fgrep fosdem > drwx------ 2 gfosdem gfosdem 48 2006-02-25 10:15 gconfd-gfosdem > drwx------ 2 gfosdem gfosdem 120 2006-03-02 20:30 kde-gfosdem If the mode of the directory is different to 1777, this is a potential problem for many application, even suid applications that are run by the owner of $TMPDIR Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From casper@holland.sun.com Sat Apr 28 06:35:37 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3SDZaFd011396 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3SDYRet007826; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:34:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH700601N1NAS00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com ([129.159.237.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH7001SKN1LHY70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101 [129.159.248.23]) by sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3SDYUho043815; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:34:30 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:34:30 +0200 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46334acb.lCvvl9wiEUuzkOOL%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Cc: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, John.Plocher@sun.com Message-id: <200704281334.l3SDYUho043815@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <4632960C.7214AAA6@nrubsig.org> <46334acb.lCvvl9wiEUuzkOOL%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Status: RO Content-Length: 899 >Roland Mainz wrote: > >> > Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and >> > then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. >> > >> > I would think this is too risky to change. >> >> Why ? >> 1. The directory created by /etc/profile always has mode 1777 set and >> therefore anyone can create/read/write files in that directory. It could >> be a theoretical problem for something like mode=700 but we do not >> propose that in this case... > >If the directory is created with the POSIX file owner == the owner >of the directory and if the mode ia 1777, it is possible for the owner >to remove files creted by other users by doing: > >chmod u-t $TMPDIR >rm $TMPDIR/some-file >chmod u+t $TMPDIR Even without the chmod as the removal of a file in a sticky directory is allowed by both the owner of the file and the owner of the directory. Casper From sacadmin Sat Apr 28 06:40:31 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3SDeV7I011499; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3SDddcO000988; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3SBJrmV006725; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:39:39 GMT Received: from mms05es.sun.com ([150.143.104.94] [150.143.104.94]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-315743; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:39:38 Z Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14]) by mms05es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-591753; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:39:38 Z Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14] [193.174.154.14]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2694193; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:39:38 Z Received: from burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (burner [10.147.65.166]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3SDdZf28984; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:39:35 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from jes@localhost) by burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.9/Submit) id l3SDdEC5009904; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:39:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:39:14 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) To: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, alan.coopersmith@sun.com Cc: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, darrenm@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: Default shell environment: TMPDIR [PSARC/2007/236 Timeout: 05/02/2007] Message-Id: <46334e82.rt+6pGDRgyfg8di8%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <200704251556.l3PFubcW003010@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311C75.7010405@sun.com> <4632A225.FDE2A1E3@nrubsig.org> In-Reply-To: <4632A225.FDE2A1E3@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Status: RO Content-Length: 1373 Roland Mainz wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > Darren J Moffat wrote: > > > - A modification to "/etc/profile" (and the matching csh file) to set TMPDIR > > > to "/tmp/${LOGNAME}" if TMPDIR was not set yet. > > > > Note that this will move the default location used for files > > created with tempnam() etal. from the on-disk /var/tmp to the > > tmpfs /tmp. Does anything depend on being able to access > > such files across reboots (like editor autosave/recovery) ? > > AFAIK no since APIs like |tmpfile()| and |tmpnam()| are for temporary > data only and they should not be used for permanent storage (e.g. AFAIK > it is a bug when applications would use these APIs for storing permanent > data). Storing larger amounts of data in /var/tmp is a relict from older UNIX releases and not longer correct since 1988 when tmpfs was introduced. In former times, peole did tend to put larger anout of data in /var/tmp but this is no longer a good idea since tmpfs results in typically large amounts of fast storage to be available in /tmp. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Sat Apr 28 06:46:18 2007 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3SDkHnR011673 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3SDjIp9023588; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:45:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JH700605NJIVD00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH7001RZNJII270@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay21.sun.com (relay21.sun.com [192.12.251.14] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3SDjHA0012829; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:45:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms22es.sun.com ([150.143.232.34] [150.143.232.34]) by relay21.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1423873; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:45:17 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms24bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (relay24.mms.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.70]) by mms22es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-632514; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:45:17 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14] [193.174.154.14]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-7703988; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:45:17 +0000 (Z) Received: from burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (burner [10.147.65.166]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l3SDjEf29361; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:45:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from jes@localhost) by burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.9/Submit) id l3SDirIO009931; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:44:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:44:53 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <200704281334.l3SDYUho043815@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Sender: schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de To: Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, John.Plocher@sun.com Message-id: <46334fd5.hWBC7GL6jUjlT6p2%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <4632960C.7214AAA6@nrubsig.org> <46334acb.lCvvl9wiEUuzkOOL%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <200704281334.l3SDYUho043815@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 Status: RO Content-Length: 802 Casper.Dik@sun.com wrote: > >If the directory is created with the POSIX file owner == the owner > >of the directory and if the mode ia 1777, it is possible for the owner > >to remove files creted by other users by doing: > > > >chmod u-t $TMPDIR > >rm $TMPDIR/some-file > >chmod u+t $TMPDIR > > Even without the chmod as the removal of a file in a sticky directory > is allowed by both the owner of the file and the owner of the directory. Maybe I forgot about this because /tmp/ is owned by root ;-) Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From John.Plocher@Sun.COM Sun Apr 29 22:38:44 2007 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3U5ciEu014871 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3U5boHv020561 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHA00201QB1HX00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([10.4.134.6]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHA00LR4QALPK10@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.39.120]) by nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3U5bX8x015091 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-10.sun.com by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHA00C01PT6H900@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.4] ([66.166.204.98]) by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHA000JAQAKNJ60@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:37:27 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> Sender: John.Plocher@Sun.COM To: Roland Mainz Cc: James Carlson , Casper.Dik@Sun.COM, Darren J Moffat , OpenSolaris Shell discussions , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) Status: RO Content-Length: 2231 Roland Mainz wrote: > Which extra "clutter" ? Right now a plain desktop user always creates > multiple files in /tmp, for example: So, it sounds like the desktop code could be cleaned up to not drop turds everywhere - both in $TMPDIR and in $HOME. IMHO, whacking only TMPDIR and not fixing the other isn't really much of a fix... I have to ask why your users are doing their stuff in TMPDIR and not in $HOME? What is it about TMPDIR that they find interesting? The reasons that come to my mind are (but note that I am not a TMPDIE user :-) o it may randomly be wiped out during a reboot o it is assumed to be fast access ala ramdisk o it isn't QUOTA'd like $HOME? This leads me to ask why not set TMPDIR to $HOME/tmp? Divvying up /tmp into per-user subdirs seems aimed more at the admin than the end user, and this discussion points out that different admins value different policies... Josh Hurst wrote > All desktops expose TMPDIR to the users. KDE and Enlightenment have > bookmarks in the dialogs, Mozilla stores downloads in TMPDIR by > default and Opera downloads files for plugins and external > applications there. The users know about that and use TMPDIR See above - why should /I/ care about TMPDIR - why is it interesting? (I understand why programs find it interesting...) I can't depend on anything (plugins, downloads, etc ) remaining there across reboots; in most cases the apps that put things there remove them as well; if they don't, they have a bug :-) If I *care* about mozilla downloads, I probably should set the browser config to download things into $HOME/somewhere. Otherwise all it is good for is stuffing that PDF file while the browser invokes acrobat to display it. Once I close the viewer window, the file /should/ be automatically deleted. On a single user system, it really doesn't matter which resources are used for this stuff - $HOME, /tmp, ... - it's all mine anyways. But on that shared university system, /tmp is a resource-limited shared resource and should not be used as an extension of the per-user $HOME disk allocation. Or, in other words, maybe the real fix here is to fix Mozilla (etc) to default their download dirs to $HOME/Downloads :-) -John From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Mon Apr 30 03:21:21 2007 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UALKO8024875 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UAKIW4020310 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB00F013DXPM00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB0062L3DWZ6D0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UAKJWg025547 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:20:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB009013B9KG00@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB007FJ3DUOD10@d1-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:19 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:18 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: Casper.Dik@sun.com, John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070326) Status: RO Content-Length: 954 James Carlson wrote: > Casper.Dik@Sun.COM writes: >> Unfortunately the use of TMPDIR is inherited across "su" and >> then, when users assume roles, TMPDIR no longer works. > > That point would seem to be a show-stopper to me. Having an RBAC role > fail to work because $TMPDIR is now set (when it wasn't before) and > owned by the original user would be an incompatible change and clearly > a Bad Thing. > > I've been staying out of this particular issue until now, as I could > see both sides of it. But it looks now like the weight of evidence is > against the proposal: not just RBAC damage, but also unnecessary > *extra* clutter in /tmp (due to the one-per-user directories, even if > no temp files are used), but also the fact that admins can already set On a system with more than one user who uses GNOME you will actually reduce the number of directories in /tmp if $TMPDIR is /tmp/$LOGNAME rather than increase them. -- Darren J Moffat From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Mon Apr 30 04:30:02 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UBU2Tt027015 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UBT4mS050773; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB00C2B6KG7W00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB0090F6KFI120@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l3UBT2tH012645; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l3UBT2ux012642; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:29:02 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> To: John Plocher Cc: Roland Mainz , OpenSolaris Shell discussions , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <17973.54014.335180.912724@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 443 John Plocher writes: > This leads me to ask why not set TMPDIR to $HOME/tmp? I understand the impulse, but please don't do that. $HOME is commonly NFS-mounted, and puting $TMPDIR there will trash setuid applications. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Paul.Jakma@Sun.COM Mon Apr 30 04:57:04 2007 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UBv4tG028280 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UBu920022005 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB002017TKUX00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB00HGG7TJ0R30@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UBu6ZT005388 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:56:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB006017OT5M00@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Paul.Jakma@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:56:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from melandri.lan ([62.6.163.68]) by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB007XI7THOD10@d1-emea-09.sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:56:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:56:04 +0100 (IST) From: Paul Jakma Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> Sender: Paul.Jakma@Sun.COM To: John Plocher Cc: Roland Mainz , James Carlson , Casper.Dik@Sun.COM, Darren J Moffat , OpenSolaris Shell discussions , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1012 On Sun, 29 Apr 2007, John Plocher wrote: > This leads me to ask why not set TMPDIR to $HOME/tmp? Ouch, potentially slow. I like having GNOME use relatively fast tmpfs rather than NFS.. > On a single user system, it really doesn't matter which resources are > used for this stuff - $HOME, /tmp, ... - it's all mine anyways. But > on that shared university system, /tmp is a resource-limited shared > resource and should not be used as an extension of the per-user $HOME > disk allocation. Shared resources must be scaled appropriately. A multi-user box can have /tmp sized according to number of users, single-user likewise. Fairly normal.. > Or, in other words, maybe the real fix here is to fix Mozilla (etc) to > default their download dirs to $HOME/Downloads :-) /tmp/$LOGNAME/ would have my vote over anything under $HOME. regardsm -- Paul Jakma, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems, Scotland http://opensolaris.org/os/project/quagga tel: EMEA x73150 / +44 15066 73150 From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Mon Apr 30 05:48:22 2007 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UCmL4J000998 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UCl1Ze025855 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:47:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB00801A71F400@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB00HXMA6Z0Q60@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d1-emea-10.sun.com ([192.18.2.120]) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UClMkW010494 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:47:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-10.sun.com by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB00I01A35DF00@d1-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:47:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB0085GA6Y8G10@d1-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:47:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:47:22 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <17973.54014.335180.912724@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: James Carlson Cc: John Plocher , Roland Mainz , OpenSolaris Shell discussions , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <4635E55A.3080302@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> <17973.54014.335180.912724@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070326) Status: RO Content-Length: 532 James Carlson wrote: > John Plocher writes: >> This leads me to ask why not set TMPDIR to $HOME/tmp? > > I understand the impulse, but please don't do that. $HOME is commonly > NFS-mounted, and puting $TMPDIR there will trash setuid applications. $HOME/tmp also introduces locking issues if the same applications are run by the same user on multiple hosts at the same time. Some applications assume that $TMPDIR is local to the host (rightly or wrongly isn't the issue but the fact that they do at all). -- Darren J Moffat From alan.coopersmith@sun.com Mon Apr 30 08:41:42 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UFfgXT008095 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UFelhF042369 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB0020VI7YJW00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.154.35]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB0001QI7WJU30@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:40:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (vpn-129-150-18-29.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.18.29]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UFecGv008963; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:39:29 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: James Carlson , Casper.Dik@sun.com, John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <46360DB1.7000209@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060602) Status: RO Content-Length: 666 Darren J Moffat wrote: > On a system with more than one user who uses GNOME you will actually > reduce the number of directories in /tmp if $TMPDIR is /tmp/$LOGNAME > rather than increase them. Actually, you increase it, since if $TMPDIR is not set, GNOME puts them in /var/tmp/. (Which is the biggest cause of people setting TMPDIR I've seen in years - if those files survive a hostname change, such as booting your laptop and getting a different DHCP hostname, GNOME won't start - but that's a bug, not a reason to change the system defaults.) -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From John.Plocher@Sun.COM Mon Apr 30 09:04:56 2007 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UG4tDC009146 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UG409T016633 for <@sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB00301JAORZ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([10.4.134.6]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB00IFAJAOW4B0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.39.119]) by nwk-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UG40Vj009882 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-09.sun.com by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB00K01JA9YP00@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.58.87] by d1-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB004BNJANJML0@d1-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:03:58 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: Sender: John.Plocher@Sun.COM To: Paul Jakma Cc: OpenSolaris Shell discussions , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: <4636136E.50903@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) Status: RO Content-Length: 1035 Paul Jakma wrote: >> Or, in other words, maybe the real fix here is to fix Mozilla (etc) to >> default their download dirs to $HOME/Downloads :-) > > /tmp/$LOGNAME/ would have my vote over anything under $HOME. Seriously, why is change TMPDIR to be /tmp/$LOGNAME better than Fix the web browser to download things into $HOME/Downloads by default (instead ot dumping things directly into $TMPDIR) If I'm downloading something valuable, I'm going to need to copy it out of TMPDIR anyways, and any cost of doing the initial write()s to $HOME instead of $TMPDIR pales next to the cost of having to invoke "cp $TMPDIR/foo $HOME". And, if I'm not going to keep it, as long as the browser cleans up after itself, I shouldn't care what happens behind the scenes Unless you are seriously implying that (potential) NFS access to $HOME is the performance bottleneck in downloading and viewing a PDF file from the web? If so, it sounds like the admin has bigger problems to solve than simple modifications to TMPDIR can solve. -John From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Mon Apr 30 09:11:13 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UGBDvG009478 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UGAE0P049082; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB0092BJL2O400@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.central.sun.com ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB004G1JKWKU50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.central.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l3UG93Pr029614; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:09:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l3UG93vZ029613; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:09:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:09:03 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <4636136E.50903@Sun.Com> To: John Plocher Cc: Paul Jakma , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, OpenSolaris Shell discussions Message-id: <20070430160902.GN21027@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> <4636136E.50903@Sun.Com> X-Authentication-warning: binky.central.sun.com: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 948 On Mon, Apr 30, 2007 at 09:03:58AM -0700, John Plocher wrote: > Paul Jakma wrote: > >>Or, in other words, maybe the real fix here is to fix Mozilla (etc) to > >>default their download dirs to $HOME/Downloads :-) > > > >/tmp/$LOGNAME/ would have my vote over anything under $HOME. > > > Seriously, why is > change TMPDIR to be /tmp/$LOGNAME > better than > Fix the web browser to download things into $HOME/Downloads > by default (instead ot dumping things directly into $TMPDIR) Because viewing a PDF is not downloading it, but that's what the browser does, it downloads the PDF and launches the viewer (and note: some of us will always prefer an external PDF viewer to embedding it in the browser). Viewing a PDF is like viewing a web page -- you'd not want every page you view to be saved in ~/Downloads. Instead you want pages cached. So the fix may be to cache some contents just like web pages instead of downloading it into TMPDIR. From pickychris@googlemail.com Mon Apr 30 09:27:22 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UGRMxr010677 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UGQPr7027810 for <@sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB0040FKC1NO00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB00IW0KC1VWC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay22.sun.com (relay22.sun.com [192.12.251.34] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UGQOb8016717 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:26:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms22es.sun.com ([150.143.232.34] [150.143.232.34]) by relay22.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1560613 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:26:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms24bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (relay24.mms.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.70]) by mms22es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-35720 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:26:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.171] [66.249.92.171]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-149024 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:26:14 +0000 (Z) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 36so1042342ugg for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.169.4 with SMTP id r4mr12421120bue.1177950373007; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.188.19 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:26:12 +0200 From: Chris Pickett Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <4636136E.50903@Sun.Com> Sender: pickychris@googlemail.com To: Shells discussion Cc: Paul Jakma , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=Jauftr66odriUpIYlnx71S/z67w3wTVg/tpVK4etvWCPnHlBLucWRKxzEA8itOXkPhTeay6rCMeU0ft6frYSGAusiC7lF03UVUtF5uwA4fruNTB/NhrFeRcq3mU6TekeGgboWInyxMGghZmny8ZXGMfQ3/XT4zKKJ2lDFjzXDnw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=bdxl0MHm6JTaRj4J6Wkhcib+0dyBsJy0DOZ6ishbZzLda2YlngSOwk/2/GrkZCNEpay0taYFCkymyD3aqZqFqCZ0aZSHAA48Zm51dR3XVYW2YzvjfIamvWBZaBmH5w7SqZdATsBo71yZjYzv6HnKoBau1G2kUENJpD0lfwmRhQs= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8644e44dad1ac891 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> <4636136E.50903@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 705 On 4/30/07, John Plocher wrote: > Paul Jakma wrote: > >> Or, in other words, maybe the real fix here is to fix Mozilla (etc) to > >> default their download dirs to $HOME/Downloads :-) > > > > /tmp/$LOGNAME/ would have my vote over anything under $HOME. > > > Seriously, why is > change TMPDIR to be /tmp/$LOGNAME > better than > Fix the web browser to download things into $HOME/Downloads > by default (instead ot dumping things directly into $TMPDIR) Do you really suggest to change every application on this planet? Gnome, KDE, Xfce, etc.? Chris -- ^---^ (@)v(@) Chris Pickett | / IT consultant ===m==m=== pkchris@users.sourceforge.net From peter.tribble@gmail.com Mon Apr 30 12:22:42 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJMgB5019216 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UJLk8D014926 for <@sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB00C01SGASZ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB006OGSGADC80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay21.sun.com (relay21.sun.com [192.12.251.14] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UJLjiF021258 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:21:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms25es.sun.com ([150.143.232.94] [150.143.232.94]) by relay21.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1572443 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:21:45 +0000 (Z) Received: from mms23bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (relay23.mms.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.50]) by mms25es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-133248 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:21:45 +0000 (Z) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.180] [64.233.166.180]) by relay23.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-8543132 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:21:45 +0000 (Z) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so1369596pyb for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.214.19 with SMTP id r19mr12283113qbq.1177960904799; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.250.19 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:21:44 +0100 From: Peter Tribble Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: James Carlson , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Casper.Dik@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Ger3TjlrW+oViGfguyBXhXEdnP8CNR2Hrfu27vzAXQqHWwWdxxeuZVYeDdz+3vmBrD76VgI1YiWEncOgN4o+m5wnBAEl9DDQCM9IOMy6w8kKTUEf/odBjSZ+WMOBixOqqzjWbV4JnasVc4d28/scYX4eD0aMAxNM2+AwH95XG/c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ofFPj3ct0dZwMVBLuZx/rYLyDRw2dz7UXstrZwK4DYbMUM2qcKnTwSn/A/OyEPC8RsrThz6pPCIaiTu5GlGzI7bZRxxqSsbjJvBfV+1E++iKmZ+i/pYAFwHzWwNj4AQgUOgbNzHImT4ZcRr0YKhWcDNV+4yiAQiG0GZHtg+1R+E= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 666 On 4/30/07, Darren J Moffat wrote: > On a system with more than one user who uses GNOME you will actually > reduce the number of directories in /tmp if $TMPDIR is /tmp/$LOGNAME > rather than increase them. Not so; I use GNOME and it doesn't leave anything in /tmp. There's the normal .X11-{pipe,unix} stuff, but other than that /tmp is pretty much empty. I currently use systems with a modest number (100 or so) of users who don't use desktops; at a previous employer this proposal would have led to several thousand additional (empty) directories in /tmp. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From bart.smaalders@sun.com Mon Apr 30 13:54:20 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UKsKiC022842 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UKrOPR015307 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHB0070TWP02900@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from engmail3mpk.sfbay.Sun.COM ([129.146.11.26]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHB00KEFWOWG3A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zion.eng.sun.com (zion.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.17.75]) by engmail3mpk.sfbay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UKrIVk018907; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber [129.146.228.109]) by zion.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3UKrHjH029084; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:51:59 -0700 From: Bart Smaalders Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: To: Peter Tribble Cc: Darren J Moffat , John Plocher , Casper.Dik@sun.com, James Carlson , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <463656EF.3090504@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070227) Status: RO Content-Length: 835 Peter Tribble wrote: > On 4/30/07, Darren J Moffat wrote: >> On a system with more than one user who uses GNOME you will actually >> reduce the number of directories in /tmp if $TMPDIR is /tmp/$LOGNAME >> rather than increase them. > > Not so; I use GNOME and it doesn't leave anything in /tmp. There's > the normal .X11-{pipe,unix} stuff, but other than that /tmp is pretty much > empty. > > I currently use systems with a modest number (100 or so) of users who > don't use desktops; at a previous employer this proposal would have led > to several thousand additional (empty) directories in /tmp. > These users actually log into the machines in question, but never create _any_ temporary files? - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts From binarycrusader@gmail.com Mon Apr 30 19:23:28 2007 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l412NRkh006075 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l410ANG7007682 for <@sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHC0041L5T94X00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHC00LLP5T89S90@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l410AKYm015213 for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 00:10:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-317189 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 00:10:20 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72] [192.5.209.72]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1675037 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 00:10:19 +0000 (Z) Received: from hu-out-0506.google.com ([72.14.214.224] [72.14.214.224]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2889218 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 00:10:19 +0000 (Z) Received: by hu-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 35so6946833hue for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.170.6 with SMTP id s6mr2248505hue.1177978219082; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.21.13 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:18 -0500 From: Shawn Walker Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <463656EF.3090504@Sun.COM> To: Shells discussion Cc: Peter Tribble , John Plocher , Casper.Dik@sun.com, PSARC-EXT@sun.com, James Carlson , Darren J Moffat Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oWAuFMdplHmj405ESJsupLXl59AUfYfgfnAm7U1oXhLXL98GnMRDZn2jPAnhUDf04HZCAZWWIkrE1v6hdCI00fnEpI7CplJjTQEl+ht12NZqtYEuvbyyd+iIIMm9j8xdVvlE9E9HWfzMMwNEhcNct0pHJ4B1pQkhdb5KScVqHnY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mg7lNpX2tJHJ5lD/tNIhDbzBDgOQT6jRDIWvBNi3FCd8KKJ5KmA0Fb8XfuB+MlHry0XRwIrfQdh5UaJx8RhxlTl5u9ltkNiPGpJtIKtOy2SFmCgSPfJZlnW3iTiR/JdgngQQH686ikoNH2WHR1HwerPmZg8vnOafEKQVeU3T7hE= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> <463656EF.3090504@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 1169 On 30/04/07, Bart Smaalders wrote: > Peter Tribble wrote: > > On 4/30/07, Darren J Moffat wrote: > >> On a system with more than one user who uses GNOME you will actually > >> reduce the number of directories in /tmp if $TMPDIR is /tmp/$LOGNAME > >> rather than increase them. > > > > Not so; I use GNOME and it doesn't leave anything in /tmp. There's > > the normal .X11-{pipe,unix} stuff, but other than that /tmp is pretty much > > empty. > > > > I currently use systems with a modest number (100 or so) of users who > > don't use desktops; at a previous employer this proposal would have led > > to several thousand additional (empty) directories in /tmp. > > > > These users actually log into the machines in question, but never > create _any_ temporary files? Personally, I have a hard time believing this. Almost any time I've logged in or out of GNOME I find many little files littering /tmp or /var/tmp from orbit, ice, sockets, etc. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader@gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Tue May 1 04:04:15 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41B4FtJ026415 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41B3FZj013014; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHD0090901FV800@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:03:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHD00D6U01FU480@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 01 May 2007 05:03:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l41B1CYk029677; Tue, 01 May 2007 11:03:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-334544; Tue, 01 May 2007 11:03:15 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118] [192.5.209.118]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-223715; Tue, 01 May 2007 11:03:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14] [193.174.154.14]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3000810; Tue, 01 May 2007 11:03:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (burner [10.147.65.166]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id l41B3Bf00738; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:03:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: (from jes@localhost) by burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.9/Submit) id l41B2mSU011279; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:02:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 13:02:48 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: [shell-discuss] Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: Sender: schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de To: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org Cc: PSARC-EXT@sun.com, peter.tribble@gmail.com, John.Plocher@sun.com, James.D.Carlson@sun.com, Darren.Moffat@sun.com, Casper.Dik@sun.com Message-id: <46371e58.UM+055M0cC3GqQGV%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> <463656EF.3090504@Sun.COM> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 Status: RO Content-Length: 716 "Shawn Walker" wrote: > Personally, I have a hard time believing this. Almost any time I've > logged in or out of GNOME I find many little files littering /tmp or > /var/tmp from orbit, ice, sockets, etc. Files in /var/tmp that are not from editors must havebeen created by Authors on Linux who do not know what happened in 1988 and that /tmp now typically has more space and is faster. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From peter.tribble@gmail.com Tue May 1 15:24:39 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41MOdOF027696 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41MNig0046395 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHD00807VJH5A00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Tue, 01 May 2007 16:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHD001KAVJHWK70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Tue, 01 May 2007 16:23:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.sun.com (relay2.sun.com [150.143.103.24] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l41MAZmO017235 for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:23:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms04es.sun.com ([150.143.104.74] [150.143.104.74]) by relay2.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-630165 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:23:23 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14]) by mms04es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-134252 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:23:23 +0000 (Z) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.224] [64.233.162.224]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-5351815 for PSARC-EXT@sun.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:23:23 +0000 (Z) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so2515456nzf for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 15:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.113.17 with SMTP id q17mr2665156qbm.1178058202923; Tue, 01 May 2007 15:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.61.9 with HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 15:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 23:23:22 +0100 From: Peter Tribble Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <463656EF.3090504@Sun.COM> To: Bart Smaalders Cc: Darren J Moffat , John Plocher , Casper.Dik@sun.com, James Carlson , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WaB0O7HEAbesIA+DBnrdirGTVKdfSGLc9t3m2jBu8ZEk4xh54YL5OarI745M3u3Vq0z9r6lbfCrpQ/04niWBaabPssghicE5J9yifpCTRj2kT83G2h7P19yTE5DCwpwRHRajUGzYTLLGro/t4eCi2jrUWRsN/HzGqYuTZnu95OI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pYSmqoRDpiGtlQjwG5D54UnrmkhaZIMdLSSBnfPMVymtsMG26gnKpoGBQeNOXS9EjEUcjobLivR+qKthMTZQA2tfuzm1xnh+oKKtwuTjxc6yCORwk0hnQ3GZv/iNoLDHUGK8y/6ks82Whljev1N7i89WUgkQOU5pElLfWeUHYKQ= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> <463656EF.3090504@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 660 On 4/30/07, Bart Smaalders wrote: > Peter Tribble wrote: > > I currently use systems with a modest number (100 or so) of users who > > don't use desktops; at a previous employer this proposal would have led > > to several thousand additional (empty) directories in /tmp. > > > > These users actually log into the machines in question, but never > create _any_ temporary files? Pretty well. Just logging in via ssh and running command line scripts and applications. Even on my fairly busy servers /tmp tends to contain 20, entries - 50 would be a lot. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Wed May 2 09:00:40 2007 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l42G0ept012821 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 09:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l42FxeU4028279; Wed, 2 May 2007 08:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHF00D2J8FHLJ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 02 May 2007 08:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHF007FX8FGRCA0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 02 May 2007 08:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay3.sun.com (relay3.sun.com [150.143.103.54] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l42EwnFN019838; Wed, 02 May 2007 15:59:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms03es.sun.com ([150.143.104.54] [150.143.104.54]) by relay3.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-716914; Wed, 02 May 2007 15:59:24 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay3.sun.com (relay3.sun.com [150.143.103.54]) by mms03es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1971315; Wed, 02 May 2007 15:59:24 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47] [151.189.21.47]) by relay3.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-5708354; Wed, 02 May 2007 15:59:24 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.29]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B269124BC18; Wed, 02 May 2007 17:59:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB82279482; Wed, 02 May 2007 17:59:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-235-204.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.235.204]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD8E1CB722; Wed, 02 May 2007 17:59:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l42FxJQm000717; Wed, 02 May 2007 17:59:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 17:59:19 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Peter Tribble Cc: Darren J Moffat , James Carlson , John Plocher , PSARC-EXT@sun.com, Casper.Dik@sun.com Message-id: <4638B557.DB46497E@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4635C2E2.8070407@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 884 Peter Tribble wrote: > On 4/30/07, Darren J Moffat wrote: > > On a system with more than one user who uses GNOME you will actually > > reduce the number of directories in /tmp if $TMPDIR is /tmp/$LOGNAME > > rather than increase them. > > Not so; I use GNOME and it doesn't leave anything in /tmp. There's > the normal .X11-{pipe,unix} stuff, but other than that /tmp is pretty much > empty. > > I currently use systems with a modest number (100 or so) of users who > don't use desktops; at a previous employer this proposal would have led > to several thousand additional (empty) directories in /tmp. I assume they only use shell commands and nothing with a GUI, right ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Wed May 2 09:54:20 2007 Received: from sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l42GsIJo017392 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 09:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l42Gr2AM005936; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:53:18 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHF00E0VAWSCN00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 02 May 2007 09:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHF0040HAWRRUD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 02 May 2007 09:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay3.sun.com (relay3.sun.com [150.143.103.54] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l42GUZiB028333; Wed, 02 May 2007 16:53:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms04es.sun.com ([150.143.104.74] [150.143.104.74]) by relay3.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-723489; Wed, 02 May 2007 16:52:50 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay1.sun.com (relay1.sun.com [150.143.103.14]) by mms04es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-964852; Wed, 02 May 2007 16:52:50 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-04.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.44] [151.189.21.44]) by relay1.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6000124; Wed, 02 May 2007 16:52:49 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.14]) by mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B4C17FCCD; Wed, 02 May 2007 18:52:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-11.arcor-online.net (mail-in-11.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.51]) by mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547B31150CB; Wed, 02 May 2007 18:52:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-235-204.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.235.204]) by mail-in-11.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32005341B6B; Wed, 02 May 2007 18:52:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l42GqhHQ000741; Wed, 02 May 2007 18:52:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 18:52:43 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: John Plocher Cc: Paul Jakma , OpenSolaris Shell discussions , PSARC-EXT@sun.com Message-id: <4638C1DB.9945747D@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200704262113.l3QLDU27015795@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <46311919.9080107@Sun.Com> <20070426221714.GA21027@Sun.COM> <200704270634.l3R6YM7N049056@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <17970.16885.382847.920432@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46329A42.EB66A59D@nrubsig.org> <46358097.7030106@Sun.Com> <4636136E.50903@Sun.Com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1848 John Plocher wrote: > > Paul Jakma wrote: > >> Or, in other words, maybe the real fix here is to fix Mozilla (etc) to > >> default their download dirs to $HOME/Downloads :-) > > > > /tmp/$LOGNAME/ would have my vote over anything under $HOME. > > Seriously, why is > change TMPDIR to be /tmp/$LOGNAME > better than > Fix the web browser to download things into $HOME/Downloads > by default (instead ot dumping things directly into $TMPDIR) I am not sure whether it is usefull to try that since this behavoiur is too common in applications. We could try to fight but the windmills are likely going to win (unless we fight with Leopard-2 tanks etc. ... :-) ) ... > If I'm downloading something valuable, I'm going to need to copy it out of > TMPDIR anyways, and any cost of doing the initial write()s to $HOME instead > of $TMPDIR pales next to the cost of having to invoke "cp $TMPDIR/foo $HOME". > And, if I'm not going to keep it, as long as the browser cleans up after > itself, I shouldn't care what happens behind the scenes But that's what many users do in this case: They view something in xpdf or acroread and if they "like" it they copy the files from it's temporary location to a permenent in ${HOME}. That's pretty much unavoidable... > Unless you are seriously implying that (potential) NFS access to $HOME > is the performance bottleneck in downloading and viewing a PDF file from > the web? If so, it sounds like the admin has bigger problems to solve > than simple modifications to TMPDIR can solve. ... the part where I would be worried are name collisions when working in the same account from multiple machines... ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Fri May 4 03:19:49 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l44AJnmp026825 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 03:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l44AInwe054795 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Fri, 4 May 2007 04:18:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JHI0050OHZD5M00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 04 May 2007 04:18:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHI001MQHYV9310@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 04 May 2007 04:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d1-emea-10.sun.com ([192.18.2.120]) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l44AIVv6023265 for ; Fri, 04 May 2007 10:18:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-10.sun.com by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHI00C01HV8CF00@d1-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 04 May 2007 11:18:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by d1-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHI009Q8HYU8700@d1-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 04 May 2007 11:18:31 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:18:30 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: PSARC/2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR In-reply-to: <20070504045537.GB5001@Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: PSARC-EXT@sun.com Cc: shell-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <463B0876.6050303@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <46312E4C.1020702@sun.com> <4632B411.9FC4D9C0@nrubsig.org> <46334f71.Fspbbj2lxSDxYvlQ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <4634E881.7020303@sun.com> <4639e213.HxGcPKKZCCfnNpOr%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <463a071f.riHD0ricfsQYHFDG%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <463A1657.5070504@Sun.Com> <463a44da.yugUJHFxs2nAKwvB%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <463AB26D.5040209@sun.com> <20070504045537.GB5001@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070326) Status: RO Content-Length: 532 The timer for this case was extended by one week, the timer now expires on Wednesday 9th May 2007. A point or two of order: Please keep comments specific to the proposal under review. Please keep the feedback technical: the following are good: change x causes a regression change x is incomplete change x has a security problem change x won't work with the foo part of the system the following aren't relevant for architecture review: I prefer y over x thing x that is unrelated should be done first -- Darren J Moffat From Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM Mon May 14 05:32:32 2007 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4ECWWjQ004459 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 05:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l4ECVOfd061135 for <@newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:31:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JI100C136SDNX00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 14 May 2007 06:31:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com ([129.156.42.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JI100AWM6SCAE10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 14 May 2007 06:31:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d1-emea-09.sun.com ([192.18.2.119]) by gmp-ea-fw-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l4ECVOF3016677 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:31:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-emea-09.sun.com by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JI100J016KHH000@d1-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 14 May 2007 13:31:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by d1-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JI100CMR6SB3B20@d1-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM); Mon, 14 May 2007 13:31:23 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:31:23 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: PSARC/2007/236 [derailed] Default shell environment: TMPDIR Sender: Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM To: PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: <4648569B.5060108@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070326) Status: RO Content-Length: 815 This case was derailed at PSARC on Wednesday 9th May, since it was clear from the discussion that is was not reaching consensus and is deemed controversial to at least some members. The recommendation is to bring a full case to review covering all four of: 2007/233 Default shell environment: machine ksh93/bash environment 2007/234 Default shell environment: Skeleton user sh/ksh/ksh93/bash 2007/235 Default shell environment: manual page subsystem 2007/236 Default shell environment: TMPDIR There should be no further email discussion on this alias about these cases since they are no longer fast-tracks. The submitter and sponsor will arrange the next steps. The full case review should it happen will be an open review, details of how to attend will be sent if/when it is schedule. -- Darren J Moffat