From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 09:12:21 2007 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UGCLAs009635; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from markcarl@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id l3UGCLBC009631; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:12:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Carlson Message-Id: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: san-extstaff@sun.com Subject: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] Status: RO Content-Length: 2074 Subject: PSARC FastTrack [05/07/2007]: iscsitadm Interface Classification Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI This information is Copyright 2007 Sun Microsystems, Inc. 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: iscsitadm Interface Classification 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: John Forte 1.3 Date of This Document: 30 April, 2007 4. Technical Description 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: iscsitadm Interface Classification 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: John Forte 1.3. Date of This Document: 04/30/2007 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): 1.4.1. The PAC or CPT you expect to review your project: Solaris PAC 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: PSARC 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: Scott Tracy 1.4.4. The name of your business unit: N2SG 1.5. Email Aliases: 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: scott.tracy@sun.com 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: John.Forte@Sun.COM 1.5.4. Interest List: san-extstaff@sun.com . Project Summary According to the materials in the case directory for PSARC/2005/441, iscsitadm was not listed in the exported interface table and therefore was not ARC'ed with any interface stability classification. This fasttrack amends PSARC/2005/441 by introducing the following additional exported interface: _____________________________________________________ |Interface | Classification | | |_____________________|_________________|___________| |/usr/sbin/iscsitadm | Volatile | | |_____________________|_________________|___________| Appropriate wording will accompany the release documentation that will reflect this command's stability and its likelihood of changing. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: OS/Net 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 09:23:18 2007 Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UGNHRT010571; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l3UGMMCw013701; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l3UGMMAD013698; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:22:22 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:22:21 -0400 From: James Carlson To: Mark Carlson Cc: PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-Reply-To: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 907 Mark Carlson writes: > This fasttrack amends PSARC/2005/441 by introducing the following additional > exported interface: > > _____________________________________________________ > |Interface | Classification | | > |_____________________|_________________|___________| > |/usr/sbin/iscsitadm | Volatile | | > |_____________________|_________________|___________| The man page in Solaris today says "Evolving" for this command, which actually means "Committed" in the current taxonomy. What we say in the man pages is what we guarantee for customers. Are you proposing an EOF for iscsitadm, which is what a reduction in stability implies? -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 09:34:14 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UGYEC9011038; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (vpn-129-150-18-29.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.18.29]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UGXGId007218; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46361A07.90501@sun.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:32:07 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060602) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Carlson CC: PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> In-Reply-To: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 519 Mark Carlson wrote: > Subject: PSARC FastTrack [05/07/2007]: iscsitadm Interface Classification > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI > This information is XXX XXXXXXXXXXX: XXXX-XX-XXXX What in this case was XXXXXXXXXXXX? If nothing, please change the "Exposure" in the IAM to open, remove the XXX XXXXXXXXXXX line and send to psarc-ext so the OpenSolaris community may see it as well. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Mark.Carlson@Sun.COM Mon Apr 30 10:05:59 2007 Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sfbaymail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.42]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UH5xNt012839 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UH53qo029105 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UH53ON002859 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:05:03 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB00I01LI10L00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Mark.Carlson@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.20.24.205] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB00FB9M4FAIE0@mail-amer.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:04:59 -0600 From: "Mark A. Carlson" Subject: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] Sender: Mark.Carlson@Sun.COM To: psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <463621BB.9020705@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Macintosh/20060909) Status: RO Content-Length: 1844 Subject: PSARC FastTrack [05/07/2007]: iscsitadm Interface Classification Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase %I% %G% SMI 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: iscsitadm Interface Classification 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: John Forte 1.3. Date of This Document: 04/30/2007 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): 1.4.1. The PAC or CPT you expect to review your project: Solaris PAC 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: PSARC 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: Scott Tracy 1.4.4. The name of your business unit: N2SG 1.5. Email Aliases: 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: scott.tracy@sun.com 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: John.Forte@Sun.COM 1.5.4. Interest List: san-extstaff@sun.com 4. Technical Description According to the materials in the case directory for PSARC/2005/441, iscsitadm was not listed in the exported interface table and therefore was not ARC'ed with any interface stability classification. This fasttrack amends PSARC/2005/441 by introducing the following additional exported interface: _____________________________________________________ |Interface | Classification | | |_____________________|_________________|___________| |/usr/sbin/iscsitadm | Volatile | | |_____________________|_________________|___________| Appropriate wording will accompany the release documentation that will reflect this command's stability and its likelihood of changing. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: OS/Net 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack From John.Forte@Sun.COM Mon Apr 30 10:10:08 2007 Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sfbaymail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.42]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UHA8jw012931; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UH9C5S000960; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UH9Cia004937; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:09:12 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB00K01M9CYH00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB00BJOMBAC290@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:07:48 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: James Carlson Cc: Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <46362264.8050908@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1582 The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris Express or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, been delivered to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would change the manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have expected that guarantee to be binding in a development release. As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving is unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. - John James Carlson wrote: > Mark Carlson writes: > >> This fasttrack amends PSARC/2005/441 by introducing the following additional >> exported interface: >> >> _____________________________________________________ >> |Interface | Classification | | >> |_____________________|_________________|___________| >> |/usr/sbin/iscsitadm | Volatile | | >> |_____________________|_________________|___________| >> > > The man page in Solaris today says "Evolving" for this command, which > actually means "Committed" in the current taxonomy. What we say in > the man pages is what we guarantee for customers. > > Are you proposing an EOF for iscsitadm, which is what a reduction in > stability implies? > > From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 10:10:08 2007 Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sfbaymail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.42]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UHA8jw012931; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UH9C5S000960; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UH9Cia004937; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:09:12 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB00K01M9CYH00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB00BJOMBAC290@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:07:48 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: James Carlson Cc: Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <46362264.8050908@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1582 The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris Express or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, been delivered to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would change the manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have expected that guarantee to be binding in a development release. As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving is unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. - John James Carlson wrote: > Mark Carlson writes: > >> This fasttrack amends PSARC/2005/441 by introducing the following additional >> exported interface: >> >> _____________________________________________________ >> |Interface | Classification | | >> |_____________________|_________________|___________| >> |/usr/sbin/iscsitadm | Volatile | | >> |_____________________|_________________|___________| >> > > The man page in Solaris today says "Evolving" for this command, which > actually means "Committed" in the current taxonomy. What we say in > the man pages is what we guarantee for customers. > > Are you proposing an EOF for iscsitadm, which is what a reduction in > stability implies? > > From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Mon Apr 30 11:15:29 2007 Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UIFTHt016189; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l3UIEXNY014271; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l3UIEXv7014268; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:14:33 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:14:33 -0400 From: James Carlson To: John Forte Cc: Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-Reply-To: <46362264.8050908@sun.com> References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 1920 John Forte writes: > The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris Express > or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, been delivered > to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would change the > manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have expected that > guarantee to be binding in a development release. Ah, ok. That's a helpful clarification. I had thought it'd already shipped. > As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, > C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the > classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving is > unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. > > And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a > customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, > 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says > otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. There's a good reason it says otherwise for Solaris cases in PSARC. "Uncommitted" means that incompatible changes are allowed at Minor release boundaries. That makes the command mostly unusable for scripting purposes, as the script would then potentially break at each Minor release. The real question is whether any other project or script could possibly use this command. If the answer is "no," and there's no chance that a customer would (say) include an invocation in a jumpstart script, or that something like Explorer would ever attempt to invoke it, then "Uncommitted" or "Volatile" might be fair. Otherwise, I find it surprising that "Volatile" is a useful classification for anything other than an experimental or toy interface. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 11:15:29 2007 Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UIFTHt016189; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l3UIEXNY014271; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l3UIEXv7014268; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:14:33 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:14:33 -0400 From: James Carlson To: John Forte Cc: Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-Reply-To: <46362264.8050908@sun.com> References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 1920 John Forte writes: > The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris Express > or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, been delivered > to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would change the > manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have expected that > guarantee to be binding in a development release. Ah, ok. That's a helpful clarification. I had thought it'd already shipped. > As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, > C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the > classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving is > unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. > > And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a > customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, > 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says > otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. There's a good reason it says otherwise for Solaris cases in PSARC. "Uncommitted" means that incompatible changes are allowed at Minor release boundaries. That makes the command mostly unusable for scripting purposes, as the script would then potentially break at each Minor release. The real question is whether any other project or script could possibly use this command. If the answer is "no," and there's no chance that a customer would (say) include an invocation in a jumpstart script, or that something like Explorer would ever attempt to invoke it, then "Uncommitted" or "Volatile" might be fair. Otherwise, I find it surprising that "Volatile" is a useful classification for anything other than an experimental or toy interface. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From sommerfeld@sun.com Mon Apr 30 11:55:28 2007 Received: from eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM [129.148.9.49]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UItS8e018315 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunk.east.sun.com (thunk.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.66]) by eastmail1bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UIsWMR013153; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thunk.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UIsVQW007406; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] From: Bill Sommerfeld To: "Mark A. Carlson" Cc: psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com In-Reply-To: <463621BB.9020705@sun.com> References: <463621BB.9020705@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:54:30 -0400 Message-Id: <1177959271.6692.10.camel@thunk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.8.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 841 On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 11:04 -0600, Mark A. Carlson wrote: > This fasttrack amends PSARC/2005/441 by introducing the following additional > exported interface: > > _____________________________________________________ > |Interface | Classification | | > |_____________________|_________________|___________| > |/usr/sbin/iscsitadm | Volatile | | > |_____________________|_________________|___________| As others indicated, this is documented as Evolving. IMHO we need a stable administrative interface for iscsi to allow customers to build their own administrative frameworks around the subsystem. As a reminder, a stability level of Committed does not preclude the later addition of compatible extensions; you can add new subcommands, new options, etc., to your heart's content. - Bill From peter.tribble@gmail.com Mon Apr 30 12:11:10 2007 Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sfbaymail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.42]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJBAHh018773 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (sca-ea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.43.22]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UJAEBQ005306 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UJA3Be002669 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:14 GMT Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-306374 for psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:14 Z Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118] [192.5.209.118]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1566097 for psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:14 Z Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.227] [64.233.162.227]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2811069 for psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:14 Z Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i11so1994796nzi for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=GXIYUQeaNpE4omexbHVURZkNOW/XPYRk3OYqg+CUNCSaqm1xQ2VnzKJRBK/s4/Q5xxwVNh3kxLitoZwFncTQB8SJb7BMrCU++Cm11+8F+9sQKbt9ZYdLiSdh2S4CiroTB3t93lbR/vxS1qhPs1Va1vty/pCos8HCbgDrPZksicg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YrZV+moveZKsztdCoiLuaeL9AlJLWnUFMN/h1hqxAi4NTRT2Tc/072oFSjhTL1NdHTQyKvvN45RsTlkJhbGlmFW0ew+2r89RboWbjykyr/e5poPB7zUMDTNHbigGAzn7U55uRXyun2EydlRpDOOgoMDjYQwQcOlcF+fArge4VsI= Received: by 10.65.23.7 with SMTP id a7mr12480719qbj.1177960213649; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.250.19 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:10:13 +0100 From: "Peter Tribble" To: "James Carlson" Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] Cc: "John Forte" , "Mark Carlson" , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com In-Reply-To: <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 786 On 4/30/07, James Carlson wrote: > > The real question is whether any other project or script could > possibly use this command. If the answer is "no," and there's no > chance that a customer would (say) include an invocation in a > jumpstart script, or that something like Explorer would ever attempt > to invoke it, then "Uncommitted" or "Volatile" might be fair. > > Otherwise, I find it surprising that "Volatile" is a useful > classification for anything other than an experimental or toy > interface. Indeed. I do have an iscsitadm invocation in my jumpstart scripts, and have an in-house utility something like explorer to capture system state that invokes iscsitadm. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 12:11:18 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJBIQL018793 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UJAM2N026891 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay22.sun.com (relay22.sun.com [192.12.251.34] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UJAMn4008675 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:22 GMT Received: from mms22es.sun.com ([150.143.232.34] [150.143.232.34]) by relay22.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1573789 for PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:14 Z Received: from mms24bas.mms.us.syntegra.com (relay24.mms.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.70]) by mms22es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-128827 for PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:14 Z Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.180] [64.233.166.180]) by relay24.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-246453 for PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:10:14 Z Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b50so1451556pyh for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=GXIYUQeaNpE4omexbHVURZkNOW/XPYRk3OYqg+CUNCSaqm1xQ2VnzKJRBK/s4/Q5xxwVNh3kxLitoZwFncTQB8SJb7BMrCU++Cm11+8F+9sQKbt9ZYdLiSdh2S4CiroTB3t93lbR/vxS1qhPs1Va1vty/pCos8HCbgDrPZksicg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YrZV+moveZKsztdCoiLuaeL9AlJLWnUFMN/h1hqxAi4NTRT2Tc/072oFSjhTL1NdHTQyKvvN45RsTlkJhbGlmFW0ew+2r89RboWbjykyr/e5poPB7zUMDTNHbigGAzn7U55uRXyun2EydlRpDOOgoMDjYQwQcOlcF+fArge4VsI= Received: by 10.65.23.7 with SMTP id a7mr12480719qbj.1177960213649; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.250.19 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:10:13 +0100 From: "Peter Tribble" To: "James Carlson" Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] Cc: "John Forte" , "Mark Carlson" , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com In-Reply-To: <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 786 On 4/30/07, James Carlson wrote: > > The real question is whether any other project or script could > possibly use this command. If the answer is "no," and there's no > chance that a customer would (say) include an invocation in a > jumpstart script, or that something like Explorer would ever attempt > to invoke it, then "Uncommitted" or "Volatile" might be fair. > > Otherwise, I find it surprising that "Volatile" is a useful > classification for anything other than an experimental or toy > interface. Indeed. I do have an iscsitadm invocation in my jumpstart scripts, and have an in-house utility something like explorer to capture system state that invokes iscsitadm. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From John.Forte@Sun.COM Mon Apr 30 12:20:37 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJKben019126; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UJJfjH001313; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UJJfWn025319; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:19:41 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB00901S41Y500@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB00BHQSCQC2B0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:18:16 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: Peter Tribble Cc: James Carlson , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <463640F8.7010100@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1361 Certainly you and others might have scripts based on the manpage that is available in Nevada. As I indicated though, this has not shipped on s10. The manpage commitment level of 'evolving' for the Nevada version of iscsitadm(1m) is a bug. When this command is documented appropriately on release on s10 (as 'Volatile'), I would hope that it would steer customers away from using it with any great sense of stability across releases/patches. We will rectify the interface stability issue at a later time, at which point I would expect an 'upgrade' in the stability classification of this interface. - John Peter Tribble wrote: > On 4/30/07, James Carlson wrote: >> >> The real question is whether any other project or script could >> possibly use this command. If the answer is "no," and there's no >> chance that a customer would (say) include an invocation in a >> jumpstart script, or that something like Explorer would ever attempt >> to invoke it, then "Uncommitted" or "Volatile" might be fair. >> >> Otherwise, I find it surprising that "Volatile" is a useful >> classification for anything other than an experimental or toy >> interface. > > Indeed. I do have an iscsitadm invocation in my jumpstart scripts, > and have an in-house utility something like explorer to capture system > state that invokes iscsitadm. > From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 12:20:37 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJKben019126; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UJJfjH001313; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l3UJJfWn025319; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:19:41 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHB00901S41Y500@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHB00BHQSCQC2B0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:18:16 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: Peter Tribble Cc: James Carlson , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <463640F8.7010100@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1361 Certainly you and others might have scripts based on the manpage that is available in Nevada. As I indicated though, this has not shipped on s10. The manpage commitment level of 'evolving' for the Nevada version of iscsitadm(1m) is a bug. When this command is documented appropriately on release on s10 (as 'Volatile'), I would hope that it would steer customers away from using it with any great sense of stability across releases/patches. We will rectify the interface stability issue at a later time, at which point I would expect an 'upgrade' in the stability classification of this interface. - John Peter Tribble wrote: > On 4/30/07, James Carlson wrote: >> >> The real question is whether any other project or script could >> possibly use this command. If the answer is "no," and there's no >> chance that a customer would (say) include an invocation in a >> jumpstart script, or that something like Explorer would ever attempt >> to invoke it, then "Uncommitted" or "Volatile" might be fair. >> >> Otherwise, I find it surprising that "Volatile" is a useful >> classification for anything other than an experimental or toy >> interface. > > Indeed. I do have an iscsitadm invocation in my jumpstart scripts, > and have an in-house utility something like explorer to capture system > state that invokes iscsitadm. > From sommerfeld@sun.com Mon Apr 30 12:44:23 2007 Received: from eastmail2bur.East.Sun.COM (eastmail2bur.East.Sun.COM [129.148.13.40]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJiNM3019787; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunk.east.sun.com (thunk.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.66]) by eastmail2bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UJhQfG010428; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thunk.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJhPWT007599; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] From: Bill Sommerfeld To: John Forte Cc: Peter Tribble , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, James Carlson , psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com In-Reply-To: <463640F8.7010100@sun.com> References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <463640F8.7010100@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:43:25 -0400 Message-Id: <1177962205.6692.33.camel@thunk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.8.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 730 On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 12:18 -0700, John Forte wrote: > Certainly you and others might have scripts based on the manpage that is > available in Nevada. As I indicated though, this has not shipped on s10. > The manpage commitment level of 'evolving' for the Nevada version of > iscsitadm(1m) is a bug. yes, there was clearly an oversight in the review. I don't think I would have voted to approve 2005/441 if it were clear that the entire administrative interface was Volatile -- I don't believe the iscsi target is complete without an Uncommitted higher administrative interface to its basic facilities. making it Volatile is not exactly obvious, and non-obvious things are not eligible for fast-track review. - Bill From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 12:44:23 2007 Received: from eastmail2bur.East.Sun.COM (eastmail2bur.East.Sun.COM [129.148.13.40]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJiNM3019787; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunk.east.sun.com (thunk.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.66]) by eastmail2bur.East.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l3UJhQfG010428; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thunk.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3UJhPWT007599; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] From: Bill Sommerfeld To: John Forte Cc: Peter Tribble , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, James Carlson , psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com In-Reply-To: <463640F8.7010100@sun.com> References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <17974.12809.116609.193462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <463640F8.7010100@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:43:25 -0400 Message-Id: <1177962205.6692.33.camel@thunk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.8.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 730 On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 12:18 -0700, John Forte wrote: > Certainly you and others might have scripts based on the manpage that is > available in Nevada. As I indicated though, this has not shipped on s10. > The manpage commitment level of 'evolving' for the Nevada version of > iscsitadm(1m) is a bug. yes, there was clearly an oversight in the review. I don't think I would have voted to approve 2005/441 if it were clear that the entire administrative interface was Volatile -- I don't believe the iscsi target is complete without an Uncommitted higher administrative interface to its basic facilities. making it Volatile is not exactly obvious, and non-obvious things are not eligible for fast-track review. - Bill From jek3@sun.com Mon Apr 30 18:15:41 2007 Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (cretaceous [129.146.17.63] (may be forged)) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l411FfVG004265; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.12.53] (vpn-129-150-12-53.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.53]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l411EiZS666791; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46369474.9000402@sun.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:14:28 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Forte CC: James Carlson , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46362264.8050908@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1255 John Forte wrote: > The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris > Express or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, been > delivered to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would change > the manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have expected > that guarantee to be binding in a development release. Touchy point. Since no actual release is scheduled, we can't allow things to remain in flux forever. > As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, > C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the > classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving > is unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. > > And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a > customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, > 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says > otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. Exactly why Evolving bit the dust. LSARC saw it pretty much as Uncommitted. PSARC saw it pretty much as Committed. PSARC was right of course, but you couldn't deny the ambiguity. That said, I think Volatile is a bit loose. Would Uncommitted cause any real grief? - jek3 From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 18:15:41 2007 Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (cretaceous [129.146.17.63] (may be forged)) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l411FfVG004265; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.12.53] (vpn-129-150-12-53.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.53]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l411EiZS666791; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46369474.9000402@sun.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:14:28 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Forte CC: James Carlson , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> In-Reply-To: <46362264.8050908@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Content-Length: 1255 John Forte wrote: > The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris > Express or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, been > delivered to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would change > the manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have expected > that guarantee to be binding in a development release. Touchy point. Since no actual release is scheduled, we can't allow things to remain in flux forever. > As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, > C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the > classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving > is unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. > > And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a > customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, > 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says > otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. Exactly why Evolving bit the dust. LSARC saw it pretty much as Uncommitted. PSARC saw it pretty much as Committed. PSARC was right of course, but you couldn't deny the ambiguity. That said, I think Volatile is a bit loose. Would Uncommitted cause any real grief? - jek3 From John.Forte@Sun.COM Mon Apr 30 18:41:38 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l411fcih004887; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l411egBq011890; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l411efQE016223; Tue, 1 May 2007 01:40:41 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHC00N019QG3D00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([71.139.13.170]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHC00L9F9ZOJE00@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:40:44 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <46369474.9000402@sun.com> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: James Carlson , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <46369474.9000402@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) Status: RO Content-Length: 2285 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > John Forte wrote: >> The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris >> Express or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, >> been delivered to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would >> change the manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have >> expected that guarantee to be binding in a development release. > > Touchy point. Since no actual release is scheduled, we can't allow > things to remain in flux forever. I agree and it would not. See below. > >> As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, >> C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the >> classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving >> is unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. >> >> And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a >> customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, >> 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says >> otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. > Exactly why Evolving bit the dust. LSARC saw it pretty much as > Uncommitted. PSARC saw it pretty much as Committed. PSARC was right > of course, but you couldn't deny the ambiguity. > > That said, I think Volatile is a bit loose. Would Uncommitted cause > any real grief? Yes, in a sense. This is a technology that is still fairly new; new to Sun and fairly new to the storage industry. This is also a technology that is not likely to be immediately deployed in data centers and will benefit greatly from some level of experimental use and feedback on that use. Upon examining the interfaces in that light and in light of a project in the pipeline (in the Nevada timeframe) that has some interaction with this project, we feel that there are some usability issues in the interfaces that will likely cause the interfaces to evolve in an incompatible way. We will most definitely want to upgrade the classification of some of these interfaces and change or eliminate others. In the meantime, we would prefer that customers don't get too attached. I believe that a Volatile classification would still allow the customers to determine the usefulness of the product for their objectives. - John > > - jek3 > From sacadmin Mon Apr 30 18:41:38 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l411fcih004887; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l411egBq011890; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-02.sun.com ([192.18.108.176]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l411efQE016223; Tue, 1 May 2007 01:40:41 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHC00N019QG3D00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([71.139.13.170]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHC00L9F9ZOJE00@mail-amer.sun.com>; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:40:44 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <46369474.9000402@sun.com> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: James Carlson , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <46369474.9000402@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) Status: RO Content-Length: 2285 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > John Forte wrote: >> The only customers that would have seen the manpage are Solaris >> Express or OpenSolaris users. The manpages would have, I believe, >> been delivered to the S10u4 WOS but u4 has not shipped yet. We would >> change the manpages in Nevada and S10 accordingly. I wouldn't have >> expected that guarantee to be binding in a development release. > > Touchy point. Since no actual release is scheduled, we can't allow > things to remain in flux forever. I agree and it would not. See below. > >> As far as I can tell, there was no indication in the ARC material, >> C-team checklist or the manpage CR that indicates what the >> classification should have been. Why it might have been made evolving >> is unknown to me and the engineer has since departed. >> >> And perhaps this isn't necessarily relevant but I believe from a >> customer's perspective, at least according to the attributes(5) page, >> 'Evolving' is 'Uncommitted'. I realize the ARC taxonomy doc says >> otherwise for PSARC OS/Net cases. > Exactly why Evolving bit the dust. LSARC saw it pretty much as > Uncommitted. PSARC saw it pretty much as Committed. PSARC was right > of course, but you couldn't deny the ambiguity. > > That said, I think Volatile is a bit loose. Would Uncommitted cause > any real grief? Yes, in a sense. This is a technology that is still fairly new; new to Sun and fairly new to the storage industry. This is also a technology that is not likely to be immediately deployed in data centers and will benefit greatly from some level of experimental use and feedback on that use. Upon examining the interfaces in that light and in light of a project in the pipeline (in the Nevada timeframe) that has some interaction with this project, we feel that there are some usability issues in the interfaces that will likely cause the interfaces to evolve in an incompatible way. We will most definitely want to upgrade the classification of some of these interfaces and change or eliminate others. In the meantime, we would prefer that customers don't get too attached. I believe that a Volatile classification would still allow the customers to determine the usefulness of the product for their objectives. - John > > - jek3 > From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Tue May 1 04:54:28 2007 Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41BsSpw028220; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41BrV8i016948; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l41BrVB9016945; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:53:31 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17975.10811.361853.868937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 07:53:31 -0400 From: James Carlson To: John Forte Cc: Joseph Kowalski , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-Reply-To: <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <46369474.9000402@sun.com> <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 1355 John Forte writes: > Yes, in a sense. This is a technology that is still fairly new; new to > Sun and fairly new to the storage industry. This is also a technology > that is not likely to be immediately deployed in data centers and will > benefit greatly from some level of experimental use and feedback on that > use. Upon examining the interfaces in that light and in light of a > project in the pipeline (in the Nevada timeframe) that has some > interaction with this project, we feel that there are some usability > issues in the interfaces that will likely cause the interfaces to evolve > in an incompatible way. We will most definitely want to upgrade the > classification of some of these interfaces and change or eliminate > others. In the meantime, we would prefer that customers don't get too > attached. I believe that a Volatile classification would still allow the > customers to determine the usefulness of the product for their objectives. In that case, I'd like to see a draft of the language that will be added to the man page to warn customers of the risks of becoming "attached" to this interface. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From sacadmin Tue May 1 04:54:28 2007 Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (phorcys.East.Sun.COM [129.148.174.143]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41BsSpw028220; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41BrV8i016948; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id l41BrVB9016945; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:53:31 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17975.10811.361853.868937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 07:53:31 -0400 From: James Carlson To: John Forte Cc: Joseph Kowalski , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-Reply-To: <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <46369474.9000402@sun.com> <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 1355 John Forte writes: > Yes, in a sense. This is a technology that is still fairly new; new to > Sun and fairly new to the storage industry. This is also a technology > that is not likely to be immediately deployed in data centers and will > benefit greatly from some level of experimental use and feedback on that > use. Upon examining the interfaces in that light and in light of a > project in the pipeline (in the Nevada timeframe) that has some > interaction with this project, we feel that there are some usability > issues in the interfaces that will likely cause the interfaces to evolve > in an incompatible way. We will most definitely want to upgrade the > classification of some of these interfaces and change or eliminate > others. In the meantime, we would prefer that customers don't get too > attached. I believe that a Volatile classification would still allow the > customers to determine the usefulness of the product for their objectives. In that case, I'd like to see a draft of the language that will be added to the man page to warn customers of the risks of becoming "attached" to this interface. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From John.Forte@Sun.COM Tue May 1 12:18:12 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41JIC6H020091; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41JHHL4025852; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.108.184]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l41JHHLs014715; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:17:17 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHD00701MTAPJ00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHD004X6MWQ6VE1@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:15:50 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <17975.10811.361853.868937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: James Carlson Cc: Joseph Kowalski , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <463791E6.7080400@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <46369474.9000402@sun.com> <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> <17975.10811.361853.868937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1729 James Carlson wrote: > John Forte writes: > >> Yes, in a sense. This is a technology that is still fairly new; new to >> Sun and fairly new to the storage industry. This is also a technology >> that is not likely to be immediately deployed in data centers and will >> benefit greatly from some level of experimental use and feedback on that >> use. Upon examining the interfaces in that light and in light of a >> project in the pipeline (in the Nevada timeframe) that has some >> interaction with this project, we feel that there are some usability >> issues in the interfaces that will likely cause the interfaces to evolve >> in an incompatible way. We will most definitely want to upgrade the >> classification of some of these interfaces and change or eliminate >> others. In the meantime, we would prefer that customers don't get too >> attached. I believe that a Volatile classification would still allow the >> customers to determine the usefulness of the product for their objectives. >> > > In that case, I'd like to see a draft of the language that will be > added to the man page to warn customers of the risks of becoming > "attached" to this interface. > > Mark Carlson will add this text to the case directory once he regains SWAN access unless having it in the email thread is sufficient: "Please note that this command set is considered to be experimental. As such, future releases, both minor and micro, might introduce incompatible changes to the command set. A future release will stabilize the command set. This stability level will be reflected in the man page ATTRIBUTES section of iscsitadm(1m)." Additionally, we would provide similar text in the Release Notes. - John From sacadmin Tue May 1 12:18:12 2007 Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.154.35]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41JIC6H020091; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41JHHL4025852; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.108.184]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l41JHHLs014715; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:17:17 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHD00701MTAPJ00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHD004X6MWQ6VE1@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:15:50 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <17975.10811.361853.868937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: James Carlson Cc: Joseph Kowalski , Mark Carlson , PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <463791E6.7080400@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <46369474.9000402@sun.com> <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> <17975.10811.361853.868937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1729 James Carlson wrote: > John Forte writes: > >> Yes, in a sense. This is a technology that is still fairly new; new to >> Sun and fairly new to the storage industry. This is also a technology >> that is not likely to be immediately deployed in data centers and will >> benefit greatly from some level of experimental use and feedback on that >> use. Upon examining the interfaces in that light and in light of a >> project in the pipeline (in the Nevada timeframe) that has some >> interaction with this project, we feel that there are some usability >> issues in the interfaces that will likely cause the interfaces to evolve >> in an incompatible way. We will most definitely want to upgrade the >> classification of some of these interfaces and change or eliminate >> others. In the meantime, we would prefer that customers don't get too >> attached. I believe that a Volatile classification would still allow the >> customers to determine the usefulness of the product for their objectives. >> > > In that case, I'd like to see a draft of the language that will be > added to the man page to warn customers of the risks of becoming > "attached" to this interface. > > Mark Carlson will add this text to the case directory once he regains SWAN access unless having it in the email thread is sufficient: "Please note that this command set is considered to be experimental. As such, future releases, both minor and micro, might introduce incompatible changes to the command set. A future release will stabilize the command set. This stability level will be reflected in the man page ATTRIBUTES section of iscsitadm(1m)." Additionally, we would provide similar text in the Release Notes. - John From gww@eng.sun.com Tue May 1 12:25:53 2007 Received: from engmail3mpk.sfbay.Sun.COM (engmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.26]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41JPrGK020361; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by engmail3mpk.sfbay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41JOv63003991; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l41JQRDK017813; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id l41JQRaP017812; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Winiger Message-Id: <200705011926.l41JQRaP017812@marduk.eng.sun.com> To: James.D.Carlson@sun.com, John.Forte@sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] Cc: jek3@sun.com, markcarl@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Status: RO Content-Length: 1208 > Mark Carlson will add this text to the case directory once he regains > SWAN access unless having it in the email thread is sufficient: > > "Please note that this command set is considered to be experimental. As > such, future releases, both minor and micro, might introduce > incompatible changes to the command set. A future release will stabilize > the command set. This stability level will be reflected in the man page > ATTRIBUTES section of iscsitadm(1m)." > > Additionally, we would provide similar text in the Release Notes. Is there any impact on the (related??) iscsiadm command? System Administration Commands iscsiadm(1M) ____________________________________________________________ | ATTRIBUTE TYPE | ATTRIBUTE VALUE | |_____________________________|_____________________________| | Availability | SUNWiscsiu | |_____________________________|_____________________________| | Interface Stability | Evolving | |_____________________________|_____________________________| SunOS 5.11 Last change: 6 Mar 2006 16 Gary.. From sacadmin Tue May 1 12:25:53 2007 Received: from engmail3mpk.sfbay.Sun.COM (engmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.26]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41JPrGK020361; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by engmail3mpk.sfbay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41JOv63003991; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l41JQRDK017813; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id l41JQRaP017812; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Winiger Message-Id: <200705011926.l41JQRaP017812@marduk.eng.sun.com> To: James.D.Carlson@sun.com, John.Forte@sun.com Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] Cc: jek3@sun.com, markcarl@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@sun.com, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Status: RO Content-Length: 1208 > Mark Carlson will add this text to the case directory once he regains > SWAN access unless having it in the email thread is sufficient: > > "Please note that this command set is considered to be experimental. As > such, future releases, both minor and micro, might introduce > incompatible changes to the command set. A future release will stabilize > the command set. This stability level will be reflected in the man page > ATTRIBUTES section of iscsitadm(1m)." > > Additionally, we would provide similar text in the Release Notes. Is there any impact on the (related??) iscsiadm command? System Administration Commands iscsiadm(1M) ____________________________________________________________ | ATTRIBUTE TYPE | ATTRIBUTE VALUE | |_____________________________|_____________________________| | Availability | SUNWiscsiu | |_____________________________|_____________________________| | Interface Stability | Evolving | |_____________________________|_____________________________| SunOS 5.11 Last change: 6 Mar 2006 16 Gary.. From John.Forte@Sun.COM Tue May 1 12:29:26 2007 Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sfbaymail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.42]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41JTQK3020569; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41JSVtp009368; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l41JSUU3000526; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:28:30 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHD00H01NDUHH00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHD00JWZNFHJDL0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:27:05 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <200705011926.l41JQRaP017812@marduk.eng.sun.com> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: Gary Winiger Cc: James.D.Carlson@Sun.COM, jek3@Sun.COM, markcarl@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <46379489.7090904@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200705011926.l41JQRaP017812@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1390 Gary Winiger wrote: >> Mark Carlson will add this text to the case directory once he regains >> SWAN access unless having it in the email thread is sufficient: >> >> "Please note that this command set is considered to be experimental. As >> such, future releases, both minor and micro, might introduce >> incompatible changes to the command set. A future release will stabilize >> the command set. This stability level will be reflected in the man page >> ATTRIBUTES section of iscsitadm(1m)." >> >> Additionally, we would provide similar text in the Release Notes. >> > > Is there any impact on the (related??) iscsiadm command? > > System Administration Commands iscsiadm(1M) > > ____________________________________________________________ > | ATTRIBUTE TYPE | ATTRIBUTE VALUE | > |_____________________________|_____________________________| > | Availability | SUNWiscsiu | > |_____________________________|_____________________________| > | Interface Stability | Evolving | > |_____________________________|_____________________________| > > SunOS 5.11 Last change: 6 Mar 2006 16 > > Gary.. > > No. It would be highly unlikely that the command set for iscsiadm would change in any incompatible way. - John From sacadmin Tue May 1 12:29:26 2007 Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sfbaymail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.42]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l41JTQK3020569; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l41JSVtp009368; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-01.sun.com ([192.18.108.175]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l41JSUU3000526; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:28:30 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHD00H01NDUHH00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Forte@Sun.COM); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.56.52] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHD00JWZNFHJDL0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Tue, 01 May 2007 13:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:27:05 -0700 From: John Forte Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <200705011926.l41JQRaP017812@marduk.eng.sun.com> Sender: John.Forte@Sun.COM To: Gary Winiger Cc: James.D.Carlson@Sun.COM, jek3@Sun.COM, markcarl@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC@sac.sfbay.sun.com, san-extstaff@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Message-id: <46379489.7090904@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200705011926.l41JQRaP017812@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (X11/20060915) Status: RO Content-Length: 1390 Gary Winiger wrote: >> Mark Carlson will add this text to the case directory once he regains >> SWAN access unless having it in the email thread is sufficient: >> >> "Please note that this command set is considered to be experimental. As >> such, future releases, both minor and micro, might introduce >> incompatible changes to the command set. A future release will stabilize >> the command set. This stability level will be reflected in the man page >> ATTRIBUTES section of iscsitadm(1m)." >> >> Additionally, we would provide similar text in the Release Notes. >> > > Is there any impact on the (related??) iscsiadm command? > > System Administration Commands iscsiadm(1M) > > ____________________________________________________________ > | ATTRIBUTE TYPE | ATTRIBUTE VALUE | > |_____________________________|_____________________________| > | Availability | SUNWiscsiu | > |_____________________________|_____________________________| > | Interface Stability | Evolving | > |_____________________________|_____________________________| > > SunOS 5.11 Last change: 6 Mar 2006 16 > > Gary.. > > No. It would be highly unlikely that the command set for iscsiadm would change in any incompatible way. - John From Mark.Carlson@Sun.COM Wed May 2 10:21:53 2007 Received: from sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sfbaymail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.42]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l42HLro4022781 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 10:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by sfbaymail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id l42HKuQS000413 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 10:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.108.183]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l42HKu2j014902 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:20:56 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JHF00501B8FH700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Mark.Carlson@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 11:20:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.39.65.247] ([129.150.32.85]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JHF0049WC693CC0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 02 May 2007 11:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 11:20:29 -0600 From: "Mark A. Carlson" Subject: Re: iscsitadm Interface Classification [PSARC/2007/246 Timeout: 05/07/2007] In-reply-to: <463791E6.7080400@sun.com> Sender: Mark.Carlson@Sun.COM To: John Forte , psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: san-extstaff@Sun.COM Message-id: <4638C85D.8020606@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704301612.l3UGCLBC009631@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <17974.6077.960028.970068@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46362264.8050908@sun.com> <46369474.9000402@sun.com> <46369A9C.6010302@sun.com> <17975.10811.361853.868937@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <463791E6.7080400@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Macintosh/20060909) Status: RO Content-Length: 1975 This is captured in the file: ProposedManPageText.txt in the case directory. In response to requests for more time, I've extended the timer to next Weds, 9th May. -- mark John Forte wrote: > James Carlson wrote: >> John Forte writes: >> >>> Yes, in a sense. This is a technology that is still fairly new; new >>> to Sun and fairly new to the storage industry. This is also a >>> technology that is not likely to be immediately deployed in data >>> centers and will benefit greatly from some level of experimental use >>> and feedback on that use. Upon examining the interfaces in that >>> light and in light of a project in the pipeline (in the Nevada >>> timeframe) that has some interaction with this project, we feel that >>> there are some usability issues in the interfaces that will likely >>> cause the interfaces to evolve in an incompatible way. We will most >>> definitely want to upgrade the classification of some of these >>> interfaces and change or eliminate others. In the meantime, we would >>> prefer that customers don't get too attached. I believe that a >>> Volatile classification would still allow the customers to determine >>> the usefulness of the product for their objectives. >>> >> >> In that case, I'd like to see a draft of the language that will be >> added to the man page to warn customers of the risks of becoming >> "attached" to this interface. >> >> > Mark Carlson will add this text to the case directory once he regains > SWAN access unless having it in the email thread is sufficient: > > "Please note that this command set is considered to be experimental. > As such, future releases, both minor and micro, might introduce > incompatible changes to the command set. A future release will > stabilize the command set. This stability level will be reflected in > the man page ATTRIBUTES section of iscsitadm(1m)." > > Additionally, we would provide similar text in the Release Notes. > > - John > > > >