From sacadmin Tue Dec  4 21:46:39 2007
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:46:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Memishian <meem@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
Message-Id: <200712050546.lB55kcjt023008@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com
Subject: Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses [PSARC/2007/677 FastTrack timeout 12/12/2007]
Status: RO
Content-Length: 571


Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI
This information is Copyright 2007 Sun Microsystems
1. Introduction
    1.1. Project/Component Working Name:
	 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
    1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier:
	 Author:  Paul Wernau
    1.3  Date of This Document:
	04 December, 2007
4. Technical Description
    See the case directory for more detail

6. Resources and Schedule
    6.4. Steering Committee requested information
   	6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name:
		ON
    6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack
    6.6. ARC Exposure: open


From sacadmin Wed Dec  5 09:07:23 2007
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:05:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Gary Winiger <gww@eng.sun.com>
Message-Id: <200712051705.lB5H5hB2007765@marduk.eng.sun.com>
To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com, meem@sac.sfbay.sun.com
Subject: Re: Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses [PSARC/2007/677 FastTrack timeout 12/12/2007]
Status: RO
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> Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI
> This information is Copyright 2007 Sun Microsystems
> 1. Introduction
>     1.1. Project/Component Working Name:
> 	 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
>     1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier:
> 	 Author:  Paul Wernau
>     1.3  Date of This Document:
> 	04 December, 2007
> 4. Technical Description
>     See the case directory for more detail
> 
> 6. Resources and Schedule
>     6.4. Steering Committee requested information
>    	6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name:
> 		ON
>     6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack
>     6.6. ARC Exposure: open

	Timer running, however, this case no content.

Fast-tracks:
     2007/677 (12/12/07) open Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses

Gary..

From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Dec  5 09:25:40 2007
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:25:37 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <peter.memishian@sun.com>
Subject: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
To: psarc-ext@sun.com
Cc: paul.wernau@sun.com
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I'm sponsoring this change for Paul Wernau; the timer is set for next
Wednesday, December 12th.

  Today, ypinit -c and the /var/yp/binding/`domainname`/ypservers file
  that is created by the command require the use of hostnames that are
  listed in the local /etc/inet/hosts file.  IP addresses are rejected by
  ypinit(1M) and are parsed as invalid by ypbind(1M).

  Using IP addresses directly is useful in a highly automated environment,
  such as punchin, inetmenu, etc, where the entries are transient and
  subject to change and modifying the hosts file directly is error-prone
  and as a shared file is subject to user modifications.

  This case proposes to:

  - Modify ypbind to attempt to parse entries in the ypservers file
    as v4/v6 addresses if local hostname resolution fails and directly
    bind to the listed IP address.

  - Relax the restrictions on ypinit -c to allow the entry of IP
    addresses.  The -s and -m options will retain the restriction,
    since propagating the change to servers opens up the possibility of
    sending unparsable data to clients and servers that might either be
    ignored or, on non-Solaris systems, expose bugs[1].  In a distributed
    server environment, it is expected that the name resolution
    maintenance is part of the infrastructure.

  [1] Testing by Paul on Solaris reveals this works fine -- and the
      relevant bits of code go back to SunOS4.

-- 
meem

From sacadmin Wed Dec  5 09:26:14 2007
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:26:12 -0500
To: Gary Winiger <gww@eng.sun.com>
Cc: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com, meem@sac.sfbay.sun.com
Subject: Re: Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses [PSARC/2007/677 FastTrack
 timeout 12/12/2007]
In-Reply-To: <200712051705.lB5H5hB2007765@marduk.eng.sun.com>
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 > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI
 > > This information is Copyright 2007 Sun Microsystems
 > > 1. Introduction
 > >     1.1. Project/Component Working Name:
 > > 	 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
 > >     1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier:
 > > 	 Author:  Paul Wernau
 > >     1.3  Date of This Document:
 > > 	04 December, 2007
 > > 4. Technical Description
 > >     See the case directory for more detail
 > > 
 > > 6. Resources and Schedule
 > >     6.4. Steering Committee requested information
 > >    	6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name:
 > > 		ON
 > >     6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack
 > >     6.6. ARC Exposure: open
 > 
 > 	Timer running, however, this case no content.
 > 
 > Fast-tracks:
 >      2007/677 (12/12/07) open Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses

Sorry about that, I had to resolve something at the last minute with the
submitter.  The case has content now.

-- 
meem

From gww@eng.sun.com Wed Dec  5 10:07:05 2007
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:05:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Gary Winiger <gww@eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
To: psarc-ext@sun.com, peter.memishian@sun.com
Cc: paul.wernau@sun.com
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> I'm sponsoring this change for Paul Wernau; the timer is set for next
> Wednesday, December 12th.

	Ah the content ;-).  Interface stability?  Release binding?

Gary..

From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Dec  5 10:23:12 2007
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:22:58 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
In-reply-to: <200712051805.lB5I5MXb007870@marduk.eng.sun.com>
To: Gary Winiger <gww@eng.sun.com>
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 > > I'm sponsoring this change for Paul Wernau; the timer is set for next
 > > Wednesday, December 12th.
 > 
 > 	Ah the content ;-).  Interface stability?  Release binding?

Doh, I knew I forgot something ;-)

Interface stability is Committed.  Release binding is minor.

-- 
meem

From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Wed Dec  5 10:25:31 2007
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:25:23 -0600
From: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
In-reply-to: <18262.60546.841248.464131@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
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On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:22:58PM -0500, Peter Memishian wrote:
>                                    Release binding is minor.

Why not patch/micro?

From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Dec  5 10:28:00 2007
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:27:47 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
In-reply-to: <20071205182523.GB6985@Sun.COM>
To: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
Cc: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>, Gary Winiger <gww@eng.sun.com>,
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 > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:22:58PM -0500, Peter Memishian wrote:
 > >                                    Release binding is minor.
 > 
 > Why not patch/micro?

It's conceivable (though unlikely) that there are customer scripts that
parse the contents of the ypservers file and would choke on IP addresses.

-- 
meem

From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Wed Dec  5 10:34:25 2007
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From: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:27:47PM -0500, Peter Memishian wrote:
> 
>  > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:22:58PM -0500, Peter Memishian wrote:
>  > >                                    Release binding is minor.
>  > 
>  > Why not patch/micro?
> 
> It's conceivable (though unlikely) that there are customer scripts that
> parse the contents of the ypservers file and would choke on IP addresses.

But the obvious answer to that is "don't use IP addresses then" -- as
long as the default behavioud of ypinit doesn't change then all should
be fine.

From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Dec  5 10:38:09 2007
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From: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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 > >  > Why not patch/micro?
 > > 
 > > It's conceivable (though unlikely) that there are customer scripts that
 > > parse the contents of the ypservers file and would choke on IP addresses.
 > 
 > But the obvious answer to that is "don't use IP addresses then" -- as
 > long as the default behavioud of ypinit doesn't change then all should
 > be fine.

Using IP addresses is easy to do by accident (in fact, everyone I've
talked to has tried to do this the first time when setting up NIS),
so I wanted to err on the side of caution.

But if everyone wants this to be patch, that's fine too.

-- 
meem

From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Dec  5 10:50:55 2007
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:50:42 +0000
From: Darren J Moffat <Darren.Moffat@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Peter Memishian wrote:
>  > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:22:58PM -0500, Peter Memishian wrote:
>  > >                                    Release binding is minor.
>  > 
>  > Why not patch/micro?
> 
> It's conceivable (though unlikely) that there are customer scripts that
> parse the contents of the ypservers file and would choke on IP addresses.

The change only allows for IP addresses in that file (who's format is 
not actually documented and it is usually generated by ypinit).  If 
customers start giving IP addresses to ypinit and they have scripts that 
attempt to parse ypservers directly then they should know they have to 
deal with this.

I think this is acceptable for patch binding.

If however the change was to stop putting names into ypservers even if 
names were passed to ypinit I would say it wasn't suitable for patch 
binding - but that isn't what the proposal says.

-- 
Darren J Moffat

From Darren.Reed@Sun.COM Wed Dec  5 16:24:47 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:24:30 +1100
From: Darren Reed <Darren.Reed@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Peter Memishian wrote:
> ...
>   Using IP addresses directly is useful in a highly automated environment,
>   such as punchin, inetmenu, etc, where the entries are transient and
>   subject to change and modifying the hosts file directly is error-prone
>   and as a shared file is subject to user modifications.
>   

Given the target use of the change proposed by this case,
has thought been given to allowing ypinit to be invoked in
a manner that doesn't require any prompting?

For example:

ypinit -C 192.12.18.1

...to initialise a client with 192.12.18.1 as its NIS server and
having ypinit behave in a manner more suited to being invoked
by something else rather than from the command line.

Although this is potentially  beyond the scope of this case..

Darren


From Paul.Wernau@Sun.COM Thu Dec  6 09:04:52 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:04:32 -0500
From: Paul Wernau <Paul.Wernau@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Darren Reed wrote:
> Peter Memishian wrote:
>> ...
>>   Using IP addresses directly is useful in a highly automated 
>> environment,
>>   such as punchin, inetmenu, etc, where the entries are transient and
>>   subject to change and modifying the hosts file directly is error-prone
>>   and as a shared file is subject to user modifications.
>>   
> 
> Given the target use of the change proposed by this case,
> has thought been given to allowing ypinit to be invoked in
> a manner that doesn't require any prompting?
> 
> For example:
> 
> ypinit -C 192.12.18.1
> 
> ...to initialise a client with 192.12.18.1 as its NIS server and
> having ypinit behave in a manner more suited to being invoked
> by something else rather than from the command line.

Do others find this useful?  One could simply write to the file 
directly.  It's listed in the ypinit man page under FILES, so I assume 
this is fair game.  ypinit would offer some sort of sanity check, but 
then we get into the CLI parsing game when trying to add more than one 
address, etc.  If the ypservers file is considered an out in the open 
interface, I say this is out of scope.  If not (which is not realistic, 
IMO), then I'd consider it.

I've heard others want to add -B for broadcast mode, etc.  There are a 
lot of potential RFEs here and the ypinit shell script really needs a 
good re-write, but I don't necessarily want this small enhancement to 
spiral on as the testing and risk increase dramatically for a feature 
that is hopefully starting its slow, painful death.

-Paul


From gdamore@sun.com Thu Dec  6 09:13:05 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:07:37 -0800
From: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Paul Wernau wrote:
>
>
> Darren Reed wrote:
>> Peter Memishian wrote:
>>> ...
>>>   Using IP addresses directly is useful in a highly automated 
>>> environment,
>>>   such as punchin, inetmenu, etc, where the entries are transient and
>>>   subject to change and modifying the hosts file directly is 
>>> error-prone
>>>   and as a shared file is subject to user modifications.
>>>   
>>
>> Given the target use of the change proposed by this case,
>> has thought been given to allowing ypinit to be invoked in
>> a manner that doesn't require any prompting?
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> ypinit -C 192.12.18.1
>>
>> ...to initialise a client with 192.12.18.1 as its NIS server and
>> having ypinit behave in a manner more suited to being invoked
>> by something else rather than from the command line.
>
> Do others find this useful?  One could simply write to the file 
> directly.  It's listed in the ypinit man page under FILES, so I assume 
> this is fair game.  ypinit would offer some sort of sanity check, but 
> then we get into the CLI parsing game when trying to add more than one 
> address, etc.  If the ypservers file is considered an out in the open 
> interface, I say this is out of scope.  If not (which is not 
> realistic, IMO), then I'd consider it.
>
> I've heard others want to add -B for broadcast mode, etc.  There are a 
> lot of potential RFEs here and the ypinit shell script really needs a 
> good re-write, but I don't necessarily want this small enhancement to 
> spiral on as the testing and risk increase dramatically for a feature 
> that is hopefully starting its slow, painful death.

ypinit -B would be really, really useful to me, and probably others besides.

Especially with NWAM, where I want to go back and forth into my NIS 
environment, or into different NIS environments on SWAN, and then leave 
these NIS environments when I go mobile.

But anyway, I think NIS is not likely to die anytime soon.  It is 
heavily entrenched in a lot of customer sites.  And until we can ship a 
reasonable LDAP server implementation, NIS will always have a niche.

(The problems with LDAP that prevent it from use on my networks are: 1) 
too hard to setup/configure server, 2) requirement that LDAP master be a 
dedicated machine... i.e. LDAP master cannot also be its own LDAP 
client).  The other problem I've heard with our LDAP implementation is 
that it doesn't support full auditing on the server side.  While NIS 
does this neither, I understand that its a significant shortcoming.)

    -- Garrett


From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Thu Dec  6 09:27:04 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:26:47 +0000
From: Darren J Moffat <Darren.Moffat@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Paul Wernau wrote:
> Do others find this useful?  One could simply write to the file 
> directly.  It's listed in the ypinit man page under FILES, so I assume 
> this is fair game.

The name of the file is but the format of it is not.  It isn't clear 
what the interface taxonomy of the file really is given how old it is. 
I'd personally say that even though it isn't documented it is probably 
de facto Committed.


-- 
Darren J Moffat

From Paul.Wernau@sun.com Thu Dec  6 11:05:24 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:05:12 -0500
From: Paul Wernau <Paul.Wernau@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Darren J Moffat wrote:
> Paul Wernau wrote:
>> Do others find this useful?  One could simply write to the file 
>> directly.  It's listed in the ypinit man page under FILES, so I assume 
>> this is fair game.
> 
> The name of the file is but the format of it is not.  It isn't clear 
> what the interface taxonomy of the file really is given how old it is. 
> I'd personally say that even though it isn't documented it is probably 
> de facto Committed.

That's my personal feeling as well.  It is naive to think that the 
format is not relied upon.  It is sedimented into support documentation 
all over the place, including for other operating systems, where it is 
consistent with solaris.  Further ypfiles(4) ambiguously describes it to 
some degree.  To change this format would be a support nightmare.

-Paul


From Paul.Wernau@sun.com Thu Dec  6 11:36:21 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:36:15 -0500
From: Paul Wernau <Paul.Wernau@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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> ypinit -B would be really, really useful to me, and probably others 
> besides.
> 
> Especially with NWAM, where I want to go back and forth into my NIS 
> environment, or into different NIS environments on SWAN, and then leave 
> these NIS environments when I go mobile.
> 

OK, but adding -B as an environment swapping interface seems like a 
crutch for shortcomings in NWAM and other applications that might want 
to control this.

... punchin, inetmenu, etc...

One of the exact reasons I wanted IP addresses instead of names is for 
applications like this.  It seems like what you're really describing is 
something I'd call ypswitch.

(Don't take this as well-thought out code, just an example of the scope 
I would expect to make the follow-on case worthwhile in the context 
you'd described).

pseudo-command:

ypswitch -D <domainname> <-b|-C [ip1[ip2,...]]|-d> [-t]

b is broadcast mode, -C lists one or more direct bindings, -d is disable 
back to DNS.  -t is for temporary.

The pseudo-code, possible after the original proposed case is...

--
  getopts()

  disable_flag?
	svcadm disable (-t) nis/client
	no temp flag?
		rm /etc/defaultdomain
	nsswitch stuff
	exit
	
  domainname $domain
  dom_dir=/var/yp/binding/`domainname`
  [ ! -d $dom_dir ] && mkdir -p $dom_dir

  broadcast_flag?
	[ -f $dom_dir/ypservers ] && rm -f $dom_dir/ypservers

  C_flag?
	validations...
	cat /dev/null > $dom_dir/ypservers
	for IP in ip list; do
		echo $IP >> $dom_dir/ypservers
	done

  nsswitch.conf wranglings here based on options...

  svcadm disable -s (-t) nis/client; svcadm enable -t nis/client

---

In fact, this really should be a part of a larger name service switcher 
interface for mobile users.  There's a lot of things to think about here 
related to customizations and profiles, etc.  So, broadcast or other 
non-interactive modes seem to fit into a better general purpose 
interface.  Very worthwhile, but out of scope, potentially.  I'd prefer 
to see this feature set and discussion be thought out in the context of 
NWAM, because that is where it is most useful and where name service 
configurations are a transient entity.

In fact, the purpose of this case is to allow back-end things like this 
to be able to do manipulation based on having enough information to do 
the job.  For example, you get some information from DHCP, which may 
include a NIS domain and/or a NIS server IP address.  Based on that, 
your eventhook file (or NWAM) can set up NIS as it wants to *in a very 
simple manner*.  Same for potentially mDNS custom records.

Anyway, I don't think your suggestion is a bad idea, but it should be 
one that is separated out (keeping in mind backporting and the like).  I 
might be able to be convinced otherwise or to open another case for the 
follow-up :)

Thanks,
Paul

From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Thu Dec  6 11:46:14 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:46:09 -0600
From: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 02:36:15PM -0500, Paul Wernau wrote:
> [description of "ypswitch" elided]
> 
> In fact, this really should be a part of a larger name service switcher 
> interface for mobile users.  There's a lot of things to think about here 

There is a project for that: Duckwater.

From Paul.Wernau@sun.com Thu Dec  6 11:58:16 2007
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:58:01 -0500
From: Paul Wernau <Paul.Wernau@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Nicolas Williams wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 02:36:15PM -0500, Paul Wernau wrote:
>> [description of "ypswitch" elided]
>>
>> In fact, this really should be a part of a larger name service switcher 
>> interface for mobile users.  There's a lot of things to think about here 
> 
> There is a project for that: Duckwater.

I just looked it up.  Yet another wonderfully descriptive codename :)

It looks like it does exactly what I've described in the bigger picture 
- cool!  So, IMO, that's where -B (and the -C option, also described 
there) belong.

Thanks for the pointer!
Paul

From Darren.Reed@sun.com Thu Dec  6 14:55:15 2007
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Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:54:55 +1100
From: Darren Reed <Darren.Reed@sun.com>
Subject: Re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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Nicolas Williams wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 02:36:15PM -0500, Paul Wernau wrote:
>   
>> [description of "ypswitch" elided]
>>
>> In fact, this really should be a part of a larger name service switcher 
>> interface for mobile users.  There's a lot of things to think about here 
>>     
>
> There is a project for that: Duckwater.
>   

Unrelated to this case...

When can we expect to see some PSARC materials for Duckwater?

So far the only reference for Duckwater is PSARC/2006/247 and it isn't
obvious from that onepager that the scope of Duckwater would cover this.

Or is my searching of PSARC archives not working?

Darren


From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Fri Dec 14 00:50:57 2007
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:50:48 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <peter.memishian@sun.com>
Subject: re: PSARC/2007/677 Allow ypinit -c to use IP addresses
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This case was approved a this week's PSARC meeting.

-- 
meem

