From sacadmin Wed Feb 6 14:10:42 2008 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m16MAgsX000351; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:10:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from johnf@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m16MAggo000347; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:10:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:10:42 -0800 (PST) From: John Fischer Message-Id: <200802062210.m16MAggo000347@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Python Setuptools [PSARC/2008/084 FastTrack timeout 02/13/2008] Status: RO Content-Length: 565 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Python Setuptools 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Darren Kenny 1.3 Date of This Document: 06 February, 2008 4. Technical Description See the case directory for more detail 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: JDS - Desktop 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From John.Fischer@sun.com Wed Feb 6 14:23:36 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m16MNa7a000614 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m16MNYOo022252 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JVU0051T8VAT100@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JVU003I68V85F50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m16MNWG1018844 for ; Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JVU00M018PUFZ00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Fischer@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.10.6] ([24.10.86.139]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JVU008AP8V3HV70@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:23:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 14:23:19 -0800 From: John Fischer Subject: PSARC/2008/084 - Python Setuptools Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: psarc-ext@sun.com Cc: Darren Kenny , Dermot McCluskey Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <47AA3357.10705@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070622) Status: RO Content-Length: 279 PSARC, For those of you who watch the new case email to PSARC... I will be submitting this case soon. Just prior to sending it to the committee I noticed a problem. As soon as this problem is resolved I will send the case to the committee and reset the timer. Thanks, John From John.Fischer@sun.com Thu Feb 7 16:28:39 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m180ScxJ020256 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m180SWJe029111 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:28:37 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JVW001019BNRO00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JVW00L8Q9BM5L50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m180SYf2029368 for ; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JVW00A0197J5100@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from John.Fischer@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.10.6] ([24.10.86.139]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JVW00BC69BD8K90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:28:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:28:14 -0800 From: John Fischer Subject: PSARC/2008/084 - Python Setuptools Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: psarc-ext@sun.com Cc: Darren Kenny , Dermot McCluskey , John Fischer Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <47ABA21E.5050302@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_H23Kjyj3pfSEeDwkVG251w)" X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070622) Status: RO Content-Length: 6955 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_H23Kjyj3pfSEeDwkVG251w) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT PSARC, I am sponsoring this fast track for Darren Kenny of the Gnome group in Dublin, Ireland. I have set the timeout for Thursday February 14th, 2008. The case directory contains this proposal. This project proposes to integrate the Python Setuptools project into a Minor release of Solaris. The Python setuptools is an Open Source collection of enhancements to the Python distutils that allow you to more easily build and distribute Python packages, especially ones that have dependencies on other Python packages. Thus this is primarily a Python developer tool set. Thanks, John --Boundary_(ID_H23Kjyj3pfSEeDwkVG251w) Content-type: text/plain; name=proposal.txt Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline; filename=proposal.txt 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Python Setuptools 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Darren Kenny 1.3. Date of This Document: 01/31/08 1.3.1. Date this project was conceived: 2005 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): 1.4.1. The PAC or CPT you expect to review your project: Solaris PAC 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: LSARC 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: robert.odea@sun.com 1.4.4. The name of your business unit: OPG / OpenSource. 1.5. Email Aliases: 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: leo.binchy@sun.com 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: darren.kenny@sun.com 1.5.3. Marketing Manager: dan.roberts@sun.com 1.5.4. Interest List: desktop-discuss@opensolaris.org 4. Technical Description: 4.1. Details: Python setuptools is an Open Source collection of enhancements to the Python distutils (included in SUNWPython-extra) that allow you to more easily build and distribute Python packages, especially ones that have dependencies on other packages. It is primarily a developer tool, to enable easy installation of dependencies and distrubution of packages, but it has some user benefit too given that the installation of additional Python modules is make easier. The main feature that it provides are: - Automatically find/download/install/upgrade dependencies at build time using the EasyInstall tool, which supports downloading via HTTP, FTP, Subversion, and SourceForge, and automatically scans web pages linked from PyPI to find download links. (It's the closest thing to CPAN currently available for Python.) - Create Python Eggs - a single-file importable distribution format - Include data files inside your package directories, where your code can actually use them. - Automatically include all packages in your source tree, without listing them individually in setup.py - Automatically include all relevant files in your source distributions, without needing to create a MANIFEST.in file, and without having to force regeneration of the MANIFEST file when your source tree changes. - Automatically generate wrapper scripts for any number of "main" functions in your project. - Transparent Pyrex support, so that your setup.py can list .pyx files and still work even when the end-user doesn't have Pyrex installed (as long as you include the Pyrex-generated C in your source distribution) - Command aliases - create project-specific, per-user, or site-wide shortcut names for commonly used commands and options - PyPI upload support - upload your source distributions and eggs to PyPI - Deploy your project in "development mode", such that it's available on sys.path, yet can still be edited directly from its source checkout. - Easily extend the distutils with new commands or setup() arguments, and distribute/reuse your extensions for multiple projects, without copying code. - Create extensible applications and frameworks that automatically discover extensions, using simple "entry points" declared in a project's setup script. The version being integrated is 0.6c7 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): None. 4.3. In Scope: See above. 4.4. Out of Scope: See above. 4.5. Interfaces: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Exported Stability Comments -------------------------------------------------------------------- SUNWpython-setuptools Uncommitted Package name /usr/bin/eazy_install Uncommitted utility to install Egg Modules /usr/bin/eazy_install-2.4 Uncommitted Python version specific setuptools Uncommitted Python module -------------------------------------------------------------------- Imported Stability Comments -------------------------------------------------------------------- Python 2.4.x External PSARC 2005/532 4.6. Doc Impact: manpages will be provided that documents the usage of easy_install and a pointer to on-line setuptools documentation. 4.7. Admin/Config Impact: None. 4.8. HA Impact: None. 4.9. I18N/L10N Impact: The JDS team and the G11N are working together to evaluation and provide I18N/L10N support. 4.10. Packaging & Delivery: Adds new package, SUNWpython-setuptools, approx 968 KB. Package will go into SUNWCall, SUNWCXall and SUNWCprog clusters. 4.11. Security Impact: None. 4.12. Dependencies: The following versions of the imported interfaces are required: Python >= 2.3 5. Reference Documents: PSARC 2005/532, Python migration from /usr/sfw to /usr and upgrade to v2.4.x SetupTools http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools EazyInstall http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall PythonEggs http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs --Boundary_(ID_H23Kjyj3pfSEeDwkVG251w)-- From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Thu Feb 7 19:54:38 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m183scJm024903 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 19:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m183sSs7004331; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 03:54:32 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JVW00303IUU3300@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:54:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JVW00FAHIUTFR50@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:54:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m183sTxA007406; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m183sTvW007405; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:54:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:54:29 -0800 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/084 - Python Setuptools In-reply-to: <47ABA21E.5050302@sun.com> To: John Fischer Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, Darren Kenny , Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <20080208035429.GU6789@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47ABA21E.5050302@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Status: RO Content-Length: 1123 John Fischer wrote: > > - Automatically find/download/install/upgrade dependencies at build > time using the EasyInstall tool, which supports downloading via > HTTP, FTP, Subversion, and SourceForge, and automatically scans web > pages linked from PyPI to find download links. (It's the closest > thing to CPAN currently available for Python.) Where do these bits end up by default? $HOME, `pwd`, somewhere else? Is there a "system" install where they become available to all users and/or a private install where they are available only by the user running this? > /usr/bin/eazy_install Uncommitted utility to install Egg Modules > > /usr/bin/eazy_install-2.4 Uncommitted Python version specific Is one a hard|soft link to the other? I assume the versioned one is to enable providing a newer one alongside in the future. If so don't you want the unversioned to be Volatile? Do you anticipate a future /usr/bin/eazy_install-3.0 (or whichever) to also ship in SUNWpython-setuptools? -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From Darren.Kenny@sun.com Fri Feb 8 03:47:00 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m18Bkxdh004874 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 03:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m18Bkue8013125 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:46:58 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JVX00C0F4Q8XS00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JVX007794Q68F50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:46:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m18BkruX018456 for ; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:46:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JVX00K014IJSO00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:46:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.150.121.192] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JVX000BH4Q41R80@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:46:53 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:46:39 +0000 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/084 - Python Setuptools In-reply-to: <20080208035429.GU6789@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Kenny@sun.com To: Jyri Virkki Cc: John Fischer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <47AC411F.703@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47ABA21E.5050302@sun.com> <20080208035429.GU6789@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080128) Status: RO Content-Length: 3967 Hi Jyri, Jyri Virkki wrote: > John Fischer wrote: >> - Automatically find/download/install/upgrade dependencies at build >> time using the EasyInstall tool, which supports downloading via >> HTTP, FTP, Subversion, and SourceForge, and automatically scans web >> pages linked from PyPI to find download links. (It's the closest >> thing to CPAN currently available for Python.) > > Where do these bits end up by default? $HOME, `pwd`, somewhere else? By default it will install in /site-packages (in our case /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages. If you attempt to do this when you don't have permissions, it returns with the error below which provides a lot of detail... The default is not decided by easy_install, but is based on the Python distutils configuration - this is part of Python itself. You can use the "--install-dir" or "--prefix" options to re-direct to your own private location, and if you do that you should modify the environment PYTHONPATH to include this so that it's found automatically. I will try to communicate this in the man-page when it's written. There is another project (currently not slated for integration, but would be easy to get using this one) called virtualenv which is very useful for creating a virtual, private, install of python for many uses. > Is there a "system" install where they become available to all users and/or > a private install where they are available only by the user running this? > >> /usr/bin/eazy_install Uncommitted utility to install Egg Modules >> >> /usr/bin/eazy_install-2.4 Uncommitted Python version specific > > Is one a hard|soft link to the other? I assume the versioned one is > to enable providing a newer one alongside in the future. If so don't > you want the unversioned to be Volatile? No they are not linked - they are separate copies. I'm not sure about it being Volatile, the command path should still be Uncommitted, no? The arguments and output are more likely to be Volatile. Am I misinterpreting the purpose of listing the command-path interface as Uncommitted? > > Do you anticipate a future /usr/bin/eazy_install-3.0 (or whichever) to > also ship in SUNWpython-setuptools? > > The version is based on the version of Python it refers and hence installs to. Right now we have Python 2.4, I'm not sure why why 2.5 isn't there, but it's not. So if python 2.5 was distributed, then we would have easy_install-2.5 also. easy_install-2.4 might go away if python 2.4 goes away, I'm not sure how likely it is that we would upgrade to 2.5 and remove 2.4 given the way we have multiple version of Java now, but I guess that would be an ARC decision? Hmm, given the above reasoning, maybe the versioned easy_install- is the one that is more likely to be Volatile, what do people think? Thanks, Darren. ---------------------------------- easy_install error output ------------------ error: can't create or remove files in install directory The following error occurred while trying to add or remove files in the installation directory: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/test-easy-install-17162.write-test' The installation directory you specified (via --install-dir, --prefix, or the distutils default setting) was: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/ Perhaps your account does not have write access to this directory? If the installation directory is a system-owned directory, you may need to sign in as the administrator or "root" account. If you do not have administrative access to this machine, you may wish to choose a different installation directory, preferably one that is listed in your PYTHONPATH environment variable. For information on other options, you may wish to consult the documentation at: http://peak.telecommunity.com/EasyInstall.html Please make the appropriate changes for your system and try again. From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Tue Feb 12 21:09:06 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1D5951U013909 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1D58ieh014454; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:57 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JW500209VMUH200@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:08:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JW5003XWVMTMOC0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m1D58r8g013416; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m1D58rM9013415; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:08:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:08:53 -0800 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/084 - Python Setuptools In-reply-to: <47AC411F.703@Sun.COM> To: Darren Kenny Cc: Jyri Virkki , John Fischer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <20080213050852.GH12197@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47ABA21E.5050302@sun.com> <20080208035429.GU6789@sun.com> <47AC411F.703@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Status: RO Content-Length: 2266 Darren Kenny wrote: > > > Where do these bits end up by default? $HOME, `pwd`, somewhere else? > > By default it will install in /site-packages (in our > case /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages. If you attempt to do this > when you don't have permissions, it returns with the error below > which provides a lot of detail... Thanks, that's what I suspected. I'm not entirely comfortable with these app-specific packaging subsystem (this case is one but Ruby w/rubygems is also looking into the same issue these days) delivering the downloaded content into /usr/... since /usr can be shared and/or read-only. I'm not familiar with Python's eazy_install [aside - in debian I see it's called easy_install, what's the most common version] but Ruby's 'gems' is an equivalent case. Some distros (at least debian, see http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/rubygems.html) set it up to install into /var/ to avoid those problems. Another detail to think about is if there is any interaction between the tool (here eazy_install) -installed libraries vs. copies of possibly the same libraries delivered by Solaris packages in the future (thinking of the Ruby world again, one can install Rails via gem but there are also good arguments for delivering it as a package). Do they both install into the same location under /usr/... and stomp on each other? That'd be a bad answer ;-) The case should at least consider these topics. It'd be even nicer if we can come up with a consistent approach so it can be applied here and for ruby gems as well as other future projects which bundle their own app-specific packaging system. > Hmm, given the above reasoning, maybe the versioned > easy_install- is the one that is more likely to be > Volatile, what do people think? Probably not, because the versioned one is the one that can remain consistent over time. IOW if you have foo-1.0 it can forever be foo-1.0, no matter how incompatible foo-2.0 may end up being in some unpredictable future. But if you have a link 'foo' -> 'foo-1.0', presumably you'd like to be able to change it to point elsewhere in the future so its behavior (i.e. the behavior of what it points to) may change. -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From Darren.Kenny@sun.com Tue Feb 12 23:27:22 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1D7RLAO016753 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1D7RGH3006975 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:27:20 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JW600F0L21I7B00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:27:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JW600CK321FDN10@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1D7RFLi025478 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:27:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JW600D011T7MN00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:27:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.150.121.192] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JW6000DU217IH50@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:27:08 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:26:49 +0000 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/084 - Python Setuptools In-reply-to: <20080213050852.GH12197@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Kenny@sun.com To: Jyri Virkki Cc: John Fischer , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <47B29BB9.8070808@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47ABA21E.5050302@sun.com> <20080208035429.GU6789@sun.com> <47AC411F.703@Sun.COM> <20080213050852.GH12197@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080128) Status: RO Content-Length: 3553 Jyri Virkki wrote: > Darren Kenny wrote: >>> Where do these bits end up by default? $HOME, `pwd`, somewhere else? >> By default it will install in /site-packages (in our >> case /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages. If you attempt to do this >> when you don't have permissions, it returns with the error below >> which provides a lot of detail... > > Thanks, that's what I suspected. > > I'm not entirely comfortable with these app-specific packaging > subsystem (this case is one but Ruby w/rubygems is also looking into > the same issue these days) delivering the downloaded content into /usr/... > since /usr can be shared and/or read-only. Sure, but it can only really install in /usr if the user has such authority to do so, and I think most sys admins are intelligent enough to be aware of issues at this level and take the appropriate action should they prefer not to. Your general "Joe Soap" user will be forced to make a decision on an alternative location that suits their needs. > > I'm not familiar with Python's eazy_install [aside - in debian I see > it's called easy_install, what's the most common version] but Ruby's > 'gems' is an equivalent case. Some distros (at least debian, see > http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/rubygems.html) set it up to > install into /var/ to avoid those problems I figured that this might arise - the package is called "easy_install", with an "s" instead of a "z" - I think that reflects it's origin in the community. If I have made a mistake in my original case then I apologise, I naturally use an s, but have been known to enter "US mode" inserting a z from time to time. If we were to install into var, then Python itself would also need a change to include /var into it's search path for modules. > > Another detail to think about is if there is any interaction between > the tool (here eazy_install) -installed libraries vs. copies of > possibly the same libraries delivered by Solaris packages in the future > (thinking of the Ruby world again, one can install Rails via gem but there > are also good arguments for delivering it as a package). Do they both > install into the same location under /usr/... and stomp on each other? > That'd be a bad answer ;-) No, the packages we deliver install into /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages, while locally installed modules are installed into /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages (similar to how Perl behaves). This was addressed in PSARC/2005/555. > > The case should at least consider these topics. > > It'd be even nicer if we can come up with a consistent approach so it > can be applied here and for ruby gems as well as other future projects > which bundle their own app-specific packaging system. > I'm not familiar with how Ruby Gems installs, so I welcome some advice here on how we could share mechanisms. > > >> Hmm, given the above reasoning, maybe the versioned >> easy_install- is the one that is more likely to be >> Volatile, what do people think? > > Probably not, because the versioned one is the one that can remain > consistent over time. IOW if you have foo-1.0 it can forever be > foo-1.0, no matter how incompatible foo-2.0 may end up being in some > unpredictable future. > > But if you have a link 'foo' -> 'foo-1.0', presumably you'd like to be > able to change it to point elsewhere in the future so its behavior > (i.e. the behavior of what it points to) may change. > OK, so based on this I should make easy_install Volatile, and easy_install-2.4 Uncommitted. Thanks, Darren. From johnf@sac.sfbay.sun.com Fri Feb 15 11:22:38 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1FJMbCI015316 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1FJMZxj001831 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:22:37 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWA00I01OHNPS00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWA00BXQOHN1550@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (new-sac.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.175.65]) by dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1FJMVYY011067; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1FJF21N014950; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:15:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from johnf@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m1FJF2OK014949; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:15:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:15:02 -0800 (PST) From: John Fischer Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/084 - Python Setuptools To: Darren.Kenny@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Cc: Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, John.Fischer@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <200802151915.m1FJF2OK014949@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 140 All, The timer having expired and the proposal modified according to the email discussion I have closed this case approved. Thanks, John