From sacadmin Tue Feb 19 11:29:33 2008 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1JJTX9j024039; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from johnf@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m1JJTXAM024035; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:29:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:29:33 -0800 (PST) From: John Fischer Message-Id: <200802191929.m1JJTXAM024035@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: dermot.mccluskey@sun.com, john.fischer@sun.com Subject: Python Twisted [PSARC/2008/121 FastTrack timeout 02/26/2008] Status: RO Content-Length: 560 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Python Twisted 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Darren Kenny 1.3 Date of This Document: 19 February, 2008 4. Technical Description See the case directory for more detail 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: JDS - Gnome 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From John.Fischer@sun.com Tue Feb 19 11:38:44 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1JJchBq024408 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1JJceI7015470 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00D1B3WJ7Y00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI00C103WJ5I10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1JJcg6P023539 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:38:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWI004013VKK500@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Fischer@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:38:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from 129.145.154.84 ([129.145.154.84]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWI00JCA3W829A0@mail-amer.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:38:32 -0800 From: John Fischer Subject: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: psarc-ext@sun.com Cc: John Fischer , Darren.Kenny@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.301c Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_NTPSvfQ5Cxms5PTddTl4xQ)" X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 6365 --Boundary_(ID_NTPSvfQ5Cxms5PTddTl4xQ) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT PSARC, I am sponsoring this case for Darren Kenny and Dermot McCluskey of the JDS - Gnome team in Dublin, Ireland. I have set the time out for 02/26/2008. The case directory contains this proposal. This project proposes to integrate the Open Source Python project known as Twisted. Twisted implements various network interfaces for the Python environment. This project depends upon a yet to be filed Python Interface known as Zope. It will not integrate until Zope has been reviewed and integrated. The project is requesting a Minor release of Solaris. Thanks, John --Boundary_(ID_NTPSvfQ5Cxms5PTddTl4xQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ASCII; name=proposal.txt Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=proposal.txt Template Version: @(#)onepager.txt 1.35 07/11/07 SMI Copyright 2007 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Python Twisted 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Dermot McCluskey Darren Kenny 1.3. Date of This Document: 02/13/08 1.3.1. Date this project was conceived: 07/08/01 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): 1.4.1. The PAC or CPT you expect to review your project: Solaris PAC 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: PSARC 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: robert.odea@sun.com 1.4.4. The name of your business unit: OPG / OpenSource. 1.5. Email Aliases: 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: leo.binchy@sun.com 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: darren.kenny@sun.com 1.5.3. Marketing Manager: dan.roberts@sun.com 1.5.4. Interest List: desktop-discuss@opensolaris.org 4. Technical Description: 4.1. Details: Twisted is a popular, open-source networking engine written in Python and supporting numerous protocols. It contains a web server, chat clients, chat servers, mail servers, and more. Twisted is made up of a number of related sub-projects. This proposal integrates version 2.5.0 of the "Twisted Sumo" package which includes the following 10 main modules: Twisted Conch SSH and SFTP protocol implementation. Twisted Core Asynchronous event loop. Twisted Lore Documentation generator with HTML and LaTeX support. Twisted Mail SMTP, IMAP and POP protocol implementation. Twisted Names DNS protocol implementation with client and server. Twisted News NNTP protocol implementation with client and server. Twisted Runner Process management, including an inetd server. Twisted Web HTTP protocol implementation with clients and servers. Twisted Words Chat and Instant Messaging. 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): None. 4.3. In Scope: See above. 4.4. Out of Scope: This proposal does not include any Twisted projects which are not included in the Twisted Sumo release (eg trial and unmaintained modules). 4.5. Interfaces: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Exported Stability Comments -------------------------------------------------------------------- SUNWpython-twisted Uncommitted Package name twisted Uncommitted Python module twisted.application Uncommitted Python module twisted.conch Uncommitted Python module twisted.cred Uncommitted Python module twisted.enterprise Uncommitted Python module twisted.internet Uncommitted Python module twisted.lore Uncommitted Python module twisted.mail Uncommitted Python module twisted.manhole Uncommitted Python module twisted.names Uncommitted Python module twisted.news Uncommitted Python module twisted.persisted Uncommitted Python module twisted.plugins Uncommitted Python module twisted.protocols Uncommitted Python module twisted.python Uncommitted Python module twisted.runner Uncommitted Python module twisted.scripts Uncommitted Python module twisted.spread Uncommitted Python module twisted.tap Uncommitted Python module twisted.test Uncommitted Python module twisted.trial Uncommitted Python module twisted.web Uncommitted Python module twisted.words Uncommitted Python module twisted demos Not an Installed in Interface demo/twisted -------------------------------------------------------------------- Imported Stability Comments -------------------------------------------------------------------- Python 2.4.x External zope-interface Uncommitted To be added in a forthcoming proposal 4.6. Doc Impact: A manpage will be provided that links to the online documentation. 4.7. Admin/Config Impact: None. 4.8. HA Impact: None. 4.9. I18N/L10N Impact: None. Twisted is not internationalized. 4.10. Packaging & Delivery: Adds new package, SUNWpython-twisted, approx 14 MB. Package will go into SUNWCall, SUNWCXall and SUNWCprog clusters. 4.11. Security Impact: These libraries provide an infrastructure for network protocol handling in Python - issues w.r.t. security will be primarily addressed by the originating community and brought into Solaris as soon as possible. Also, while it is possible to use OpenSSL to encypt the network traffic, that facility is not available because the Python OpenSSL module is not currently available on Solaris, but should it be provided or installed Twisted will immediately be able to use it. 4.12. Dependencies: Twisted depends on the Python Zope Interface, version 3.0.1 or higher. This will be proposed in a separate ARC case shortly. 5. Reference Documents: Python Twisted Home Page, http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ PSARC 2005/532, Python migration from /usr/sfw to /usr and upgrade to v2.4.x --Boundary_(ID_NTPSvfQ5Cxms5PTddTl4xQ)-- From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Tue Feb 19 17:19:58 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K1JvTF010901 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:19:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K1Jnpn008462; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:19:54 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI0010HJP3Z800@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI00JTEJP28V80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m1K1Jo5t012359; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m1K1JowI012358; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:19:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:19:50 -0800 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> To: John Fischer Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, Darren.Kenny@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Status: RO Content-Length: 411 John Fischer wrote: > > 4.5. Interfaces: > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Exported Stability Comments > -------------------------------------------------------------------- As with PSARC/2008/122, it'd be good to document what exactly is delivered onto the filesystem and where. -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From dduvall@zruty.sfbay.sun.com Tue Feb 19 17:40:23 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K1eM2V011042 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K1eEL0027491; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:40:16 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00301KN32V00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.168.40]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI00JVWKN296A0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:40:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1K1eEd0017674; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:40:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dduvall@localhost) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m1K1eEl2017673; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:40:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:40:14 -0800 From: Danek Duvall Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> To: Jyri Virkki Cc: John Fischer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Darren.Kenny@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <20080220014014.GK1369@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-27) Status: RO Content-Length: 865 On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 05:19:50PM -0800, Jyri Virkki wrote: > John Fischer wrote: > > > > 4.5. Interfaces: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Exported Stability Comments > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > As with PSARC/2008/122, it'd be good to document what exactly is > delivered onto the filesystem and where. Why? Are the pathnames interfaces? Presumably if they didn't go in the standard location such that "import " didn't just work where "" was one of the names in the exported interface table, then the case would have let us know the non-standard location. Otherwise, it's merely a side-effect of having imported the Python case that says everything we publish goes in /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages. Danek From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Tue Feb 19 17:58:01 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K1w0aY011545 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K1vjvb003507; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:57:52 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00801LGE2I00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI005QGLGEB810@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m1K1vn8p012542; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:57:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m1K1vncN012541; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:57:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:57:49 -0800 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <20080220014014.GK1369@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> To: Danek Duvall Cc: Jyri Virkki , John Fischer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Darren.Kenny@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <20080220015749.GX11415@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> <20080220014014.GK1369@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Status: RO Content-Length: 412 Danek Duvall wrote: > > > As with PSARC/2008/122, it'd be good to document what exactly is > > delivered onto the filesystem and where. > > Why? Because if the answer is they're being dropped into /etc/security/, I'm going to complain. (Not that I expected that to be the answer, but I don't like making assumptions while reading specifications.) -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From gww@eng.sun.com Tue Feb 19 18:28:07 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K2S7cZ013877 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K2S59X007614 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00M05MUUBH00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI008MBMUT4DD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:28:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K2S2Iu047259; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m1K2SNJr017915; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:28:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m1K2SNxL017914; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:28:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted To: Danek.Duvall@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, darren.kenny@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com Message-id: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 Status: RO Content-Length: 359 > > Why? > > Because if the answer is they're being dropped into /etc/security/, > I'm going to complain. > > (Not that I expected that to be the answer, but I don't like making > assumptions while reading specifications.) And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. Gary.. From dduvall@zruty.sfbay.sun.com Tue Feb 19 18:56:54 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K2ur47014843 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K2un4B010865; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:56:50 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00E03O6OG200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.168.40]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI0053DO6MB450@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1K2ukxv018510; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dduvall@localhost) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m1K2ukQT018509; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:56:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:56:46 -0800 From: Danek Duvall Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> To: Gary Winiger Cc: Jyri.Virkki@sun.com, John.Fischer@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, darren.kenny@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com Message-id: <20080220025646.GL1369@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-27) Status: RO Content-Length: 1444 On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 06:28:23PM -0800, Gary Winiger wrote: > > > Why? > > > > Because if the answer is they're being dropped into /etc/security/, > > I'm going to complain. > > > > (Not that I expected that to be the answer, but I don't like making > > assumptions while reading specifications.) > > And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files > need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. Hello! Please unstrap the jet-engine from this tangent! Jyri's hand-wave example has nothing to do with this case. Lots of people get upset, and rightly so, by the ARCs dragging discussions off into directions completely unrelated to the project at hand, often based on wild speculation or offhand comments. Let's not do that more than we're forced to. The case specifies the actual interfaces exported by the project. If they went anywhere other than somewhere under /usr/lib/python2.4, they'd be unusable without special care, which I would hope would be mentioned in the case materials. In general, that has to be the case, or we'd ask every project team to give us a complete dump of all the interfaces they used, interesting or otherwise, and that's far more than we need, unless we have reason not to trust the project team. It probably would be worthwhile to suggest that all cases delivering Python modules as Public interfaces should import PSARC/2005/555, which they should be doing. Danek From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Tue Feb 19 19:16:45 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K3GjF1014971 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K3GhlS017325; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:16:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00301P3V6X00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI008B8P3U4OF0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m1K3GgYT012782; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m1K3Ggx1012781; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:16:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:16:42 -0800 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> To: Gary Winiger Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, Darren.Kenny@sun.com Message-id: <20080220031642.GB11415@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Status: RO Content-Length: 637 Gary Winiger wrote: > > > (Not that I expected that to be the answer, but I don't like making > > assumptions while reading specifications.) > > And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files > need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. /me thinks Gary has a script that beeps if /etc/security is mentioned.. ;-) That was a made-up location reference, meant as an unlikely and nonsensical destination for python libraries, to highlight the point that it's not good to have to assume where things go. It's not part of this case in any way. -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From jek3@sun.com Tue Feb 19 19:37:01 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K3b0QX015292 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K3aprV007796; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:36:52 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00805Q1FS800@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI008A6Q1ELE00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.150.12.37] (vpn-129-150-12-37.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.37]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1K3anZl975167; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:36:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:34:58 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <20080220025646.GL1369@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> To: Danek Duvall Cc: Gary Winiger , Jyri.Virkki@sun.com, John.Fischer@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, darren.kenny@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com Message-id: <47BB9FE2.4060203@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <20080220025646.GL1369@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 2544 Danek Duvall wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 06:28:23PM -0800, Gary Winiger wrote: > > >>>> Why? >>>> >>> Because if the answer is they're being dropped into /etc/security/, >>> I'm going to complain. >>> >>> (Not that I expected that to be the answer, but I don't like making >>> assumptions while reading specifications.) >>> >> And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files >> need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. >> > > Hello! Please unstrap the jet-engine from this tangent! Jyri's hand-wave > example has nothing to do with this case. Lots of people get upset, and > rightly so, by the ARCs dragging discussions off into directions completely > unrelated to the project at hand, often based on wild speculation or > offhand comments. Let's not do that more than we're forced to. > > The case specifies the actual interfaces exported by the project. If they > went anywhere other than somewhere under /usr/lib/python2.4, they'd be > unusable without special care, which I would hope would be mentioned in the > case materials. In general, that has to be the case, or we'd ask every > project team to give us a complete dump of all the interfaces they used, > interesting or otherwise, and that's far more than we need, unless we have > reason not to trust the project team. > > It probably would be worthwhile to suggest that all cases delivering Python > modules as Public interfaces should import PSARC/2005/555, which they > should be doing. > > Danek > And now for another view... DISCLAIMER: I'm not sure this is the right example. If the right way to integrate Python Twisted is to make it interact with SFM or Rbac or whatever, then that integration needs to use those facilities. These are the facilities that are (warning: pun approaching) the secret sauce that distinguishes Solaris from the great hoard of Linux Distros (remember Linux only the kernel). Gary said "we should question every addition to /etc/*". That may be a bit of a strong statement, but apply `sed -e "s/question/understand/g" and I be more than comfortable with the statement. All the free software should be modified to use any facilities where using that facility is the "right thing"(tm). Its not just about saying "configure; make; putback". From the materials, I'm not sure I can tell if Python Twisted should be using Solaris databases/facilities. Perhaps we should move this to "waiting needs spec" until those questions can be answered. - jek3 - jek3 From David.Comay@sun.com Tue Feb 19 21:05:40 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K55dId017519 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K55Z92008407 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:05:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWI00D09U5D6H00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:05:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWI008FSU5DLH60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:05:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from izimbra.SFBay.Sun.COM (izimbra.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.141]) by dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K55Y5T038374; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:05:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by izimbra.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1K55YSP021578; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:05:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:05:34 -0800 (PST) From: David.Comay@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> Sender: David.Comay@sun.com To: Gary Winiger Cc: Danek.Duvall@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com, John.Fischer@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, darren.kenny@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1144 Gary, > And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files > need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. I can certain appreciate the policy with respect to the bits of software that are represent of core part of Solaris but I don't agree it should apply generally with the large number of FOSS components that are being merely aggregated from upstream communities. It's important that the familiarity of these components across multiple OS platforms be maintained in *most* cases. There are, of course, exceptions here - putting executables in /etc seems wrong in all cases - but for the most part, I don't see an issue with new components delivering files under /etc unless they're interfering with other components (/etc/security might fall into this case but that didn't apply with this particular case.) I do agree with Jyri that it would be helpful to note the pathnames of the files being dropped into the file system even if they're not interfaces themselves. Even just a sentence that says the project consists of Python files delivered in the standard /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages helps. dsc From kmcdonald@egenera.com Tue Feb 19 23:23:22 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K7NMb7020129 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:23:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K7NJ6I000048; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00J030IUZW00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ006TH0IU3E50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay12i.sun.com (ip122.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.122]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1K7F2q5007079; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:23:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp11es.sun.com ([160.41.209.21] [160.41.209.21]) by relay12i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-258029; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:23:18 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (relay11i.sun.com [129.179.4.121]) by mmp11es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6498826; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:23:17 +0000 (Z) Received: from webaccess.egenera.com ([63.139.209.15] [63.139.209.15]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1759107; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:23:17 +0000 (Z) Received: from [10.50.0.78] ([10.50.0.78]) by webaccess.egenera.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:23:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:23:45 -0500 From: Kyle McDonald Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: To: David.Comay@sun.com Cc: Gary Winiger , John.Fischer@sun.com, darren.kenny@sun.com, Danek.Duvall@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.057sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2008 07:23:50.0042 (UTC) FILETIME=[89DC2FA0:01C87391] Status: RO Content-Length: 1488 David.Comay@sun.com wrote: > Gary, > > >> And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files >> need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. >> > > I can certain appreciate the policy with respect to the bits of > software that are represent of core part of Solaris but I don't agree > it should apply generally with the large number of FOSS components that > are being merely aggregated from upstream communities. It's important > that the familiarity of these components across multiple OS platforms > be maintained in *most* cases. There are, of course, exceptions here - > putting executables in /etc seems wrong in all cases - but for the most > part, I don't see an issue with new components delivering files under > /etc unless they're interfering with other components (/etc/security > might fall into this case but that didn't apply with this particular > case.) > I'm not sure I'd agree. While for things in home directories might need this to enable homedirs to be shared between more than one platform, I don't think the same applies to things local to the system. Personally, I'd like to see these things put through the Sun/Solaris engineering thought process. Too often in the OSS world things get done without much consideration to how they fit into the larger scheme of things. I'd hate to think we just pulling this stuff in without giving it the same consideration we give to things that originate in Solaris. -Kyle From David.Comay@sun.com Tue Feb 19 23:50:16 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1K7oF2k020244 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K7o6NU015062 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:50:14 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00L1L1RO6B00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ00IO11RNVK50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from izimbra.SFBay.Sun.COM (izimbra.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.141]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1K7o8O5040185; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by izimbra.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1K7o88k021686; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:50:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:50:07 -0800 (PST) From: David.Comay@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> Sender: David.Comay@sun.com To: Kyle McDonald Cc: Gary Winiger , John.Fischer@sun.com, darren.kenny@sun.com, Danek.Duvall@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 1449 > Personally, I'd like to see these things put through the Sun/Solaris > engineering thought process. Too often in the OSS world things get done > without much consideration to how they fit into the larger scheme of things. > I'd hate to think we just pulling this stuff in without giving it the same > consideration we give to things that originate in Solaris. I think it's a good idea to always apply good engineering judgement here and definitely seeing how a particular component integrates with OpenSolaris is important. However, if we needlessly change expected interfaces with an eye towards "improving" them, we risk being incompatible with the way the rest of the world interacts with that component. The end result is likely many potential users not being able to make the adjustment/transition to using that component on an OpenSolaris-based platform. I'm not arguing for a blanket waiver here but just to apply good common sense. If a new service was being proposed that delivered a start-up script under /etc/rcS.d, I would say requiring a smf(5) service manifest would be a good start. However, if that service included a well-known configuration file with its own rich syntax, I certainly would not recommend to the project team that they embed the configuration details as service properties. Or "hide" the configuration file in an unexpected place on the file system if /etc was where everyone else stored the file. dsc From Darren.Kenny@sun.com Wed Feb 20 03:48:08 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KBm7jP027154 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:48:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KBlro3022419 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:48:06 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00L0FCS3XQ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ009R3CRYKUB0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1KBlvVL006279 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWJ00301CEK6Z00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.150.121.192] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWJ009D5CREKM10@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:39 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:20 +0000 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> Sender: Darren.Kenny@sun.com To: Kyle McDonald Cc: David.Comay@sun.com, Gary Winiger , John.Fischer@sun.com, Danek.Duvall@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080128) Status: RO Content-Length: 2785 Kyle McDonald wrote: > David.Comay@sun.com wrote: >> Gary, >> >> >>> And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files >>> need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. >>> >> I can certain appreciate the policy with respect to the bits of >> software that are represent of core part of Solaris but I don't agree >> it should apply generally with the large number of FOSS components that >> are being merely aggregated from upstream communities. It's important >> that the familiarity of these components across multiple OS platforms >> be maintained in *most* cases. There are, of course, exceptions here - >> putting executables in /etc seems wrong in all cases - but for the most >> part, I don't see an issue with new components delivering files under >> /etc unless they're interfering with other components (/etc/security >> might fall into this case but that didn't apply with this particular >> case.) >> > I'm not sure I'd agree. > > While for things in home directories might need this to enable homedirs > to be shared between more than one platform, I don't think the same > applies to things local to the system. > > Personally, I'd like to see these things put through the Sun/Solaris > engineering thought process. Too often in the OSS world things get done > without much consideration to how they fit into the larger scheme of > things. I'd hate to think we just pulling this stuff in without giving > it the same consideration we give to things that originate in Solaris. > > -Kyle > I feel that we're digressing here, and moving away from the main topic, but I just can't help providing my *personal opinion* here: I personally feel that this is where there is the need for unstable/experimental package repositories (similar to blastwave, but where it's located on opensolaris.org) so that such OSS s/w can be available without being in the core of OpenSolaris/Solaris - sometimes we just want to make something available to users (developers) rather than have full integration. Over time, if there is sufficient interest (through measuring installs of the packages or requests from customers) in bringing this into Solaris then we can pursue the effort of stabilising things and doing the full Solaris/Sun engineering thought process. I also feel that if things are made available in their unstable/experimental form - and easily installable, a strength if IPS - then it's easier for people to find and contribute to making it more Solaris friendly early on by "scratching that itch" of theirs. Unfortunately we tend to pick up on things from the FOSS communities late in their development cycle when it's late to influence sufficiently to be able to have good integration into Solaris. Thanks, Darren. From Darren.Kenny@sun.com Wed Feb 20 03:52:32 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KBqVMP027186 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KBqUlt024051 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:30 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00101CZI4M00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ00KWICZGLAC0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1KBqSa4007026 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWJ00301CEK6Z00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Kenny@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.150.121.192] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWJ009I1CZEKM30@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:28 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:08 +0000 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Kenny@sun.com To: Jyri Virkki Cc: John Fischer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <47BC1468.6070800@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080128) Status: RO Content-Length: 965 Hi Jyri, I'm not really sure that you want all the files - the nature of Python modules is to use lots of .py files and sub-dirs as packages/sub-packages. In this case there are quite a lot of small files. All Python modules should be delivered in to /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages. Is it not acceptable to simply provide the Python interfaces (as opposed to all the files) since this is what a Python programmer will care about, and quote the arc case (as I've done) that made the proposal to place all files in vendor-packages when delivered from Sun? Thanks, Darren, Jyri Virkki wrote: > John Fischer wrote: >> 4.5. Interfaces: >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Exported Stability Comments >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > As with PSARC/2008/122, it'd be good to document what exactly is > delivered onto the filesystem and where. > > From shivakumar.gn@gmail.com Wed Feb 20 05:02:35 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KD2ZEj029858 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:02:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KD2Yhj001216 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:02:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ003GUG8BMR00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ003RZFU12T10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1KCLpjR023780 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:53:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-879850 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:53:57 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com (relay44i.sun.com [192.5.209.118]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-144072 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:53:57 +0000 (Z) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.179] [64.233.166.179]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-15553039 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:53:57 +0000 (Z) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so3246260pyb.5 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.126.14 with SMTP id y14mr5687910rvc.59.1203512036683; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.144.10 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:53:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:23:56 +0530 From: S h i v Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> To: Darren Kenny , Kyle McDonald , John.Fischer@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Gary Winiger , Danek.Duvall@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <319ee2b10802200453y3a399b4dp3d844230cc00a773@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=XZtkoYW+QTHYnBnbRo3uLVgWIfRgC334cMkNyzthv/U=; b=tMdjX6er6Juvs1SHJLjBGPLwEKArtmI5ladhMFnr4uh2HuiOTG+nvQLB2DLrBQNttB4fO5z+Sq5kIeqtbtixuO4ylExy2lvCqpy8Y4SjS83diHyw6+m5o/myZ6v1lDXkPH6A+B/JUJgKzdv0GNDeQnqMvOMVcw7KG14MvoItMnU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=R9mdOQDL83I8OqZV5kpuRGrNadww/exjZOWdaQznkwMfbV+ZbmuO+h7x/Qm+OfE1Udx6ZgrJZ8fDhVBr6BLBehpfkiSrPVT35tqDm2hCu2k7T5pnKTXyzVo7I9Gx+WAW/YCmUON9kzd3ECvmQmD+3D6YgjW0jQ/kRC1J+TKzZWo= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.070sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 1307 On Feb 20, 2008 5:17 PM, Darren Kenny wrote: > > > I feel that we're digressing here, and moving away from the main topic, but I > just can't help providing my *personal opinion* here: > > I personally feel that this is where there is the need for unstable/experimental > package repositories (similar to blastwave, but where it's located on > opensolaris.org) so that such OSS s/w can be available without being in the core > of OpenSolaris/Solaris - sometimes we just want to make something available to > users (developers) rather than have full integration. > > Over time, if there is sufficient interest (through measuring installs of the > packages or requests from customers) in bringing this into Solaris then we can > pursue the effort of stabilising things and doing the full Solaris/Sun > engineering thought process. > Not sure if it is appropriate for me to comment here. I would agree to this and would like to point people to the *very successful* MOTU process of ubuntu. MOTU (Masters Of The Universe) are the volunteers who maintain the universe and multiverse components of ubuntu repository. The "Main" and "Restricted" are components are maintained with support for security fixes. This approach adds tremendous value to ubuntu as a distro. regards Shiv From John.Plocher@sun.com Wed Feb 20 06:39:19 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KEdIRG002792 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KEd9jr001672 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:39:17 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00D09KPG4P00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ003HVKPEVE80@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1KEdE7D011130 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWJ00J01KNFQD00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWJ002NDKPCJ4E0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:12 -0800 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Darren Kenny Cc: Kyle McDonald , psarc-ext@sun.com, Gary Winiger , Danek.Duvall@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com, John Fischer Message-id: <47BC3B90.1040305@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) Status: RO Content-Length: 181 Darren Kenny wrote: > I personally feel that this is where there is the need for unstable/experimental > package repositories +1,000,000 for all of Darren's reasons. -John From brian.utterback@sun.com Wed Feb 20 06:39:48 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KEdmFw002820 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KEdmW0012811 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00G27KQBIA00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-east-01.east.sun.com ([129.148.9.192]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ001RUKQAYF80@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.148.226.18] (sr1-unsh01-06.East.Sun.COM [129.148.226.18]) by dm-east-01.east.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KEdeVV005399; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:39:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:39:40 -0500 From: Brian Utterback Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> To: Darren Kenny Cc: Kyle McDonald , David.Comay@sun.com, Gary Winiger , John.Fischer@sun.com, Danek.Duvall@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BC3BAC.1010307@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.13pre (X11/20080218) Status: RO Content-Length: 1385 Darren Kenny wrote: > I feel that we're digressing here, and moving away from the main topic, but I > just can't help providing my *personal opinion* here: > > I personally feel that this is where there is the need for unstable/experimental > package repositories (similar to blastwave, but where it's located on > opensolaris.org) so that such OSS s/w can be available without being in the core > of OpenSolaris/Solaris - sometimes we just want to make something available to > users (developers) rather than have full integration. > I have said the same thing for years. It is just amazing to me that repositories like Blastwave and Sunfreeware need to exist. It is certainly a tribute to their respective creators that they ran with the ball when we dropped it. However, they each have issues that make them sub-optimal. We need to have a Sun supported repository that provides all of these packages with versions for each OS release, including appropriate facilities to denote support levels per package and licensing required. With IPS, it looks like we are finally starting on the road towards sanity. -- blu There are two rules in life: Rule 1- Don't tell people everything you know ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Utterback - Solaris RPE, Sun Microsystems, Inc. Ph:877-259-7345, Em:brian.utterback-at-ess-you-enn-dot-kom From kmcdonald@egenera.com Wed Feb 20 06:47:39 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KElc61002984 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KElHT3005686; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:34 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00I1NL38UB00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ00GB4L36W930@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (ip123.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.123]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1KElULW006644; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp11es.sun.com ([160.41.209.21] [160.41.209.21]) by relay13i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-278332; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:30 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp11es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6832731; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:29 +0000 (Z) Received: from webaccess.egenera.com ([63.139.209.15] [63.139.209.15]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3141738; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:29 +0000 (Z) Received: from [192.168.101.160] ([68.186.254.93]) by webaccess.egenera.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:48:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:47:53 -0500 From: Kyle McDonald Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> To: Darren Kenny Cc: David.Comay@sun.com, Gary Winiger , John.Fischer@sun.com, Danek.Duvall@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BC3D99.8020809@Egenera.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.102sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2008 14:48:01.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[978E2980:01C873CF] Status: RO Content-Length: 3693 Darren Kenny wrote: > Kyle McDonald wrote: > >> David.Comay@sun.com wrote: >> >>> Gary, >>> >>> >>> >>>> And we should question every addition to /etc/*. New /etc/* files >>>> need justification as specified in the ARC SMF policy. >>>> >>>> >>> I can certain appreciate the policy with respect to the bits of >>> software that are represent of core part of Solaris but I don't agree >>> it should apply generally with the large number of FOSS components that >>> are being merely aggregated from upstream communities. It's important >>> that the familiarity of these components across multiple OS platforms >>> be maintained in *most* cases. There are, of course, exceptions here - >>> putting executables in /etc seems wrong in all cases - but for the most >>> part, I don't see an issue with new components delivering files under >>> /etc unless they're interfering with other components (/etc/security >>> might fall into this case but that didn't apply with this particular >>> case.) >>> >>> >> I'm not sure I'd agree. >> >> While for things in home directories might need this to enable homedirs >> to be shared between more than one platform, I don't think the same >> applies to things local to the system. >> >> Personally, I'd like to see these things put through the Sun/Solaris >> engineering thought process. Too often in the OSS world things get done >> without much consideration to how they fit into the larger scheme of >> things. I'd hate to think we just pulling this stuff in without giving >> it the same consideration we give to things that originate in Solaris. >> >> -Kyle >> >> > > I feel that we're digressing here, and moving away from the main topic, but I > just can't help providing my *personal opinion* here: > > I personally feel that this is where there is the need for unstable/experimental package repositories (similar to blastwave, but where it's located on opensolaris.org) so that such OSS s/w can be available without being in the core of OpenSolaris/Solaris - sometimes we just want to make something available to users (developers) rather than have full integration. > > Over time, if there is sufficient interest (through measuring installs of the > packages or requests from customers) in bringing this into Solaris then we can > pursue the effort of stabilising things and doing the full Solaris/Sun > engineering thought process. > > I can definitely aggree that this is an ideal solution. I can't think of anything else that might have the same 'best of both worlds' comprimise. IPS seems to hold more an more promise everyday. I can't wait to see it in main stream Solaris. > Unfortunately we tend to pick up on things from the FOSS communities late in > their development cycle when it's late to influence sufficiently to be able to > have good integration into Solaris. > > I know its somewhat of a chicken and egg problem. It's hard to know what FOSS will be in demeand till it's more well known and in use, but by then it's harder to make changes. Still in the interest of improving things, I'd like to see us not consider things the FOSS world does as untouchable. Especially when it comes to enabling muilti architecture, multi OS home directories and installs. It's weird. Pre linux GNU software used to have some mechanism for combining platform indepentdant files, and separating platfor specific files (I'm thinking of emacs here mainly, but perl might have also had something for this.) It seesm like since the linux explosion, that consideration has gone out the window. But as you said. We digress too much. :) -Kyle > Thanks, > > Darren. > From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Feb 20 06:59:18 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KExHCo003327 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KExGF9010684 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:59:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00J0DLMR7700@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ00GYNLMPW230@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:59:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1KExD5Z010457 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:59:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWJ00C01K52JA00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:59:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.0.231.192] (sxeuwww2.eu.sun.com [192.18.3.4]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWJ00I46LMGTF20@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:59:07 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:59:04 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC3BAC.1010307@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Brian Utterback Cc: Darren Kenny , John.Fischer@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Gary Winiger , Danek.Duvall@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Kyle McDonald , Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BC4038.2000604@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> <47BC3BAC.1010307@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071105) Status: RO Content-Length: 1446 Brian Utterback wrote: > > Darren Kenny wrote: > >> I feel that we're digressing here, and moving away from the main topic, but I >> just can't help providing my *personal opinion* here: >> >> I personally feel that this is where there is the need for unstable/experimental >> package repositories (similar to blastwave, but where it's located on >> opensolaris.org) so that such OSS s/w can be available without being in the core >> of OpenSolaris/Solaris - sometimes we just want to make something available to >> users (developers) rather than have full integration. >> > > I have said the same thing for years. It is just amazing to me that > repositories like Blastwave and Sunfreeware need to exist. It is > certainly a tribute to their respective creators that they ran with > the ball when we dropped it. However, they each have issues that make > them sub-optimal. We need to have a Sun supported repository that > provides all of these packages with versions for each OS release, > including appropriate facilities to denote support levels per package > and licensing required. Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take these discussions OFF the current project review. psarc-ext@sun.com with a case number in the subject is for review of that case NOT for discussion of the ARC in general or semi related off topic threads. This is clearly documented on the ARC community page what the appropriate alias use is. -- Darren J Moffat From John.Plocher@sun.com Wed Feb 20 07:30:09 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KFU9G0003717 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:30:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KFTxq0025289 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:30:07 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00K0RN258P00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ00GQZN22W450@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1KFU2FD014410 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWJ00I01MZN8600@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWJ00193N1MLVF0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:29:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:29:46 -0800 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC3BAC.1010307@sun.com> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Brian Utterback Cc: Darren Kenny , John.Fischer@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Gary Winiger , Danek.Duvall@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Kyle McDonald , Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BC476A.1070603@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> <47BC3BAC.1010307@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) Status: RO Content-Length: 663 Brian Utterback wrote: > We need to have a Sun supported repository that > provides all of these packages with versions for each OS release, While this may also be good, I *really* feel strongly that we need a "wild west free for all" test repository where anyone can upload packages. Without any ARC review. Without any approval by some CG. Without any expectation of stability, reuse or upkeep. Easy. Easier than easy. How else will we be able to experiment and learn what we can do with this new repository technology, packages and the like? Of course, we need other, more stable/supported/trustable repos as well, but in addition to this. -John From bart.smaalders@sun.com Wed Feb 20 07:59:35 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KFxZ1L004337 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:59:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KFxT9g007534; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:59:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ00I1VOF5RV00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:59:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from zion.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.75]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ00GDLOF2P620@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:59:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.228.109]) by zion.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1KFxPEk172248; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:59:25 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:04:20 -0800 From: Bart Smaalders Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC1468.6070800@Sun.COM> To: Darren Kenny Cc: Jyri Virkki , John Fischer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <47BC4F84.3030901@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> <47BC1468.6070800@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1122 Darren Kenny wrote: > Hi Jyri, > > I'm not really sure that you want all the files - the nature of Python modules > is to use lots of .py files and sub-dirs as packages/sub-packages. > > In this case there are quite a lot of small files. > > All Python modules should be delivered in to /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages. > > Is it not acceptable to simply provide the Python interfaces (as opposed to all > the files) since this is what a Python programmer will care about, and quote the > arc case (as I've done) that made the proposal to place all files in > vendor-packages when delivered from Sun? > This is all that is required. Your project adheres to the previous ARC cases relevant to this project, and should either state the above or note the previous cases which it is following. Something like "This project delivers its python files under /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages, its man pages under /usr/share/man and ... " - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts "You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird". From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Wed Feb 20 09:45:18 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KHjHIN009550 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KHj6uW008535; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:45:10 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWJ0091PTB55500@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWJ001JQTB4ONA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m1KHj4Ks015067; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m1KHj4x2015066; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:04 -0800 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC1468.6070800@Sun.COM> To: Darren Kenny Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Message-id: <20080220174504.GL13612@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> <20080220011950.GW11415@sun.com> <47BC1468.6070800@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Status: RO Content-Length: 1582 Darren Kenny wrote: > > Hi Jyri, > > I'm not really sure that you want all the files - the nature of > Python modules is to use lots of .py files and sub-dirs as > packages/sub-packages. No need.. > In this case there are quite a lot of small files. > > All Python modules should be delivered in to > /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages. > > Is it not acceptable to simply provide the Python interfaces (as > opposed to all the files) since this is what a Python programmer > will care about, and quote the arc case (as I've done) that made the > proposal to place all files in vendor-packages when delivered from > Sun? To be concrete, here's the diff I was suggesting to proposal.txt: (1) mention the location (I added it to 4.10 but could be elsewhere) and (2) reference the ARC case which established the location: --- proposal.txt.~1~ Wed Feb 20 09:34:26 2008 +++ proposal.txt Wed Feb 20 09:39:06 2008 @@ -149,6 +149,10 @@ Adds new package, SUNWpython-twisted, approx 14 MB. Package will go into SUNWCall, SUNWCXall and SUNWCprog clusters. + All the files delivered by this project will be delivered under the + standard (refer to PSARC/2005/555) /usr/lib/python2.4/vendor-packages/ + location. + 4.11. Security Impact: These libraries provide an infrastructure for network protocol handling in @@ -173,3 +177,4 @@ PSARC 2005/532, Python migration from /usr/sfw to /usr and upgrade to v2.4.x + PSARC 2005/555, Python "vendor-packages" support -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From jek3@sun.com Wed Feb 20 12:55:42 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KKtfig002004 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KKtY6p020717; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:55:38 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWK00H0F24NNR00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWK0093724K4MB0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:55:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.150.12.37] (vpn-129-150-12-37.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.37]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1KKtV3g180804; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:55:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:53:37 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: To: David.Comay@sun.com Cc: Kyle McDonald , Gary Winiger , John.Fischer@sun.com, darren.kenny@sun.com, Danek.Duvall@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BC9351.5030402@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1053 David.Comay@Sun.COM wrote: >> Personally, I'd like to see these things put through the Sun/Solaris >> engineering thought process. Too often in the OSS world things get >> done without much consideration to how they fit into the larger >> scheme of things. I'd hate to think we just pulling this stuff in >> without giving it the same consideration we give to things that >> originate in Solaris. > > I think it's a good idea to always apply good engineering judgement > here and definitely seeing how a particular component integrates with > OpenSolaris is important. However, if we needlessly change expected > interfaces with an eye towards "improving" them, we risk being > incompatible with the way the rest of the world interacts with that > component. The end result is likely many potential users not being > able to make the adjustment/transition to using that component on an > OpenSolaris-based platform. We also take the risk of being better, than just "me too". I understand that there is a balancing act here. Later.... - jek3 From jek3@sun.com Wed Feb 20 12:59:45 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1KKxivY002368 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1KKxWVn025048; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:59:36 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWK009032BBD200@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:59:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWK002A62BACHB0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:59:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.150.12.37] (vpn-129-150-12-37.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.37]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1KKxXWO181530; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:59:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:57:40 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> To: Darren Kenny Cc: Kyle McDonald , David.Comay@sun.com, Gary Winiger , John.Fischer@sun.com, Danek.Duvall@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Dermot.McCluskey@sun.com, Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <47BC9444.4090707@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <200802200228.m1K2SNxL017914@marduk.eng.sun.com> <47BBD581.9030106@Egenera.COM> <47BC1348.1010107@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1499 Darren Kenny wrote: > I feel that we're digressing here, and moving away from the main topic, but I > just can't help providing my *personal opinion* here: > > I personally feel that this is where there is the need for unstable/experimental > package repositories (similar to blastwave, but where it's located on > opensolaris.org) so that such OSS s/w can be available without being in the core > of OpenSolaris/Solaris - sometimes we just want to make something available to > users (developers) rather than have full integration. > > Over time, if there is sufficient interest (through measuring installs of the > packages or requests from customers) in bringing this into Solaris then we can > pursue the effort of stabilising things and doing the full Solaris/Sun > engineering thought process. > > I also feel that if things are made available in their unstable/experimental > form - and easily installable, a strength if IPS - then it's easier for people > to find and contribute to making it more Solaris friendly early on by > "scratching that itch" of theirs. > > Unfortunately we tend to pick up on things from the FOSS communities late in > their development cycle when it's late to influence sufficiently to be able to > have good integration into Solaris. > > Thanks, > > Darren. > I couldn't agree more. Really! Ubuntu (and others) have figured this out. We seem to be running to catch the last train that has already left, rather than working toward the next one. - jek3 From John.Fischer@sun.com Wed Feb 20 16:26:44 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1L0QhaX018250 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1L0QW2T018285 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:26:42 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWK0000BBWFEY00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWK00GCFBWEFZ50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1L0QcTU010442 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:26:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWK00501AF8OS00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from John.Fischer@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from 129.145.154.84 ([129.145.154.84]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWK00MTYBW9EZ40@mail-amer.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:26:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:26:33 -0800 From: John Fischer Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/121 - Python Twisted In-reply-to: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: psarc-ext@sun.com Cc: John Fischer , Darren.Kenny@sun.com, Dermot McCluskey Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <1203553592.63061.305.camel@sr1-umpk-34> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.301c Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <1203449911.63061.18.camel@sr1-umpk-34> Status: RO Content-Length: 756 Darren and Dermot, This case was approved during PSARC's open business today. Thanks, John On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 11:38, John Fischer wrote: > PSARC, > > I am sponsoring this case for Darren Kenny and Dermot > McCluskey of the JDS - Gnome team in Dublin, Ireland. > I have set the time out for 02/26/2008. The case > directory contains this proposal. > > This project proposes to integrate the Open Source > Python project known as Twisted. Twisted implements > various network interfaces for the Python environment. > This project depends upon a yet to be filed Python > Interface known as Zope. It will not integrate until > Zope has been reviewed and integrated. The project is > requesting a Minor release of Solaris. > > Thanks, > > John