From sacadmin Thu Feb 21 06:46:56 2008 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LEkudE011851; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from petede@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m1LEkugD011847; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:46:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:46:56 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Dennis Message-Id: <200802211446.m1LEkugD011847@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] Status: RO Content-Length: 8753 I am sponsoring this FastTrack for Maxim Kartashev. Mans pages are included in the case's materials directory. Thanks pete 1. Introduction This project proposes to add the source code management (SCM) system CVS[1] to the SFW consolidation for delivery on OpenSolaris/Indiana. Since CVS is externally maintained open source software, the SFW consolidation is a natural choice. This project requests a Minor release binding. 2. Background and motivation One of Indiana's (a.k.a OpenSolaris Developer Preview)[2] targets is to support software development on Solaris OS. The latter almost always requires use of SCM. CVS is an open-source version control system, widely used by many software developers, including Sun (for example, NetBeans developers used CVS to manage sources until recently). Being in development for about 20 years, CVS is rather stable and platform-independent. Although loosing popularity these days, it still provides familiar interface and services such as sourceforge.net[3] continue to support CVS-based development. The most recent version of CVS as the time of this writing is 1.12.13. The product was last updated by the community 2005-10-03 and latest changes are limited to bug fixes only. 3. Architecture CVS uses client-server architecture: server stores project files and history of changes (the repository), clients connect to the server in order to obtain (check out) a complete copy of the project and, after modifying files, check them back in. Typically, the client and server connect over a LAN or over the Internet, but client and server may both run on the same machine. When remote repository is used (most common case), clients can connect to it and perform authentication using two methods - "external" and "pserver". External means that cvs will use external program specified in $CVS_RSH environment variable (default is 'ssh') to start a program specified by $CVS_SERVER (default is 'cvs') on a remote machine. The command line looks like this: $CVS_RSH -l $CVS_SERVER server After cvs is started on the remote machine, data are transmitted through standard input and output. The other connection method, "pserver" or password server, requires cvs daemon started on a remote machine. The same executable is used on both sides. Clients connect to port 2401 (configurable) and server performs authentication based on passwd file located in the repository client wishes to connect to. This file contains passwords encrypted according to standard crypt(3C) function. Common practice is to log in to a repository first, in which case CVS stores password (trivially scrambled) in $HOME/.cvspass. Upon successul login, subsequent cvs commands won't ask for a password. CVS is about 70,000 lines of C code. It is released under version 1 of the GPL. This project depends on PSARC/2006/537[4] to provide (optional) compression of the data being transmitted. It also uses ssh (PSARC/2001/212) and rsh; both are theoretically optional, but used frequently in real life. 4. Documentation CVS comes with manual pages describing commands and providing examples. These manual pages are installed in /usr/share/man/man{1,5} The other source of documentation is a book named "Version Management with CVS"[5]. 4. Interfaces Exported Interface Stability Notes ------------------ --------- ----- SUNWcvs Committed Package name. /usr/bin/cvs Committed Executable location. $HOME/.cvsrc Committed Path to user config file. /CVSROOT Committed Path to the repository config files. /*/*/CVS Committed Path to the working directory information files. /*/*/CVS/Root Committed Path to the file that contains the path to the current repository. /*/*/CVS/Repository Committed Path to the file containing the directory within the repository, which the current directory corresponds with. /*/*/CVS/Entries Committed Contains the file/dir list of the current directory. /*/*/CVS/Entries.Log Committed Backup copy of Entries file, /*/*/CVS/Entries.Backup Committed Backup copy of Entries file. /*/*/CVS/Entries.Static Committed Backup copy of Entries file. /*/*/CVS/Tag Committed Contains per-directory sticky tags or dates. /*/*/CVS/Notify Committed Stores notifications which have not yet been sent to the server. /*/*/CVS/Notify.tmp Committed Backup copy of Notify. /*/*/CVS/Base/ Committed Stores the original copy of file that is being edited by "edit" command. /*/*/CVS/Baserev Committed Contains the revision for each file stored in the Base/ directory. /*/*/CVS/Baserev.tmp Committed Backup copy of Baserev file. /*/*/CVS/Template Committed Contains the template specified by the rcsinfo file. /CVSROOT/cvsignore Committed Path to the file with per-repository list of ignored files. $HOME/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with per-user list of files to ignore. /*/*/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with list of ignored files. Only applies to the directory that contains it. cvs commandline Volatile Options, cvs commands and their options. cvs add Volatile Command. cvs admin (rcs) Volatile Command. cvs annotate Volatile Command. cvs checkout (co, get) Volatile Command. cvs commit (ci) Volatile Command. cvs diff Volatile Command. cvs edit Volatile Command. cvs editors Volatile Command. cvs export Volatile Command. cvs history Volatile Command. cvs import Volatile Command. cvs init Volatile Command. cvs log Volatile Command. cvs login Volatile Command. cvs logout Volatile Command. cvs ls Volatile Command. cvs pserver Volatile Command. cvs rannotate Volatile Command. cvs rdiff (patch) Volatile Command. cvs release Volatile Command. cvs remove Volatile Command. cvs rlog Volatile Command. cvs rls Volatile Command. cvs rtag Volatile Command. cvs server Volatile Command. cvs status Volatile Command. cvs tag Volatile Command. cvs unedit Volatile Command. cvs update Volatile Command. cvs version Volatile Command. cvs watch Volatile Command. cvs watchers Volatile Command. CVSIGNORE Committed Environment variable. CVSWRAPPERS Committed Environment variable. CVSREAD Committed Environment variable. CVSREADONLYFS Committed Environment variable. CVSUMASK (client side) Uncommitted Environment variable. CVSUMASK (server side) Committed Environment variable. CVSROOT Committed Environment variable. CVSEDITOR Committed Environment variable. CVS_RSH Committed Environment variable. CVS_SERVER Committed Environment variable. CVS_PASSFILE Committed Environment variable. CVS_CLIENT_PORT Committed Environment variable. CVS_PROXY_PORT Committed Environment variable. CVS_RCMD_PORT Committed Environment variable. CVS_CLIENT_LOG Committed Environment variable. CVS_SERVER_SLEEP Committed Environment variable. CVS_IGNORE_REMOTE_ROOT Committed Environment variable. CVS_LOCAL_BRANCH_NUM Committed Environment variable. CVS_PID Committed Environment variable. Return status (except diff command) Committed Return status. Return status of diff command Volatile Return status. All commands are marked Volatile after ChangeLog examination. Command actions do not change at all, but every command has additional modifiers (or options) and interpretation of the latter could be changed (and actually did) in a minor release. One example is interpretation of '-r tag1::tag2' option of log command that changed in a minor release. Almost all environment variables are marked as Committed because they have not changed since they first appeared in CVS. Uncommitted environment variables are marked as such because the documentation ("Version Management with CVS") clearly stated that future versions might not use those. Imported Interface Specified in ------------------ ------------ zlib PSARC/2006/537 ssh PSARC/2001/212 5. References 1. http://cvs.nongnu.org/ 2. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/ 3. http://alexandria.wiki.sourceforge.net/CVS+-+Version+Control+for+Source+Code 4. PSARC/2006/537 Solaris libz (zlib) upgrade to 1.2.3 5. http://ximbiot.com/cvs/manual/ From Peter.Dennis@sun.com Thu Feb 21 07:14:42 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LFEfdY012603 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LFEccP010978 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:14:40 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL0030NH0CRZ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00HI9H0AAFB0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:14:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LFEYe2021840 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:14:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00501GIQIT00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Dennis@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:14:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.66] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL006T8GZXBP40@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:14:22 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:13:38 +0000 From: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer Subject: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] Sender: Peter.Dennis@sun.com To: psarc-ext@sun.com Cc: Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070828) Status: RO Content-Length: 11112 I am sponsoring this FastTrack for Maxim Kartashev. Mans pages are included in the case's materials directory. Thanks pete 1. Introduction This project proposes to add the source code management (SCM) system CVS[1] to the SFW consolidation for delivery on OpenSolaris/Indiana. Since CVS is externally maintained open source software, the SFW consolidation is a natural choice. This project requests a Minor release binding. 2. Background and motivation One of Indiana's (a.k.a OpenSolaris Developer Preview)[2] targets is to support software development on Solaris OS. The latter almost always requires use of SCM. CVS is an open-source version control system, widely used by many software developers, including Sun (for example, NetBeans developers used CVS to manage sources until recently). Being in development for about 20 years, CVS is rather stable and platform-independent. Although loosing popularity these days, it still provides familiar interface and services such as sourceforge.net[3] continue to support CVS-based development. The most recent version of CVS as the time of this writing is 1.12.13. The product was last updated by the community 2005-10-03 and latest changes are limited to bug fixes only. 3. Architecture CVS uses client-server architecture: server stores project files and history of changes (the repository), clients connect to the server in order to obtain (check out) a complete copy of the project and, after modifying files, check them back in. Typically, the client and server connect over a LAN or over the Internet, but client and server may both run on the same machine. When remote repository is used (most common case), clients can connect to it and perform authentication using two methods - "external" and "pserver". External means that cvs will use external program specified in $CVS_RSH environment variable (default is 'ssh') to start a program specified by $CVS_SERVER (default is 'cvs') on a remote machine. The command line looks like this: $CVS_RSH -l $CVS_SERVER server After cvs is started on the remote machine, data are transmitted through standard input and output. The other connection method, "pserver" or password server, requires cvs daemon started on a remote machine. The same executable is used on both sides. Clients connect to port 2401 (configurable) and server performs authentication based on passwd file located in the repository client wishes to connect to. This file contains passwords encrypted according to standard crypt(3C) function. Common practice is to log in to a repository first, in which case CVS stores password (trivially scrambled) in $HOME/.cvspass. Upon successul login, subsequent cvs commands won't ask for a password. CVS is about 70,000 lines of C code. It is released under version 1 of the GPL. This project depends on PSARC/2006/537[4] to provide (optional) compression of the data being transmitted. It also uses ssh (PSARC/2001/212) and rsh; both are theoretically optional, but used frequently in real life. 4. Documentation CVS comes with manual pages describing commands and providing examples. These manual pages are installed in /usr/share/man/man{1,5} The other source of documentation is a book named "Version Management with CVS"[5]. 5. Interfaces Exported Interface Stability Notes ------------------ --------- ----- SUNWcvs Committed Package name. /usr/bin/cvs Committed Executable location. $HOME/.cvsrc Committed Path to user config file. /CVSROOT Committed Path to the repository config files. /*/*/CVS Committed Path to the working directory information files. /*/*/CVS/Root Committed Path to the file that contains the path to the current repository. /*/*/CVS/Repository Committed Path to the file containing the directory within the repository, which the current directory corresponds with. /*/*/CVS/Entries Committed Contains the file/dir list of the current directory. /*/*/CVS/Entries.Log Committed Backup copy of Entries file. /*/*/CVS/Entries.Backup Committed Backup copy of Entries file. /*/*/CVS/Entries.Static Committed Backup copy of Entries file. /*/*/CVS/Tag Committed Contains per-directory sticky tags or dates. /*/*/CVS/Notify Committed Stores notifications which have not yet been sent to the server. /*/*/CVS/Notify.tmp Committed Backup copy of Notify. /*/*/CVS/Base/ Committed Stores the original copy of file that is being edited by "edit" command. /*/*/CVS/Baserev Committed Contains the revision for each file stored in the Base/ directory. /*/*/CVS/Baserev.tmp Committed Backup copy of Baserev file. /*/*/CVS/Template Committed Contains the template specified by the rcsinfo file. /CVSROOT/cvsignore Committed Path to the file with per-repository list of ignored files. $HOME/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with per-user list of files to ignore. /*/*/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with list of ignored files. Only applies to the directory that contains it. cvs commandline Volatile Options, cvs commands and their options. cvs add Volatile Command. cvs admin (rcs) Volatile Command. cvs annotate Volatile Command. cvs checkout (co, get) Volatile Command. cvs commit (ci) Volatile Command. cvs diff Volatile Command. cvs edit Volatile Command. cvs editors Volatile Command. cvs export Volatile Command. cvs history Volatile Command. cvs import Volatile Command. cvs init Volatile Command. cvs log Volatile Command. cvs login Volatile Command. cvs logout Volatile Command. cvs ls Volatile Command. cvs pserver Volatile Command. cvs rannotate Volatile Command. cvs rdiff (patch) Volatile Command. cvs release Volatile Command. cvs remove Volatile Command. cvs rlog Volatile Command. cvs rls Volatile Command. cvs rtag Volatile Command. cvs server Volatile Command. cvs status Volatile Command. cvs tag Volatile Command. cvs unedit Volatile Command. cvs update Volatile Command. cvs version Volatile Command. cvs watch Volatile Command. cvs watchers Volatile Command. CVSIGNORE Committed Environment variable. CVSWRAPPERS Committed Environment variable. CVSREAD Committed Environment variable. CVSREADONLYFS Committed Environment variable. CVSUMASK (client side) Uncommitted Environment variable. CVSUMASK (server side) Committed Environment variable. CVSROOT Committed Environment variable. CVSEDITOR Committed Environment variable. CVS_RSH Committed Environment variable. CVS_SERVER Committed Environment variable. CVS_PASSFILE Committed Environment variable. CVS_CLIENT_PORT Committed Environment variable. CVS_PROXY_PORT Committed Environment variable. CVS_RCMD_PORT Committed Environment variable. CVS_CLIENT_LOG Committed Environment variable. CVS_SERVER_SLEEP Committed Environment variable. CVS_IGNORE_REMOTE_ROOT Committed Environment variable. CVS_LOCAL_BRANCH_NUM Committed Environment variable. CVS_PID Committed Environment variable. Return status (except diff command) Committed Return status. Return status of diff command Volatile Return status. All commands are marked Volatile after ChangeLog examination. Command actions do not change at all, but every command has additional modifiers (or options) and interpretation of the latter could be changed (and actually did) in a minor release. One example is interpretation of '-r tag1::tag2' option of log command that changed in a minor release. Almost all environment variables are marked as Committed because they have not changed since they first appeared in CVS. Uncommitted environment variables are marked as such because the documentation ("Version Management with CVS") clearly stated that future versions might not use those. Imported Interface Specified in ------------------ ------------ zlib PSARC/2006/537 ssh PSARC/2001/212 6. References 1. http://cvs.nongnu.org/ 2. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/ 3. http://alexandria.wiki.sourceforge.net/CVS+-+Version+Control+for+Source+Code 4. PSARC/2006/537 Solaris libz (zlib) upgrade to 1.2.3 5. http://ximbiot.com/cvs/manual/ From danek.duvall@sun.com Thu Feb 21 08:02:06 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LG26Hb013765 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LG24hX018350 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00C6RJ7HCJ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00AXKJ6YIA30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com (zruty.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.168.40]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LG1iaV010127; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1LG1iZ0028563; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dduvall@localhost) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m1LG1hWB028561; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:01:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:01:43 -0800 From: Danek Duvall Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> To: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <20080221160143.GW6010@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-27) Status: RO Content-Length: 541 On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 03:13:38PM +0000, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer wrote: > /*/*/CVS Committed Path to the working > directory information > files. You've labeled all of the files in the working directory as Committed interfaces. Are they really interfaces at all? Just because they don't change doesn't mean that they aren't implementation details of CVS, and hence Private. Do any programs other than cvs expect to use these files? Danek From gdamore@sun.com Thu Feb 21 08:32:01 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LGW1FG015314 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LGVvtL021797 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00I89KLBU000@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:31:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00E08KKWHJ70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:31:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LGVi0s002102 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00M01KCXQM00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL0009HKKNOD20@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:31:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:29:58 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 12488 I have two questions: 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? 2) Not really architectural, but you indicate that this is released under GPLv1. If so, are there are any other GPLv1 software in OpenSolaris? Maybe this needs a special case of legal review? (I am not entirely familiar with the differences between GPLv1 and GPLv2....) -- Garrett Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer wrote: > I am sponsoring this FastTrack for Maxim Kartashev. > > Mans pages are included in the case's materials directory. > > Thanks > pete > > 1. Introduction > > This project proposes to add the source code management (SCM) > system CVS[1] to the SFW consolidation for delivery on > OpenSolaris/Indiana. Since CVS is externally maintained open > source software, the SFW consolidation is a natural choice. > > This project requests a Minor release binding. > > 2. Background and motivation > > One of Indiana's (a.k.a OpenSolaris Developer Preview)[2] targets > is to support software development on Solaris OS. The latter > almost always requires use of SCM. > > CVS is an open-source version control system, widely used by many > software developers, including Sun (for example, NetBeans developers > used CVS to manage sources until recently). Being in development for > about 20 years, CVS is rather stable and platform-independent. > Although loosing popularity these days, it still provides familiar > interface and services such as sourceforge.net[3] continue to support > CVS-based development. > > The most recent version of CVS as the time of this writing is > 1.12.13. The product was last updated by the community > 2005-10-03 and latest changes are limited to bug fixes only. > > 3. Architecture > > CVS uses client-server architecture: server stores project files > and history of changes (the repository), clients connect to the server > in order to obtain (check out) a complete copy of the project and, > after modifying files, check them back in. Typically, the client and > server connect over a LAN or over the Internet, but client and server > may both run on the same machine. > > When remote repository is used (most common case), clients can connect > to it and perform authentication using two methods - "external" and > "pserver". > > External means that cvs will use external program specified in > $CVS_RSH environment variable (default is 'ssh') to start a program > specified by $CVS_SERVER (default is 'cvs') on a remote machine. The > command line looks like this: > $CVS_RSH -l $CVS_SERVER server > After cvs is started on the remote machine, data are transmitted > through standard input and output. > > The other connection method, "pserver" or password server, requires > cvs daemon started on a remote machine. The same executable is used > on both sides. Clients connect to port 2401 (configurable) and > server performs authentication based on passwd file located in > the repository client wishes to connect to. This file contains > passwords encrypted according to standard crypt(3C) function. Common > practice is to log in to a repository first, in which case CVS stores > password (trivially scrambled) in $HOME/.cvspass. Upon successul > login, subsequent cvs commands won't ask for a password. > > CVS is about 70,000 lines of C code. It is released under version 1 > of the GPL. > > This project depends on PSARC/2006/537[4] to provide (optional) > compression of the data being transmitted. It also uses ssh > (PSARC/2001/212) and rsh; both are theoretically optional, but > used frequently in real life. > > 4. Documentation > > CVS comes with manual pages describing commands and providing > examples. These manual pages are installed in /usr/share/man/man{1,5} > The other source of documentation is a book named "Version Management > with CVS"[5]. > > 5. Interfaces > > Exported Interface Stability Notes > ------------------ --------- ----- > SUNWcvs Committed Package name. > > /usr/bin/cvs Committed Executable location. > > $HOME/.cvsrc Committed Path to user config > file. > > /CVSROOT Committed Path to the repository > config files. > > /*/*/CVS Committed Path to the working > directory information > files. > > /*/*/CVS/Root Committed Path to the file that > contains the path to > the current repository. > > /*/*/CVS/Repository Committed Path to the file > containing the > directory within the > repository, which the > current directory > corresponds with. > > /*/*/CVS/Entries Committed Contains the file/dir > list of the current > directory. > > /*/*/CVS/Entries.Log Committed Backup copy of Entries > file. > > /*/*/CVS/Entries.Backup Committed Backup copy of Entries > file. > > /*/*/CVS/Entries.Static Committed Backup copy of Entries > file. > > /*/*/CVS/Tag Committed Contains per-directory > sticky tags or dates. > > /*/*/CVS/Notify Committed Stores notifications > which have not yet > been sent to the > server. > > /*/*/CVS/Notify.tmp Committed Backup copy of Notify. > > /*/*/CVS/Base/ Committed Stores the original > copy of file that is > being edited by > "edit" command. > > /*/*/CVS/Baserev Committed Contains the revision > for each file stored > in the Base/ > directory. > > /*/*/CVS/Baserev.tmp Committed Backup copy of Baserev > file. > > /*/*/CVS/Template Committed Contains the template > specified by the > rcsinfo file. > > /CVSROOT/cvsignore Committed Path to the file with > per-repository list of > ignored files. > > $HOME/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with > per-user list of files > to ignore. > > /*/*/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with > list of ignored files. > Only applies to the > directory that > contains it. > > cvs commandline Volatile Options, cvs commands > and their options. > > cvs add Volatile Command. > cvs admin (rcs) Volatile Command. > cvs annotate Volatile Command. > cvs checkout (co, get) Volatile Command. > cvs commit (ci) Volatile Command. > cvs diff Volatile Command. > cvs edit Volatile Command. > cvs editors Volatile Command. > cvs export Volatile Command. > cvs history Volatile Command. > cvs import Volatile Command. > cvs init Volatile Command. > cvs log Volatile Command. > cvs login Volatile Command. > cvs logout Volatile Command. > cvs ls Volatile Command. > cvs pserver Volatile Command. > cvs rannotate Volatile Command. > cvs rdiff (patch) Volatile Command. > cvs release Volatile Command. > cvs remove Volatile Command. > cvs rlog Volatile Command. > cvs rls Volatile Command. > cvs rtag Volatile Command. > cvs server Volatile Command. > cvs status Volatile Command. > cvs tag Volatile Command. > cvs unedit Volatile Command. > cvs update Volatile Command. > cvs version Volatile Command. > cvs watch Volatile Command. > cvs watchers Volatile Command. > > CVSIGNORE Committed Environment variable. > CVSWRAPPERS Committed Environment variable. > CVSREAD Committed Environment variable. > CVSREADONLYFS Committed Environment variable. > CVSUMASK (client side) Uncommitted Environment variable. > CVSUMASK (server side) Committed Environment variable. > CVSROOT Committed Environment variable. > CVSEDITOR Committed Environment variable. > CVS_RSH Committed Environment variable. > CVS_SERVER Committed Environment variable. > CVS_PASSFILE Committed Environment variable. > CVS_CLIENT_PORT Committed Environment variable. > CVS_PROXY_PORT Committed Environment variable. > CVS_RCMD_PORT Committed Environment variable. > CVS_CLIENT_LOG Committed Environment variable. > CVS_SERVER_SLEEP Committed Environment variable. > CVS_IGNORE_REMOTE_ROOT Committed Environment variable. > CVS_LOCAL_BRANCH_NUM Committed Environment variable. > CVS_PID Committed Environment variable. > > Return status (except diff command) Committed Return status. > Return status of diff command Volatile Return status. > > All commands are marked Volatile after ChangeLog examination. Command > actions do not change at all, but every command has additional > modifiers (or options) and interpretation of the latter could be > changed (and actually did) in a minor release. One example is > interpretation of '-r tag1::tag2' option of log command that changed > in a minor release. > > Almost all environment variables are marked as Committed because they > have not changed since they first appeared in CVS. > > Uncommitted environment variables are marked as such because the > documentation ("Version Management with CVS") clearly stated that > future versions might not use those. > > Imported Interface Specified in > ------------------ ------------ > zlib PSARC/2006/537 > ssh PSARC/2001/212 > > 6. References > > 1. http://cvs.nongnu.org/ > 2. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/ > 3. > http://alexandria.wiki.sourceforge.net/CVS+-+Version+Control+for+Source+Code > > 4. PSARC/2006/537 Solaris libz (zlib) upgrade to 1.2.3 > 5. http://ximbiot.com/cvs/manual/ From Maxim.Kartashev@sun.com Thu Feb 21 08:32:40 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LGWeSe015328 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LGWbdC022186 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00I9LKMFU200@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00E4RKM8HP70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LGWWse008778 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:32:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00501H06SB00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Maxim.Kartashev@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:32:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.159.126.180] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL00B1QKLZDQA0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:32:23 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:32:23 +0300 From: Maxim Kartashev Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <20080221160143.GW6010@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Maxim.Kartashev@sun.com To: Danek Duvall Cc: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , psarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47BDA797.4060401@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <20080221160143.GW6010@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 843 Danek Duvall wrote: > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 03:13:38PM +0000, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer wrote: > > >> /*/*/CVS Committed Path to the working >> directory information >> files. >> > > You've labeled all of the files in the working directory as Committed > interfaces. Are they really interfaces at all? Just because they don't > change doesn't mean that they aren't implementation details of CVS, and > hence Private. Do any programs other than cvs expect to use these files? > Those files can be used by cvs wrappers, for example, GUI for cvs. For example, after a quick lookup, I found that CvsGUI (http://cvsgui.sourceforge.net/) relies on presence of /*/*/CVS/Entries and /*/*/CVS/Tag files. From Maxim.Kartashev@sun.com Thu Feb 21 09:02:32 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LH2ViC016508 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LH2RuD014386 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:02:30 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00L1JM04FN00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:02:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00EYOM03HNA0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LH2R9H012627 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:02:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00701LNE1H00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Maxim.Kartashev@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:02:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.159.126.180] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL00DLSM01CE90@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:02:26 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:02:25 +0300 From: Maxim Kartashev Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> Sender: Maxim.Kartashev@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDAEA1.6090805@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1298 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > I have two questions: > > 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving > away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider > integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or > other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? Fine by me. Are there any examples of such man page notes I can use as a template? Any suggestions on wording? > 2) Not really architectural, but you indicate that this is released > under GPLv1. Yes, that's what ./COPYING says. From the other hand, `cvs --version` does not specify GPL version and README (to which source code refers) allows to use "any later version"; to add to the mess, some source files are not even GPL. From what I understand, we can assume that it's GPLv2 safe and I added "GPLv2 only" disclaimer to package copyright file. Also, see below for legal info. > If so, are there are any other GPLv1 software in OpenSolaris? Maybe > this needs a special case of legal review? (I am not entirely > familiar with the differences between GPLv1 and GPLv2....) Legal part of open source review has been completed -- you can check this page for more info https://opensourcereview.central.sun.com/app?action=ViewReq&traq_num=8228 From bart.smaalders@sun.com Thu Feb 21 09:18:18 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LHIIaC017048 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:18:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LHIBRU017614; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00M13MQDID00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from zion.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.75]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00E15MQCHJD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.228.109]) by zion.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1LHICfW196059; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:18:12 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:23:08 -0800 From: Bart Smaalders Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDB37C.5020402@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1565 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > I have two questions: > > 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving > away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider > integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or > other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? > The entire FOSS universe? http://xml.apache.org/cvs.html http://developer.apple.com/opensource/cvs.html http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/ I still find older project using this; not having it available is an impediment. Changing the docs to suggest alternatives is not really part of a man page. It might be a reasonable comment in a developer doc entitled "choosing a SCMS"; such a document doesn't exist as far as I know. > 2) Not really architectural, but you indicate that this is released > under GPLv1. If so, are there are any other GPLv1 software in > OpenSolaris? Maybe this needs a special case of legal review? (I am > not entirely familiar with the differences between GPLv1 and GPLv2....) > I would assume the OSR process will explore any issues here. I suggest that if you're worried about this, _you_ do the background reading and have the discussion w/ legal, rather than raising vague "fetch a rock" questions such as asking the project team to explore if any other components in OpenSolaris that use this license. - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts "You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird". From Matthew.Jacob@sun.com Thu Feb 21 09:29:50 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LHToBC017483 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:29:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LHTnVv020787 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL0001ZN9P5O00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00ELDN9OHTE0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LHTm3i009642 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00M01N4ICV00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Matthew.Jacob@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.feral.com ([192.67.166.1]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL001PCN9NGG00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:29:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:29:47 -0800 From: Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> Sender: Matthew.Jacob@sun.com To: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDB50B.9020109@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20080218 SeaMonkey/1.1.7 Status: RO Content-Length: 1010 > > OpenSolaris/Indiana. Since CVS is externally maintained open > source software, t It's being maintained, but it's not being really aggressively developed- it's really at the end of its life cycle. The open source SCMs are now duking it out with git, mercurial and svn. The pros of CVS are that it is just about universal and it is what it is and people know how to deal with its limitations (lack of atomic fileset updates, directory rename tracking, poor merge tools, and so on). The cons of CVS is the usage of RCS as the underlying file object store (all sorts of breakages including data corruption that goes undetected). Don't get me wrong- I use CVS *all* the time as it is the easiest *personal* set of tools to use for my own prototyping work. I use perforce when I can get it otherwise. I used to use BitKeeper but there are personal reasons why I'll not be using it ever again. When inside Sun and in Sun environments, teamware is reasonable enough, although a bit heavyweight. From Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com Thu Feb 21 09:32:10 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LHWAS1017637 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LHW8hw021557 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00G01NDLGV00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL0071ZNDKF1F0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LHW7VO015469 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:32:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00301N63M900@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Andrew.Gabriel@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:32:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.9.200.17] ([81.187.162.106]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL00J3ONDJ0M40@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:32:07 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:35:25 +0000 From: Andrew Gabriel Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> Sender: Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071105) Status: RO Content-Length: 904 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > I have two questions: > > 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving > away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider > integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or > other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? CVS is more extensively used than just the FOSS universe -- I've come across (and in some cases, worked for) a good number of customers who use it for their own products/projects. I cannot imagine any of them ever converting to another SCM in the lifetime of their products, and the inclusion of CVS tools would make Solaris slightly easier to use for them. A note on the manpage that new projects should consider svn or hg instead might be a good idea, but marking it obsolete would seem to me to significantly devalue the purpose for adding it. -- Andrew From gdamore@sun.com Thu Feb 21 09:39:43 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LHdh8B017757 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LHdedo023872; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00113NQ55N00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00E65NQ4HNF0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:39:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LHdehQ011049; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00001NGL0L00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL00GLTNPZ4GE0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:39:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:37:56 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDB37C.5020402@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Bart Smaalders Cc: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDB6F4.3020308@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB37C.5020402@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 2930 Bart Smaalders wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> I have two questions: >> >> 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving >> away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider >> integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or >> other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? >> > > The entire FOSS universe? See "pretty much", not "all". > > http://xml.apache.org/cvs.html Apache uses SVN for most of its projects. Only a few of them seem to be continuing to use CVS. > http://developer.apple.com/opensource/cvs.html I wonder if Apple uses CVS internally. The developer.apple.com website seems much more geared towards use of CVS to "push" software, than as a true SCM. > http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/ NetBSD has had numerous projects in process attempting to replace CVS. I would definitely count them as "moving away". Part of the problem is that they haven't decided *which* SCM to settle on -- or at least they hadn't as of about a year ago. > > I still find older project using this; not having it available is an > impediment. > > Changing the docs to suggest alternatives is not really part of a man > page. It might be a reasonable comment in a developer doc entitled > "choosing a SCMS"; such a document doesn't exist as far as I know. I beg to differ. There are numerous examples where man pages indicate that a tool, API, or otherwise is obsolete and "suggests" possible alternatives. Folks who need CVS for existing projects will have it available for their use. I agree that this is good. But at the same time, I don't think it is a terrible idea to gently steer folks towards other SCMs, particularly for new projects, where we (OpenSolaris and Sun) may be better equipped to provide support. (Better equipped because we use the SCM ourselves, because the SCM doesn't suffer from one of the known defects of CVS, and because the SCM also has folks still actively maintaining it.) > >> 2) Not really architectural, but you indicate that this is released >> under GPLv1. If so, are there are any other GPLv1 software in >> OpenSolaris? Maybe this needs a special case of legal review? (I am >> not entirely familiar with the differences between GPLv1 and GPLv2....) >> > > I would assume the OSR process will explore any issues here. I suggest > that if you're worried about this, _you_ do the background reading > and have the discussion w/ legal, rather than raising vague "fetch > a rock" questions such as asking the project team to explore if any > other components in OpenSolaris that use this license. Actually the project team has already answered this to my satisfaction. The main point here was concern that precedent set for other GPLv2 software *might* not apply for GPLv1. But an OSR has already been done, so I'm quite happy on this point. -- Garrett From gdamore@sun.com Thu Feb 21 09:45:50 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LHjoIP017814 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LHjlML041229 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:45:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00H1DO0DR000@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00GS7O0CNZ10@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LHjm3v001160 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00I01NOLOG00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:45:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL001IIO0BGG90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:45:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:44:09 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Andrew Gabriel Cc: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDB869.90903@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 1891 Andrew Gabriel wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> I have two questions: >> >> 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving >> away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider >> integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or >> other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? > > CVS is more extensively used than just the FOSS universe -- I've come > across (and in some cases, worked for) a good number of customers who > use it for their own products/projects. I cannot imagine any of them > ever converting to another SCM in the lifetime of their products, and > the inclusion of CVS tools would make Solaris slightly easier to use > for them. > > A note on the manpage that new projects should consider svn or hg > instead might be a good idea, but marking it obsolete would seem to me > to significantly devalue the purpose for adding it. Why? Obsolete acts as guidance to folks choosing it, that it will get reduced levels of support (certainly true! CVS isn't actively sustained anymore -- the CVS maintainers have, I believe, moved to the SVN project), and may in the future be removed (which is a real possibility.) Someday in the future, we might want to be able to stop including CVS, if only because we find we don't have the ability to properly support it. Obsolete leaves that option open, without going through undue pain and suffering. Don't get me wrong -- I've used CVS quite a bit -- in fact when I left Tadpole, we were still using it for our Solaris and Sun Ray source trees. NetBSD still uses it as well -- though they periodically reexamine alternatives because there is a lot of dissatisfaction with CVS' limitations. And in any case, its just a suggestion on my part. The project team is free to take it, or ignore it altogether. -- Garrett From Matthew.Jacob@sun.com Thu Feb 21 09:50:21 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LHoKmj017875 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LHoKTm042649 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00117O7VYU00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL001K5O7UGX00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LHoIfO012766 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00201O68YO00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from Matthew.Jacob@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.feral.com ([192.67.166.1]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL00F2WO7TY940@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:50:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:50:17 -0800 From: Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> Sender: Matthew.Jacob@sun.com To: Andrew Gabriel Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDB9D9.9090307@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20080218 SeaMonkey/1.1.7 Status: RO Content-Length: 988 Andrew Gabriel wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> I have two questions: >> >> 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving >> away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider >> integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or >> other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? > > CVS is more extensively used than just the FOSS universe -- I've come > across (and in some cases, worked for) a good number of customers who > use it for their own products/projects. I cannot imagine any of them > ever converting to another SCM in the lifetime of their products, and > the inclusion of CVS tools would make Solaris slightly easier to use > for them. > Marginally. Most people outside of Sun already have a built up /usr/local of GNU tools that they've been actively updating and keeping since Solaris 2.5- and yes, CVS is usually part of that bundle (along with screen, bfdutils, gcc, ....) From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Thu Feb 21 10:00:47 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LI0lYj018606 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LI0cdX045785 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00J0NOP94H00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00GYJOP7O320@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LI0hn2010575 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:00:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00501O9WYM00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:00:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.199] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL008WQOOW1820@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:00:33 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:00:32 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Andrew Gabriel Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , psarc-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080116) Status: RO Content-Length: 1325 Andrew Gabriel wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> I have two questions: >> >> 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving >> away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider >> integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or >> other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? > > CVS is more extensively used than just the FOSS universe -- I've come > across (and in some cases, worked for) a good number of customers who > use it for their own products/projects. I cannot imagine any of them > ever converting to another SCM in the lifetime of their products, and > the inclusion of CVS tools would make Solaris slightly easier to use for > them. > > A note on the manpage that new projects should consider svn or hg > instead might be a good idea, but marking it obsolete would seem to me > to significantly devalue the purpose for adding it. I think this is a VERY bad idea. We the OpenSolaris or Sun ARC have no business telling people which SCM to choose. We didn't put a note in the SVN man pages saying that Mercurial is better (which for some subset of us it is) nor do I think we should modify the CVS communities pages to tell Solaris/OpenSolaris that they are advised against using CVS. -- Darren J Moffat From pablomh@gmail.com Thu Feb 21 10:06:28 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LI6SSn018836 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LI6Ovw047806 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:06:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL0034TOYQ1C00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL0017OOYPH410@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:06:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LI3vUM004969 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:06:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.sun.com ([160.41.221.233] [160.41.221.233]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1063982 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:06:20 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com (relay44i.sun.com [192.5.209.118]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4049996 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:05:42 +0000 (Z) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.239] [66.249.82.239]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-20169278 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:05:41 +0000 (Z) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s11so109194wxc.17 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.226.14 with SMTP id y14mr6941636rvg.24.1203617138497; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:05:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.212.4 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:05:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:05:38 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Pablo_M=E9ndez_Hern=E1ndez?= Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter.Dennis@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, Maxim.Kartashev@sun.com Message-id: <59b875a00802211005u36b13f00o1b549239ad01f08d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_lqqlHR3wYzd7MH8B4vs04A)" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=UIr/BO0vgeKRDejgG/uhvtG4yTajO9myGgyuFbTRSp4=; b=Oq7nUWPyuJ6EUeFbqn+1w5cA4LPJ4pELHfoJj47GwJMlwqHdP622VRssYSl0V5v5IONUi0rHN5gFtkQqG1Go4lIq3wpmtT1tsLep24yP7Vb8U16mKzgxq/v84Fejtpbj9BxwqLL0dYD3YfNz7H6OMYg7EgZt800MgJ4+lCn82Ow= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=IimWm/qfx/MAINaTddAdqFmtXJyNBJjWv7vARlAknBtwjlqZWq9yz4ejtD9F2tvH2HfcPjU3fKfia80vRrGj/R/mMzCRQnZ1uOvGoa5OPk/LjrGN6WsguBZz/nL19XPSQ5+Rfa3hjCa8tQBrzCXwYOUlFK/mzNX4pqTH6VFrTJA= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=2.4/5.0, scanned in 0.824sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 46796 --Boundary_(ID_lqqlHR3wYzd7MH8B4vs04A) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline Hi Garret: 2008/2/21, Garrett D'Amore : > > I have two questions: > > 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be moving > away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps consider > integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man pages or > other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg? Maybe we should keep an eye on OpenCVS (developed by the OpenBSD people). They plan to fix some of the shortcomings of CVS maintaing backwards compatibility: http://www.opencvs.org/ 2) Not really architectural, but you indicate that this is released > under GPLv1. If so, are there are any other GPLv1 software in > OpenSolaris? Maybe this needs a special case of legal review? (I am > not entirely familiar with the differences between GPLv1 and GPLv2....) OpenCVS is BSD licensed, so it could be an alternative if GPLv1 is a problem. Just my 0.02=80. Regards Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer wrote: > > > I am sponsoring this FastTrack for Maxim Kartashev. > > > > Mans pages are included in the case's materials directory. > > > > Thanks > > pete > > > > 1. Introduction > > > > This project proposes to add the source code management (SCM) > > system CVS[1] to the SFW consolidation for delivery on > > OpenSolaris/Indiana. Since CVS is externally maintained open > > source software, the SFW consolidation is a natural choice. > > > > This project requests a Minor release binding. > > > > 2. Background and motivation > > > > One of Indiana's (a.k.a OpenSolaris Developer Preview)[2] targets > > is to support software development on Solaris OS. The latter > > almost always requires use of SCM. > > > > CVS is an open-source version control system, widely used by many > > software developers, including Sun (for example, NetBeans developers > > used CVS to manage sources until recently). Being in development for > > about 20 years, CVS is rather stable and platform-independent. > > Although loosing popularity these days, it still provides familiar > > interface and services such as sourceforge.net[3] continue to support > > CVS-based development. > > > > The most recent version of CVS as the time of this writing is > > 1.12.13. The product was last updated by the community > > 2005-10-03 and latest changes are limited to bug fixes only. > > > > 3. Architecture > > > > CVS uses client-server architecture: server stores project files > > and history of changes (the repository), clients connect to the serve= r > > in order to obtain (check out) a complete copy of the project and, > > after modifying files, check them back in. Typically, the client and > > server connect over a LAN or over the Internet, but client and server > > may both run on the same machine. > > > > When remote repository is used (most common case), clients can connec= t > > to it and perform authentication using two methods - "external" and > > "pserver". > > > > External means that cvs will use external program specified in > > $CVS_RSH environment variable (default is 'ssh') to start a program > > specified by $CVS_SERVER (default is 'cvs') on a remote machine. The > > command line looks like this: > > $CVS_RSH -l $CVS_SERVER server > > After cvs is started on the remote machine, data are transmitted > > through standard input and output. > > > > The other connection method, "pserver" or password server, requires > > cvs daemon started on a remote machine. The same executable is used > > on both sides. Clients connect to port 2401 (configurable) and > > server performs authentication based on passwd file located in > > the repository client wishes to connect to. This file contains > > passwords encrypted according to standard crypt(3C) function. Common > > practice is to log in to a repository first, in which case CVS stores > > password (trivially scrambled) in $HOME/.cvspass. Upon successul > > login, subsequent cvs commands won't ask for a password. > > > > CVS is about 70,000 lines of C code. It is released under version 1 > > of the GPL. > > > > This project depends on PSARC/2006/537[4] to provide (optional) > > compression of the data being transmitted. It also uses ssh > > (PSARC/2001/212) and rsh; both are theoretically optional, but > > used frequently in real life. > > > > 4. Documentation > > > > CVS comes with manual pages describing commands and providing > > examples. These manual pages are installed in /usr/share/man/man{1,5} > > The other source of documentation is a book named "Version Management > > with CVS"[5]. > > > > 5. Interfaces > > > > Exported Interface Stability Notes > > ------------------ --------- ----- > > SUNWcvs Committed Package name. > > > > /usr/bin/cvs Committed Executable location. > > > > $HOME/.cvsrc Committed Path to user config > > file. > > > > /CVSROOT Committed Path to the repository > > config files. > > > > /*/*/CVS Committed Path to the working > > directory information > > files. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Root Committed Path to the file that > > contains the path to > > the current repository. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Repository Committed Path to the file > > containing the > > directory within the > > repository, which the > > current directory > > corresponds with. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Entries Committed Contains the file/dir > > list of the current > > directory. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Entries.Log Committed Backup copy of Entrie= s > > file. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Entries.Backup Committed Backup copy of Entrie= s > > file. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Entries.Static Committed Backup copy of Entrie= s > > file. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Tag Committed Contains per-director= y > > sticky tags or dates. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Notify Committed Stores notifications > > which have not yet > > been sent to the > > server. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Notify.tmp Committed Backup copy of Notify= . > > > > /*/*/CVS/Base/ Committed Stores the original > > copy of file that is > > being edited by > > "edit" command. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Baserev Committed Contains the revision > > for each file stored > > in the Base/ > > directory. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Baserev.tmp Committed Backup copy of Basere= v > > file. > > > > /*/*/CVS/Template Committed Contains the template > > specified by the > > rcsinfo file. > > > > /CVSROOT/cvsignore Committed Path to the file with > > per-repository list o= f > > ignored files. > > > > $HOME/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with > > per-user list of file= s > > to ignore. > > > > /*/*/.cvsignore Committed Path to the file with > > list of ignored files. > > Only applies to the > > directory that > > contains it. > > > > cvs commandline Volatile Options, cvs commands > > and their options. > > > > cvs add Volatile Command. > > cvs admin (rcs) Volatile Command. > > cvs annotate Volatile Command. > > cvs checkout (co, get) Volatile Command. > > cvs commit (ci) Volatile Command. > > cvs diff Volatile Command. > > cvs edit Volatile Command. > > cvs editors Volatile Command. > > cvs export Volatile Command. > > cvs history Volatile Command. > > cvs import Volatile Command. > > cvs init Volatile Command. > > cvs log Volatile Command. > > cvs login Volatile Command. > > cvs logout Volatile Command. > > cvs ls Volatile Command. > > cvs pserver Volatile Command. > > cvs rannotate Volatile Command. > > cvs rdiff (patch) Volatile Command. > > cvs release Volatile Command. > > cvs remove Volatile Command. > > cvs rlog Volatile Command. > > cvs rls Volatile Command. > > cvs rtag Volatile Command. > > cvs server Volatile Command. > > cvs status Volatile Command. > > cvs tag Volatile Command. > > cvs unedit Volatile Command. > > cvs update Volatile Command. > > cvs version Volatile Command. > > cvs watch Volatile Command. > > cvs watchers Volatile Command. > > > > CVSIGNORE Committed Environment variable. > > CVSWRAPPERS Committed Environment variable. > > CVSREAD Committed Environment variable. > > CVSREADONLYFS Committed Environment variable. > > CVSUMASK (client side) Uncommitted Environment variable. > > CVSUMASK (server side) Committed Environment variable. > > CVSROOT Committed Environment variable. > > CVSEDITOR Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_RSH Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_SERVER Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_PASSFILE Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_CLIENT_PORT Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_PROXY_PORT Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_RCMD_PORT Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_CLIENT_LOG Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_SERVER_SLEEP Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_IGNORE_REMOTE_ROOT Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_LOCAL_BRANCH_NUM Committed Environment variable. > > CVS_PID Committed Environment variable. > > > > Return status (except diff command) Committed Return status. > > Return status of diff command Volatile Return status. > > > > All commands are marked Volatile after ChangeLog examination. Command > > actions do not change at all, but every command has additional > > modifiers (or options) and interpretation of the latter could be > > changed (and actually did) in a minor release. One example is > > interpretation of '-r tag1::tag2' option of log command that changed > > in a minor release. > > > > Almost all environment variables are marked as Committed because they > > have not changed since they first appeared in CVS. > > > > Uncommitted environment variables are marked as such because the > > documentation ("Version Management with CVS") clearly stated that > > future versions might not use those. > > > > Imported Interface Specified in > > ------------------ ------------ > > zlib PSARC/2006/537 > > ssh PSARC/2001/212 > > > > 6. References > > > > 1. http://cvs.nongnu.org/ > > 2. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/ > > 3. > > > http://alexandria.wiki.sourceforge.net/CVS+-+Version+Control+for+Source+C= ode > > > > 4. PSARC/2006/537 Solaris libz (zlib) upgrade to 1.2.3 > > 5. http://ximbiot.com/cvs/manual/ > --=20 Pablo M=E9ndez Hern=E1ndez --Boundary_(ID_lqqlHR3wYzd7MH8B4vs04A) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline Hi Garret:

2008/2/21, Garrett D'= ;Amore <gdamore@sun.com>:
I have two questions:

1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS un= iverse seems to be moving
away or have already moved away from, CVS, sh= ould we perhaps consider
integration as Obsolete, with some suitable no= te in the man pages or
other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN or Hg?

Maybe we should keep an eye on OpenCVS (developed by the Open= BSD people). They plan to fix some of the shortcomings of CVS maintaing bac= kwards compatibility:

http://www.opencvs.org/
&nbs= p;

= 2) Not really architectural, but you indicate that this is released
under GPLv1.  If so, are there are any other GPLv1 software in OpenSolaris?  Maybe this needs a special case of legal review?=   (I am
not entirely familiar with the differences between GP= Lv1 and GPLv2....)

OpenCVS is BSD licensed, so it could be an alternative if GPLv1 is= a problem.


Just my 0.02=80.


Regards
 

Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer wrote:

> I am sponsoring this= FastTrack for Maxim Kartashev.
>
> Mans pages are included i= n the case's materials directory.
>
> Thanks
> pet= e
>
> 1. Introduction
>
>   This project p= roposes to add the source code management (SCM)
>   system= CVS[1] to the SFW consolidation for delivery on
>   OpenS= olaris/Indiana. Since CVS is externally maintained open
>   source software, the SFW consolidation is a natural choic= e.
>
>   This project requests a Minor release bind= ing.
>
> 2. Background and motivation
>
> =   One of Indiana's (a.k.a OpenSolaris Developer Preview)[2] target= s
>   is to support software development on Solaris OS. The lat= ter
>   almost always requires use of SCM.
>
&g= t;   CVS is an open-source version control system, widely used by= many
>   software developers, including Sun (for example,= NetBeans developers
>   used CVS to manage sources until recently). Being in deve= lopment for
>   about 20 years, CVS is rather stable and p= latform-independent.
>   Although loosing popularity these= days, it still provides familiar
>   interface and services such as sourceforge.net[3] continu= e to support
>   CVS-based development.
>
>&= nbsp;  The most recent version of CVS as the time of this writing is >   1.12.13. The product was last updated by the community<= br> >   2005-10-03 and latest changes are limited to bug fixes on= ly.
>
> 3. Architecture
>
>   CVS use= s client-server architecture: server stores project files
> &nb= sp; and history of changes (the repository), clients connect to the server<= br> >   in order to obtain (check out) a complete copy of the pro= ject and,
>   after modifying files, check them back in. T= ypically, the client and
>   server connect over a LAN or = over the Internet, but client and server
>   may both run on the same machine.
>
> =   When remote repository is used (most common case), clients can conne= ct
>   to it and perform authentication using two methods = - "external" and
>   "pserver".
>
>   Extern= al means that cvs will use external program specified in
> &nbs= p; $CVS_RSH environment variable (default is 'ssh') to start a prog= ram
>   specified by $CVS_SERVER (default is 'cvs'= ) on a remote machine. The
>   command line looks like this:
>   &= nbsp;     $CVS_RSH -l <username> <hostname>= $CVS_SERVER server
>   After cvs is started on the remote= machine, data are transmitted
>   through standard input = and output.
>
>   The other connection method, "pserver"= or password server, requires
>   cvs daemon started on a = remote machine. The same executable is used
>   on both si= des. Clients connect to port 2401 (configurable) and
>   server performs authentication based on passwd file locat= ed in
>   the repository client wishes to connect to. This= file contains
>   passwords encrypted according to standa= rd crypt(3C) function. Common
>   practice is to log in to a repository first, in which cas= e CVS stores
>   password (trivially scrambled) in $HOME/.= cvspass. Upon successul
>   login, subsequent cvs commands= won't ask for a password.
>
>   CVS is about 70,000 lines of C code. It is relea= sed under version 1
>   of the GPL.
>
> = ;  This project depends on PSARC/2006/537[4] to provide (optional)
= >   compression of the data being transmitted. It also uses s= sh
>   (PSARC/2001/212) and rsh; both are theoretically optional= , but
>   used frequently in real life.
>
> = 4. Documentation
>
>   CVS comes with manual pages = describing commands and providing
>   examples. These manual pages are installed in /usr/share/= man/man{1,5}
>   The other source of documentation is a bo= ok named "Version Management
>   with CVS"[5]. >
> 5. Interfaces
>
>   Exported Interface     =        Stability    =    Notes
>   ------------------   = ;         ---------  = ;     -----
>   SUNWcvs  &nb= sp;            =         Committed    = ;   Package name.
>
>   /usr/bin/cvs = ;            &n= bsp;    Committed       E= xecutable location.
>
>   $HOME/.cvsrc      =             Com= mitted       Path to user config
>&nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;          file.
><= br> >   <repository>/CVSROOT    &nbs= p;     Committed     &nbs= p; Path to the repository
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            config= files.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS &nbs= p;       Committed    &nb= sp;  Path to the working
>      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;     directory information
>           &nbs= p;             = files.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS/Root =    Committed       Path to the= file that
>         &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;  contains the path to
>      &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;     the current repository.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS/Repository &nbs= p;    Committed Path to the file
>  &n= bsp;            = ;            contain= ing the
>          = ;            &n= bsp;    directory within the
>    = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;         repository, which the<= br> >           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;   current directory
>    &n= bsp;            = ;          corresponds with. >
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS/Entries  = ;       Committed Contains the file/dir
&= gt;            =             &nb= sp;  list of the current
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  directory.
>
>   <working dir>/*/= */CVS/Entries.Log     Committed Backup copy of Entries<= br> >           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   file.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/= CVS/Entries.Backup  Committed Backup copy of Entries
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  file.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS= /Entries.Static  Committed Backup copy of Entries
> &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             = file.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS/Tag &n= bsp;           Committed = Contains per-directory
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  sticky tags or dates.
>
>   <working= dir>/*/*/CVS/Notify        &nbs= p; Committed Stores notifications
>    &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         which have not yet >           &nb= sp;            =    been sent to the
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp; server.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS/Not= ify.tmp      Committed Backup copy of Notify.=
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS/Base/  = ;         Committed Stores the orig= inal
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  copy of file that is
>     &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        being edited by
>&nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =              &q= uot;edit" command.
>
>   <working dir>/*= /*/CVS/Baserev         Committed Co= ntains the revision
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  for each file stored
>     &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        in the Base/
> =             &nb= sp;            = directory.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS/Baser= ev.tmp     Committed Backup copy of Baserev
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  file.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/CVS= /Template        Committed Contains= the template
>         = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;    specified by the
>    &nb= sp;            =           rcsinfo file.
>
>   <repository>/CVSROOT/cvsignore  =       Committed Path to the file with
>= ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ; per-repository list of
>       =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      ignored files.
>
>   $HOME/.cvsignore     &n= bsp;            = ;    Committed Path to the file with
> &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           per-user = list of files
>         = ;            &n= bsp;     to ignore.
>
>   <working dir>/*/*/.cvsignore    = ;      Committed Path to the file with
&g= t;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;  list of ignored files.
>      = ;            &n= bsp;        Only applies to the
>=             &nb= sp;            =   directory that
>           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp; contains it.
>
>   cvs commandline  = ;             V= olatile        Options, cvs command= s
>           = ;            &n= bsp; and their options.
>
>   cvs add        &n= bsp;            = ;  Volatile        Command. >   cvs admin (rcs)       = ;        Volatile    = ;    Command.
>   cvs annotate &n= bsp;            = ;    Volatile       =  Command.
>   cvs checkout (co, get)   = ;     Volatile      =   Command.
>   cvs commit (ci)       =         Volatile    =     Command.
>   cvs diff  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;       Volatile    = ;    Command.
>   cvs edit  =             &nb= sp;       Volatile   &nbs= p;    Command.
>   cvs editors &n= bsp;            = ;     Volatile       = ; Command.
>   cvs export        = ;            Vo= latile        Command.
>&nbs= p;  cvs history         &= nbsp;         Volatile  &= nbsp;     Command.
>   cvs import=             &nb= sp;       Volatile   &nbs= p;    Command.
>   cvs init  = ;            &n= bsp;       Volatile   &nb= sp;    Command.
>   cvs log        &n= bsp;            = ;  Volatile        Command. >   cvs login        = ;             V= olatile        Command.
>&nb= sp;  cvs logout         &= nbsp;          Volatile&n= bsp;       Command.
>  = cvs ls           &n= bsp;            = ;Volatile        Command.
>   cvs pserver       &nbs= p;           Volatile&nbs= p;       Command.
>   c= vs rannotate          &nb= sp;      Volatile     &nb= sp;  Command.
>   cvs rdiff (patch)  &= nbsp;          Volatile &= nbsp;      Command.
>   cvs = release           &n= bsp;       Volatile    &n= bsp;   Command.
>   cvs remove        = ;            Vo= latile        Command.
>&nbs= p;  cvs rlog         &nbs= p;            V= olatile        Command.
>&nb= sp;  cvs rls         &nbs= p;             = Volatile        Command.
>&n= bsp;  cvs rtag         &n= bsp;            = ;Volatile        Command.
>   cvs server        = ;            Vo= latile        Command.
>&nbs= p;  cvs status         &n= bsp;          Volatile&nb= sp;       Command.
>   = cvs tag           &n= bsp;           Volatile&n= bsp;       Command.
>  = cvs unedit          &nbs= p;         Volatile  = ;      Command.
>   cvs update        = ;            Vo= latile        Command.
>&nbs= p;  cvs version         &= nbsp;         Volatile  &= nbsp;     Command.
>   cvs watch&= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Volatile   &nbs= p;    Command.
>   cvs watchers &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    Volatile       = ; Command.
>
>   CVSIGNORE      &nb= sp;            =   Committed       Environment variable.<= br> >   CVSWRAPPERS       &= nbsp;           Committed=        Environment variable.
> &n= bsp; CVSREAD          &nb= sp;            Commi= tted       Environment variable.
>   CVSREADONLYFS       &n= bsp;         Committed  &= nbsp;    Environment variable.
>   CVSUMASK= (client side)        Uncommitted&n= bsp;    Environment variable.
>   CVSUMASK = (server side)        Committed = ;      Environment variable.
>   CVSROOT        &n= bsp;            = ;  Committed       Environment variable.=
>   CVSEDITOR       &n= bsp;            = ; Committed       Environment variable.
&= gt;   CVS_RSH        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp; Committed       Environment variable. >   CVS_SERVER        = ;            Co= mmitted       Environment variable.
>&= nbsp;  CVS_PASSFILE        &nb= sp;         Committed &nb= sp;     Environment variable.
>   CVS_= CLIENT_PORT          &nbs= p;    Committed       Environm= ent variable.
>   CVS_PROXY_PORT       &= nbsp;        Committed  &= nbsp;    Environment variable.
>   CVS_RCMD= _PORT           &nbs= p;     Committed       En= vironment variable.
>   CVS_CLIENT_LOG   &n= bsp;            = ;Committed       Environment variable.
>   CVS_SERVER_SLEEP       = ;       Committed    = ;   Environment variable.
>   CVS_IGNORE_REMOTE_= ROOT        Committed  &n= bsp;    Environment variable.
>   CVS_LOCAL= _BRANCH_NUM          Comm= itted       Environment variable.
>   CVS_PID        &n= bsp;            = ;  Committed       Environment variable.=
>
>   Return status (except diff command) &nb= sp; Committed       Return status.
>&n= bsp;  Return status of diff command      = ;   Volatile        Retur= n status.
>
>   All commands are marked Volatile after ChangeLog= examination. Command
>   actions do not change at all, bu= t every command has additional
>   modifiers (or options) = and interpretation of the latter could be
>   changed (and actually did) in a minor release. One exampl= e is
>   interpretation of '-r tag1::tag2' option = of log command that changed
>   in a minor release.
&g= t;
>   Almost all environment variables are marked as Comm= itted because they
>   have not changed since they first appeared in CVS.
&g= t;
>   Uncommitted environment variables are marked as suc= h because the
>   documentation ("Version Management = with CVS") clearly stated that
>   future versions might not use those.
>
>&nb= sp;  Imported Interface        = ;    Specified in
>   ----------------= --            -= -----------
>   zlib      &n= bsp;            = ;       PSARC/2006/537
>   ssh         =             &nb= sp;     PSARC/2001/212
>
> 6. References<= br> >
>   1. http://= cvs.nongnu.org/
>   2. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/<= /a>
>   3.
> http://alexandria.wiki.sourcefo= rge.net/CVS+-+Version+Control+for+Source+Code
>
> &n= bsp; 4. PSARC/2006/537 Solaris libz (zlib) upgrade to 1.2.3
>   5. http://ximb= iot.com/cvs/manual/


--
Pablo M=E9ndez= Hern=E1ndez --Boundary_(ID_lqqlHR3wYzd7MH8B4vs04A)-- From gdamore@sun.com Thu Feb 21 10:36:53 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LIaq1i021755 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:36:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LIajhb003604 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:36:51 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00H09QDDAW00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00G3KQDCLI10@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LIamEW007833 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:36:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00501Q25G400@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:36:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL003FPQDBCY40@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:36:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:35:08 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Andrew Gabriel , psarc-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDC45C.30608@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 2494 Darren J Moffat wrote: > Andrew Gabriel wrote: >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> I have two questions: >>> >>> 1) Given that pretty much the entire FOSS universe seems to be >>> moving away or have already moved away from, CVS, should we perhaps >>> consider integration as Obsolete, with some suitable note in the man >>> pages or other docs recommending the use of alternatives such as SVN >>> or Hg? >> >> CVS is more extensively used than just the FOSS universe -- I've come >> across (and in some cases, worked for) a good number of customers who >> use it for their own products/projects. I cannot imagine any of them >> ever converting to another SCM in the lifetime of their products, and >> the inclusion of CVS tools would make Solaris slightly easier to use >> for them. >> >> A note on the manpage that new projects should consider svn or hg >> instead might be a good idea, but marking it obsolete would seem to >> me to significantly devalue the purpose for adding it. > > I think this is a VERY bad idea. We the OpenSolaris or Sun ARC have > no business telling people which SCM to choose. We didn't put a note > in the SVN man pages saying that Mercurial is better (which for some > subset of us it is) nor do I think we should modify the CVS > communities pages to tell Solaris/OpenSolaris that they are advised > against using CVS. Ah, but there is an important consideration here. Our (Sun/OpenSolaris) ability to properly provide support for CVS is somewhat limited (both because of limitations in CVS itself, and because we don't use it ourselves, and because there is little community support remaining for it). I therefore think we do ourselves and our users a service if we gently point out that there are newer alternatives which will be better supported (by us), and which are free of some of the worst of the limitations in CVS. Of course, as others have pointed out, the folks who really need CVS (because they are already using it in projects) have already downloaded/installed it, and have little need for it to be "integrated". Given that, I do wonder how meritous its integration into Solaris is. But then again, I don't necessarily agree that there is a pressing need for Sun to deliver 4 or more SCMs (hg, svn, cvs, teamware, and don't forget just plain old sccs and rcs!), any more than there is a pressing need to deliver OpenWindows, CDE, Gnome/JDS, XFCE, and KDE all at the same time. -- Garrett From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Thu Feb 21 10:40:01 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LIe10T021813 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LIdtxp010452 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL0051BQIKJF00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:39:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL001KGQIJGR20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:39:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LIdtas019571 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:39:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00F01Q5FTU00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:39:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.199] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL006VQQII2C20@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:39:55 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:39:54 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDC45C.30608@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Andrew Gabriel , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDC57A.6070109@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> <47BDC45C.30608@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080116) Status: RO Content-Length: 857 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Ah, but there is an important consideration here. Our (Sun/OpenSolaris) > ability to properly provide support for CVS is somewhat limited (both > because of limitations in CVS itself, and because we don't use it > ourselves, and because there is little community support remaining for > it). I therefore think we do ourselves and our users a service if we > gently point out that there are newer alternatives which will be better > supported (by us), and which are free of some of the worst of the > limitations in CVS. The counter argument to this being we would likely be the only vendor putting in such a statement. Does RHEL have one ? Does Ubuntu ? Does SuSE ? Does AIX ? Does HP-UX ? Does MacOS X ? etc etc ? I personally don't think we should be vandalising upstream man pages like this. -- Darren J Moffat From binarycrusader@gmail.com Thu Feb 21 11:01:09 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LJ183U022854 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LJ10nH012274 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:01:07 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL0011IRHSWC00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00G7LRHRNX80@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LIlqW6015283 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:01:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.sun.com ([160.41.209.24] [160.41.209.24]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-198116 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:01:02 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp14es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-194789 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:01:02 +0000 (Z) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.225] [66.249.82.225]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3002245 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:01:02 +0000 (Z) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s11so123939wxc.17 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:57:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.251.1 with SMTP id y1mr6957888rvh.107.1203620262782; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.127.12 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:57:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:57:42 -0600 From: Shawn Walker Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDC57A.6070109@Sun.COM> Sender: binarycrusader@gmail.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Andrew Gabriel , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=/EzCLa0wDt+zihVEfM+BcDWuLS4wSGW5tZY5uop/aXU=; b=OZix9PH2/w4JkDF9Pz4s60KdZIvSvcafvKO2GMjtIQE8lMRsl1GmCzXpvZsNDLC4xpluVP1+fjnfTcoFbUcZ308WERC9JUnRA1YnXZFFTc0PXkMT8XbHf9QvSAfAVumeYl2S/+tv2HIZzGatEWUwQ74I8MC4YMn4Fj1xCVMBbwI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=hz02cCSxZFHg97vkgj4mmN7gHT3dXa1Cv3UajcMIW6a87zg1lS2UiwqV4J6kYODjFvKPjzzt1f5TKZce1BiKANpAqtIl4IEmmFnfwXhMaIuSsKgG5LbEuBZD7hvUf5wzcTjRUXyIWkiJj7hEmpJn3/HYHU/t2q3sOsWmxAciixQ= X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Google-Sender-Auth: d8bbba393efd0c71 X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.065sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> <47BDC45C.30608@sun.com> <47BDC57A.6070109@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 950 On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Darren J Moffat wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > Ah, but there is an important consideration here. Our (Sun/OpenSolaris) > > ability to properly provide support for CVS is somewhat limited (both > > because of limitations in CVS itself, and because we don't use it > > ourselves, and because there is little community support remaining for > > it). I therefore think we do ourselves and our users a service if we > > gently point out that there are newer alternatives which will be better > > supported (by us), and which are free of some of the worst of the > > limitations in CVS. > > The counter argument to this being we would likely be the only vendor > putting in such a statement. Does RHEL have one ? Does Ubuntu ? Does > SuSE ? Does AIX ? Does HP-UX ? Does MacOS X ? etc etc ? > > I personally don't think we should be vandalising upstream man pages > like this. From what I've seen, other vendors tend to use the repository Status: RO something comes from to indicate its supported status. For example, Ubuntu puts everything "officially unsupported" into their universe repositories (IIRC). I agree with Darren's sentiment here. It seems wrong to do anything that could be perceived as somehow "disparaging" or otherwise implication that the software is bad. I think a simple support status indicator of "yes" or "no" would be preferable. -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ "To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so." - Robert Orben From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Thu Feb 21 11:24:11 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LJOAXG023821 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LJNv8q021897; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:24:04 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00I27SK3WD00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:24:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00GPHSK1LF30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1LJO1KV016413; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:24:01 -0600 (CST) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m1LJO1gj016412; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:24:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:24:01 -0600 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDC57A.6070109@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Andrew Gabriel , Maxim Kartashev Mail-followup-to: Darren J Moffat , Garrett D'Amore , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Andrew Gabriel , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <20080221192401.GU14350@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> <47BDC45C.30608@sun.com> <47BDC57A.6070109@Sun.COM> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 829 On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 06:39:54PM +0000, Darren J Moffat wrote: > I personally don't think we should be vandalising upstream man pages > like this. We should limit ourselves to adding an ATTRIBUTES section, whatever NOTES might be needed regarding the given software as integrated into OpenSolaris, and maybe additions/correction to SEE ALSO (e.g., section number remapping). IF we should choose to make CVS Obsolete Committed, THEN that should be noted in the ATTRIBUTES section. The question of whether CVS is Obsolete is legitimate, but frankly also subjective. I think the best thing to do is to leave it as Committed and forget obsoleting it. CVS will not completely go away for many years yet, giving us plenty of time to handle the EOF process. The best part of doing it that way is that this thread ends there ;) From jek3@sun.com Thu Feb 21 11:26:46 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LJQj9j023851 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:26:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LJQUHE022888; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:26:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00909SOD5L00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:26:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL001KFSOAGW60@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:26:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.150.12.37] (vpn-129-150-12-37.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.37]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1LJQWVC328244; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:26:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:24:38 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Andrew Gabriel , "Garrett D'Amore" , psarc-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDCFF6.4070000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 895 Darren J Moffat wrote: > I think this is a VERY bad idea. We the OpenSolaris or Sun ARC have > no business telling people which SCM to choose. We didn't put a note > in the SVN man pages saying that Mercurial is better (which for some > subset of us it is) nor do I think we should modify the CVS > communities pages to tell Solaris/OpenSolaris that they are advised > against using CVS. +1 Gee, I haven't seen this topic in a while, but it used to be a very common discussion. The discussion has always returned to: Manpages are declarative and should not contain advice (other than Obsolete components). Advice from Sun should be redirected to guides (or such) and should never contain advice on choosing among appropriate (non-Sun) products. I think FOSS communities are close enough in concept to being "products". I feel like Bill Murray in "Groundhog's Day". - jek3 From jek3@sun.com Thu Feb 21 11:35:19 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LJZIKx024034 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LJZ5Ki006495; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL0052RT2S2K00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00G91T2QO3B0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.150.12.37] (vpn-129-150-12-37.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.12.37]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m1LJZCSU330273; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:35:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:33:18 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> To: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDD1FE.5060705@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 704 Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer wrote: > 1. Introduction > > This project proposes to add the source code management (SCM) > system CVS[1] to the SFW consolidation for delivery on > OpenSolaris/Indiana. Since CVS is externally maintained open > source software, the SFW consolidation is a natural choice. > > This project requests a Minor release binding. > > 2. Background and motivation > > One of Indiana's (a.k.a OpenSolaris Developer Preview)[2] targets > is to support software development on Solaris OS. The latter > almost always requires use of SCM. Ah, another poster child for a repository. (Please don't "Reply all". There was enough noise in the Pyton case...) - jek3 From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Thu Feb 21 11:44:15 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LJiFhl024378 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LJiBQ4019847; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:44:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00A07THLCR00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL001PITHKH470@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m1LJi8WK020083; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m1LJi8xp020082; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:44:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:44:08 -0800 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <20080221192401.GU14350@Sun.COM> To: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Andrew Gabriel , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <20080221194408.GA20028@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> <47BDC45C.30608@sun.com> <47BDC57A.6070109@Sun.COM> <20080221192401.GU14350@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Status: RO Content-Length: 591 Nicolas Williams wrote: > > The question of whether CVS is Obsolete is legitimate, but frankly also > subjective. > > I think the best thing to do is to leave it as Committed and forget > obsoleting it. CVS will not completely go away for many years yet, > giving us plenty of time to handle the EOF process. > > The best part of doing it that way is that this thread ends there ;) +1 .. IMO the initial thread also subestimates how much it's still used. Sun's own JES product line components are mostly on CVS, for example. -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From gdamore@sun.com Thu Feb 21 12:08:34 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LK8Y3v026037 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LK8Ugw007525 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:08:33 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00805UM7I700@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:08:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL00G9IUM6NXF0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LK8U4C019450 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00501UHFS000@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL00IPKULVKID0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:08:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:06:40 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <20080221194408.GA20028@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Jyri Virkki Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer , Andrew Gabriel , Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47BDD9D0.2060202@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> <47BDC45C.30608@sun.com> <47BDC57A.6070109@Sun.COM> <20080221192401.GU14350@Sun.COM> <20080221194408.GA20028@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 693 Jyri Virkki wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: > >> The question of whether CVS is Obsolete is legitimate, but frankly also >> subjective. >> >> I think the best thing to do is to leave it as Committed and forget >> obsoleting it. CVS will not completely go away for many years yet, >> giving us plenty of time to handle the EOF process. >> >> The best part of doing it that way is that this thread ends there ;) >> > > +1 .. > IMO the initial thread also subestimates how much it's still used. > Sun's own JES product line components are mostly on CVS, for > example. > > > Okay, I concur. I just wanted to raise the question. I feel its been considered, so I'm happy. -- Garrett From Ienup.Sung@sun.com Thu Feb 21 12:48:37 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LKmbOi027646 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1LKmXeA021949 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWL00F41WH0DC00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:48:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWL001RHWGZH4B0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:48:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1LKmZfM006442 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:48:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWL00K01WAVPL00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Ienup.Sung@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:48:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.145.155.83] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWL0036DWGUJY80@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT psarc-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:48:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:48:30 -0800 From: Ienup Sung Subject: Re: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] In-reply-to: <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> Sender: Ienup.Sung@sun.com To: psarc-ext@sun.com Cc: Maxim Kartashev Reply-to: Ienup.Sung@sun.com Message-id: <47BDE39E.8030807@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47BD9522.7010409@sun.com> <47BDA706.6040101@sun.com> <47BDB65D.4070902@sun.com> <47BDBC40.5010706@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Status: RO Content-Length: 889 Darren J Moffat wrote at 02/21/08 10:00: > I think this is a VERY bad idea. We the OpenSolaris or Sun ARC have no > business telling people which SCM to choose. We didn't put a note in > the SVN man pages saying that Mercurial is better (which for some subset > of us it is) nor do I think we should modify the CVS communities pages > to tell Solaris/OpenSolaris that they are advised against using CVS. I'd like to say +1. And I also think that having discussion on this for this particular case is a waste of bandwidth, consume resource from project team asking them to change man pages in that particular manner, and not scaleable precedent going forward. We know people are using it and we know people want it available right out of the distros so that I don't need to download and install it; we ship it, and we deal with EOF or whatever when it is really necessary. Ienup From Peter.Dennis@sun.com Fri Feb 29 03:26:25 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1TBQP3J010790 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m1TBQNTF022989 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:26:24 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JWZ0090XZRZ2R00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:26:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JWZ005B2ZRYG950@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m1TBQLNB011816 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:26:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JWZ00G01ZNP8500@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Dennis@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:26:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.66] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JWZ00DJFZRO4190@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:26:13 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:25:27 +0000 From: Peter Dennis - Sustaining Engineer Subject: CVS integration [PSARC/2008/128 FastTrack timeout 02/28/2008] Sender: Peter.Dennis@sun.com To: psarc-ext@sun.com Cc: Maxim Kartashev Message-id: <47C7EBA7.70505@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080213) Status: RO Content-Length: 198 While this case had some discussion on the use of CVS this has no apparent bearing on the case itself. Therefore I am marking this case closed approved as the timeout has now passed. Thanks pete