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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:01:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
Subject: Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults [PSARC/2008/175
 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
To: PSARC-ext@sun.com
Cc: brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
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I'm submitting this on behalf of Sowmini Varadhan.  Timer set to 3/11/2008.

Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI
This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems
1. Introduction
    1.1. Project/Component Working Name:
	 Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults
    1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier:
	 Author:  Sowmini Varadhan
    1.3  Date of This Document:
	05 March, 2008
4. Technical Description

          Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults.
          ----------------------------------------------------

1. Summary
----------

This case proposes enhancements to the driver administration framework
introduced by PSARC 2007/429 to get/set default values for properties
from/to the driver from the user-space libdladm library. 

Release binding: minor                                                          

2. Description
--------------
The default values of some properties may not be known  a priori
to dladm. For example, the default MTU of ethernet links is
1500  bytes, whereas that for InfiniBand is 2044, and the value can
vary for tunnel links. In these cases, dladm will have to send
a system call to the driver to obtain the default value of the property.
Also, the "reset-linkprop" command will have to notify the driver
that the value of the property must be reset to the default value for
that driver.

This feature is achieved by sending a DLDIOC{SET, GET}PROP ioctl
to the driver with the pr_flags set to DLD_DEFAULT. The driver
may then recognize the DLD_DEFAULT flag and return the default value
for the property (in the case of a GETPROP), or reset the property
to the default value (for SETPROP).

Interface                       Classification          Comments
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DLD_DEFAULT			Committed		<sys/dld.h>

6. Resources and Schedule
    6.4. Steering Committee requested information
   	6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name:
		ON
    6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack
    6.6. ARC Exposure: open


From Sebastien.Roy@sun.com Wed Mar  5 07:00:45 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:00:21 -0500
From: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@sun.com>
Subject: Re: Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
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Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote:
> Interface                       Classification          Comments
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DLD_DEFAULT			Committed		<sys/dld.h>

Same comment here as the one I made for 2008/171.  Committed doesn't make 
sense to me unless we're going to also make the entire GLDv3 driver API 
Committed, and unfortunately, I haven't seen that case go by yet. 
Consolidation Private would be more logical at this point in time.

-Seb

From gdamore@opensolaris.org Wed Mar  5 07:07:46 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:04:50 -0800
From: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@opensolaris.org>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <47CEB585.8050508@sun.com>
To: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@sun.com>
Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>,
        PSARC-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org
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Sebastien Roy wrote:
> Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems wrote:
>   
>> Interface                       Classification          Comments
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> DLD_DEFAULT			Committed		<sys/dld.h>
>>     
>
> Same comment here as the one I made for 2008/171.  Committed doesn't make 
> sense to me unless we're going to also make the entire GLDv3 driver API 
> Committed, and unfortunately, I haven't seen that case go by yet. 
> Consolidation Private would be more logical at this point in time.
>   

And same reply!  (You are entirely correct, sir. :-)

    -- Garrett
> -Seb
> _______________________________________________
> brussels-dev mailing list
> brussels-dev@opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/brussels-dev
>   


From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar  5 11:32:36 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:25:03 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <peter.memishian@sun.com>
Subject: re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults
	[PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
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 > 2. Description
 > --------------
 > The default values of some properties may not be known  a priori
 > to dladm. For example, the default MTU of ethernet links is
 > 1500  bytes, whereas that for InfiniBand is 2044, and the value can
 > vary for tunnel links. In these cases, dladm will have to send
 > a system call to the driver to obtain the default value of the property.
 > Also, the "reset-linkprop" command will have to notify the driver
 > that the value of the property must be reset to the default value for
 > that driver.
 > 
 > This feature is achieved by sending a DLDIOC{SET, GET}PROP ioctl
 > to the driver with the pr_flags set to DLD_DEFAULT. The driver
 > may then recognize the DLD_DEFAULT flag and return the default value
 > for the property (in the case of a GETPROP), or reset the property
 > to the default value (for SETPROP).

This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might
be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread.
In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default
value, which can be handy when e.g. the set of objects that need to be
tweaked is dynamic or large.  Clearly, some thought is needed to figure
out how to express this via dladm(1M) (a new "-d" option to set-prop?),
but leaving that aside, I'd think that SETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT would be
the logical way to pass that information down into the framework -- so I'm
not sure the semantics proposed above are optimal.

-- 
meem

From gdamore@sun.com Wed Mar  5 11:45:17 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:43:00 -0800
From: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com
To: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>,
        psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org
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Peter Memishian wrote:
>  > 2. Description
>  > --------------
>  > The default values of some properties may not be known  a priori
>  > to dladm. For example, the default MTU of ethernet links is
>  > 1500  bytes, whereas that for InfiniBand is 2044, and the value can
>  > vary for tunnel links. In these cases, dladm will have to send
>  > a system call to the driver to obtain the default value of the property.
>  > Also, the "reset-linkprop" command will have to notify the driver
>  > that the value of the property must be reset to the default value for
>  > that driver.
>  > 
>  > This feature is achieved by sending a DLDIOC{SET, GET}PROP ioctl
>  > to the driver with the pr_flags set to DLD_DEFAULT. The driver
>  > may then recognize the DLD_DEFAULT flag and return the default value
>  > for the property (in the case of a GETPROP), or reset the property
>  > to the default value (for SETPROP).
>
> This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might
> be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread.
> In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default
> value, which can be handy when e.g. the set of objects that need to be
> tweaked is dynamic or large.  Clearly, some thought is needed to figure
> out how to express this via dladm(1M) (a new "-d" option to set-prop?),
> but leaving that aside, I'd think that SETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT would be
> the logical way to pass that information down into the framework -- so I'm
> not sure the semantics proposed above are optimal.
>   

That's a good point.

As I think about it, there are two other ways this could be done:

1) DLIOCRESETPROP or something similar, that has the same semantics as 
originally proposed in this case

2) Just let the ioctl consumer handle this by doing an explicit call to 
DLIOCGETPROP followed by DLIOCSETPROP with the returned value (both 
using the DLD_DEFAULT flag).

I think I lean towards number 2 -- I'm not sure there is a whole lot of 
merit in expressing the "reset-to-default" as a single ioctl, but maybe 
the project team has reasons for wanting such behavior.

    -- Garrett



From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar  5 12:01:41 2008
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From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <18382.62351.524167.564862@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
To: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Cc: "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>,
        PSARC-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org
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On (03/05/08 14:25), Peter Memishian wrote:
> 
> This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might
> be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread.
> In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default
> value,

Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink
drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII
parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value 
that the driver would come up with when it attaches.

--Sowmini



From gdamore@opensolaris.org Wed Mar  5 12:08:10 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:05:46 -0800
From: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@opensolaris.org>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to	get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM>
To: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
Cc: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>, psarc-ext@sun.com,
        brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
        "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
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sowmini.varadhan@sun.com wrote:
> On (03/05/08 14:25), Peter Memishian wrote:
>   
>> This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might
>> be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread.
>> In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default
>> value,
>>     
>
> Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink
> drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII
> parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value 
> that the driver would come up with when it attaches.
>   

I hate that we continue to try to talk about how ndd does things today.  
Only because ndd is totally 100% busted as far as any kind of sane 
administration goes.

I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine 
changing the "default" value for a property.

Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility 
of a writable "default".  As I see it, Brussels properties are now 
persistent.  Why would an administrator change a "default" independently 
of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value?  Its just not 
clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second 
persistent value is.

Note that in the context of *link* parameters, I believe that the 
"default" that comes from hardware is still meaningful.  E.g. a hardware 
device that supports a "default" MTU of 1500, versus one that supports 
9000 by default.  This is more like a capability in some respects, 
except it represents the initial state of the tunable in the absence of 
other influences (such as persistent data in a Brussels or SMF database.)

Given this, I still think I'd nuke DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT.  A 
userland entity that wants to change the settings back to hardware 
default can just query and set in two operations.  And, as indicated 
above, I'm not sure that the notion of changing a hardware-supplied 
"default" tunable value is meaningful.

Note that this has nothing to do with the idea of a "default_mtu" as the 
link parameter versus the "mtu" value tuned in the IP stack.  That's a 
totally different meaning for "default". Maybe that is where some of the 
confusion comes from?

I also don't think we have any kind of notion of "default" which says 
something like "all ethernet links should default to 1500" (or even, 
"all e1000g devices default to mtu of 9000").  I just don't see that 
form of wildcarding with properties as being something we support right now.

    -- Garrett
> --Sowmini
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> brussels-dev mailing list
> brussels-dev@opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/brussels-dev
>   


From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar  5 12:17:34 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:01:41 -0500
From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <47CEF7C4.5040003@sun.com>
To: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@sun.com>
Cc: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>,
        "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>,
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On (03/05/08 11:43), Garrett D'Amore wrote:
> 1) DLIOCRESETPROP or something similar, that has the same semantics as  
> originally proposed in this case
>
> 2) Just let the ioctl consumer handle this by doing an explicit call to  
> DLIOCGETPROP followed by DLIOCSETPROP with the returned value (both  
> using the DLD_DEFAULT flag).
>
> I think I lean towards number 2 -- I'm not sure there is a whole lot of  
> merit in expressing the "reset-to-default" as a single ioctl, but maybe  
> the project team has reasons for wanting such behavior.

At the risk of getting into implementation details, the current
"dladm reset-linkprop" is implemented as a DLIOCSETPROP; the prototype
of PSARC 2008/175 modifies that path to do a "DLIOCSETPROP with the
DLD_DEFAULT" flag, and no data provided (pr_valsize is 0, implying
"use the existing system default value"). 

If we do want to modify the value of the default itself, we could
use DLIOCSETPROP, with DLD_DEFAULT flag, and non-zero pr_valsize 
to indicate "use <this> as the default value". 

--Sowmini


From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar  5 12:17:42 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:10:08 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to	get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <20080305194548.GS4142@quasimodo.East.Sun.COM>
To: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
Cc: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>, PSARC-ext@sun.com,
        brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
        "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
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 > > This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might
 > > be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread.
 > > In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default
 > > value,
 > 
 > Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink
 > drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII
 > parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value 
 > that the driver would come up with when it attaches.

I'm not talking specifically about drivers, but about ndd in general.  As
we were recently discussing, most of the IP ndd tunables effectively
change the per-stack default.  I think that same concept has merit at the
datalink layer and as such I was hoping our design could account for that
being implemented one day without ending up with knots or warts in the
exposed GLDv3 API.  (But given that this is consolidation private at this
point, we have time to evolve this.)

-- 
meem

From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar  5 12:36:03 2008
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From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org>
To: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@opensolaris.org>
Cc: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>, psarc-ext@sun.com,
        brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
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On (03/05/08 12:05), Garrett D'Amore wrote:
> sowmini.varadhan@sun.com wrote:
>> On (03/05/08 14:25), Peter Memishian wrote:
>>   
>>> This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might
>>> be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread.
>>> In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default
>>> value,
>>>     
>>
>> Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink
>> drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII
>> parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value that 
>> the driver would come up with when it attaches.
>>   
>
> I hate that we continue to try to talk about how ndd does things today.   
> Only because ndd is totally 100% busted as far as any kind of sane  
> administration goes.

Meem specifically mentioned "ndd currently allows.. " so I was trying
to understand what specfically he was referring to.

> I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine  
> changing the "default" value for a property.
>
> Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility  
> of a writable "default".  As I see it, Brussels properties are now  
> persistent.  Why would an administrator change a "default" independently  
> of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value?  Its just not  

Agreed.

> Note that in the context of *link* parameters, I believe that the  
> "default" that comes from hardware is still meaningful.  E.g. a hardware  
> device that supports a "default" MTU of 1500, versus one that supports  
> 9000 by default.

Correct. another example is the choices made for certain drivers
to turn on/off some speed-duplex values by default, based on the
type of underlying hardware.

> Given this, I still think I'd nuke DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT.  A  
> userland entity that wants to change the settings back to hardware  
> default can just query and set in two operations. 

This is fine with me, except that it's no longer atomic. I realize
that this is not a critical operation, so atomicity/single-system-call
are not big factors.

>  And, as indicated  
> above, I'm not sure that the notion of changing a hardware-supplied  
> "default" tunable value is meaningful.

Agreed. It would be helpful to look at the example meem was thinking
about, so that we understand where he is coming from. 


--Sowmini


From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar  5 12:38:46 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:31:12 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to	get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <47CEFD1A.6030905@opensolaris.org>
To: gdamore@opensolaris.org
Cc: Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>,
        psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
        "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
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 > I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine 
 > changing the "default" value for a property.

Yes.

 > Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility 
 > of a writable "default".  As I see it, Brussels properties are now 
 > persistent.  Why would an administrator change a "default" independently 
 > of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value?  Its just not 
 > clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second 
 > persistent value is.

The idea would be to provide a general default value that would be more
applicable for their configuration, but then still provide an ability to
override it persistently on a per-link basis if needed.  As we bring more
properties into the mix, I could see some meaningful combinations -- e.g.,
default Wake-on-LAN settings that one might want to configure across all
applicable links.  Existing properties such as the WiFi radio or powermode
settings may already be things the administrator would like to set a
different persistent default value for.

-- 
meem

From sowmini.varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar  5 12:40:19 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:24:27 -0500
From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <18382.65056.372444.694463@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
To: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
        "Garrett D'Amore - sun microsystems" <gd78059@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
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On (03/05/08 15:10), Peter Memishian wrote:
> 
>  > > This all seems reasonable for what's proposed, but I wonder how it might
>  > > be extended to handle an additional case that's come up in another thread.
>  > > In particular, ndd currently allows one to effectively change the default
>  > > value,
>  > 
>  > Not sure I follow- could you provide an example? At least for datalink
>  > drivers, afaik, ndd allows one to set or get values (typically the MII
>  > parameters), and the "default" here is intended to be the value 
>  > that the driver would come up with when it attaches.
> 
> I'm not talking specifically about drivers, but about ndd in general.  As
> we were recently discussing, most of the IP ndd tunables effectively
> change the per-stack default.  I think that same concept has merit at the
> datalink layer and as such I was hoping our design could account for that

I think there are a lot of items that may not be transferrable to the
TCP/IP model.  It's still not clear if all the TCP/IP tunables 
can really be tied to a linkid, for example. Moreover, the ndd model
is still just the simple pair of  set and  get operations, and 
to reset a default paramter "foo", one needs a parameter called
"foo-default". 

> (But given that this is consolidation private at this
> point, we have time to evolve this.)

right.

--Sowmini


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From: sowmini.varadhan@sun.com
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
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Cc: gdamore@opensolaris.org, psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
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On (03/05/08 15:31), Peter Memishian wrote:
> 
>  > Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility 
>  > of a writable "default".  As I see it, Brussels properties are now 
>  > persistent.  Why would an administrator change a "default" independently 
>  > of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value?  Its just not 
>  > clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second 
>  > persistent value is.
> 
> The idea would be to provide a general default value that would be more
> applicable for their configuration, but then still provide an ability to
> override it persistently on a per-link basis if needed.  As we bring more
> properties into the mix, I could see some meaningful combinations -- e.g.,
> default Wake-on-LAN settings that one might want to configure across all
> applicable links.  Existing properties such as the WiFi radio or powermode
> settings may already be things the administrator would like to set a
> different persistent default value for.

this would really match the driver.conf "default 
global to all instances" model. I think that this 
needs more thought so that we come up with an 
extensible design. 

I agree with Garrett that we could take the more
conservative approach here, and define "reset-linkprop" 
to be the equivalent of 
 Use DLDIOCGETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT to get default_value;
 Use DLDIOCSETPROP to set default_value obtained from previous step.

--Sowmini


From gdamore@sun.com Wed Mar  5 13:08:13 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:05:54 -0800
From: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to	get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
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Cc: gdamore@opensolaris.org, Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com,
        brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
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Peter Memishian wrote:
>  > I think the point that I hear Peter making is that one can imagine 
>  > changing the "default" value for a property.
>
> Yes.
>
>  > Thinking about this somewhat further, I have my doubts about the utility 
>  > of a writable "default".  As I see it, Brussels properties are now 
>  > persistent.  Why would an administrator change a "default" independently 
>  > of changing the lasting persistent ("non-default") value?  Its just not 
>  > clear in the context of Brussels what the point of maintaining a second 
>  > persistent value is.
>
> The idea would be to provide a general default value that would be more
> applicable for their configuration, but then still provide an ability to
> override it persistently on a per-link basis if needed.  As we bring more
> properties into the mix, I could see some meaningful combinations -- e.g.,
> default Wake-on-LAN settings that one might want to configure across all
> applicable links.  Existing properties such as the WiFi radio or powermode
> settings may already be things the administrator would like to set a
> different persistent default value for.
>   

Okay, except that Brussels currently only has per-link tunables.  
Meaning there is no master repository of "defaults" for all links, or 
all links of a certain class.  I believe the desire for system-wide 
defaults may have merit (not entirely convinced, and I see problems with 
it), but it definitely falls outside of the scope of what we're talking 
about here -- which are defaults for a *given instance* (link), and 
which come from specific hardware in question.

I *think* we're approaching convergence here.  I'd be happy to see 
DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about 
atomicity, and keep it simple for now.

We can explore other ideas, such as system-wide defaults, later.

(Btw, the idea of system wide defaults is yet another reason why ndd is 
badly chosen for data links -- it simply wasn't designed with their 
needs in mind.  For IP, you normally only have a single global IP stack 
-- ignoring IP instances for the moment -- so the idea of a system wide 
-- or stack-wide at least -- default makes sense, with possibly 
different per-interface overrides.  But for link-layer tunables no such 
"master" set of tunables exists, anywhere, in Solaris today.)

    -- Garrett


From meem@triplex.east.sun.com Wed Mar  5 13:12:08 2008
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From: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to	get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
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        brussels-dev@opensolaris.org, gdamore@opensolaris.org,
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 > this would really match the driver.conf "default 
 > global to all instances" model. I think that this 
 > needs more thought so that we come up with an 
 > extensible design. 

Certainly.

 > I agree with Garrett that we could take the more
 > conservative approach here, and define "reset-linkprop" 
 > to be the equivalent of 
 >  Use DLDIOCGETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT to get default_value;
 >  Use DLDIOCSETPROP to set default_value obtained from previous step.

That's fine by me.

-- 
meem

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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:12:05 -0500
From: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to	get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
In-reply-to: <47CF0B32.4020607@sun.com>
To: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@sun.com>
Cc: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>, gdamore@opensolaris.org,
        Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com,
        brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
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 > Okay, except that Brussels currently only has per-link tunables.  
 > Meaning there is no master repository of "defaults" for all links, or 
 > all links of a certain class.  I believe the desire for system-wide 
 > defaults may have merit (not entirely convinced, and I see problems with 
 > it), but it definitely falls outside of the scope of what we're talking 
 > about here -- which are defaults for a *given instance* (link), and 
 > which come from specific hardware in question.

While many link properties are derived from hardware, some are strictly
software entities -- e.g. autopush configuration.

 > I *think* we're approaching convergence here.  I'd be happy to see 
 > DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about 
 > atomicity, and keep it simple for now.
 > 
 > We can explore other ideas, such as system-wide defaults, later.

Agreed.

--
meem

From gdamore@sun.com Wed Mar  5 13:28:59 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:26:43 -0800
From: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to	get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
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Cc: gdamore@opensolaris.org, Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com,
        brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
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Peter Memishian wrote:
>  > Okay, except that Brussels currently only has per-link tunables.  
>  > Meaning there is no master repository of "defaults" for all links, or 
>  > all links of a certain class.  I believe the desire for system-wide 
>  > defaults may have merit (not entirely convinced, and I see problems with 
>  > it), but it definitely falls outside of the scope of what we're talking 
>  > about here -- which are defaults for a *given instance* (link), and 
>  > which come from specific hardware in question.
>
> While many link properties are derived from hardware, some are strictly
> software entities -- e.g. autopush configuration.
>
>  > I *think* we're approaching convergence here.  I'd be happy to see 
>  > DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about 
>  > atomicity, and keep it simple for now.
>  > 
>  > We can explore other ideas, such as system-wide defaults, later.
>
> Agreed.
>
> --
> meem
>   

So for the purposes of ARC, lets assume that DLIOCSETPROP is removed the 
case.  Sowmini, if you want to submit updated materials, that would be 
fine, although I don't think it is strictly necessary.

    -- Garrett

From Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com Wed Mar  5 13:29:02 2008
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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:12:50 -0500
From: Sowmini.Varadhan@sun.com
Subject: Re: [brussels-dev] Brussels framework enhancements to get/set	defaults
 [PSARC/2008/175 FastTrack timeout 03/11/2008]
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To: "Garrett D'Amore" <gdamore@sun.com>
Cc: Peter Memishian <Peter.Memishian@sun.com>, gdamore@opensolaris.org,
        psarc-ext@sun.com, brussels-dev@opensolaris.org,
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On (03/05/08 13:05), Garrett D'Amore wrote:
> I *think* we're approaching convergence here.  I'd be happy to see  
> DLIOCSETPROP with DLD_DEFAULT removed from the spec, not worrying about  
> atomicity, and keep it simple for now.

yes, I believe we are all saying the same thing. Please let me
know when you would like me to provide an updated spec. 

--Sowmini


From gdamore@sun.com Thu Mar 13 16:17:59 2008
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:15:19 -0700
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Subject: PSARC 2008/175
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This case was approved yesterday.


