From Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Wed Mar 5 16:40:42 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m260efXo026129 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m260eaTk020389 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:40:40 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA0070T9VPGT00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA007H09VOCH00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:40:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m260ea7N004892 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:40:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXA007019VKPK00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Ali.Bahrami@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:40:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.146.229.18] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXA00JKX9VN5740@mail-amer.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:40:36 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:40:34 -0800 From: Ali Bahrami Subject: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor Sender: Ali.Bahrami@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Status: RO Content-Length: 3508 I am sponsoring the following self-reviewed case for myself. I believe it qualifies for self review: The changes have limited scope, are similar to existing features, and preserve full backward compatibility. Release Binding: Patch/Micro '-z target=' ld option: Committed DT_SUNW_LDMACH dynamic tag Committed --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Overview -------- The integration of 6671255 link-editor should support cross linking will extend the Solaris link-editor from being a purely native linker, to a cross linker. This means that a linker running on any Solaris host will be able to link objects for any other supported target system. We see two benefits: - Simplify porting of OpenSolaris to new architectures. The Solaris code makes heavy use of the unique features supported by Solaris link-editor, many of which were developed for just that purpose. Ports of OpenSolaris usually attempt to bootstrap using the GNU ld, which already supports cross linking, but which does not support all the Solaris features we use. The ability to add a new target to the Solaris linker using a non-native host, and then to use that linker to bootstrap the rest of the system is a significant shortcut. - Allows the use of fast/cheap commodity desktop systems to build objects for other systems, be they large expensive systems, or small embedded devices. New ld command option: -z target=XXX ------------------------------------ Traditionally, ld establishes the class (whether the object is 32 or 64-bit) of the object being generated by examining the first ELF object processed from the command line. In the case where an object is being built solely from an archive library or a mapfile, the -64 command line option is available to explicitly override this default. We extend this mechanism to also determine the machine type of the object to produce: - The class and machine type of the resulting object default to those of the first ELF object processed from the command line. - The new '-z target=' command line option can be used to explicitly specify the machine type. Supported target types will be 'sparc', and 'x86'. New ELF Dynamic Section tag: DT_SUNW_LDMACH ------------------------------------------- A cross link-editor has to contend with byte order and alignment issues not encountered by a native link-editor. Errors in the code that handles this can lie latent in a native linker and only cause problems when the linker host and target have different requirements. When debugging linker issues, it will be important to be able to reliably determine the machine type of the linker that produced the object. The link-editor will tag every dynamic object it produces with a DT_SUNW_LDMACH dynamic section entry. DT_SUNW_LDMACH is an integer containing the EM_* ELF machine type code for the linker that produced the object. This information is not used by the runtime linker, and exists purely as documentation. It is easily displayed via dump, elfdump, or elfedit. For example, given a sparc a.out binary built using the Solaris X86 cross linker: % elfdump a.out | grep EM_ e_machine: EM_SPARC32PLUS e_version: EV_CURRENT [27] SUNW_LDMACH 0x3 EM_386 Even in a native linking situation, the presence of SUNW_LDMACH can be informative, as it allows us to determine whether the 32-bit or 64-bit version of the link-editor was employed. From sacadmin Wed Mar 5 16:34:01 2008 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m260Y1WU026120; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ab196087@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m260Y143026116; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:34:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:34:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ali Bahrami Message-Id: <200803060034.m260Y143026116@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: cross link-editor [PSARC/2008/179 Self Review] Status: RO Content-Length: 550 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: cross link-editor 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Ali Bahrami 1.3 Date of This Document: 05 March, 2008 4. Technical Description See the case directory for more detail 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: on 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From John.Plocher@sun.com Wed Mar 5 20:20:38 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m264KcvK002242 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m264Kcf7025765 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA00803K2EY000@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA00BM6K2DU1D0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m264Kb5x004076 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXA00C01JWGJ600@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXA00DX4K2CBF90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:20:36 -0800 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Ali Bahrami Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47CF7114.3000000@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) Status: RO Content-Length: 225 Ali Bahrami wrote: > The link-editor will tag every dynamic object it produces with a > DT_SUNW_LDMACH dynamic section entry. DT_SUNW_LDMACH is an integer Any chance of updating file(1) to know about this info? -John From gdamore@sun.com Wed Mar 5 20:38:33 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m264cX6l002349 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m264cVKe024754 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXA00B09KW80600@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXA009IUKW7JZ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m264cVUh009940 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXA00801KUNOE00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXA002STKW66BC0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:38:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:36:18 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Ali Bahrami Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 3879 Can I just say, "yay". :-) Now if only we could get cross-compilation working.... -- Garrett Ali Bahrami wrote: > I am sponsoring the following self-reviewed case for myself. > > I believe it qualifies for self review: The changes have limited > scope, are similar to existing features, and preserve full backward > compatibility. > > Release Binding: Patch/Micro > '-z target=' ld option: Committed > DT_SUNW_LDMACH dynamic tag Committed > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Overview > -------- > > The integration of > > 6671255 link-editor should support cross linking > > will extend the Solaris link-editor from being a purely native > linker, to a cross linker. This means that a linker running > on any Solaris host will be able to link objects for any other > supported target system. We see two benefits: > > - Simplify porting of OpenSolaris to new architectures. > > The Solaris code makes heavy use of the unique features > supported by Solaris link-editor, many of which were > developed for just that purpose. Ports of OpenSolaris > usually attempt to bootstrap using the GNU ld, which > already supports cross linking, but which does not support > all the Solaris features we use. The ability to add a new > target to the Solaris linker using a non-native host, and then > to use that linker to bootstrap the rest of the system is > a significant shortcut. > > - Allows the use of fast/cheap commodity desktop systems to > build objects for other systems, be they large expensive > systems, or small embedded devices. > > > > New ld command option: -z target=XXX > ------------------------------------ > > Traditionally, ld establishes the class (whether the object is 32 > or 64-bit) of the object being generated by examining the first ELF > object processed from the command line. In the case where an object > is being built solely from an archive library or a mapfile, the -64 > command line option is available to explicitly override this default. > We extend this mechanism to also determine the machine type of the > object to produce: > > - The class and machine type of the resulting object > default to those of the first ELF object processed > from the command line. > > - The new '-z target=' command line option can be > used to explicitly specify the machine type. > Supported target types will be 'sparc', and 'x86'. > > > > New ELF Dynamic Section tag: DT_SUNW_LDMACH > ------------------------------------------- > > A cross link-editor has to contend with byte order and alignment > issues not encountered by a native link-editor. Errors in the code > that handles this can lie latent in a native linker and only cause > problems when the linker host and target have different requirements. > When debugging linker issues, it will be important to be able to > reliably determine the machine type of the linker that produced > the object. > > The link-editor will tag every dynamic object it produces with a > DT_SUNW_LDMACH dynamic section entry. DT_SUNW_LDMACH is an integer > containing the EM_* ELF machine type code for the linker that produced > the object. This information is not used by the runtime linker, and > exists purely as documentation. It is easily displayed via dump, > elfdump, or elfedit. For example, given a sparc a.out binary > built using the Solaris X86 cross linker: > > % elfdump a.out | grep EM_ > e_machine: EM_SPARC32PLUS e_version: EV_CURRENT > [27] SUNW_LDMACH 0x3 EM_386 > > Even in a native linking situation, the presence of SUNW_LDMACH > can be informative, as it allows us to determine whether the 32-bit > or 64-bit version of the link-editor was employed. From Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Thu Mar 6 10:21:01 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26IL01d027673 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:21:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26IKxFb028439 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 18:20:59 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB00M0PMYYSL00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB00IGXMYYUK90@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m26IKw6S013549 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:20:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXB00C01MN9EM00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Ali.Bahrami@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.146.229.167] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXB00CBBMYQ5KC0@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:20:50 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:20:48 -0800 From: Ali Bahrami Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> Sender: Ali.Bahrami@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Status: RO Content-Length: 1836 Several questions have come in publicly and privately regarding cross compiling, whether our compilers support cross compilation, and whether I've made any attempt to cross build ON. Let me fill in some of those details. A cross link-editor is just one part of the larger build picture. It is a significant step, but there is much left to do. For example, to cross build an ON nightly build, we will need cross-capable: - compilers, assemblers, and any related tool chain components - Related build tools (mcs?) - ctfconvert - makefiles will probably need adjustment - elfsign Some of these are hard, others easy, but clearly there's work left to do. And no doubt there are 5-10 additional things that I'm not thinking of at the moment. As much as I'd love to use my fast amd64 desktop box to do my nightly sparc builds, it's not something that will happen over night. The compiler/assembler is the biggest remaining piece of the puzzle. gcc can be built as a cross compiler, but as far as I know, the standard Sun Studio compilers are native-only. I am aware of one cross compilation project going on within our compiler group, and I know there is wider interest in the subject, so it is certainly possible that they might move in that direction now that there is a linker to use. This is a business decision they need to make. My primary focus in turning ld into a cross link-editor has therefore been to establish the internal framework for cross-support, and to ensure that native operation doesn't suffer. Used as a cross linker: - I've built small cross programs manually, but using two terminal windows (one x86, the other sparc): Compile in one, link in the other, return to the first to run the result. - The cross link-editor prototype was used in the cross compilation project I mentioned above. - Ali From Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Thu Mar 6 10:27:50 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26IRn9R027936 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26IRaDs003045 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 7 Mar 2008 02:27:48 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB00N39NAC0E00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:27:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB00IDBNA9UV80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m26IRj9x009979 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:27:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXB00001LKA9700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Ali.Bahrami@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.146.229.167] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXB00AO9NA6VZ10@mail-amer.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:27:43 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:27:40 -0800 From: Ali Bahrami Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47CF7114.3000000@Sun.Com> Sender: Ali.Bahrami@sun.com To: John Plocher Cc: psarc-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D0379C.3070902@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF7114.3000000@Sun.Com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Status: RO Content-Length: 743 John Plocher wrote: > Ali Bahrami wrote: >> The link-editor will tag every dynamic object it produces with a >> DT_SUNW_LDMACH dynamic section entry. DT_SUNW_LDMACH is an integer > > > Any chance of updating file(1) to know about this info? > > -John > My feeling is that this wouldn't be the right thing. In principle, a cross compiled object should be identical to the same object built natively, and isn't a primary attribute in same way that the information displayed by 'file' is. DT_SUNW_LDMACH is really diagnostic information, of interest only when the compiler/linker have done something wrong and we're trying to root cause the issue. elfdump or elfedit are the best tools for getting that this sort of information. - Ali From John.Plocher@sun.com Thu Mar 6 11:00:33 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26J0XjC029095 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26J0WTw019340 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB0051XOSVYG00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB0055UOSJYM00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m26J0F3S022770 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXB00H01N7RRM00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp668.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.146.226.219]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXB00AWUOR9Y7D0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:59:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:59:33 -0800 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D0379C.3070902@Sun.COM> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Ali Bahrami Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D03F15.3080203@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF7114.3000000@Sun.Com> <47D0379C.3070902@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) Status: RO Content-Length: 722 Ali Bahrami wrote: > My feeling is that this wouldn't be the right thing. In principle, > a cross compiled object should be identical to the same object built > natively, and isn't a primary attribute in same way that the information > displayed by 'file' is. If I'm crosscompiling a distro for a set of architectures, I'm likely to have object files for each: ./foo.c ./obj-x86/foo.o ./obj-x86/foo ./obj-sparc/foo.o ./obj-sparc/foo In this case, the file command tells me some info; the question is if it is sufficient for simple makefile sanity checking (did I manage to build the right mix of stuff?) I'm happy with whatever path you take - I just wanted to check to see if there was value there... -John From gdamore@sun.com Thu Mar 6 11:06:22 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26J6M82029268 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:06:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26J6Cem018422 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:06:21 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB0060FP2IIK00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB00517P2IYM20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m26J6HbJ024587 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXB00A01NO9YU00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:06:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXB00ABSP0FY7H0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:05:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:02:44 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Ali Bahrami Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 3010 Ali, Thanks for the clarification and your comments, not to mention your efforts here! I certainly hope the compiler group will pick up this particular torch. The utility of being able to cross-compile just seems too compelling to ignore. (Heck, they'd probably like to be able to cross-compile their own tool chain -- I gotta think that waiting around for SPARC builds when much faster or cheaper x86 hardware is readily obtainable is something that they'd like to avoid. Given that ability, and source code for the compilers themselves (/me wishful thinking?) it becomes a lot easier to start considering some of the different machine ports that have eluded us to date -- MIPS, ARM, etc. (and the existing PowerPC and S/390 ports probably get a big benefit as well.) Self-hosting is a huge barrier to entry in contemplating a port to a new machine, and the lack of such a barrier is one of the main reasons that both Linux and NetBSD have been ported to so many different and interesting architectures. -- Garrett Ali Bahrami wrote: > Several questions have come in publicly and privately regarding > cross compiling, whether our compilers support cross compilation, > and whether I've made any attempt to cross build ON. Let me fill > in some of those details. > > A cross link-editor is just one part of the larger build picture. It > is a significant step, but there is much left to do. For example, to > cross build an ON nightly build, we will need cross-capable: > > - compilers, assemblers, and any related tool chain components > - Related build tools (mcs?) > - ctfconvert > - makefiles will probably need adjustment > - elfsign > > Some of these are hard, others easy, but clearly there's work left to do. > And no doubt there are 5-10 additional things that I'm not thinking of at > the moment. As much as I'd love to use my fast amd64 desktop box to do my > nightly sparc builds, it's not something that will happen over night. > > The compiler/assembler is the biggest remaining piece of the puzzle. > gcc can be built as a cross compiler, but as far as I know, the standard > Sun Studio compilers are native-only. I am aware of one cross > compilation project > going on within our compiler group, and I know there is wider interest in > the subject, so it is certainly possible that they might move in that > direction > now that there is a linker to use. This is a business decision they > need to > make. > > My primary focus in turning ld into a cross link-editor has therefore > been to establish the internal framework for cross-support, and to ensure > that native operation doesn't suffer. Used as a cross linker: > > - I've built small cross programs manually, but using two terminal > windows (one x86, the other sparc): Compile in one, link in the > other, return to the first to run the result. > > - The cross link-editor prototype was used in the cross > compilation project I mentioned above. > - Ali From Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Thu Mar 6 11:37:15 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26JbFtQ029947 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26JbAjd003980 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB0091BQI1F300@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB008RZQI0JP30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m26JbCQ3012408 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:37:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXB00301OLTBK00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Ali.Bahrami@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.146.229.167] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXB00EV5QHEFO10@mail-amer.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:36:51 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:36:49 -0800 From: Ali Bahrami Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D03F15.3080203@Sun.Com> Sender: Ali.Bahrami@sun.com To: John Plocher Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D047D1.4070201@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF7114.3000000@Sun.Com> <47D0379C.3070902@Sun.COM> <47D03F15.3080203@Sun.Com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Status: RO Content-Length: 1735 John Plocher wrote: > Ali Bahrami wrote: >> My feeling is that this wouldn't be the right thing. In principle, >> a cross compiled object should be identical to the same object built >> natively, and isn't a primary attribute in same way that the information >> displayed by 'file' is. > > If I'm crosscompiling a distro for a set of architectures, > I'm likely to have object files for each: > > ./foo.c > ./obj-x86/foo.o > ./obj-x86/foo > ./obj-sparc/foo.o > ./obj-sparc/foo > > In this case, the file command tells me some info; the question > is if it is sufficient for simple makefile sanity checking (did > I manage to build the right mix of stuff?) > > I'm happy with whatever path you take - I just wanted to check > to see if there was value there... > > -John > If you are cross compiling a distro, and you want to verify that the right type of object got built, I think the information from 'file' tells you what you want. The point is to ensure that a certain type of object got built, not to verify where it was built, right? However, if you did want to verify where an object was built, elfedit makes that easy. For example, consider the sparc binary 'foo' that I built recently using my X86 cross linker: % file foo foo: ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC32PLUS Version 1, V8+ Required, dynamically linked, not stripped % LDMACH=`elfedit -r -osimple -e 'dyn:sunw_ldmach' foo` % echo $LDMACH EM_386 In fact, elfedit makes parsing that 'file' output easier too: % MACH=`elfedit -r -osimple -e 'ehdr:e_machine' foo` % echo $MACH EM_SPARC32PLUS which easier to script against than the output from 'file'. Let me know if this doesn't address your question. Thanks... - Ali From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 6 12:25:48 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26KPlT1003391 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26KPgQX023502; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:25:45 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB00D0DSQVZ500@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB00BRCSQVNB30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m26KPg1r100670; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:25:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:23:26 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Ali Bahrami , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1281 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > Ali, > > Thanks for the clarification and your comments, not to mention your > efforts here! > > I certainly hope the compiler group will pick up this particular > torch. The utility of being able to cross-compile just seems too > compelling to ignore. (Heck, they'd probably like to be able to > cross-compile their own tool chain -- I gotta think that waiting > around for SPARC builds when much faster or cheaper x86 hardware is > readily obtainable is something that they'd like to avoid. All I can say is "don't hold your breath". I first picked up "this particular torch" in around 1990. I suspect that others picked it up before then. The compiler group had always responded, "not worth the test matrix". It also seems that we were the major requestors - it seems that our ISVs didn't trust cross-compiling (when it comes to final builds, would we?). Maybe something has changed, but I don't suspect anything has. When I first made this request, it was because we wanted to do the lame x86 builds on the wizzy SPARC machines. :-) At that time, even "lame" x86 machines were $4000. The now much lower cost makes having two machines even more attractive. I'd find other windmills to tilt at. Just my historical $.02. - jek3 From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 6 12:27:29 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26KRSIQ003747 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26KRQ4r019132; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB0041FSTQIP00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB002SQSTQZF20@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m26KRPqm100837; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:27:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:25:09 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Ali Bahrami , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D05325.80608@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 681 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > Ali, > > Thanks for the clarification and your comments, not to mention your > efforts here! > > I certainly hope the compiler group will pick up this particular > torch. The utility of being able to cross-compile just seems too > compelling to ignore. (Heck, they'd probably like to be able to > cross-compile their own tool chain -- I gotta think that waiting > around for SPARC builds when much faster or cheaper x86 hardware is > readily obtainable is something that they'd like to avoid. Maybe we should just move all of our C code to Java... Then we wouldn't even have to do multiple compilations. Did I *really* say that? :-) - jek3 From gdamore@sun.com Thu Mar 6 12:46:48 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26KklRL005199 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26Kkj7N024789 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB00G1JTPYCU00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB00BVDTPYMS50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m26KkjT9005528 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXB00901TN8LR00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXB00MVETPOVD30@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:46:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:44:22 -0800 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D05325.80608@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: Ali Bahrami , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D057A6.4030206@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D05325.80608@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 1520 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> >> Ali, >> >> Thanks for the clarification and your comments, not to mention your >> efforts here! >> >> I certainly hope the compiler group will pick up this particular >> torch. The utility of being able to cross-compile just seems too >> compelling to ignore. (Heck, they'd probably like to be able to >> cross-compile their own tool chain -- I gotta think that waiting >> around for SPARC builds when much faster or cheaper x86 hardware is >> readily obtainable is something that they'd like to avoid. > Maybe we should just move all of our C code to Java... Then we > wouldn't even have to do multiple compilations. > > Did I *really* say that? :-) Yeah, you did. :-) While I'm *not* holding my breath, I am actually almost more interested in what such an effort could do to excite interest in Solaris for other embedded markets. There are markets where products like Linux are unattractive because of the viral licensing, and where the *BSD's simply lack technical superiority that we have in Solaris. HOWEVER, the lack of support for other than x86/sparc really does limit market penetration into some of the most rapidly growing markets. Yes, I still am interested in a MIPS (or ARM) port. :-) Cross-tools lowers the cost of entry into those markets by a *bunch*. (Yeah, I know we can use gcc, gcc has its own limitations, or maybe its our source code that has limitations, by being dependent on gcc.) -- Garrett > > - jek3 > From John.Plocher@sun.com Thu Mar 6 12:48:09 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m26Km8YJ005441 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m26Km7XQ000261 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 7 Mar 2008 04:48:08 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXB00J05TS6ES00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXB0039ETS6PKC0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m26Km5GD005635 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXB00901TN8LR00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp668.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.146.226.219]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXB00MAXTR2VD40@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:47:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:47:25 -0800 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D047D1.4070201@Sun.COM> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Ali Bahrami Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47D0585D.5040407@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF7114.3000000@Sun.Com> <47D0379C.3070902@Sun.COM> <47D03F15.3080203@Sun.Com> <47D047D1.4070201@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) Status: RO Content-Length: 246 Ali Bahrami wrote: > John Plocher wrote: >> I'm happy with whatever path you take - I just wanted to check > Let me know if this doesn't address your question. Thanks... As I said, I'm happy; thanks for the additional clarification. -John From casper@holland.sun.com Fri Mar 7 00:43:53 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m278hqml026323 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2008 00:43:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m278hdvQ027824; Fri, 7 Mar 2008 16:43:48 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXC00101QWYXH00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:43:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.225]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXC007RAQWW1P80@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:43:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m278hhka012280; Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:43:43 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:43:43 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Ali Bahrami , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <200803070843.m278hhka012280@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 205 >When I first made this request, it was because we wanted to do the lame >x86 builds on the wizzy SPARC machines. :-) But Sun did sell cross compilers at some point (in the m68k to SPARC era) Casper From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Tue Mar 11 07:27:52 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2BERqm5020599 for ; 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Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:27:43 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay43i.sun.com (relay43i.sun.com [192.5.209.74]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-140356; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:26:00 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw2-out.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.28] [153.96.1.28]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4367870; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:26:00 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw2-out.fraunhofer.de[host mailgw26] (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2BEMIUX024514; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:22:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2BEMEpn024285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:22:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2BEODe7011724; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:24:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:24:13 +0100 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:24:13 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> To: jek3@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 0.437sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2008 14:24:13.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[94BC1E10:01C88383] Status: RO Content-Length: 1018 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > All I can say is "don't hold your breath". I first picked up "this > particular torch" in around 1990. I suspect that others picked it up > before then. The compiler group had always responded, "not worth the > test matrix". It also seems that we were the major requestors - it > seems that our ISVs didn't trust cross-compiling (when it comes to final > builds, would we?). > Maybe something has changed, but I don't suspect anything has. The problem with crosss compilations is that it does not really work if the software uses dynamic autoconfiguration for portability. You would first need to hand craft _all_ autoconfiguration results for the target platform. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From gdamore@sun.com Tue Mar 11 07:52:22 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2BEqMYq022191 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2BEqLRt024871 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXK00C57MN9B200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXK00IT7MMVISE0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2BEq6hi026730 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JXK00C01M83W000@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JXK00FV3MMM9J20@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:49:31 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Joerg Schilling Cc: jek3@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <47D69BFB.4060807@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 1320 Joerg Schilling wrote: > Joseph Kowalski wrote: > > >> All I can say is "don't hold your breath". I first picked up "this >> particular torch" in around 1990. I suspect that others picked it up >> before then. The compiler group had always responded, "not worth the >> test matrix". It also seems that we were the major requestors - it >> seems that our ISVs didn't trust cross-compiling (when it comes to final >> builds, would we?). >> Maybe something has changed, but I don't suspect anything has. >> > > The problem with crosss compilations is that it does not really work if the > software uses dynamic autoconfiguration for portability. > > You would first need to hand craft _all_ autoconfiguration results for the > target platform. > Most of ON is not autoconfigured. The only exceptions I can think of would likely be related to 3rd party software (perl?) Certainly NetBSD has found solutions to this problem. :-) I wouldn't mind putting some of the 3rd party software that depends on such autoconfiguration out of ON. I tend to believe that we have a bunch of stuff in ON, that probably should live in another consolidation. (Again, perl comes to mind... though I'm sure others have different, and perhaps equally, or more so, valid opinions.) -- Garrett From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Tue Mar 11 07:54:51 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2BEsp0w022465 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2BEslhJ010824; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXK0011NMRDQD00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXK00JFUMRCMM70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m2BEsmYN009322; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:54:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m2BEsmU5009321; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:54:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:54:48 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> To: Joerg Schilling Cc: jek3@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Mail-followup-to: Joerg Schilling , jek3@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <20080311145447.GZ986@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 1282 On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 03:24:13PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Joseph Kowalski wrote: > > > All I can say is "don't hold your breath". I first picked up "this > > particular torch" in around 1990. I suspect that others picked it up > > before then. The compiler group had always responded, "not worth the > > test matrix". It also seems that we were the major requestors - it > > seems that our ISVs didn't trust cross-compiling (when it comes to final > > builds, would we?). > > Maybe something has changed, but I don't suspect anything has. > > The problem with crosss compilations is that it does not really work if the > software uses dynamic autoconfiguration for portability. That doesn't make cross-compilation useless. > You would first need to hand craft _all_ autoconfiguration results for the > target platform. Not in the ON consolidation, for example, but yes in SFW (which really means that SFW might well never cross-build). This case will help third parties who want to cross-build using GCC but cross-link with the Solaris linker. So there are worthy use cases, even though they won't generalize to all developers. If we can also leverage this in any OpenSolaris consolidations, all the better, and if not, oh well. Nico -- From jek3@sun.com Tue Mar 11 13:27:42 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2BKRfBX009156 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2BKROIY008113; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:27:36 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXL00G0L25ZFG00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXL00BDD25ZW590@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2BKRXR5150283; Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:25:09 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> To: Joerg Schilling Cc: gdamore@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <47D6EAA5.7000205@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 984 Joerg Schilling wrote: > Joseph Kowalski wrote: > > >> All I can say is "don't hold your breath". I first picked up "this >> particular torch" in around 1990. I suspect that others picked it up >> before then. The compiler group had always responded, "not worth the >> test matrix". It also seems that we were the major requestors - it >> seems that our ISVs didn't trust cross-compiling (when it comes to final >> builds, would we?). >> Maybe something has changed, but I don't suspect anything has. >> > > The problem with crosss compilations is that it does not really work if the > software uses dynamic autoconfiguration for portability. > > You would first need to hand craft _all_ autoconfiguration results for the > target platform. > > Jörg > Speaking of style, its rather interesting to not make it clear that you are agreeing with me, or adding another supporting fact. Anyway, yes, autoconfiguration needs to be considered. - jek3 From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Wed Mar 12 03:25:50 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2CAPn73007028 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CAPgqi019531; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:25:44 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXM00E074YU5O00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXM001QF4YTZKD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2CAP4GM019095; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:25:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.sun.com ([160.41.221.233] [160.41.221.233]) by relay41i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-92279; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:25:41 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay42i.sun.com (relay42i.sun.com [192.5.209.72]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2719287; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:25:40 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw11.noc.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.28] [153.96.1.28]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-8333942; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:25:39 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw11.noc.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw11.noc.fraunhofer.de (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2CAOlTd026264; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:24:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw11.noc.fraunhofer.de (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2CAOhFT026205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:24:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2CAOhIA008278; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:24:43 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:24:43 +0100 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:24:43 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <20080311145447.GZ986@Sun.COM> To: Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, jek3@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <47d7af6b.2utWjQ5FQd/jCjAP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.829sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <20080311145447.GZ986@Sun.COM> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2008 10:24:43.0606 (UTC) FILETIME=[49C35F60:01C8842B] Status: RO Content-Length: 2217 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 03:24:13PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote: > > The problem with crosss compilations is that it does not really work if the > > software uses dynamic autoconfiguration for portability. > > That doesn't make cross-compilation useless. I don't like to say this, but it makes cross compilation harder than people may expect. Many people believe that cross compilation is easy because the GNU autoconf documentation incorrectly claims this is something that works by default. In fact, GNU autoconf provides some basic fallback definitions that apply for Linux and that may allow to compile a piece of software on a different Linux platform. If you like or need to go beyond this, you start hand crafting the "autoconf results". > > You would first need to hand craft _all_ autoconfiguration results for the > > target platform. > > Not in the ON consolidation, for example, but yes in SFW (which really > means that SFW might well never cross-build). This is no longer true for ON since ON contains ksh93 and if more software that uses dynamic configuration is added to ON, things become even harder. Note that you cannot create a non-portable (static) variants from ksh93, star, cdrtools, ... for Solaris because nobody would pay for this unneeded fork. In order to avoid confusion: ksh93 creates static include files for the ISAs that are already supported in native compile mode. New platforms need new include files. > This case will help third parties who want to cross-build using GCC but > cross-link with the Solaris linker. So there are worthy use cases, even > though they won't generalize to all developers. If we can also leverage > this in any OpenSolaris consolidations, all the better, and if not, oh > well. It is worth to do (in special as the GNU ld also does it) but the pitfalls should be documented. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Wed Mar 12 03:47:21 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2CAlK3Z007170 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CAlBRP023228; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:47:14 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXM00H015YNZ100@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXM00F2I5YNTL20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay21.sun.com (ip192-12-251-24.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.24]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2CAfsL7021333; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:47:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms23es.sun.com ([150.143.232.54] [150.143.232.54]) by relay21i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-454169; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:47:10 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay21.sun.com (relay21.sun.com [192.12.251.24]) by mms23es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-843645; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:47:09 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw12.noc.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.28] [153.96.1.28]) by relay21i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2995095; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:47:08 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw12.noc.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw12.noc.fraunhofer.de (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2CAjjaB024242; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:45:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw12.noc.fraunhofer.de (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2CAjhBM024217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:45:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2CAjhmb009395; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:45:43 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:45:43 +0100 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:45:43 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D69BFB.4060807@sun.com> To: gdamore@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, jek3@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <47d7b457.abU9CT5ZuGieVZeZ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 0.163sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <47D69BFB.4060807@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2008 10:45:43.0631 (UTC) FILETIME=[38CBEDF0:01C8842E] Status: RO Content-Length: 1242 "Garrett D'Amore" wrote: > Most of ON is not autoconfigured. The only exceptions I can think of > would likely be related to 3rd party software (perl?) > > Certainly NetBSD has found solutions to this problem. :-) > > I wouldn't mind putting some of the 3rd party software that depends on > such autoconfiguration out of ON. I tend to believe that we have a > bunch of stuff in ON, that probably should live in another > consolidation. (Again, perl comes to mind... though I'm sure others > have different, and perhaps equally, or more so, valid opinions.) I believe this is off topic and does not belong into PSARC. Perl may not belong into ON, but there is other software (currently from other consolidations) that logically belong into ON. ON should be self-contained and complete enough to be used in GUI-less embedded systems. It should only contain software with a free enough license for embedded usage. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From casper@holland.sun.com Wed Mar 12 03:51:01 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2CAp0ta007189 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CAoWwq025009; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:50:56 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXM0050964VWR00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.225]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXM005SE64SEV00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CAoorG010334; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:50:50 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:50:50 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47d7af6b.2utWjQ5FQd/jCjAP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Cc: Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, jek3@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <200803121050.m2CAoorG010334@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <20080311145447.GZ986@Sun.COM> <47d7af6b.2utWjQ5FQd/jCjAP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Status: RO Content-Length: 1214 >Nicolas Williams wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 03:24:13PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote: > >> > The problem with crosss compilations is that it does not really work if the >> > software uses dynamic autoconfiguration for portability. >> >> That doesn't make cross-compilation useless. > >I don't like to say this, but it makes cross compilation harder than people may >expect. Many people believe that cross compilation is easy because the GNU >autoconf documentation incorrectly claims this is something that works by >default. In fact, GNU autoconf provides some basic fallback definitions that >apply for Linux and that may allow to compile a piece of software on a different >Linux platform. If you like or need to go beyond this, you start hand crafting >the "autoconf results". For Solaris we generally do not use auto configuration; this includes even things like perl. Certainly the bits which are used initial bringup do not depend on auto configuration; that may change if ksh93 becomes more important but if cross-compiling for architecture ports becomes a requirement for ON, then something will have to give. But that's neither here nor this case. Casper From alan.coopersmith@sun.com Wed Mar 12 07:41:46 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2CEfkd6013241 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CEffBK012279; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:41:42 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXM00D07GTHPH00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.154.35]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXM005IFGTDEYC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (vpn-129-150-19-67.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.19.67]) by sfbaymail1sca.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CEfXlL021390; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:41:27 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <200803121050.m2CAoorG010334@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> To: Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: Joerg Schilling , Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, jek3@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <47D7EB97.4000801@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <20080311145447.GZ986@Sun.COM> <47d7af6b.2utWjQ5FQd/jCjAP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <200803121050.m2CAoorG010334@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060602) Status: RO Content-Length: 406 Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote: > For Solaris we generally do not use auto configuration; this includes even > things like perl. s/Solaris/ON/ - there's a lot of autoconfiguration in the rest of Solaris - X, JDS, SFW - probably more software is autoconfigured there than delivered by all of ON. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From casper@holland.sun.com Wed Mar 12 07:53:29 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2CErSul013524 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CEr7tj002538; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:53:24 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JXM00D03HCYZM00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.225]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JXM00588HCWELE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2CErHVZ015614; Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:53:17 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:53:17 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC/2008/179 cross link-editor In-reply-to: <47D7EB97.4000801@sun.com> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: Joerg Schilling , Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, jek3@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Ali.Bahrami@sun.com Message-id: <200803121453.m2CErHVZ015614@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47CF3D82.3020107@Sun.COM> <47CF74C2.1050702@sun.com> <47D03600.9060208@Sun.COM> <47D03FD4.7060900@sun.com> <47D052BE.9050402@sun.com> <47d6960d.UKkWsObupM/iFlch%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <20080311145447.GZ986@Sun.COM> <47d7af6b.2utWjQ5FQd/jCjAP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <200803121050.m2CAoorG010334@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> <47D7EB97.4000801@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 515 >Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote: >> For Solaris we generally do not use auto configuration; this includes even >> things like perl. > >s/Solaris/ON/ - there's a lot of autoconfiguration in the rest of Solaris - >X, JDS, SFW - probably more software is autoconfigured there than delivered >by all of ON. For bootstrapping an "Emerging Platform", there's no need to even attempt to compile everything, right? Cross-compile that what you minimally need to start running the rest; that may even be less than ON. Casper