From sacadmin Mon Mar 24 03:32:32 2008 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2OAWWBG021977; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xc149992@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m2OAWWYq021973; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:32:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Xiang-Dong Frank Che Message-Id: <200803241032.m2OAWWYq021973@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com Subject: Integrate unison into Solaris [PSARC/2008/212 FastTrack timeout 03/31/2008] Status: RO Content-Length: 560 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.64 07/13/07 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Integrate unison into Solaris 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Bill Yan 1.3 Date of This Document: 24 March, 2008 4. Technical Description See the case directory for more detail 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: SFW 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From Frank.Che@sun.com Mon Mar 24 04:09:42 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2OB9guj023641 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 04:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2OB9eto005300 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:09:41 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY800F0FF00AL00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 04:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY8009SHEZZCX30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 04:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2OB9iQK018429 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:09:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JY800J01EXBZM00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:09:19 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JY800BFREZDMNA5@mail-apac.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:09:14 +0800 (SGT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:10:10 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: yan xue yang Message-id: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 3986 I'm sponsoring this fast-track case for Bill Yan. This case is to integrate an open source file synchronizer 'unison' into Solaris. A draft man page of this tool was put in the case directory. The requested binding is patch/micro. The timer is set to 03/31/2008. -Frank 4. Technical Description The intent of this case is to integrate an open source file synchronizer 'unison' into Solaris OS. 4.1 Unison Introduction Unison is a cross-platform file-synchronization tool [1]. It allows two replicas of a collection of files and directories to be stored on different hosts (or different disks on the same host), modified separately, and then brought up to date by propagating the changes in each replica to the other. [2] 4.2 Security concerns: Security becomes a concern when synchronizing files across network. Unison provides two methods for communicating between the client and the server: * Remote shell method: To use this method, you must have some way of invoking remote commands on the server from the client's command line, using a facility such as ssh. This method is more convenient and also more secure (especially if you use ssh). * Socket method: This method requires only that you can get TCP packets from the client to the server and back. The socket method is insecure: not only are the texts of your changes transmitted over the network in unprotected form, it is also possible for anyone in the network to connect to the server process and read out the contents of your file system! The socket method is provided only for expert users with specific needs; everyone else should use the remote shell (ssh) method. 4.3 Limitations: There are a few limitations in current version of Unison [2]: 4.3.1 In the interests of speed, the update detection algorithm may (depending on which OS architecture that you run Unison on) actually use an approximation. 4.3.2 When synchronize between a single-user file system and a shared Unix server, by default, Unison will synchronize permissions verbatim, which may leave group-writable files on the server that could be written over by a lot of people. 4.3.3 The graphical user interface of Unison is single-threaded. 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. 4.3.5 Renaming directories that containing "ignore"d files may result in loss of data. 4.5 Interfaces 4.5.1 Imported Interfaces +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | NAME | STABILITY LABEL | DESCRIPTION | +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ | libsocket | Committed | PSARC/1995/014 | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ 4.5.2 Exported Interfaces +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | NAME | PROPOSED | DESCRIPTION | | | STABILITY LABEL | | +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ | SUNWunison | Uncommitted | Unison package | |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| | /usr/bin/unison | Committed | Unison executable | |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| | ~/.unison/default.prf | Uncommitted | Unison default profile | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ 4.6 Release binding Release binding requested: patch/micro. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4 Steering Committee Requested Information 6.4.1 Consolidation C-team Name: SFW 6.5 ARC review type: Fast Track 6.6 ARC exposure: open Footnotes: ---------- [1] http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison [2] See man page of Unison for more details. From gdamore@sun.com Mon Mar 24 09:38:36 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2OGca6J001952 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2OGcQTB023633 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:38:35 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY80060VU8AUO00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY800KREU89H7A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2OGcXCG002549 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JY800C01TUWND00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JY800BMEU84XNC0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:35:20 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Frank Che Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 5894 Frank Che wrote: > > 4.2 Security concerns: > Security becomes a concern when synchronizing files across > network. Unison > provides two methods for communicating between the client and the > server: > > * Remote shell method: To use this method, you must have some way of > invoking remote commands on the server from the client's command > line, > using a facility such as ssh. This method is more convenient and > also more > secure (especially if you use ssh). > > * Socket method: This method requires only that you can get TCP > packets > from the client to the server and back. > The socket method is insecure: not only are the texts of your changes > transmitted over the network in unprotected form, it is also > possible for > anyone in the network to connect to the server process and read > out the > contents of your file system! The socket method is provided only for > expert users with specific needs; everyone else should use the remote > shell (ssh) method. I presume that if there is a server here, it is not enabled by default? Can you confirm, does this project adhere to the Secure By Default rule? If there is a server, how is it administered, if at all? > > 4.3 Limitations: > There are a few limitations in current version of Unison [2]: > > 4.3.1 In the interests of speed, the update detection algorithm may > (depending > on which OS architecture that you run Unison on) actually use an > approximation. This point has me concerned. What are the failure modes here? Will Unison incorrectly detect clobber a file? Will it *fail* to copy a file that has actually changed and should be updated? Heuristics here make me queasy, especially for a system that is intended for possible use in maintaining backups. How will users have this information? > > 4.3.2 When synchronize between a single-user file system and a shared > Unix > server, by default, Unison will synchronize permissions verbatim, > which may > leave group-writable files on the server that could be written over by > a lot of > people. > > 4.3.3 The graphical user interface of Unison is single-threaded. The above two aren't really areas of concern, IMO. > > 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this is that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and storage needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO image, which also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of transferring and storing one 4G image, you are transferring and storing n * 4G. Can this result in previous hard links being busted? Will updates copied from one file on a remote node potentially clobber a hard-linked clone elsewhere? (Put another way, if a file A is hardlinked to file B, and a remote copy of A called C is updated, will the synchronization of A from C by Unison cause any change to B?) > > 4.3.5 Renaming directories that containing "ignore"d files may result > in loss > of data. That's a potentially bad failing. Unintended loss of data is never a good failure mode. It seems (to me at least) that this tool can easily be used in ways which are potentially destructive. (How destructive depends on the answers to the above questions.) While I understand that such a tool can be useful, it has some pretty significant caveats. > > 4.5 Interfaces > > 4.5.1 Imported Interfaces > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | NAME | STABILITY LABEL | DESCRIPTION | > +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ > | libsocket | Committed | PSARC/1995/014 | > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > 4.5.2 Exported Interfaces > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | NAME | PROPOSED | DESCRIPTION | > | | STABILITY LABEL | | > +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ > | SUNWunison | Uncommitted | Unison package | > |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| > | /usr/bin/unison | Committed | Unison executable | > |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| > | ~/.unison/default.prf | Uncommitted | Unison default profile | > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ I probably shouldn't repeat this, but I am again concerned about Committed for an application that seems to have a somewhat limited audience and may itself no longer be actively developed or maintained. (See http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html for that status information.) This is all the more so given the above limitations, which it now seems are unlikely to be resolved given the development status. The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see ARC have some oversight about how things like this are delivered -- this seems ideally suited for an external repo -- readily accessible to users that want it, but not installed by default. Certainly, the value of the "stability" of the path name of an executable seems significantly reduced without some idea of how and whether it will be delivered by default. -- Garrett > > 4.6 Release binding > Release binding requested: patch/micro. > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4 Steering Committee Requested Information > 6.4.1 Consolidation C-team Name: SFW > 6.5 ARC review type: Fast Track > 6.6 ARC exposure: open > > > Footnotes: > ---------- > [1] http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison > [2] See man page of Unison for more details. > > From Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM Mon Mar 24 09:44:56 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2OGitrG002909 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2OGisco025850 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:44:54 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY800J07UIQ2600@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY800DR2UIQZQ90@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2OGinTU026023 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JY800101U9MDA00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from almas.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.106.93]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JY800BOAUIBXNF0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:44:34 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM To: Frank Che Cc: PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, yan xue yang Message-id: <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071203) Status: RO Content-Length: 536 Frank Che wrote: > 4.3.2 When synchronize between a single-user file system and a shared Unix > server, by default, Unison will synchronize permissions verbatim, which may > leave group-writable files on the server that could be written over by a > lot of > people. Are permissions copied correctly when moving files between fully featured file systems? Even if one is NTFS and the other UFS or ZFS? What about ACL's? -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From danek.duvall@sun.com Mon Mar 24 09:55:08 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2OGt7FW003624 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2OGswuO000922 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:55:06 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY800501UZRQZ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY80048PUZR7S80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com (zruty.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.168.40]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2OGt0Jx004861; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zruty.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2OGt0pc014110; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dduvall@localhost) by zruty.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m2OGt0fq014109; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:55:00 -0700 From: Danek Duvall Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> To: Frank Che Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <20080324165500.GP29238@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-27) Status: RO Content-Length: 45 Should this supersede LSARC/2006/222? Danek From Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Mon Mar 24 14:40:23 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2OLeMBQ015359 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2OLeFq9001434; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:40:20 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY900H0F878G800@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY900M2T876N7E0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:40:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.145.161.249] (dhcp-usca22-161-249.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.161.249]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2OLeIs0159675; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:41:02 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Reply-to: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Message-id: <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071203) Status: RO Content-Length: 639 Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. > > That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this > is that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and > storage needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO > image, which also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of > transferring and storing one 4G image, you are transferring and > storing n * 4G. Yea, but who actually does this? The common use of hardlinks went away with AT&T supporting UNIX. Another way to put this is, "if its important to Sun, file the P4/5 bug to have Sun do the fix". - jek3 From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Mon Mar 24 16:01:20 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2ON1Kam019224 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2ON1Igq013573; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY900J01BY6Y000@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY900JU8BY5IF10@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m2ON1HQ7024097; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:01:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m2ON1HZr024096; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:01:17 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:01:17 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Mail-followup-to: Garrett D'Amore , Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 4514 On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 09:35:20AM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > contents of your file system! The socket method is provided only for > > expert users with specific needs; everyone else should use the remote > > shell (ssh) method. > I presume that if there is a server here, it is not enabled by default? > Can you confirm, does this project adhere to the Secure By Default rule? > > If there is a server, how is it administered, if at all? This is important. > >4.3 Limitations: > > There are a few limitations in current version of Unison [2]: > > > >4.3.1 In the interests of speed, the update detection algorithm may > >(depending > >on which OS architecture that you run Unison on) actually use an > >approximation. > > This point has me concerned. What are the failure modes here? Will > Unison incorrectly detect clobber a file? Will it *fail* to copy a file > that has actually changed and should be updated? Heuristics here make > me queasy, especially for a system that is intended for possible use in > maintaining backups. > > How will users have this information? This is less important. The i-team can't be expected to fix shortcomings of Unison. > >4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. > > That's pretty unfortunate. [...] Same comment. > >4.3.5 Renaming directories that containing "ignore"d files may result > >in loss > >of data. > > That's a potentially bad failing. Unintended loss of data is never a > good failure mode. > > It seems (to me at least) that this tool can easily be used in ways > which are potentially destructive. (How destructive depends on the > answers to the above questions.) While I understand that such a tool > can be useful, it has some pretty significant caveats. Same comment. The ARC should want to make sure that Unison's shortcomings are properly documented. The ARC can't expect i-teams to fix the FOSS they are integrating -- only the how it is integrated. My point: we can't pick nits with the FOSS that the i-team can't be expected to fix -- that only slows us all down, and it wastes everyone's time. Ensuring flaws are documented, bugs filed, ... -> sure. Fixing FOSS code -> no. > >4.5.2 Exported Interfaces > > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | NAME | PROPOSED | DESCRIPTION | > > | | STABILITY LABEL | | > > +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ > > | SUNWunison | Uncommitted | Unison package | > > |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| > > | /usr/bin/unison | Committed | Unison executable | > > |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| > > | ~/.unison/default.prf | Uncommitted | Unison default profile | > > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > I probably shouldn't repeat this, but I am again concerned about > Committed for an application that seems to have a somewhat limited > audience and may itself no longer be actively developed or maintained. > (See http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html for that > status information.) This is all the more so given the above > limitations, which it now seems are unlikely to be resolved given the > development status. I agree. Make it Obsolete, make it Uncommitted or Volatile and add a note explaining what changes might be coming, if any. > The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see ARC have some > oversight about how things like this are delivered -- this seems ideally > suited for an external repo -- readily accessible to users that want it, > but not installed by default. Why shouldn't they be installed by default? Noone types "unison" in their shells by accident. Flawed apps can still be popular. The ARC should not be a judge of popularity, much less should it try to keep out popular FOSS on the theory that doing so protects the users. > Certainly, the value of the "stability" of the path name of an > executable seems significantly reduced without some idea of how and > whether it will be delivered by default. But that's only true if one grants your point about not installing things like Unison by default, and even then, if the stability covers things like a program's CLI, or an API, then it has value even when not installed by default. Nico -- From scott.rotondo@sun.com Mon Mar 24 16:31:30 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2ONVT8k020788 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2ONVPJ6014658; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:31:26 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY900307DCD0R00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY900MGGDCBW0A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.108.62] (vinifera.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.62]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2ONVNQO174179; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:31:23 -0700 From: Scott Rotondo Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <47E839CB.6060206@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 1672 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Frank Che wrote: >> >> 4.2 Security concerns: >> Security becomes a concern when synchronizing files across >> network. Unison >> provides two methods for communicating between the client and the >> server: >> >> * Remote shell method: To use this method, you must have some way of >> invoking remote commands on the server from the client's command >> line, >> using a facility such as ssh. This method is more convenient and >> also more >> secure (especially if you use ssh). >> >> * Socket method: This method requires only that you can get TCP >> packets >> from the client to the server and back. >> The socket method is insecure: not only are the texts of your changes >> transmitted over the network in unprotected form, it is also >> possible for >> anyone in the network to connect to the server process and read >> out the >> contents of your file system! The socket method is provided only for >> expert users with specific needs; everyone else should use the remote >> shell (ssh) method. > I presume that if there is a server here, it is not enabled by default? > Can you confirm, does this project adhere to the Secure By Default rule? > > If there is a server, how is it administered, if at all? I hope (and assume) that Solaris will deliver unison so that it can be invoked by a remote shell and not configure the "socket method" server at all. This allows the remote peer to run just for the lifetime of the sync operation, just like scp or rsync. There's not much need for a listening server unless you don't have a remote shell mechanism like ssh. Scott From dwc@spartan.eng.sun.com Mon Mar 24 16:59:49 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2ONxmKM021588 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2ONxiCG027837 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:59:47 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY900M09ENLNM00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY900JT8ENKIH60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2ONxfJ2009952; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m2ONqCMU005511; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dwc@localhost) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m2ONqCkG005510; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:52:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris To: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Cc: Frank.Che@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 1159 >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:41:02 -1000 >From: Joseph Kowalski > >Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. >> >> That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this >> is that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and >> storage needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO >> image, which also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of >> transferring and storing one 4G image, you are transferring and >> storing n * 4G. >Yea, but who actually does this? The common use of hardlinks went away >with AT&T supporting UNIX. Joe, We do it all the time. Have you forgotten that the cp, ln, and mv utilities are linked? There are currently 90 links to /usr/bin/ksh93 on jurassic-x4600. I personally have hard links to several files under my home directory; they are not multi-gigabyte files, but the synchronization issue remain the same no matter how big the files are. - Don > >Another way to put this is, "if its important to Sun, file the P4/5 bug >to have Sun do the fix". This sounds a lot more serious to me than a P4/5 bug... > >- jek3 From Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Mon Mar 24 17:29:19 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P0TJJv021930 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P0TGAP002233; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY90070RG0PG800@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY900KXZG0OKB50@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.145.161.249] (dhcp-usca22-161-249.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.161.249]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2P0T8DM181223; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:29:54 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> To: Don Cragun Cc: Frank.Che@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Reply-to: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Message-id: <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071203) Status: RO Content-Length: 2307 OK, I've gotten a couple of private messages about this. I was clearly unclear in what I said. My issue is that if this is "good enough" for the community (of Linux users), this is good enough to allow this to be integrated into Solaris. Sure, we have no idea how much this will bother Solaris users. Just the same, we have little idea about how much this already bothers Linux users. I am fairly sure that the pain (what ever it is) is about the same for both classes. I'll retract my statement that this is a P4 or P5 bug. Actually, its less than that, because it does conform to its specification, making this into an RFE. If this was a Sun funded project, we as the ARC would certainly question the decision to not support hardlinks. We might even add that as a TCR. However, this is the importation of FOSS. They already made the decision as to if hardlinks should be supported. We just have to live with that choice. We live in a different world than we are accustomed to living in. - jek3 Don Cragun wrote: >> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:41:02 -1000 >> From: Joseph Kowalski >> >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> >>>> 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. >>>> >>> That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this >>> is that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and >>> storage needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO >>> image, which also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of >>> transferring and storing one 4G image, you are transferring and >>> storing n * 4G. >>> >> Yea, but who actually does this? The common use of hardlinks went away >> with AT&T supporting UNIX. >> > > Joe, > We do it all the time. Have you forgotten that the cp, ln, and mv > utilities are linked? There are currently 90 links to /usr/bin/ksh93 > on jurassic-x4600. I personally have hard links to several files under > my home directory; they are not multi-gigabyte files, but the > synchronization issue remain the same no matter how big the files are. > > - Don > > >> Another way to put this is, "if its important to Sun, file the P4/5 bug >> to have Sun do the fix". >> > > This sounds a lot more serious to me than a P4/5 bug... > > >> - jek3 >> From John.Plocher@sun.com Mon Mar 24 18:24:14 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P1ODg7023971 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P1O7ZZ024214; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:24:10 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JY90030DIK87U00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JY9002WBIK7H820@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2P1O71m028122; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JY900201IFMWC00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JY900EABIK55FC0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:24:02 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47E85432.1030707@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) Status: RO Content-Length: 595 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > My issue is that if this is "good enough" for the community (of Linux > users), this is good enough to allow this to be integrated into > Solaris. Uhmmmmm..... If it is good enuf for Linux, it most certainly should be available for use on (Open)Solaris, but that is not sufficient in and of itself to be integrated into (Open)Solaris. The difference, in my mind, is whether or not these things should be going into the "core" repository (and thus are things that the core stuff can depend on) -vs- things in the "other stuff that is not core" repository. -John From Joep.Vesseur@sun.com Tue Mar 25 01:48:19 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P8mIfd004059 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P8mBxP007636 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:48:17 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00M0T34EB300@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.225]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00LOL34CYZ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunnl.Holland.Sun.COM (sunnl.Holland.Sun.COM [129.159.237.90]) by dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P8m8AV012543; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:48:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.16.117.32] (enigma.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.32]) by sunnl.Holland.Sun.COM (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P8m8O7007644; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:48:08 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:48:08 +0100 From: Joep Vesseur Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Frank.Che@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <47E8BC48.6000407@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Status: RO Content-Length: 246 As Unison is written in Occam, does this case propose to include some form of Occam compiler as well? The occaml compiler normally advertised to compile Unison with is distributed under the Q-license which might be a novum for OpenSolaris. Joep From Frank.Che@sun.com Tue Mar 25 02:00:08 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P9081K004539 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P903Kp041219 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:00:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0041L3O5JP00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA003JS3O3WV10@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2P90RXt006149 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:00:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JYA003013J4V400@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:59:47 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYA00B9U3MUMFT1@mail-apac.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:59:19 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:00:14 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E8BC48.6000407@Sun.COM> Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: Joep Vesseur Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <47E8BF1E.6050205@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47E8BC48.6000407@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 345 No. Only a binary file and a man page will be delivered. Frank. Joep Vesseur wrote: >As Unison is written in Occam, does this case propose to include some >form of Occam compiler as well? The occaml compiler normally advertised to >compile Unison with is distributed under the Q-license which might be >a novum for OpenSolaris. > >Joep > > From sacadmin Tue Mar 25 02:10:08 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P9A7fE005694 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P9A3VZ015824 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-members@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:10:06 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0041R44SUY00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-members@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-members@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA003QS44PWR10@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for psarc-members@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-members@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2P9AAoC018085 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:10:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JYA0030140N1800@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for psarc-members@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-members@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:09:57 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYA0062744LKKYX@mail-apac.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:09:57 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:10:41 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080324165500.GP29238@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: Danek Duvall Cc: psarc-members@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <47E8C191.1070201@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <20080324165500.GP29238@zruty.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 301 They cover the same area. The proposal of 2006/222 seems quite big, just it's not active now, and the submitter has left Sun. The background of this case (2008/212) is open source package porting for OpenSolaris. Frank. Danek Duvall wrote: >Should this supersede LSARC/2006/222? > >Danek > > From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Tue Mar 25 02:18:04 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P9I39G005867 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P9I0qf016064 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:18:02 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA005014I16900@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.102]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA003Q24HZWU20@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P9Hx4K027335 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:17:59 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2P9VR35004498 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:31:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYA00NQQ4HT2990@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:17:54 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:15:51 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47E8C2C7.4040103@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 7192 Hi Garrett, My comments are inlines. Thanks Regards, Bill Garrett D'Amore ÒÑдÈë: > Frank Che wrote: > >> >> 4.2 Security concerns: >> Security becomes a concern when synchronizing files across network. >> Unison >> provides two methods for communicating between the client and the >> server: >> >> * Remote shell method: To use this method, you must have some way of >> invoking remote commands on the server from the client's command line, >> using a facility such as ssh. This method is more convenient and also >> more >> secure (especially if you use ssh). >> >> * Socket method: This method requires only that you can get TCP packets >> from the client to the server and back. >> The socket method is insecure: not only are the texts of your changes >> transmitted over the network in unprotected form, it is also possible >> for >> anyone in the network to connect to the server process and read out the >> contents of your file system! The socket method is provided only for >> expert users with specific needs; everyone else should use the remote >> shell (ssh) method. > > I presume that if there is a server here, it is not enabled by > default? Can you confirm, does this project adhere to the Secure By > Default rule? > > If there is a server, how is it administered, if at all? Yes, the project adheres to the Secure By Default rule. It's up to the user to choose which method is going to be used(ssh method, rsh method or socket method) when user executes the command unison. > > >> >> 4.3 Limitations: >> There are a few limitations in current version of Unison [2]: >> >> 4.3.1 In the interests of speed, the update detection algorithm may >> (depending >> on which OS architecture that you run Unison on) actually use an >> approximation. > > > This point has me concerned. What are the failure modes here? Will > Unison incorrectly detect clobber a file? Will it *fail* to copy a > file that has actually changed and should be updated? Heuristics here > make me queasy, especially for a system that is intended for possible > use in maintaining backups. > > How will users have this information? This limitation is well documented in the manual. As follows: Caveats and Shortcomings Here are some things to be careful of when using Unison. * In the interests of speed, the update detection algorithm may (depending on which OS architecture that you run Unison on) actually use an approximation to the definition given in the What is an Update? section. In particular, the Unix implementation does not compare the actual contents of files to their previous contents, but simply looks at each file's inode number and modtime; if neither of these have changed, then it concludes that the file has not been changed. Under normal circumstances, this approximation is safe, in the sense that it may sometimes detect "false updates" will never miss a real one. However, it is possible to fool it, for example by using retouch to change a file's modtime back to a time in the past. > >> >> 4.3.2 When synchronize between a single-user file system and a shared >> Unix >> server, by default, Unison will synchronize permissions verbatim, >> which may >> leave group-writable files on the server that could be written over >> by a lot of >> people. >> >> 4.3.3 The graphical user interface of Unison is single-threaded. > > > The above two aren't really areas of concern, IMO. > >> >> 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. > > > That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this > is that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and > storage needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO > image, which also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of > transferring and storing one 4G image, you are transferring and > storing n * 4G. > > Can this result in previous hard links being busted? Will updates > copied from one file on a remote node potentially clobber a > hard-linked clone elsewhere? (Put another way, if a file A is > hardlinked to file B, and a remote copy of A called C is updated, will > the synchronization of A from C by Unison cause any change to B?) The test result is, the synchronization of A from C doesn't cause any change to B. And the hard link between A and B was destroyed. This limitation is also documented in Caveats and Shortcomings section of the manual. > >> >> 4.3.5 Renaming directories that containing "ignore"d files may result >> in loss >> of data. > > > That's a potentially bad failing. Unintended loss of data is never a > good failure mode. > > It seems (to me at least) that this tool can easily be used in ways > which are potentially destructive. (How destructive depends on the > answers to the above questions.) While I understand that such a tool > can be useful, it has some pretty significant caveats. This limitation is documented in the Caveats and Shortcomings section of the manual. > > > >> >> 4.5 Interfaces >> >> 4.5.1 Imported Interfaces >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | NAME | STABILITY LABEL | DESCRIPTION | >> +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ >> | libsocket | Committed | PSARC/1995/014 | >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> >> 4.5.2 Exported Interfaces >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | NAME | PROPOSED | DESCRIPTION | >> | | STABILITY LABEL | | >> +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ >> | SUNWunison | Uncommitted | Unison package | >> |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| >> | /usr/bin/unison | Committed | Unison executable | >> |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| >> | ~/.unison/default.prf | Uncommitted | Unison default profile | >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > I probably shouldn't repeat this, but I am again concerned about > Committed for an application that seems to have a somewhat limited > audience and may itself no longer be actively developed or maintained. > (See http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html for that > status information.) This is all the more so given the above > limitations, which it now seems are unlikely to be resolved given the > development status. > > The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see ARC have some > oversight about how things like this are delivered -- this seems > ideally suited for an external repo -- readily accessible to users > that want it, but not installed by default. > > Certainly, the value of the "stability" of the path name of an > executable seems significantly reduced without some idea of how and > whether it will be delivered by default. > > -- Garrett > >> >> 4.6 Release binding >> Release binding requested: patch/micro. >> >> >> 6. Resources and Schedule >> 6.4 Steering Committee Requested Information >> 6.4.1 Consolidation C-team Name: SFW >> 6.5 ARC review type: Fast Track >> 6.6 ARC exposure: open >> >> >> Footnotes: >> ---------- >> [1] http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison >> [2] See man page of Unison for more details. >> >> > From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Tue Mar 25 02:23:19 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2P9NJDI006009 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P9NIo1013540 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0050X4QUD900@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.101]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA003XR4QRWR20@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2P9NEG2009067 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:23:14 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2P9ahmq004617 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:36:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYA00N2P4QK1VA0@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:23:09 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:21:07 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 2026 Hi Alan, My comments are inlines. Thanks. Regards, Bill Alan Coopersmith 已写入: >Frank Che wrote: > > >>4.3.2 When synchronize between a single-user file system and a shared Unix >>server, by default, Unison will synchronize permissions verbatim, which may >>leave group-writable files on the server that could be written over by a >>lot of >>people. >> >> > >Are permissions copied correctly when moving files between fully featured >file systems? Even if one is NTFS and the other UFS or ZFS? >What about ACL's? > > Unison command has an option for the permission synchronize. Details as follows: -perms n The integer value of this preference is a mask indicating which permission bits should be synchronized. It is set by default to 0o1777: all bits but the set-uid and set-gid bits are synchronised (synchronizing theses latter bits can be a security hazard). If you want to synchronize all bits, you can set the value of this preference to −1. And the following is about the permission synchronization between two different file system: Permissions Synchronizing the permission bits of files is slightly tricky when two different filesytems are involved (e.g., when synchronizing a Windows client and a Unix server). In detail, here's how it works: * When the permission bits of an existing file or directory are changed, the values of those bits that make sense on both operating systems will be propagated to the other replica. The other bits will not be changed. * When a newly created file is propagated to a remote replica, the permission bits that make sense in both operating systems are also propagated. The values of the other bits are set to default values (they are taken from the current umask, if the receiving host is a Unix system). * For security reasons, the Unix setuid and setgid bits are not propagated. * The Unix owner and group ids are not propagated. (What would this mean, in general?) All files are created with the owner and group of the server process. From Frank.Che@sun.com Tue Mar 25 03:14:42 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PAEffl007313 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PAENob012150 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:14:40 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00A0F74CMG00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA007DF74A1N80@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:14:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PAEwUf011790 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:14:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JYA0020172WJF00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:14:30 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYA00JJM745C7EB@mail-apac.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:14:30 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:15:12 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: Nicolas Williams Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 1718 Nicolas Williams wrote: >>>4.5.2 Exported Interfaces >>> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >>> | NAME | PROPOSED | DESCRIPTION | >>> | | STABILITY LABEL | | >>> +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ >>> | SUNWunison | Uncommitted | Unison package | >>> |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| >>> | /usr/bin/unison | Committed | Unison executable | >>> |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| >>> | ~/.unison/default.prf | Uncommitted | Unison default profile | >>> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >>> >>> >>I probably shouldn't repeat this, but I am again concerned about >>Committed for an application that seems to have a somewhat limited >>audience and may itself no longer be actively developed or maintained. >>(See http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html for that >>status information.) This is all the more so given the above >>limitations, which it now seems are unlikely to be resolved given the >>development status. >> >> > >I agree. Make it Obsolete, make it Uncommitted or Volatile and add a >note explaining what changes might be coming, if any. > > > According to the message from the community web site, there is no active development on this product any more. While bug fixes, small improvements and contributed patches may come. So I suggested to use Committed level. If members think this is not proper, please let me know and it will be fixed. -Frank From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Tue Mar 25 04:37:04 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PBb3ar009812 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PBarcu017870; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:36:58 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00G0JAXJP500@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00G8HAXJF610@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PBUfiA000256; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:36:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp11es.sun.com ([160.41.209.21] [160.41.209.21]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-623938; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:36:54 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp11es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-10171258; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:36:54 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-17.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.57] [151.189.21.57]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-5002764; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:36:53 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-19-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-19-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.36]) by mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441E42BB7A0; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:36:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (mail-in-07.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.47]) by mail-in-19-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3132D6BD6B; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:36:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-197-184.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.197.184]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCAAC28ABA7; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:36:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PBapYm000765; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:36:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:36:51 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Frank Che Cc: Nicolas Williams , PSARC-ext@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , yan xue yang Message-id: <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6391/Tue Mar 25 11:09:55 2008 on mail-in-07.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.297sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1371 Frank Che wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: [snip] > >>I probably shouldn't repeat this, but I am again concerned about > >>Committed for an application that seems to have a somewhat limited > >>audience and may itself no longer be actively developed or maintained. > >>(See http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html for that > >>status information.) This is all the more so given the above > >>limitations, which it now seems are unlikely to be resolved given the > >>development status. > > > >I agree. Make it Obsolete, make it Uncommitted or Volatile and add a > >note explaining what changes might be coming, if any. > > According to the message from the community web site, there is no active > development on this product any more. While bug fixes, small > improvements and contributed patches may come. So I suggested to use > Committed level. If members think this is not proper, please let me know > and it will be fixed. Erm..."devils advocate" question: If Unison is no longer maintained... why should it be integrated into (Open)Solaris ? And how do other OSes (like Linux) handle the support issue (e.g. no upstream where they can send the bug reports to) ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Tue Mar 25 04:44:43 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PBihk4009978 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PBidf0020283; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00H0FBAFFP00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00GAHBAFF640@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 04:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay24.sun.com (ip192-12-251-74.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.74]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PBYMpK027357; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:44:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms23es.sun.com ([150.143.232.54] [150.143.232.54]) by relay24i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1078456; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:44:38 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54]) by mms23es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3527673; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:44:38 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.43] [151.189.21.43]) by relay23i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-23221533; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:44:37 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.29]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359F12CAABA; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F459279436; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-197-184.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.197.184]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539C21CB833; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PBiYaP000768; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:34 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Occam... / was: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Joep Vesseur Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47E8E5A2.2288E2A3@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6391/Tue Mar 25 11:09:55 2008 on mail-in-05.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 0.109sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47E8BC48.6000407@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 664 Joep Vesseur wrote: > > As Unison is written in Occam, does this case propose to include some > form of Occam compiler as well? Occam (I'm a bit suprised since I thought most of the legacy of the Transputer stuff is long long gone (unfortunately)) ? > The occaml compiler normally advertised to > compile Unison with is distributed under the Q-license which might be > a novum for OpenSolaris. What's the exact problem ? Occam may have some use for Niagara-class machines... ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Joep.Vesseur@sun.com Tue Mar 25 05:06:16 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PC6FsI010520 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PC66tE000135 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:06:14 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00J11CAB3I00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.225]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00EIWCABD630@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sunnl.Holland.Sun.COM (sunnl.Holland.Sun.COM [129.159.237.90]) by dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PC65dQ013752; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:06:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.16.117.32] (enigma.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.32]) by sunnl.Holland.Sun.COM (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PC64kB015547; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:06:05 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:06:04 +0100 From: Joep Vesseur Subject: Re: Occam... / was: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E8E5A2.2288E2A3@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47E8EAAC.7060403@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47E8BC48.6000407@Sun.COM> <47E8E5A2.2288E2A3@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Status: RO Content-Length: 406 On 03/25/08 12:44, Roland Mainz wrote: >> The occaml compiler normally advertised to >> compile Unison with is distributed under the Q-license which might be >> a novum for OpenSolaris. > > What's the exact problem ? Occam may have some use for Niagara-class > machines... I don't see a problem; I was just wondering if offering Unison by itself was architecturely complete. I guess it is though. Joep From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Tue Mar 25 05:15:04 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PCF39s010577 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PCEu5n004446; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:14:58 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00K0FCOWRE00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00KKECOV5400@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PCEtXn028405; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m2PCEtS0028402; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:14:55 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> To: Nicolas Williams Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 1418 Nicolas Williams writes: > The ARC should want to make sure that Unison's shortcomings are properly > documented. The ARC can't expect i-teams to fix the FOSS they are > integrating -- only the how it is integrated. Really? I don't think that's true. I think it's right and proper for the ARC to ask the I-team what it can do about any problems that exist, regardless of where the code was obtained -- whether written by the submitter himself, purchased from some vendor, or downloaded off of the internets. The I-team can certainly respond: "we can do X, but we can't do Y, because it'll {cost too much, confuse users, break feature Z}." Those arguments may or may not sway the ARC members, depending on the severity of the problem. If it's bad enough and the I-team is intransigent, then the right answer is to derail (if fast-track; does anyone do full cases anymore?), TCR it, and let the project team determine how to handle the problem. I think the ARC would be derelict in its duty if it simply said "FOSS means no expectation of source change." That may be true of some projects, but certainly not of others, and the ARC should not be presuming one magic answer for all cases. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Tue Mar 25 05:17:03 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PCH2kl010617 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PCGupZ003945; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:16:59 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00C0DCS89R00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00A00CS78Q30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PC9KWa028386; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m2PC9A9L028383; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:09:10 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , yan xue yang Message-id: <18408.60262.623307.437254@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> Status: RO Content-Length: 1105 Roland Mainz writes: > > According to the message from the community web site, there is no active > > development on this product any more. While bug fixes, small > > improvements and contributed patches may come. So I suggested to use > > Committed level. If members think this is not proper, please let me know > > and it will be fixed. > > Erm..."devils advocate" question: If Unison is no longer maintained... > why should it be integrated into (Open)Solaris ? And how do other OSes > (like Linux) handle the support issue (e.g. no upstream where they can > send the bug reports to) ? No upstream change is (perversely enough) the good case: it means that we can focus on getting the integration and maintenance right in OpenSolaris, and don't have to worry so much about any costs due to forking from or contributing to the upstream ... because there effectively isn't one. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Tue Mar 25 05:35:55 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PCZtVF010697 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PCZp4V011198; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00C05DNRXI00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00AAIDNO8P40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (ip123.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.123]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PCZ5TE014956; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:35:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.sun.com ([160.41.209.23] [160.41.209.23]) by relay13i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-621480; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:35:48 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay17i.sun.com (relay17i.sun.com [129.179.4.127]) by mmp13es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-228068; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:35:48 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-04.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.44] [151.189.21.44]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-8504880; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:35:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.29]) by mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2132B17F4D8; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:35:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3A5279436; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:35:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-197-184.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.197.184]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9985D3664CA; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:35:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PCZiHc000785; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:35:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:35:44 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: Occam... / was: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Joep Vesseur Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47E8F1A0.4DFF05DD@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6391/Tue Mar 25 11:09:55 2008 on mail-in-06.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.056sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47E8BC48.6000407@Sun.COM> <47E8E5A2.2288E2A3@nrubsig.org> <47E8EAAC.7060403@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 733 Joep Vesseur wrote: > On 03/25/08 12:44, Roland Mainz wrote: > >> The occaml compiler normally advertised to > >> compile Unison with is distributed under the Q-license which might be > >> a novum for OpenSolaris. > > > > What's the exact problem ? Occam may have some use for Niagara-class > > machines... > > I don't see a problem; I was just wondering if offering Unison by itself > was architecturely complete. I guess it is though. What about the Q-license ? Are there any pieces of software in { SFW, OS/Net, ... } which use this license ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Tue Mar 25 05:44:19 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PCiJu1010753 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PCiFwR056024; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0000ZE1SNA00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00KBBE1Q4Z30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay24.sun.com (ip192-12-251-74.block6.us.syntegra.com [192.12.251.74]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PCa7JA005685; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms23es.sun.com ([150.143.232.54] [150.143.232.54]) by relay24i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1083505; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:13 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54]) by mms23es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3639302; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:13 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-12.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.52] [151.189.21.52]) by relay23i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-23320454; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:44:13 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.16]) by mail-in-12.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA0A4C385; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:44:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-10.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.50]) by mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5886ABB6F; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:44:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-197-184.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.197.184]) by mail-in-10.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B570A24D48C; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:44:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PCi66q000788; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:44:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:44:06 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: James Carlson Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , yan xue yang Message-id: <47E8F396.B89E16D2@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6391/Tue Mar 25 11:09:55 2008 on mail-in-10.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.072sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> <18408.60262.623307.437254@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 1895 James Carlson wrote: > Roland Mainz writes: > > > According to the message from the community web site, there is no active > > > development on this product any more. While bug fixes, small > > > improvements and contributed patches may come. So I suggested to use > > > Committed level. If members think this is not proper, please let me know > > > and it will be fixed. > > > > Erm..."devils advocate" question: If Unison is no longer maintained... > > why should it be integrated into (Open)Solaris ? And how do other OSes > > (like Linux) handle the support issue (e.g. no upstream where they can > > send the bug reports to) ? > > No upstream change is (perversely enough) the good case: it means that > we can focus on getting the integration and maintenance right in > OpenSolaris, Sarcastic comment of the day: Yeah... I remember how it was done "right" ([1]) in the case of /usr/bin/ksh ... =:-) [1]=Or better: It was done technically "right" (erm... in most cases) but other ksh88 codebases on other operating systems did evolve in different directions - the lack of a common maintainer or way to sync /usr/bin/ksh for the SystemV derivates made Solaris's /usr/bin/ksh a pain for those who want to develop software for Solaris... or even think that putting stuff into ~/.kshrc will behave the same way for all ksh88 versions. > and don't have to worry so much about any costs due to > forking from or contributing to the upstream ... because there > effectively isn't one. Groan... see above... just because the "head" (=maintainer, developer) is gone doesn't mean the rest of the body (= distributions, users) is dead, too. BTW: Do any Linux/BSD distributions apply any patches to "unison" ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Tue Mar 25 06:00:23 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PD0MnU011243 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PD0E4g022767; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:00:18 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00D0HESHVH00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00AGNESG8J50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PCqkfY028504; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m2PCqkDV028501; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:52:46 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E8F396.B89E16D2@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , yan xue yang Message-id: <18408.62878.537295.278468@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> <18408.60262.623307.437254@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <47E8F396.B89E16D2@nrubsig.org> Status: RO Content-Length: 1068 Roland Mainz writes: > Sarcastic comment of the day: Yeah... I remember how it was done "right" > ([1]) in the case of /usr/bin/ksh ... =:-) You'll need to try harder to get a plonk. :-/ > > and don't have to worry so much about any costs due to > > forking from or contributing to the upstream ... because there > > effectively isn't one. > > Groan... see above... just because the "head" (=maintainer, developer) > is gone doesn't mean the rest of the body (= distributions, users) is > dead, too. Not breaking the user experience *is* a good reason to avoid some changes. It might not be a good reason to avoid other changes. The point I'm making is that there is no one right answer here, and simply asserting "I'm FOSS, so I get a free ride!" is deeply wrong in terms of overall system architecture. That can't be the only answer. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Tue Mar 25 06:56:44 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PDuhDZ012911 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PDuXZ5014865; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:56:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00309HECNJ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00EK0HEAD4A0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PDuYDm018996; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:56:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp11es.sun.com ([160.41.209.21] [160.41.209.21]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-630910; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:56:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay17i.sun.com (relay17i.sun.com [129.179.4.127]) by mmp11es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-10338349; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:56:32 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.17] [153.96.1.17]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-8545131; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:56:32 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de[host mailgwb1] (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PDsBsu008999; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:54:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PDrhpt007876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:54:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2PDteds006323; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:55:40 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:55:40 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:55:39 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E8F396.B89E16D2@nrubsig.org> To: roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, james.d.carlson@sun.com Cc: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47e9045b.4adjwXEiIcmOnRwP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 1.270sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> <18408.60262.623307.437254@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <47E8F396.B89E16D2@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2008 13:55:40.0274 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9186520:01C88E7F] Status: RO Content-Length: 579 Roland Mainz wrote: > Sarcastic comment of the day: Yeah... I remember how it was done "right" > ([1]) in the case of /usr/bin/ksh ... =:-) Be careful, some people here seem to believe that the ksh93 case was not done right and like to unroll it ;-) Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Tue Mar 25 07:22:41 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PEMfgf013579 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PEMe6N011286 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0094ZILSS200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00KQ4ILQ4XB0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PEMcoj022385 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYA00M01ILA9W00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.6.102.118] by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYA00KWEILPB500@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:25:39 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Yan Xue Yang Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 2305 Yan Xue Yang wrote: > Alan Coopersmith 已写入: >> Frank Che wrote: >> >> >>> 4.3.2 When synchronize between a single-user file system and a shared >>> Unix >>> server, by default, Unison will synchronize permissions verbatim, >>> which may >>> leave group-writable files on the server that could be written over by a >>> lot of >>> people. >>> >> >> Are permissions copied correctly when moving files between fully featured >> file systems? Even if one is NTFS and the other UFS or ZFS? >> What about ACL's? >> >> > Unison command has an option for the permission synchronize. Details as > follows: > > -perms n > The integer value of this preference is a mask indicating which > permission bits should be synchronized. It is set by default to 0o1777: > all bits but the set-uid and set-gid bits are synchronised > (synchronizing theses latter bits can be a security hazard). If you want > to synchronize all bits, you can set the value of this preference to −1. > > > And the following is about the permission synchronization between two > different file system: > > Permissions > > Synchronizing the permission bits of files is slightly tricky when two > different filesytems are involved (e.g., when synchronizing a Windows > client and a Unix server). In detail, here's how it works: > > * When the permission bits of an existing file or directory are changed, > the values of those bits that make sense on both operating systems will > be propagated to the other replica. The other bits will not be changed. > * When a newly created file is propagated to a remote replica, the > permission bits that make sense in both operating systems are also > propagated. The values of the other bits are set to default values (they > are taken from the current umask, if the receiving host is a Unix system). > * For security reasons, the Unix setuid and setgid bits are not propagated. > * The Unix owner and group ids are not propagated. (What would this > mean, in general?) All files are created with the owner and group of the > server process. I see nothing in there about ACL's - does that mean a note should be added to the man page that ACL's are not copied either? -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Tue Mar 25 07:49:43 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PEnhRJ013955 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PEnV2E012375; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:49:38 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0070DJUP4J00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00EA6JUNDED0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m2PEnZlA024420; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:49:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m2PEnZUD024419; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:49:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:49:35 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> To: James Carlson Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Mail-followup-to: James Carlson , Garrett D'Amore , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 750 On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 08:14:55AM -0400, James Carlson wrote: > I think the ARC would be derelict in its duty if it simply said "FOSS > means no expectation of source change." That may be true of some > projects, but certainly not of others, and the ARC should not be > presuming one magic answer for all cases. Hmmm. Let me try again. For standalone utilities like Unison I don't agree. The ARC can reasonably ask lots of things (like that it be Secure By Default), but there's a fine line between asking for reasonable changes and killing the project. I think for libraries the ARC can and should be a lot more inquisitive, and potentially require many more changes. For core OS features the ARC should treat FOSS as any other Sun project. From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Tue Mar 25 08:07:35 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PF7Z73015147 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PF7Vi1023507; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0081NKOK6600@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:07:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA0084EKOG3H00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:07:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m2PF7S45024455; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:07:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m2PF7SnS024454; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:07:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:07:28 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> To: James Carlson , "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Mail-followup-to: James Carlson , Garrett D'Amore , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <20080325150728.GG16998@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 28 Oh, never mind my comments. From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Tue Mar 25 08:09:56 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PF9uMK015500 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PF9pmW024879; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0082NKSH8G00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA008D0KSD3E00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:09:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2PDtEb5022971; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:09:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.sun.com ([160.41.221.233] [160.41.221.233]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2234317; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:09:48 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1201070; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:09:48 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-08.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.48] [151.189.21.48]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-18890608; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:09:48 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.18]) by mail-in-08.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E68C27B210; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:09:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6665BF7E; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:09:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-197-184.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.197.184]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F5F3425EB; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:09:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PF9iI8000829; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:09:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:09:44 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: James Carlson Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , yan xue yang Message-id: <47E915B8.4B41A7B7@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6392/Tue Mar 25 13:44:02 2008 on mail-in-09.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.152sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> <18408.60262.623307.437254@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <47E8F396.B89E16D2@nrubsig.org> <18408.62878.537295.278468@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Status: RO Content-Length: 2000 James Carlson wrote: > Roland Mainz writes: > > Sarcastic comment of the day: Yeah... I remember how it was done "right" > > ([1]) in the case of /usr/bin/ksh ... =:-) > > You'll need to try harder to get a plonk. :-/ Erm... for the log: It wasn't my intention to offend anyone... I just tried to wave half-madly with the sign which says "please sync with other maintainers (and if you fail try harder...) ...) ... > > > and don't have to worry so much about any costs due to > > > forking from or contributing to the upstream ... because there > > > effectively isn't one. > > > > Groan... see above... just because the "head" (=maintainer, developer) > > is gone doesn't mean the rest of the body (= distributions, users) is > > dead, too. > > Not breaking the user experience *is* a good reason to avoid some > changes. IMO sometimes this was done too often (for example: see /usr/bin/grep vs. /usr/xpg4/bin/grep ... but maybe there is a slim chanche to clean this up in the near future...) ... > It might not be a good reason to avoid other changes. > > The point I'm making is that there is no one right answer here, and > simply asserting "I'm FOSS, so I get a free ride!" is deeply wrong in > terms of overall system architecture. I fully agree with that ([1]) ... :-) [1]=My first list of questions would be: Ok... you're "FOSS"... but are you: 1. CSI-compilant (e.g. does it support multibyte characters (correctly)) 2. 64bit clean 3. conform to any related parts of the POSIX/SUS spec (Note that some of the stuff in /usr/gnu/ horribly fails tests [1] and [3] while some of the Solaris codebase fails [2] (which forces any OpenSolaris port to add artificial 32bit support even if the hardware is not intended to support 32bit (IMO a shame... ;-( ))) > That can't be the only answer. Right... ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From gww@eng.sun.com Tue Mar 25 09:05:27 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PG5QZs016667 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PG5GTA019757; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:05:24 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00I67NCYWZ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00IW0NCWK410@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PG5HcU017992; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m2PH5d1H011785; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:05:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m2PH5d1r011784; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:05:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:05:39 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris To: roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, james.d.carlson@sun.com Cc: Frank.Che@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <200803251705.m2PH5d1r011784@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 939 > > Erm..."devils advocate" question: If Unison is no longer maintained... > > why should it be integrated into (Open)Solaris ? And how do other OSes > > (like Linux) handle the support issue (e.g. no upstream where they can > > send the bug reports to) ? > > No upstream change is (perversely enough) the good case: it means that > we can focus on getting the integration and maintenance right in > OpenSolaris, and don't have to worry so much about any costs due to > forking from or contributing to the upstream ... because there > effectively isn't one. [Not architectural, but likely PAC advice] Doesn't being Committed and having no upstream "owner" in effect mean that the submitters management chain is signed up to maintain and fix bugs until EOF? Is the submitters management chain aware and has accepted this? Perhaps as mentioned Obsolete or Volatile is more appropriate for interfaces that are not "owned". Gary.. From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Tue Mar 25 09:26:49 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PGQnSo017053 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PGQhWN000109; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00J1FOCKMC00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00I65OCFK740@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PGJ9ZV029387; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m2PGJ97X029384; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:19:09 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <200803251705.m2PH5d1r011784@marduk.eng.sun.com> To: Gary Winiger Cc: roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, Frank.Che@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <18409.9725.10573.333883@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803251705.m2PH5d1r011784@marduk.eng.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1298 Gary Winiger writes: > [Not architectural, but likely PAC advice] > Doesn't being Committed and having no upstream "owner" in effect > mean that the submitters management chain is signed up to maintain > and fix bugs until EOF? The questions just change in nature -- instead of being "we fix bugs that look like X, they fix things that look like Y, and we share bug database references," it becomes "we fix all bugs, because the Y set is nil." I don't think X is nil in all cases, even with an upstream owner. > Is the submitters management chain aware > and has accepted this? Perhaps as mentioned Obsolete or Volatile > is more appropriate for interfaces that are not "owned". Mixing the support story (particularly one associated with just _one_ distribution and not _all_ distributions) with the interface stability level sounds like a mistake to me. In fact, if it's not supported, it's probably more stable, just because there's nobody working on it. Some of the most stable stuff we've got gathers dust over in /usr/dist (on the SWAN) or /usr/ucb. ;-} -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Joseph.Kowalski@Sun.COM Tue Mar 25 10:58:13 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PHwC2t020512 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PHw8FD000048; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA00M1XSKYEO00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA00INMSKWJYA0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.161.67] (dhcp-usca22-161-67.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.161.67]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PHw8au280294; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:58:53 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E85432.1030707@Sun.Com> To: John Plocher Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Xue-Yang.Yan@Sun.COM, Frank.Che@Sun.COM Reply-to: Joseph.Kowalski@Sun.COM Message-id: <47E93D5D.6080602@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47E85432.1030707@Sun.Com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071203) Status: RO Content-Length: 1925 John Plocher wrote: > Joseph Kowalski wrote: >> My issue is that if this is "good enough" for the community (of Linux >> users), this is good enough to allow this to be integrated into Solaris. > > Uhmmmmm..... > > If it is good enuf for Linux, it most certainly should be available > for use on (Open)Solaris, but that is not sufficient in and of itself > to be integrated into (Open)Solaris. > > The difference, in my mind, is whether or not these things should be > going into the "core" repository (and thus are things that the core > stuff can depend on) -vs- things in the "other stuff that is not core" > repository. > > -John OK. People seem to want to pick on my exact words. Let me try again. We (Solaris/OpenSolaris) get to pick and choose from the broad spectrum of available FOSS, but other than proper integration into Solaris, we don't get to second guess the decisions of the individual communities. Union made a decision with respect to hardlink support. We need to get over it that we probably would have made a different choice. Until we have a repository, much less, core and non-core repositories, we are living in a fantasy. The proposal is to drop Unison into that great WOS which comes on the Solaris distribution. There is not repository,.. heck there isn't even a reasonable set of metaclusters. I was one who believed that having a repository could solve world hunger. Although having a repository would truly be a great thing, it doesn't solve many of the issues we seem to be facing. I think the next time I see a view which is based on the premise of having a "core" repository, I'll probably send it directly to /dev/null. I should also point out that this discussion is based on a single line from my positing and taken completely out of context and (this discussion about repositories) is completely orthogonal from the Unison proposal. People, can we please focus? - jek3 From Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Tue Mar 25 11:32:26 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2PIWQrf021089 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2PIWJ3u004533; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:32:20 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYA0080HU5V9M00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYA008AAU5U0V00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.161.67] (dhcp-usca22-161-67.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.161.67]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2PIWI05287146; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:32:59 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Frank Che , Nicolas Williams , PSARC-ext@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , yan xue yang Reply-to: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Message-id: <47E9455B.4050405@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <47E8D0B0.8000205@sun.com> <47E8E3D3.C3147D7E@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071203) Status: RO Content-Length: 1569 Roland Mainz wrote: > Erm..."devils advocate" question: If Unison is no longer maintained... > why should it be integrated into (Open)Solaris ? And how do other OSes > (like Linux) handle the support issue (e.g. no upstream where they can > send the bug reports to) ? > I see that there has been significant discussion spawned from Roland's "devil's advocate" question. I think its a very important question (thanks Ronald!). However, the resulting thread seems to be a little amorphous. I'd like to see concrete answers to... 1) For some reason we need to rebuild Unison. How do we (or other distros based on OpenSolaris) do that? (ie: occum) 1a) Is there any precedent for a binary delivery of an executable? 1b) What are the guarantees that this isn't some kind of "trojan horse"? (Yea, I know its unlikely, but....) 2) A reason might need to rebuild Unison, would be the discovery of a security hole. What do we do? Who fixes it? Would the response from Sun to be simply remove it (because its not worth the resources)? (Other distros can make their own choice.) 3) Its unlikely, but what if the fix to this mythical security hole requires an API/CLI modification. Do we just fork from the accepted interface? #2 and #3 seems to make it a requirement that this be Volatile (or Obsolete Volatile). I can't assert that I know an obvious answer for the other questions above. Is this appropriate for a fast-track? (Because the support issues are new ground?) - jek3 From gww@eng.sun.com Tue Mar 25 22:47:59 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q5lwhA011756 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q5ltpg005499 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:47:57 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYB00A01PFVYK00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYB00EH7PFVR4C0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q5lpFx044966; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m2Q6mEEn013365; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m2Q6mEos013364; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:48:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:48:14 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris To: Frank.Che@sun.com, Joep.Vesseur@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <200803260648.m2Q6mEos013364@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 586 > No. Only a binary file and a man page will be delivered. I'm not sure what is meant here. Is it that a binary file will be integrated into some consolidation (such as SFW) that is prebuilt? What would the build environment be for Release Engineering (or OpenSolaris)? Gary.. > Frank. > > Joep Vesseur wrote: > > >As Unison is written in Occam, does this case propose to include some > >form of Occam compiler as well? The occaml compiler normally advertised to > >compile Unison with is distributed under the Q-license which might be > >a novum for OpenSolaris. > > > >Joep From gww@eng.sun.com Tue Mar 25 23:13:55 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q6Dtn2012185 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q6DsqD022499; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYB0050DQN1LW00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:13:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYB0039IQMZTOE0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q6Di0R054266; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m2Q7E7wi013485; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m2Q7E7wW013484; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:14:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:14:07 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris To: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com Cc: Frank.Che@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <200803260714.m2Q7E7wW013484@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 814 > > If there is a server, how is it administered, if at all? > > Yes, the project adheres to the Secure By Default rule. It's up to the > user to choose which method is going to be used(ssh method, rsh method > or socket method) when user executes the command unison. If I understand there's a service delivered as part of this project. How is it administered? What is its FMRI? What authorizations are provided to enable/disable it? What is its method context? Or is the functionality that I need to ssh to the remote machine and run the server as myself and select an unbound port? Nit from the man page: | Interface Stability| External | What is the Interface Stability (from other parts of the discussion)? Please update the man page to have a valid stability. Gary.. From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Wed Mar 26 01:19:45 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q8JikJ015317 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q8JfL4000288 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:19:43 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYB00C0HWGTL100@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.102]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYB000LPWGRLOD0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q8JdxH027610 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:19:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2Q8X9OU004412 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:33:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYB0058AWGLLG60@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:19:34 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:17:30 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 2463 Alan Coopersmith 已写入: >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > > >>Alan Coopersmith 已写入: >> >> >>>Frank Che wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>4.3.2 When synchronize between a single-user file system and a shared >>>>Unix >>>>server, by default, Unison will synchronize permissions verbatim, >>>>which may >>>>leave group-writable files on the server that could be written over by a >>>>lot of >>>>people. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Are permissions copied correctly when moving files between fully featured >>>file systems? Even if one is NTFS and the other UFS or ZFS? >>>What about ACL's? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Unison command has an option for the permission synchronize. Details as >>follows: >> >>-perms n >>The integer value of this preference is a mask indicating which >>permission bits should be synchronized. It is set by default to 0o1777: >>all bits but the set-uid and set-gid bits are synchronised >>(synchronizing theses latter bits can be a security hazard). If you want >>to synchronize all bits, you can set the value of this preference to −1. >> >> >>And the following is about the permission synchronization between two >>different file system: >> >>Permissions >> >>Synchronizing the permission bits of files is slightly tricky when two >>different filesytems are involved (e.g., when synchronizing a Windows >>client and a Unix server). In detail, here's how it works: >> >>* When the permission bits of an existing file or directory are changed, >>the values of those bits that make sense on both operating systems will >>be propagated to the other replica. The other bits will not be changed. >>* When a newly created file is propagated to a remote replica, the >>permission bits that make sense in both operating systems are also >>propagated. The values of the other bits are set to default values (they >>are taken from the current umask, if the receiving host is a Unix system). >>* For security reasons, the Unix setuid and setgid bits are not propagated. >>* The Unix owner and group ids are not propagated. (What would this >>mean, in general?) All files are created with the owner and group of the >>server process. >> >> > >I see nothing in there about ACL's - does that mean a note should be added >to the man page that ACL's are not copied either? > > > It's not documented in the manual. After testing, I confirm unison doesn't support both ACL's and extended attributes. I think we need to add this to man page. From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Wed Mar 26 01:23:38 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q8NbY7015351 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q8NOOs001697 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:23:36 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYB00C0TWNAQL00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.102]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYB000HZWN9LUE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q8NWso029859 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:23:32 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2Q8b2OM004509 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:37:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYB0054UWN2LH70@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:23:27 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:21:23 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <200803260648.m2Q6mEos013364@marduk.eng.sun.com> To: Gary Winiger Cc: Frank.Che@sun.com, Joep.Vesseur@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47EA0783.9090708@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803260648.m2Q6mEos013364@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 740 Gary Winiger ÒÑдÈë: >>No. Only a binary file and a man page will be delivered. >> >> > > I'm not sure what is meant here. Is it that a binary file > will be integrated into some consolidation (such as SFW) > that is prebuilt? What would the build environment be for > Release Engineering (or OpenSolaris)? > > No, we'll putback the source code of unison, lablgtk and ocaml to sfwnv gate. Ocaml is for the CAML compiler, and lablgtk provides the libraries which will be statically linked by unison. Lablgtk and ocaml will be only used during the compilation. Finally, there will be one package SUNWunison generated. And one file unsion(executable) and one file(unison.1) for man page are in the SUNWunison package. >Gary.. > > From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Wed Mar 26 01:30:08 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q8U6Vo015512 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q8TxCK004868; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:30:01 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYB00C09WXZZA00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYB000TTWXYLQE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2Q8NbD7028381; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:29:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay41i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-754160; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:29:58 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay43i.sun.com (relay43i.sun.com [192.5.209.74]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3106571; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:29:57 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-08.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.48] [151.189.21.48]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-63763565; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:29:57 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-16-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-16-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.33]) by mail-in-08.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B14127ADDE; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:29:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-16-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074422540B6; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:29:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-058-197-184.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.58.197.184]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573F93664C4; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:29:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q8Troc001049; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:29:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:29:53 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Yan Xue Yang Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6392/Tue Mar 25 13:44:02 2008 on mail-in-06.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-0.7/5.0, scanned in 0.099sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 670 Yan Xue Yang wrote: > Alan Coopersmith å·²å??å?¥: > >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > >>Alan Coopersmith å·²å??å?¥: > >>>Frank Che wrote: [snip] > It's not documented in the manual. After testing, I confirm unison > doesn't support both ACL's and extended attributes. I think we need to > add this to man page. What about filenames with multibyte characters (e.g. chinese characters using the zh_CN.GB18030 locale or japanese using the ja_JP.PCK locale) ? How does "Unison" handle such things ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Wed Mar 26 01:44:39 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q8icfA015648 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q8ia3q010666 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:44:37 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYB00H0BXMCQZ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.101]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYB00879XMB1S70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q8iY4A002005 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:44:34 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2Q8w45E004969 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:58:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYB005W4XM4LG80@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:44:29 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:42:25 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <200803260714.m2Q7E7wW013484@marduk.eng.sun.com> To: Gary Winiger Cc: gdamore@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47EA0C71.7030905@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803260714.m2Q7E7wW013484@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 1418 Gary Winiger ÒÑдÈë: >>>If there is a server, how is it administered, if at all? >>> >>> >>Yes, the project adheres to the Secure By Default rule. It's up to the >>user to choose which method is going to be used(ssh method, rsh method >>or socket method) when user executes the command unison. >> >> > > If I understand there's a service delivered as part of this > project. How is it administered? What is its FMRI? What > authorizations are provided to enable/disable it? What > is its method context? > > There is no a service delivered. Only one file unison(executable) under /usr/bin and one man file unison.1 will be delivered > Or is the functionality that I need to ssh to the remote > machine and run the server as myself and select an unbound > port? > > Yes, If you want to sychronize files between two machines, you need to get unison installed on both of mahcines. And if you choose socket method, you need to log in to the remote machine and start the daemon manually, the command is like the following: unison -socket NNNN NNNN is the port number > Nit from the man page: > | Interface Stability| External | > > What is the Interface Stability (from other parts of the > discussion)? Please update the man page to have a valid stability. > > The interface stability is uncommitted. We will update the man page with the new classification. > >Gary.. > > From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Wed Mar 26 02:12:59 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2Q9CwnM017469 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q9CkdK021174 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:12:57 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYB00E07YXIOJ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.102]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYB00DO4YXH9B10@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2Q9CrVw025845 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:12:53 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2Q9QN9t005716 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:26:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYB0055MYXALGC0@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:12:48 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:10:43 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 627 Roland Mainz : >[snip] > > >>It's not documented in the manual. After testing, I confirm unison >>doesn't support both ACL's and extended attributes. I think we need to >>add this to man page. >> >> > >What about filenames with multibyte characters (e.g. chinese characters >using the zh_CN.GB18030 locale or japanese using the ja_JP.PCK locale) ? >How does "Unison" handle such things ? > > > It's not documented in the manual. But we've just tested it in a chinese environment. The test result is two files with chinese filename and chinese content can be synchronized by unison. >---- > >Bye, >Roland > > > From Frank.Che@sun.com Wed Mar 26 03:09:56 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2QA9t75018479 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2QA9trM027677 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYC000091KIRX00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYC008201KG1XF0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2QAAG71018970 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:10:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JYC00K011HMZ900@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:09:49 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYC00J1Y1KCC79F@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:09:48 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:10:31 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <200803251705.m2PH5d1r011784@marduk.eng.sun.com> Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: Gary Winiger Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <47EA2117.20103@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803251705.m2PH5d1r011784@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 349 Gary Winiger wrote: > [Not architectural, but likely PAC advice] > Doesn't being Committed and having no upstream "owner" in effect > mean that the submitters management chain is signed up to maintain > and fix bugs until EOF? Is the submitters management chain aware > and has accepted this? > As far as I know, the answer is no here. Frank. From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Wed Mar 26 06:13:06 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2QDD6sS023543 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 06:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2QDD1nh015259; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:13:01 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYC00E03A1P0W00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYC009BTA1O2X40@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2QD8uBR004113; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:13:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2409356; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:12:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com (relay44i.sun.com [192.5.209.118]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-352022; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:12:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.43] [151.189.21.43]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-64348904; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:12:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.18]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4D22D296E; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:12:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-12.arcor-online.net (mail-in-12.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.52]) by mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF5D5BD79; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:12:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-013-020.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.13.20]) by mail-in-12.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF32944A7; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:12:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2QDCt6o001098; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:12:56 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:12:55 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Yan Xue Yang Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6396/Wed Mar 26 12:29:12 2008 on mail-in-12.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.116sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 933 Yan Xue Yang wrote: > Roland Mainz : > >[snip] > >>It's not documented in the manual. After testing, I confirm unison > >>doesn't support both ACL's and extended attributes. I think we need to > >>add this to man page. > > > >What about filenames with multibyte characters (e.g. chinese characters > >using the zh_CN.GB18030 locale or japanese using the ja_JP.PCK locale) ? > >How does "Unison" handle such things ? > > It's not documented in the manual. But we've just tested it in a chinese > environment. The test result is two files with chinese filename and > chinese content can be synchronized by unison. Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Joerg.Barfurth@sun.com Wed Mar 26 07:57:38 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2QEvbIP025767 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2QEvXrR017362 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:57:36 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYC00K1JEVXSM00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYC00J2YEVWF220@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2QEvWqE006655 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:57:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYC00801D643K00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Joerg.Barfurth@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:57:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.16.46.61] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYC00DGIEV7UQB0@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:57:08 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:57:07 +0100 From: Joerg Barfurth Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> Sender: Joerg.Barfurth@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Frank Che , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <47EA6443.8070407@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystem - Desktop MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070723) Status: RO Content-Length: 7521 I did some work with unison a while back. Actually I had started preparing a case like LSARC/2006/222 which would have brought unison onto the system, but that project never got far enough (I believe LSARC/2006/222 is the result of a successor project). From that background some remarks, particularly with a view on interface stabilities: Garrett D'Amore schrieb: > Frank Che wrote: >> 4.2 Security concerns: >> Security becomes a concern when synchronizing files across network. Unison >> provides two methods for communicating between the client and the server: >> >> * Remote shell method: To use this method, you must have some way of >> invoking remote commands on the server from the client's command line, >> using a facility such as ssh. This method is more convenient and also more >> secure (especially if you use ssh). >> >> * Socket method: This method requires only that you can get TCP packets >> from the client to the server and back. >> The socket method is insecure: not only are the texts of your changes >> transmitted over the network in unprotected form, it is also possible for >> anyone in the network to connect to the server process and read out the >> contents of your file system! The socket method is provided only for >> expert users with specific needs; everyone else should use the remote >> shell (ssh) method. > I presume that if there is a server here, it is not enabled by default? > Can you confirm, does this project adhere to the Secure By Default rule? > > If there is a server, how is it administered, if at all? > That server isn't configured to be started by the system at all. unison is intended as a user-level tool. You'd start unison with the options to make it a socket method server manually under whatever user account has the right access to the files you want to synchronize. You could create a real service harness for this, but that is not part of the normal unison setup and not recommended for security reasons. The main use case for the socket method is synchronizing with a peer that does not have a ssh server or client readily available (e.g. a MS Windows box in the server role or owned by someone who can't be bothered to install an SSH client). >> 4.3 Limitations: > >> 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. > > That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this is > that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and storage > needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO image, which > also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of transferring and storing > one 4G image, you are transferring and storing n * 4G. > > Can this result in previous hard links being busted? Will updates > copied from one file on a remote node potentially clobber a hard-linked > clone elsewhere? (Put another way, if a file A is hardlinked to file B, > and a remote copy of A called C is updated, will the synchronization of > A from C by Unison cause any change to B?) > I think part of the reason or this (and also of lack of ACL support, etc) is that unison tries to be able to operate across platforms. The more features are included that are not available or not the same on all file systems the harder it gets to do a decent handling/mapping when synchronizing between different file systems and platforms. The restrictions are documented and if you rely heavily on hard links, this tool may not be for you. >> 4.5 Interfaces >> >> 4.5.1 Imported Interfaces >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | NAME | STABILITY LABEL | DESCRIPTION | >> +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ >> | libsocket | Committed | PSARC/1995/014 | >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> >> 4.5.2 Exported Interfaces >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ >> | NAME | PROPOSED | DESCRIPTION | >> | | STABILITY LABEL | | >> +-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------+ >> | SUNWunison | Uncommitted | Unison package | >> |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| >> | /usr/bin/unison | Committed | Unison executable | >> |-----------------------+-----------------+------------------------| >> | ~/.unison/default.prf | Uncommitted | Unison default profile | >> +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > I probably shouldn't repeat this, but I am again concerned about > Committed for an application that seems to have a somewhat limited > audience and may itself no longer be actively developed or maintained. > (See http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html for that > status information.) This is all the more so given the above > limitations, which it now seems are unlikely to be resolved given the > development status. > Interestingly that status page does not really reflect recent practice. The statement that unison is in maintenance mode has been up for several years and in the timeframe I observed it, unison has progressed from version 2.9.x to 2.27.xx with several intervening beta versions and bugfix updates. So the maintenance has been relatively active. On the other hand the status statement indicates that the primary maintainers may stop their part of this activity at any time at their discretion, so I too would be wary of putting a Committed stability on unison. But there is another pitfall to keep in mind when assigning stabilities for unison: the fact that there still is (or at least has been) active development, so there may be more upstream version changes. unison has a very limited compatibility promise for its transfer format. That means that two different unison versions won't talk to each other. Currently (iirc since 2.17) versions are different for this purpose, if they differ in minor version number - i.e. version 2.27.xx will work with 2.27.yy but not with 2.17.zz. IIRC the technical reason is that they use OCAMLs builtin serialization for some internal objects, so whenever they add fields to these objects, the protocol changes. Apparently 2.27 has been around for a while, but the 2.10.x version I worked with ~4 years ago is completely gone from their download page. They appear to do limited bugfixing on the prior stable revision (2.17). For that reason I would have proposed a versioned file name (e.g. /usr/bin/unison-2.27), so that versioning-skew-proof configuration of unison profiles is possible (you can specify the name of the server-side executable) and to keep stability at no more than Uncommitted. Whether a /usr/bin/unison symlink (with even lower stability) makes sense could be argued. Profile capabilities evolve with versions too, but afaict the unison project has a pretty good track record of maintaining compatibility there. - Jörg -- Joerg Barfurth phone: +49 40 23646662 / x66662 Software Engineer mailto:joerg.barfurth@sun.com Desktop Technology http://reserv.ireland/twiki/bin/view/Argus/ Thin Client Software http://www.sun.com/software/sunray/ Sun Microsystems GmbH http://www.sun.com/software/javadesktopsystem/ From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Wed Mar 26 20:14:39 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2R3EdY4027580 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2R3Edpx019174 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYD00703D0FPN00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.102]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYD00HM2D0D2KC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-02.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2R3EbGL012999 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:14:37 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2R3S6Yp027175 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:28:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYD00IMCD00I1F0@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:14:31 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:12:19 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47EB1093.4070808@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 1098 Roland Mainz : >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > > >>Roland Mainz : >> >> >>>[snip] >>> >>> >>>>It's not documented in the manual. After testing, I confirm unison >>>>doesn't support both ACL's and extended attributes. I think we need to >>>>add this to man page. >>>> >>>> >>>What about filenames with multibyte characters (e.g. chinese characters >>>using the zh_CN.GB18030 locale or japanese using the ja_JP.PCK locale) ? >>>How does "Unison" handle such things ? >>> >>> >>It's not documented in the manual. But we've just tested it in a chinese >>environment. The test result is two files with chinese filename and >>chinese content can be synchronized by unison. >> >> > >Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 >multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? > > I used zh_CN.UTF-8 for yesterday's testing. It works. Today, I just did the test with zh_CN.GB18030. And the result is that the file synchronization works but the chinese characters can't be displayed correctly on the GUI. >---- > >Bye, >Roland > > > From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Wed Mar 26 20:30:25 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2R3UPrM027753 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2R3UK0k021981; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYD00803DQMGD00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYD00HUPDQM2IB0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2R3NThB028284; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:30:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms22es.sun.com ([150.143.232.34] [150.143.232.34]) by relay23i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1218994; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:30:21 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay22.sun.com (relay22.sun.com [192.12.251.34]) by mms22es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3541962; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:30:21 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.45] [151.189.21.45]) by relay22i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-349933; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:30:20 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.18]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1021834C9; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:30:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-14.arcor-online.net (mail-in-14.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.54]) by mail-in-06-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8B95BD63; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:30:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-013-020.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.13.20]) by mail-in-14.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3151875FA; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:30:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2R3UGm2001268; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:30:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:30:16 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Yan Xue Yang Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47EB14C8.50B91941@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6415/Thu Mar 27 01:30:08 2008 on mail-in-14.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.102sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> <47EB1093.4070808@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1142 Yan Xue Yang wrote: > Roland Mainz : > >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > >>Roland Mainz : [snip] > >>>What about filenames with multibyte characters (e.g. chinese characters > >>>using the zh_CN.GB18030 locale or japanese using the ja_JP.PCK locale) ? > >>>How does "Unison" handle such things ? > >>> > >>> > >>It's not documented in the manual. But we've just tested it in a chinese > >>environment. The test result is two files with chinese filename and > >>chinese content can be synchronized by unison. > > > >Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 > >multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? > > I used zh_CN.UTF-8 for yesterday's testing. It works. > > Today, I just did the test with zh_CN.GB18030. And the result is that > the file synchronization works but the chinese characters can't be > displayed correctly on the GUI. Did the "unison" client, server and the GUI use the "zh_CN.GB18030"-locale ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Xue-Yang.Yan@Sun.COM Wed Mar 26 20:42:49 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2R3gmCo027881 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2R3gj9f001507 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:42:48 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYD0060HEB9X300@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.101]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYD003UIEB8FN10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:42:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2R3gi2R019427 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:42:44 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-1.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.8]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2R3uDhv027715 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:56:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYD000RWEAZ1B20@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:42:38 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:40:30 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EB14C8.50B91941@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Frank Che Message-id: <47EB172E.3090506@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> <47EB1093.4070808@sun.com> <47EB14C8.50B91941@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 1307 Roland Mainz : >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > > >>Roland Mainz : >> >> >>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Roland Mainz : >>>> >>>> >[snip] > > >>>>>What about filenames with multibyte characters (e.g. chinese characters >>>>>using the zh_CN.GB18030 locale or japanese using the ja_JP.PCK locale) ? >>>>>How does "Unison" handle such things ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>It's not documented in the manual. But we've just tested it in a chinese >>>>environment. The test result is two files with chinese filename and >>>>chinese content can be synchronized by unison. >>>> >>>> >>>Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 >>>multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? >>> >>> >>I used zh_CN.UTF-8 for yesterday's testing. It works. >> >>Today, I just did the test with zh_CN.GB18030. And the result is that >>the file synchronization works but the chinese characters can't be >>displayed correctly on the GUI. >> >> > >Did the "unison" client, server and the GUI use the >"zh_CN.GB18030"-locale ? > > I run unison to synchronize two local folders on snv b85 with zh_CN.GB18030 locale. I used chinese charaters in folder name, file name and the file content during the testing. >---- > >Bye, >Roland > > > From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Thu Mar 27 06:58:33 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RDwWnX013866 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RDwShP056382; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:58:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE0000U6TG1I00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00JNB6TFBS20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2RDpk4s004948; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:58:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.sun.com ([160.41.209.24] [160.41.209.24]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-38232; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:58:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (relay13i.sun.com [129.179.4.123]) by mmp14es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-325599; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:58:26 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.46] [151.189.21.46]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-406784; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:58:26 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-03-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.15]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F89C31EA59; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:58:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail-in-03-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CE02D38A7; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:58:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-019-099.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.19.99]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0571E1CB899; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:58:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RDwMNO001368; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:58:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:58:22 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Yan Xue Yang Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47EBA7FE.D77BE497@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6421/Thu Mar 27 09:54:20 2008 on mail-in-05.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.295sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> <47EB1093.4070808@sun.com> <47EB14C8.50B91941@nrubsig.org> <47EB172E.3090506@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1230 Yan Xue Yang wrote: > Roland Mainz : > >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > >>Roland Mainz : > >>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: > >>>>Roland Mainz : [snip] > >>>Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 > >>>multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? > >> > >>I used zh_CN.UTF-8 for yesterday's testing. It works. > >> > >>Today, I just did the test with zh_CN.GB18030. And the result is that > >>the file synchronization works but the chinese characters can't be > >>displayed correctly on the GUI. > > > >Did the "unison" client, server and the GUI use the > >"zh_CN.GB18030"-locale ? > > I run unison to synchronize two local folders on snv b85 with > zh_CN.GB18030 locale. I used chinese charaters in folder name, file > name and the file content during the testing. Ok... this means "unison" syncs the filenames in such a locale correctly without ruining the characters (likely pass-through of the strings) and only the GUI fails to display the characters, right ? If "yes" - which toolkit (GTK+ ?) does it use ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From gdamore@Sun.COM Thu Mar 27 08:49:09 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RFn9Hr016551 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RFn7fS033341; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00D03BXVXM00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00C9DBXUDR60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2RFn6ft002174; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYE00D01BPOO700@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYE00DPGBXMYYA0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:45:41 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@Sun.COM To: Joseph.Kowalski@Sun.COM Cc: Don Cragun , Frank.Che@Sun.COM, PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Xue-Yang.Yan@Sun.COM Message-id: <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 2646 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > > OK, I've gotten a couple of private messages about this. I was > clearly unclear in what I said. > > My issue is that if this is "good enough" for the community (of Linux > users), this is good enough to allow this to be integrated into > Solaris. Sure, we have no idea how much this will bother Solaris > users. Just the same, we have little idea about how much this already > bothers Linux users. I am fairly sure that the pain (what ever it is) > is about the same for both classes. > > I'll retract my statement that this is a P4 or P5 bug. Actually, its > less than that, because it does conform to its specification, making > this into an RFE. If this was a Sun funded project, we as the ARC > would certainly question the decision to not support hardlinks. We > might even add that as a TCR. However, this is the importation of > FOSS. They already made the decision as to if hardlinks should be > supported. We just have to live with that choice. > > We live in a different world than we are accustomed to living in. > > - jek3 Hang on a sec. I think what I'm hearing is that it is now OK to accept architecturally inferior software into Solaris if it already exists on Linux. (Note specifically that I'm not indicating anything about how "widespread" its use is -- I don't think unison is in widespread use... but I'm not really in a position to know.) The fundamental problem I have with that, is that when software that is inferior (perhaps greatly so) is located in /usr/bin, the user has *no* way to distinguish between "first class" software developed at Sun's traditional quality standards, and various crapware that Sun has just crammed into the distribution but which may have major flaws which we "accept" because its "good enough for the Linux community". The user who finds unison via "man -k" doesn't realize this distinction, and assumes that the same level of support that comes with other utilities (such as rsync or tar) comes with unison. Are we just abdicating all engineering responsibility here, so that Solaris will ultimately become a mishmash of various bits of FOSS of differing quality? I really hope not! unison as documented for this case, IMO, does *not* belong in any default distribution of Solaris, but in some value add location where folks who want it can get at it easily. I *really* believe that we need to set some kind of precedent here defining what are appropriate things to have in the core (and what are the quality and support guarantees for such), versus what can go in some other ghetto repository. -- Garrett From gdamore@sun.com Thu Mar 27 08:54:23 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RFsNG3016975 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RFsEaM025909 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00E2RC6M4000@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE0080PC6HIY80@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2RFsHtU006486 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYE00D01BPOO700@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYE00DQ4C67YYD0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:50:50 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: James Carlson , "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 1002 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 08:14:55AM -0400, James Carlson wrote: > >> I think the ARC would be derelict in its duty if it simply said "FOSS >> means no expectation of source change." That may be true of some >> projects, but certainly not of others, and the ARC should not be >> presuming one magic answer for all cases. >> > > Hmmm. Let me try again. > > For standalone utilities like Unison I don't agree. The ARC can > reasonably ask lots of things (like that it be Secure By Default), but > there's a fine line between asking for reasonable changes and killing > the project. > > I think for libraries the ARC can and should be a lot more inquisitive, > and potentially require many more changes. > > For core OS features the ARC should treat FOSS as any other Sun project. > How does the consumer (in this case the user) know whether unison is a "core OS feature", or some integration of perhaps lesser-quality or otherwise inferior FOSS? -- Garrett From bart.smaalders@sun.com Thu Mar 27 09:53:06 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RGr5Yu018794 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RGqtqM003166; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:53:00 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00I05EWA2100@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:52:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zion.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.75]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00863EWAJ0D0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:52:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.228.109]) by zion.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2RGqvmu773053; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:52:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:52:57 -0700 From: Bart Smaalders Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Don Cragun , Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47EBD0E9.6060808@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080201) Status: RO Content-Length: 2275 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Hang on a sec. I think what I'm hearing is that it is now OK to accept > architecturally inferior software into Solaris if it already exists on > Linux. > ... > Are we just abdicating all engineering responsibility here, so that > Solaris will ultimately become a mishmash of various bits of FOSS of > differing quality? I really hope not! > You mean like an editor that won't work on terminals wider than 160 characters? (that was Sun's vi until S10)... you mean like a version of awk that breaks if the lines are longer than (gasp) 255 characters? Like a packaging system that cannot handle installing dependencies? Like a clustering software subsystem that effectively disables use of all /proc tools on certain critical cluster processes? Solaris, like every other operating system on the market, has bright and shiny pieces and pieces that are by definition, good enough despite their obvious flaws and shortcomings. Many other operating systems users consider parts of Solaris that we haven't fixed for many years to be laughably out of data and non-functional. It turns out that there's a (perceived) large benefit to being compatible with other operating systems, and this has led us directly to including more and more pieces of open source software into Solaris. Some of those pieces of software are somewhat broken from some perspectives. Get over it. If you don't like the way it works, don't use it. I'd love to see you piss and moan over the code, and the bugs, in csh were that shell to be brought up for review as open source software today. Sun (and everyone else) doesn't have the resources to write a perfect OS; we don't have the people, we don't have the time. Figure out what you can do to make Solaris, and the other OSs using the same components as Solaris better. Hint - standing there and shouting "That can't come into the Solaris clubhouse - it's not perfect!" doesn't seem to be helping very much. If Unison is popular, then it's good enough. If no one ends up downloading those packages, they'll end up disappearing. - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts "You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird." From edward.pilatowicz@sun.com Thu Mar 27 12:32:44 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RJWiYW025481 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RJWchO052538; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE006ADMAGLE00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE005CHM91S440@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2RJVnbU616127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from edp@localhost) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m2RJVmuj616126; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:31:48 -0700 From: Edward Pilatowicz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: James Carlson , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <20080327193148.GB538993@eng.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com: edp set sender to edward.pilatowicz@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Status: RO Content-Length: 2214 On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 08:50:50AM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: > >On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 08:14:55AM -0400, James Carlson wrote: > > > >>I think the ARC would be derelict in its duty if it simply said "FOSS > >>means no expectation of source change." That may be true of some > >>projects, but certainly not of others, and the ARC should not be > >>presuming one magic answer for all cases. > >> > > > >Hmmm. Let me try again. > > > >For standalone utilities like Unison I don't agree. The ARC can > >reasonably ask lots of things (like that it be Secure By Default), but > >there's a fine line between asking for reasonable changes and killing > >the project. > > > >I think for libraries the ARC can and should be a lot more inquisitive, > >and potentially require many more changes. > > > >For core OS features the ARC should treat FOSS as any other Sun project. > > > > How does the consumer (in this case the user) know whether unison is a > "core OS feature", or some integration of perhaps lesser-quality or > otherwise inferior FOSS? > sigh. i'm really tired of this silly debate. this is simply my $0.02 and i probably won't reply to any replies to it. i'm actually more interested in the actual case at hand vs the general good vs bad software issue (which i think barts previous comments addressed wonderfully). you categorization of unison as "inferior FOSS" is totally subjective and inappropriate. unison is a wonderful tool that does exactly what it was designed todo. i'm a huge fan of high-quality software (go read my bug reports if you don't believe me) and i've been using unison on a daily basis for many years now. if you think that unison is "inferior" because it doesn't support all the features -you- want (like hard links) then it's FOSS, feel free to go change it. of course i've done lots of system administrator too, and guess what? when i needed to migrate data around that may have contained hard links then i didn't use unison. thankfully there are plenty of other tools available that. see: rsync, ufsdump/ufsrestore, etc. so please, stop judging the "quality" of some piece of software based on your personal feature set preferences. ed From casper@holland.sun.com Thu Mar 27 12:37:57 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RJbuOu025628 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RJbl5v015798; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:37:54 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE0060JMJ35R00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:37:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.192]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00JINMJ2U3B0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:37:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RJberZ023900; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:37:43 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:37:40 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080327193148.GB538993@eng.sun.com> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Edward Pilatowicz Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , James Carlson , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <200803271937.m2RJberZ023900@dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <20080327193148.GB538993@eng.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 760 >you categorization of unison as "inferior FOSS" is totally subjective >and inappropriate. unison is a wonderful tool that does exactly what >it was designed todo. i'm a huge fan of high-quality software (go read >my bug reports if you don't believe me) and i've been using unison on >a daily basis for many years now. I was reading this discussion in the light that unison is no longer an actively maintained project in a language few of us are familiar with and that fielding support anywhere for unison would be a tad difficult. Not so much "inferior" as we as "no known means of fixing it if it happens to be broken". But it's silly to have this discussion every time so perhaps we can just drop it and continue with the case at hand. Casper From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 27 12:54:18 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RJsHOY026430 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RJsFvc028612; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00L0DNAEL100@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00GAGNADZ1A0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2RJsCST619492; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:51:32 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, Don Cragun , Frank.Che@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <47EBFAC4.2070609@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 2967 This is no longer about Unison. Its about whose opinion counts when making integration decisions. As per Plocher, this belongs on its own thread. If such a thread is created, I'd be happy to contribute. - jek3 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Joseph Kowalski wrote: >> >> OK, I've gotten a couple of private messages about this. I was >> clearly unclear in what I said. >> >> My issue is that if this is "good enough" for the community (of Linux >> users), this is good enough to allow this to be integrated into >> Solaris. Sure, we have no idea how much this will bother Solaris >> users. Just the same, we have little idea about how much this >> already bothers Linux users. I am fairly sure that the pain (what >> ever it is) is about the same for both classes. >> >> I'll retract my statement that this is a P4 or P5 bug. Actually, its >> less than that, because it does conform to its specification, making >> this into an RFE. If this was a Sun funded project, we as the ARC >> would certainly question the decision to not support hardlinks. We >> might even add that as a TCR. However, this is the importation of >> FOSS. They already made the decision as to if hardlinks should be >> supported. We just have to live with that choice. >> >> We live in a different world than we are accustomed to living in. >> >> - jek3 > > Hang on a sec. I think what I'm hearing is that it is now OK to > accept architecturally inferior software into Solaris if it already > exists on Linux. (Note specifically that I'm not indicating anything > about how "widespread" its use is -- I don't think unison is in > widespread use... but I'm not really in a position to know.) > > The fundamental problem I have with that, is that when software that > is inferior (perhaps greatly so) is located in /usr/bin, the user has > *no* way to distinguish between "first class" software developed at > Sun's traditional quality standards, and various crapware that Sun has > just crammed into the distribution but which may have major flaws > which we "accept" because its "good enough for the Linux community". > The user who finds unison via "man -k" doesn't realize this > distinction, and assumes that the same level of support that comes > with other utilities (such as rsync or tar) comes with unison. > > Are we just abdicating all engineering responsibility here, so that > Solaris will ultimately become a mishmash of various bits of FOSS of > differing quality? I really hope not! > > unison as documented for this case, IMO, does *not* belong in any > default distribution of Solaris, but in some value add location where > folks who want it can get at it easily. I *really* believe that we > need to set some kind of precedent here defining what are appropriate > things to have in the core (and what are the quality and support > guarantees for such), versus what can go in some other ghetto repository. > > -- Garrett > From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 27 13:04:36 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RK4ZPo026598 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RK33tQ008589; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:04:25 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00711NRAUH00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00J0BNR9U4D0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2RK4KFi621628; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:01:40 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: James Carlson , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 920 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > How does the consumer (in this case the user) know whether unison is a > "core OS feature", or some integration of perhaps lesser-quality or > otherwise inferior FOSS? > > -- Garrett OK, I'd still like this moved to another thread, but... 1) The Attributes section tells the commitment level. That only addresses commitment level, not quality. 2) Go back to the original FOSS integration cases. There was significant discussion about this. It was decided that Sun had no right to make quality judgments about the quality of FOSS contributions relative to Sun contributions. (OK, we made a black/white judgment beyond including it or not, but nothing more.) 3) Its my belief that some FOSS contributions far Sun contributions. I sure hope we don't get foisted on our own petard. :-) - jek3 From binarycrusader@gmail.com Thu Mar 27 15:10:31 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RMAU8J001362 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RMAUGh006516 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00L1XTLIX200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00CKBTLFUZ90@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay12i.sun.com (ip122.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.122]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2RM9Zhx014326 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:10:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.sun.com ([160.41.209.24] [160.41.209.24]) by relay12i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-64068 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:10:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (relay13i.sun.com [129.179.4.123]) by mmp14es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-63135 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:10:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.162.182] [209.85.162.182]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-539400 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:10:27 +0000 (Z) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z25so2761507ele.6 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.101.17 with SMTP id y17mr1910236wfb.54.1206655290097; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.99.13 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:01:29 -0500 From: Shawn Walker Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> Sender: binarycrusader@gmail.com To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che , yan xue yang Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=b0dMRZZ6l88AqvY/LG09ei9bjEqmwkZ78KwhPrgIVSE=; b=Qz3z0dBmHpMT8gLE7vL9nsbq8UqgrXCHm7Q6/WE251qk6fH2qytnO48aAMWNLdWovx+B9toMebTUW7wfVcL7t0PUnESZ1W9utqZeaLGPNOVh5InliOU/HtIjBKdbypeoqNU60i7Pu04oZEPnGrKXqHcXc2oXPaGt4I88qu8rK6c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=HSfRk7ZXrJWRLtnnKJU4awsSj48UveLbMz9ObbwqXs2wkH7KsICmDs50KmqIk9BPeqKt7dcVK2lfaSWwW/8PuOunpAPyQlJZ2Bc1tZLBX7GWxCtBkATqiWluXOtq+wYojJdmY/gY4o10Hmtnj0MdZtaTyC9juVKr499ZvHE9ECc= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7f2471d1164c706b X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.095sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1086 On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Joseph Kowalski wrote: > 2) Go back to the original FOSS integration cases. > There was significant discussion about this. It was > decided that Sun had no right to make quality > judgments about the quality of FOSS contributions > relative to Sun contributions. (OK, we made a > black/white judgment beyond including it or not, > but nothing more.) I wasn't part of that discussion, but the items I've seen presented here so far have nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with user expectations. As a developer / admin, I expect all tools that Sun ships or claims to "support" to fully support all Solaris functionality. If I am given a tool to synchronise files, and not warned about its deficiencies relative to Solaris support, I would be one very unhappy customer when it didn't work as expected. -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ "To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so." - Robert Orben From edward.pilatowicz@sun.com Thu Mar 27 16:17:53 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RNHqG5004463 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RNHkjg003255; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:17:47 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00511WPLH000@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE001USWPK3370@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2RNHi6Y655605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from edp@localhost) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2/Submit) id m2RNHiQE655604; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:17:44 -0700 From: Edward Pilatowicz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: To: Shawn Walker Cc: Joseph Kowalski , "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che , yan xue yang Message-id: <20080327231744.GM538993@eng.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com: edp set sender to edward.pilatowicz@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Status: RO Content-Length: 1778 On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 05:01:29PM -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Joseph Kowalski wrote: > > 2) Go back to the original FOSS integration cases. > > There was significant discussion about this. It was > > decided that Sun had no right to make quality > > judgments about the quality of FOSS contributions > > relative to Sun contributions. (OK, we made a > > black/white judgment beyond including it or not, > > but nothing more.) > > I wasn't part of that discussion, but the items I've seen presented > here so far have nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with > user expectations. > > As a developer / admin, I expect all tools that Sun ships or claims to > "support" to fully support all Solaris functionality. > > If I am given a tool to synchronise files, and not warned about its > deficiencies relative to Solaris support, I would be one very unhappy > customer when it didn't work as expected. > you seem to think that as a developer/admin, you're somehow entitled to have higher expectations for software we ship. it's actually the other way around. since you are a developer/admin, i think it's resonable for "us" (the people shipping the software) to expect you to read the documentation and figure out if a tool is appropriate for the job you want to do. no tool i know of can read your mind to figure out how you expect it to work. this is the whole reason that we try to publish good documentation. the architectual (if you can call it that) take away from this entire discussion is that we simply add a comment to the unison man page saying that it doesn't support hard links, there by allowing you to adjust your expectations accordingly. ed From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Thu Mar 27 16:29:43 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RNTgKt004663 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RNTbNr021991; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:29:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00607X9CXP00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00CQZX9BUWD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2RNTZ5f009439; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:29:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp12es.sun.com ([160.41.209.22] [160.41.209.22]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-67462; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:29:35 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (relay14i.sun.com [129.179.4.124]) by mmp12es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4904220; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:29:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-12.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.52] [151.189.21.52]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-557068; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:29:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-18-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-18-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.35]) by mail-in-12.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4354C307; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:29:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-in-14.arcor-online.net (mail-in-14.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.54]) by mail-in-18-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C045100E6; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:29:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-019-099.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.19.99]) by mail-in-14.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559B3187825; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:29:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RNTVok001465; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:29:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:29:31 +0100 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6432/Thu Mar 27 22:18:40 2008 on mail-in-14.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.040sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1014 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. > > That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this > > is that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and > > storage needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO > > image, which also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of > > transferring and storing one 4G image, you are transferring and > > storing n * 4G. > > Yea, but who actually does this? At least I do it - and many applications and users will do it, too. And a look at usr/src/pkgdefs/ shows many many hardlinks being used in the package system, too. > The common use of hardlinks went away > with AT&T supporting UNIX. Huh ? Could you please give further details on the relationship between AT&T and hardlinks ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 27 16:45:48 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2RNjl0M004925 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2RNjfcE063212; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:45:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE0081TY07SE00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00CVNY07UTD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2RNjg7c660989; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:43:00 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080327193148.GB538993@eng.sun.com> To: Edward Pilatowicz Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , James Carlson , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <47EC3104.1020403@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <20080327193148.GB538993@eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 2387 Thank you! - jek3 Edward Pilatowicz wrote: > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 08:50:50AM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> Nicolas Williams wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 08:14:55AM -0400, James Carlson wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I think the ARC would be derelict in its duty if it simply said "FOSS >>>> means no expectation of source change." That may be true of some >>>> projects, but certainly not of others, and the ARC should not be >>>> presuming one magic answer for all cases. >>>> >>>> >>> Hmmm. Let me try again. >>> >>> For standalone utilities like Unison I don't agree. The ARC can >>> reasonably ask lots of things (like that it be Secure By Default), but >>> there's a fine line between asking for reasonable changes and killing >>> the project. >>> >>> I think for libraries the ARC can and should be a lot more inquisitive, >>> and potentially require many more changes. >>> >>> For core OS features the ARC should treat FOSS as any other Sun project. >>> >>> >> How does the consumer (in this case the user) know whether unison is a >> "core OS feature", or some integration of perhaps lesser-quality or >> otherwise inferior FOSS? >> >> > > sigh. i'm really tired of this silly debate. > this is simply my $0.02 and i probably won't reply to any replies to it. > > i'm actually more interested in the actual case at hand vs the general > good vs bad software issue (which i think barts previous comments addressed > wonderfully). > > you categorization of unison as "inferior FOSS" is totally subjective > and inappropriate. unison is a wonderful tool that does exactly what > it was designed todo. i'm a huge fan of high-quality software (go read > my bug reports if you don't believe me) and i've been using unison on > a daily basis for many years now. > > if you think that unison is "inferior" because it doesn't support > all the features -you- want (like hard links) then it's FOSS, feel free > to go change it. > > of course i've done lots of system administrator too, and guess what? > when i needed to migrate data around that may have contained hard links > then i didn't use unison. thankfully there are plenty of other tools > available that. see: rsync, ufsdump/ufsrestore, etc. > > so please, stop judging the "quality" of some piece of software based > on your personal feature set preferences. > > ed > > From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 27 17:03:48 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S03mCV005388 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S03kod002558 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:03:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE0022HYU91H00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:03:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE00ARAYSEYOC0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:02:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2S02crW664209 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:59:56 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EC082B.5020107@sun.com> To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47EC34FC.50809@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> <47EC082B.5020107@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 804 It has been noted that... > Joseph Kowalski wrote: > >> 3) Its my belief that some FOSS contributions far >> Sun contributions. > > I think you missed one or two vital words in this sentence ... I > *think* you meant sth akin to "are far superior to", but please > elaborate. Yep, that was what I intended to write (or something akin). Sun doesn't have a monopoly on quality software. Nor, does it have a better "8-ball" when it comes to making design decisions or trade-offs. The only place Sun has a significant advantage (IMHO) is our passion for making sure we set expectations for the stability of the interfaces of our software offerings. I think several people are broadening this single differentiator to include many other attributes of the software. Better? - jek3 From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 27 17:25:17 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S0PHK8005704 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S0PBIa003447; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYE00D2TZU03B00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYE009O7ZU0YJ20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2S0PAqf666467; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:22:29 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: To: Shawn Walker Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che , yan xue yang Message-id: <47EC3A45.1020301@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 2089 Shawn Walker wrote: > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Joseph Kowalski wrote: > >> 2) Go back to the original FOSS integration cases. >> There was significant discussion about this. It was >> decided that Sun had no right to make quality >> judgments about the quality of FOSS contributions >> relative to Sun contributions. (OK, we made a >> black/white judgment beyond including it or not, >> but nothing more.) >> > > I wasn't part of that discussion, but the items I've seen presented > here so far have nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with > user expectations. > Agreed. I hope my postings have been pretty clear that its not about quality. I've been trying to point out that Sun doesn't have a monopoly on quality. > As a developer / admin, I expect all tools that Sun ships or claims to > "support" to fully support all Solaris functionality. > You said "Sun ships". I'm not sure that's quite right in the context of OpenSolaris, but it probably doesn't matter. > If I am given a tool to synchronise files, and not warned about its > deficiencies relative to Solaris support, I would be one very unhappy > customer when it didn't work as expected. > In general, I actually agree with you. 100%. (Maybe more). Unfortunately, this means that Sun must alter all FOSS to meet these expectations. If we can't push these changes to the community, we must fork. Gets rather expensive. I'd rather Sun supported 1/10th as much FOSS it imports, but did a really good job of it for what remains. It seems that this is the minority view. (Perhaps the basis for a interesting discussion on some OpenSolaris forum?) Hence, there is some line between fully integrated into Solaris, support costs and "Linux expectations". Just remember the recent, laborious threads for some projects where the community places portability more than Solaris usability. Then again, last time I looked Linux supported hardlinks, so this isn't a Solaris issue at all... Right? - jek3 From jek3@sun.com Thu Mar 27 17:35:42 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S0ZgcC005751 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S0Zdcd014007; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00E010BFDC00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF009ZR0BFYJ30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2S0ZbJK667573; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:32:56 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <47EC3CB8.4020509@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 252 Roland Mainz wrote: > > Huh ? Could you please give further details on the relationship between > AT&T and hardlinks ? > Just history. Pre-SVr4, there were no symlinks in the AT&T primortial UNIX. They came from the SunOS4.x/SVr3 merge. - jek3 From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Thu Mar 27 18:29:07 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S1T7PP009079 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S1T4m0016721; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00B0D2SG9U00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF001M92SF3DE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2S1T2gj021669; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:29:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp12es.sun.com ([160.41.209.22] [160.41.209.22]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-70013; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:29:02 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (relay13i.sun.com [129.179.4.123]) by mmp12es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-30057; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:29:01 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.17] [153.96.1.17]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-589639; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:29:00 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de[host mailgw12] (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2S1PpCC019022; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:25:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2S1PWQi018808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:25:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2S1PW8o018586; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:25:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:25:32 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:25:28 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EC3CB8.4020509@sun.com> To: roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, jek3@sun.com Cc: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47ec4908.yGQ6gzNN8wtNwVZR%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 1.251sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> <47EC3CB8.4020509@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2008 01:25:32.0543 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DA2E8F0:01C89072] Status: RO Content-Length: 666 Joseph Kowalski wrote: > Roland Mainz wrote: > > > > Huh ? Could you please give further details on the relationship between > > AT&T and hardlinks ? > > > Just history. Pre-SVr4, there were no symlinks in the AT&T primortial > UNIX. They > came from the SunOS4.x/SVr3 merge. You could create symlinks in SVr3 but there was no lstat() in SVr3. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From binarycrusader@gmail.com Thu Mar 27 20:21:17 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S3LGC9011439 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S3L5C4017792 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:21:15 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00G0R7ZESG00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF00BXX7ZEPD30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2S3GeLL024211 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:21:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay41i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1111609 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:21:13 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3584391 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:20:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.188] [209.85.198.188]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3056649 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:20:59 +0000 (Z) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so21090rvf.8 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.15.19 with SMTP id s19mr1152366rvi.39.1206674458856; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.122.16 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:20:58 -0500 From: Shawn Walker Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <20080327231744.GM538993@eng.sun.com> Sender: binarycrusader@gmail.com To: Edward Pilatowicz Cc: Joseph Kowalski , "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che , yan xue yang Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=81w5ggOcvH8Yh3yp443VbNQNGL3ff3dRt1GeBaTC2LM=; b=lXFhRn167PQfEVB37FZ1ixqjNb325MXaLP4wGGN6NBBYyJ1C+lQAuOqeTN3UfyhaNoPs/W6e7hSpnvOT045pD/pFpm50KSGostdzm77VjDAQsdXcnOxJ9r1u8s72isdkkWnD+/fBXuGHI5slsjoQWHM6vnZnBpfOO/ZFmsKZUuw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=hrNktOgQrvvukFqpgXlcrcz0z9kEtrK53lmva5SON6ZH6Uspp2UzKysxJ681G8gQoUH49IIf4cfAm/0zsbmfhoQWLsN3D4JV3Pi0eU948Gg6v002w5Lii8BH4z+HRncuaaHtF4mw+9FykYX3jgPoVuhZrJmuq0ETb+s/DyQET0U= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Google-Sender-Auth: c61aa23e2476cfc8 X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.201sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> <20080327231744.GM538993@eng.sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 2563 On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Edward Pilatowicz wrote: > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 05:01:29PM -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Joseph Kowalski wrote: > > > 2) Go back to the original FOSS integration cases. > > > There was significant discussion about this. It was > > > decided that Sun had no right to make quality > > > judgments about the quality of FOSS contributions > > > relative to Sun contributions. (OK, we made a > > > black/white judgment beyond including it or not, > > > but nothing more.) > > > > I wasn't part of that discussion, but the items I've seen presented > > here so far have nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with > > user expectations. > > > > As a developer / admin, I expect all tools that Sun ships or claims to > > "support" to fully support all Solaris functionality. > > > > If I am given a tool to synchronise files, and not warned about its > > deficiencies relative to Solaris support, I would be one very unhappy > > customer when it didn't work as expected. > > > > you seem to think that as a developer/admin, you're somehow entitled > to have higher expectations for software we ship. it's actually the Yes, I do. I expect Sun to provide real value, and continue to separate themselves from the "me too" plethora of GNU/Linux distributions available. What has always set Sun apart, in my mind, is the documentation, and the general expectation of better software than what I get from GNU/Linux. > other way around. since you are a developer/admin, i think it's resonable > for "us" (the people shipping the software) to expect you to read the > documentation and figure out if a tool is appropriate for the job you Which is why I said "and not warned about its deficiencies relative to Solaris support." If the documentation clearly indicates what the limitations are, that's a different story. I would almost be completely satisfied if it was documented. However, there is a fine line here. If, for example, Sun were to ship a utility (such as a utility to change file owner) that when run, might cause me to lose all permission or ACL information, I feel as though I would have a right to be angry even if it was documented. Why would Sun ship such a hypothetical utility? -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ "To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so." - Robert Orben From binarycrusader@gmail.com Thu Mar 27 20:25:03 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S3P3Pa011496 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S3P2WY016041 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00I1185QBR00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF006C485P4890@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2S3ISug027275 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:25:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.sun.com ([160.41.209.23] [160.41.209.23]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-76988 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:25:01 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (relay13i.sun.com [129.179.4.123]) by mmp13es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-15421 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:25:00 +0000 (Z) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.186] [209.85.198.186]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-723432 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:25:00 +0000 (Z) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c27so20932rvf.8 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.168.7 with SMTP id v7mr1139335rvo.118.1206674600326; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.122.16 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:23:20 -0500 From: Shawn Walker Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EC3A45.1020301@sun.com> Sender: binarycrusader@gmail.com To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che , yan xue yang Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=pwMi7WXGyRyqLpd236Rvj6qWQx3ahYpgD5dbeukoCMU=; b=b85H8SfJvTIS38Odw7bHFgkCM1/PCki5wQub7QMXvQFBy5nx0fsH6eT1DVGXXFD9o8h0sHF88BWKbFu94Jk0OTNvKuAh4W5OBZy9Z+ffbmbTW/lUMcVB7CHeeiTFwe4NF+mGIWme3IXig4ar4VKPXwIy58GyLFUBQ2jvCr2G6GI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=bkB3bmAkBuInJ9BC4rfSllqJ0QwqYTMQffaxznVtkEW9cTKZx6rCl3L73ti6nz1s974IoSgetOBMEqFC2RmAHSSEAmoTCTsxkjQB7GNncEz3M3FrwQD3YZU+44ROuAQYPVRcrxRNpVEv0kN2FOBExGc5RulcEkeEe6B/HneGUfI= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2c1e24670da317fe X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.074sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> <47EC3A45.1020301@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1564 On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Joseph Kowalski wrote: > Shawn Walker wrote: > > If I am given a tool to synchronise files, and not warned about its > > deficiencies relative to Solaris support, I would be one very unhappy > > customer when it didn't work as expected. > > > In general, I actually agree with you. 100%. (Maybe more). > > Unfortunately, this means that Sun must alter all FOSS to meet these > expectations. If we can't push these changes to the community, we must > fork. Gets rather expensive. Right. But that, to me, is the difference between the GNU/Linux world (and others) and Sun. Just about anything Sun ships, I can depend on there being reliable, basic documentation for. I can tell what its support level is, whether or not I should use it, and glaring deficiencies just by typing "man ." > I'd rather Sun supported 1/10th as much FOSS it imports, but did a > really good job of it for what remains. It seems that this is the > minority view. (Perhaps the basis for a interesting discussion on some > OpenSolaris forum?) I would agree with that as well! I would rather see a small, but extremely polished, well-supported set of software from Sun, than a randoms smattering that I can tell apart. > Then again, last time I looked Linux supported hardlinks, so this isn't > a Solaris issue at all... Right? Indeed, it does. -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ "To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so." - Robert Orben From jek3@sun.com Fri Mar 28 00:38:13 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S7cCDr017140 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S7c7lt031418; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:38:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF0051RJVLOD00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF00BDMJVJPHF0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2S7c6Y5695698; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:35:25 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: To: Shawn Walker Cc: Edward Pilatowicz , "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che , yan xue yang Message-id: <47EC9FBD.8010900@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <20080324230116.GZ16998@Sun.COM> <18408.60607.184022.912716@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080325144935.GC16998@Sun.COM> <47EBC25A.4050308@sun.com> <47EBFD24.9070400@sun.com> <20080327231744.GM538993@eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071119) Status: RO Content-Length: 363 Shawn Walker wrote: > If, for example, Sun were to ship a utility (such as a utility to > change file owner) that when run, might cause me to lose all > permission or ACL information, I feel as though I would have a right > to be angry even if it was documented. Why would Sun ship such a > hypothetical utility? > Such as the not-so-hypothetical zip utility? From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Fri Mar 28 01:02:44 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S82iwv017769 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S82VRf004383 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00H0LL0GRY00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.101]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF002FBL0FL7A0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S82ctW019231 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:02:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-2.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-2.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.9]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2S8G9ij004653 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:16:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYF009KTL08YL60@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:02:33 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:00:11 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBA7FE.D77BE497@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47ECA58B.6040906@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> <47EB1093.4070808@sun.com> <47EB14C8.50B91941@nrubsig.org> <47EB172E.3090506@sun.com> <47EBA7FE.D77BE497@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 1366 Roland Mainz: >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > > >>Roland Mainz : >> >> >>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Roland Mainz : >>>> >>>> >>>>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Roland Mainz : >>>>>> >>>>>> >[snip] > > >>>>>Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 >>>>>multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>I used zh_CN.UTF-8 for yesterday's testing. It works. >>>> >>>>Today, I just did the test with zh_CN.GB18030. And the result is that >>>>the file synchronization works but the chinese characters can't be >>>>displayed correctly on the GUI. >>>> >>>> >>>Did the "unison" client, server and the GUI use the >>>"zh_CN.GB18030"-locale ? >>> >>> >>I run unison to synchronize two local folders on snv b85 with >>zh_CN.GB18030 locale. I used chinese charaters in folder name, file >>name and the file content during the testing. >> >> > >Ok... this means "unison" syncs the filenames in such a locale >correctly without ruining the characters (likely pass-through of the >strings) and only the GUI fails to display the characters, right ? If >"yes" - which toolkit (GTK+ ?) does it use ? > > Yes, correct. And it uses GTK+ by lablgtk2 (http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/lablgtk.html). >---- > >Bye, >Roland > > > From casper@holland.sun.com Fri Mar 28 02:15:24 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2S9FN1b019650 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S9FKMd000817; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:15:21 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00N01ODJ0Y00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.225]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF002NBODHL9E0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2S9FA4t003949; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:15:10 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:15:10 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Roland Mainz Cc: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang , Frank Che Message-id: <200803280915.m2S9FA4t003949@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> Status: RO Content-Length: 1120 >Joseph Kowalski wrote: >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> >> 4.3.4 Unison does not understand hard links. >> > That's pretty unfortunate. I guess the necessary consequence of this >> > is that Unison my dramatically increase the bandwidth needs and >> > storage needs on the remote side. Imagine synchronizing a 4G ISO >> > image, which also has hardlinks to other names -- instead of >> > transferring and storing one 4G image, you are transferring and >> > storing n * 4G. >> >> Yea, but who actually does this? > >At least I do it - and many applications and users will do it, too. And >a look at usr/src/pkgdefs/ shows many many hardlinks being used in the >package system, too. And I do it for /ws/tools which has a lot of duplication between versions (it saves about 80% of diskspace to hardlink identical files) >> The common use of hardlinks went away >> with AT&T supporting UNIX. > >Huh ? Could you please give further details on the relationship between >AT&T and hardlinks ? Symlinks didn't exist until SVR4 got them from BSD so I'm not sure what the point is (symlinks take a lot more diskspace) Casper From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Fri Mar 28 03:30:50 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SAUoCn020629 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SAUhoo015427; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF0051NRV9CQ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF002MGRV8JX20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2SAQtAG023451; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:30:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.sun.com ([160.41.221.231] [160.41.221.231]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2768175; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:30:44 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com (relay44i.sun.com [192.5.209.118]) by mms48es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1486331; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:30:43 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.17] [153.96.1.17]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2796024; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:30:42 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de[host mailgwb1] (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2SASe2u014255; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:28:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2SASVE6013368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:28:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2SAUH8N021105; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:30:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:30:17 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:30:17 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <200803280915.m2S9FA4t003949@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> To: roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, Casper.Dik@sun.com Cc: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47ecc8b9.bpngBcJPx1NoY5cP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.587sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> <200803280915.m2S9FA4t003949@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2008 10:30:17.0668 (UTC) FILETIME=[B77D3040:01C890BE] Status: RO Content-Length: 561 Casper.Dik@sun.com wrote: > Symlinks didn't exist until SVR4 got them from BSD so I'm not sure what > the point is (symlinks take a lot more diskspace) As I did already mention, this is definitely wrong. SVR3 did support symlinks, it did not have lstat().... Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com Fri Mar 28 03:39:37 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SAdalF020705 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SAdXZP005542 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:39:35 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00B03S9YQT00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF00MZIS9SP2A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2SAdSNr025110 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:39:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYF00H01RXESF00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Andrew.Gabriel@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:39:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.9.200.244] ([81.187.162.106]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYF00C6US9962C0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:39:15 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:38:55 +0000 From: Andrew Gabriel Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47ecc8b9.bpngBcJPx1NoY5cP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com To: Joerg Schilling Cc: roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, Casper.Dik@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47ECCABF.90205@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> <200803280915.m2S9FA4t003949@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> <47ecc8b9.bpngBcJPx1NoY5cP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080115) Status: RO Content-Length: 548 Joerg Schilling wrote: > Casper.Dik@sun.com wrote: > >> Symlinks didn't exist until SVR4 got them from BSD so I'm not sure what >> the point is (symlinks take a lot more diskspace) > > As I did already mention, this is definitely wrong. > > SVR3 did support symlinks, it did not have lstat().... SVR3.2 didn't support symlinks, but many distributions of it (such as Interactive UNIX and SCO) later added their own support for symlinks on top. It was pretty essential if you wanted to be able to be an NFS server, which they did. -- Andrew From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Fri Mar 28 03:53:50 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SArofS020884 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SArfWi025786; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:53:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00D0XSXJ6X00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF00MR7SXIP8A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay12i.sun.com (ip122.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.122]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2SApgqk029842; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:53:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.sun.com ([160.41.209.24] [160.41.209.24]) by relay12i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-86394; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:53:42 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay12i.sun.com (relay12i.sun.com [129.179.4.122]) by mmp14es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-95702; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:53:40 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw2-out.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.28] [153.96.1.28]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-868267; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:53:40 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw2-out.fraunhofer.de[host mailgw26] (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2SApHdd012664; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2SApFgx012583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2SAr744022251; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:53:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:53:07 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:53:07 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47ECCABF.90205@sun.com> To: Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com Cc: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com, Casper.Dik@sun.com Message-id: <47ecce13.u3Ado0RlyMuDMvaJ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 1.138sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> <200803280915.m2S9FA4t003949@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> <47ecc8b9.bpngBcJPx1NoY5cP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <47ECCABF.90205@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be mailgw26.noc.fraunhofer.de User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2008 10:53:07.0665 (UTC) FILETIME=[E8122410:01C890C1] Status: RO Content-Length: 1234 Andrew Gabriel wrote: > Joerg Schilling wrote: > > Casper.Dik@sun.com wrote: > > > >> Symlinks didn't exist until SVR4 got them from BSD so I'm not sure what > >> the point is (symlinks take a lot more diskspace) > > > > As I did already mention, this is definitely wrong. > > > > SVR3 did support symlinks, it did not have lstat().... > > SVR3.2 didn't support symlinks, but many distributions of it (such as > Interactive UNIX and SCO) later added their own support for symlinks on > top. It was pretty essential if you wanted to be able to be an NFS > server, which they did. Do you have an "AT&T" Source to check? I did not see a single SVr3 installation without symlinks. They have however been unusable because there only was a symlink(1) command and the symlink(2) syscall instead of "ln -s" and with ls(1) you could only guess that there have been symlinks because if the missing lstat(2). Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From casper@holland.sun.com Fri Mar 28 04:33:56 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SBXtuv022576 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SBXfFo028757; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:33:53 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00E01USHU100@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.225]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF00D3LUSFDT60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SBXjQ6011813; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:33:45 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:33:44 +0100 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47ecce13.u3Ado0RlyMuDMvaJ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Cc: Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, roland.mainz@nrubsig.org, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <200803281133.m2SBXjQ6011813@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> <200803280915.m2S9FA4t003949@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> <47ecc8b9.bpngBcJPx1NoY5cP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <47ECCABF.90205@sun.com> <47ecce13.u3Ado0RlyMuDMvaJ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Status: RO Content-Length: 536 >Do you have an "AT&T" Source to check? I did not see a single SVr3 installation >without symlinks. They have however been unusable because there only was a >symlink(1) command and the symlink(2) syscall instead of "ln -s" and with ls(1) >you could only guess that there have been symlinks because if the missing >lstat(2). Yes. And assuming it is properly indexed, it does not show readlink(), symlink(), S_IFLNK nor does it list S_IFLNK in The same indexing, BTW, does show those identifiers in SysVr4. Casper From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Fri Mar 28 04:51:27 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SBpRiD022699 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SBpOKk005954 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYF00J05VLQ1O00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYF00M8WVLPPAF0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2SBpO2n023761 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYF00201UXEQI00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.156.173.199] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYF00LIRVL6SS00@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:06 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:06 +0000 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: STOP NOW Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47ecce13.u3Ado0RlyMuDMvaJ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Joerg Schilling Cc: Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com, Casper.Dik@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Message-id: <47ECDBAA.5010907@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7D848.9040502@sun.com> <47E81FEE.3060202@sun.com> <47EC2DDB.9634D149@nrubsig.org> <200803280915.m2S9FA4t003949@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> <47ecc8b9.bpngBcJPx1NoY5cP%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <47ECCABF.90205@sun.com> <47ecce13.u3Ado0RlyMuDMvaJ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Status: RO Content-Length: 187 Please stop this completely offtopic conversation in the review of this case. It is totally irrelevant to the ARC review of this project and completely annoying. -- Darren J Moffat From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Fri Mar 28 08:09:20 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SF9JcI028301 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SF8s48025497; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:09:14 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYG00EDU4RCHK00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYG00DUQ4R9DG20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2SDWC6u029661; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:09:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.sun.com ([160.41.221.233] [160.41.221.233]) by relay41i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1197237; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:09:08 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay43i.sun.com (relay43i.sun.com [192.5.209.74]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-215008; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:09:07 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.17] [153.96.1.17]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6392345; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:05:58 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de[host mailgw10] (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2SF4lOO020230; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:04:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2SF4g2X020013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:04:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2SF2oTO002484; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:02:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:02:50 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:02:50 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> To: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com Cc: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com, don.cragun@sun.com Message-id: <47ed089a.tax2x5vbPeLCw/wU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-0.7/5.0, scanned in 0.261sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2008 15:02:50.0944 (UTC) FILETIME=[CACD1400:01C890E4] Status: RO Content-Length: 911 "Garrett D'Amore" wrote: > The fundamental problem I have with that, is that when software that is > inferior (perhaps greatly so) is located in /usr/bin, the user has *no* > way to distinguish between "first class" software developed at Sun's > traditional quality standards, and various crapware that Sun has just Using this kind of classification does not seem to be a good idea. Not all OSS is crapware and there is also crapware from Sun. It may be a good idea to classify the software on Solaris but this should be done based only on the quality and not based on just the origin. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From gdamore@sun.com Fri Mar 28 08:48:40 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SFmegA028918 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SFmdxQ026670; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYG000036L2A200@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYG00HER6L1JPC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2SFmbGP014099; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYG00L0166FCW00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYG00FU86KMSPE0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:48:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:45:02 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47ed089a.tax2x5vbPeLCw/wU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Joerg Schilling Cc: Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com, don.cragun@sun.com Message-id: <47ED127E.5080304@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> <47ed089a.tax2x5vbPeLCw/wU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Status: RO Content-Length: 1622 Joerg Schilling wrote: > "Garrett D'Amore" wrote: > > >> The fundamental problem I have with that, is that when software that is >> inferior (perhaps greatly so) is located in /usr/bin, the user has *no* >> way to distinguish between "first class" software developed at Sun's >> traditional quality standards, and various crapware that Sun has just >> > > Using this kind of classification does not seem to be a good idea. Not all > OSS is crapware and there is also crapware from Sun. > > It may be a good idea to classify the software on Solaris but this should > be done based only on the quality and not based on just the origin. > I agree wholeheartedly, and never meant to imply that all software written from Sun was superior, or that all FOSS was inferior. What I *do* think we need to do though, is classify the software that has made it through the Sun (or perhaps, better stated as OpenSolaris) *processes* (which also generally provide some basic support guarantees, and *tend* to weed out complete crapware). Stuff which we just pick up from some open source repo with no intention of changing, and which has known architectural deficiencies, shouldn't be placed in the same category as stuff that we fully commit to supporting, and which has had at least some architectural and cteam (and also code!) review. Put another way, unless the FOSS is willing to rise to the same bar as our "native" software, I don't think it should automatically get a free ride, at least not without some way for the user to understand that this has occurred. -- Garrett ` From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Fri Mar 28 12:54:17 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2SJsGgE005791 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2SJs8d1017673; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:54:11 GMT Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYG0082FHY8O900@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYG0015YHY7W1C0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay22.sun.com (relay22.sun.com [192.12.251.34] (may be forged)) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2SJpB1e005178; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:54:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms24es.sun.com ([150.143.232.74] [150.143.232.74]) by relay22i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1419303; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:54:06 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay22.sun.com (relay22.sun.com [192.12.251.34]) by mms24es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3001387; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:54:05 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.17] [153.96.1.17]) by relay22i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2842379; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:54:05 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de[host mailgw11] (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2SJrYos028279; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:53:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (8.13.5+/8.13.4) with ESMTP id m2SJrFgs027594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:53:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2SJqxwA014498; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:52:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:52:59 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:52:59 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47EBD0E9.6060808@Sun.COM> To: gdamore@sun.com, bart.smaalders@sun.com Cc: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com, don.cragun@sun.com Message-id: <47ed4c9b.tKwhrWO5suduxsYg%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.273sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> <47EBD0E9.6060808@Sun.COM> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2008 19:52:59.0720 (UTC) FILETIME=[533D7C80:01C8910D] Status: RO Content-Length: 1753 Bart Smaalders wrote: > You mean like an editor that won't work on terminals wider than > 160 characters? (that was Sun's vi until S10)... you mean like a version > of awk that breaks if the lines are longer than (gasp) 255 characters? > Like a packaging system that cannot handle installing dependencies? > Like a clustering software subsystem that effectively disables use of > all /proc tools on certain critical cluster processes? vi is not the worst example for Solaris. There are commands that do not compile without compiler warnings, there are many tools that have been compiled without function protytypes in the internal include files. If you add then prototypesm the software would not compile anymore at all because of incorrect calling parameters. The commands have not even all been checked for 64 bit correctness. As an example: execl*() call parameters are not closed with a null pointer but only with a null constant that results in a 32 bit NULL only... What you see is a result of the development method used for OpenSolaris. OpenSolaris development is currently locally event driven (a single event only causes work on a single utility). It should be globally event driven (a single event should result in a global code inspection). If the person who did make /usr/bin/diff work with any line length did also check all other sources, then we had a awk that works with infinite line length too. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From dan.mick@Sun.COM Fri Mar 28 21:23:25 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2T4NOGe022418 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2T4NLLZ024547 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-EXT@sun.com>; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:23:23 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYH005035IYIE00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYH00J245IX5K50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-EXT@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-EXT@sun.com); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.48.172] (dmick1.West.Sun.COM [10.1.48.172]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2T4NL89049106; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:23:17 -0700 From: Dan Mick Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> To: Don Cragun , PSARC-EXT@Sun.COM Message-id: <47EDC435.8070407@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070419) Status: RO Content-Length: 490 Don Cragun wrote: > We do it all the time. Have you forgotten that the cp, ln, and mv > utilities are linked? There are currently 90 links to /usr/bin/ksh93 > on jurassic-x4600. I personally have hard links to several files under > my home directory; they are not multi-gigabyte files, but the > synchronization issue remain the same no matter how big the files are. But unison isn't likely to be used to duplicate system utilities, and user data is much less likely to be hardlinked. From Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de Sat Mar 29 04:47:36 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2TBlagl009609 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m2TBlY5M021338; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYH00A01Q3AMR00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYH002NXQ39MF40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 04:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m2TBgjMO026449; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:47:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.sun.com ([160.41.221.233] [160.41.221.233]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2941550; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:47:32 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mms49es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-876139; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:47:32 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de ([153.96.1.17] [153.96.1.17]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4370579; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:47:05 +0000 (Z) Received: from mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de[host mailgw21] (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2TBjPXS009727; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:45:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) by mailgw1.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2+/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2TBjHYH009524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:45:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.13.7/8.13.7) with SMTP id m2TBjWID022363; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:45:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:45:32 +0100 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:45:32 +0100 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47ED127E.5080304@sun.com> To: gdamore@sun.com Cc: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com, don.cragun@sun.com Message-id: <47ee2bdc.o/7eopWQfJpzZubI%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Fraunhofer-Email-Policy: accepted X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.099sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> <47ed089a.tax2x5vbPeLCw/wU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <47ED127E.5080304@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2008 11:45:32.0992 (UTC) FILETIME=[653EB400:01C89192] Status: RO Content-Length: 2299 "Garrett D'Amore" wrote: > Joerg Schilling wrote: > > It may be a good idea to classify the software on Solaris but this should > > be done based only on the quality and not based on just the origin. > > > > I agree wholeheartedly, and never meant to imply that all software > written from Sun was superior, or that all FOSS was inferior. What I > *do* think we need to do though, is classify the software that has made > it through the Sun (or perhaps, better stated as OpenSolaris) > *processes* (which also generally provide some basic support guarantees, > and *tend* to weed out complete crapware). Stuff which we just pick up So you like to propose that software on OpenSolaris gets a crapware tag if it has enough bug reports that do not get fixed for a long time? This would add "crapware" tags to a lot of software from Sun. I am not trying to find the most important problems here but let me give some examples I can easily remember: Sun tar did have this tag for not creating/reading POSIX compliant archives 'till late 2004. Sun tar did have this tag for not being able to extract ACLs correctly 'till mid 2006 (IIRC). pcfs did have this tag now for eating up all memory when mounting certain filesystems and for freezing the OS with multiple copy operations. There is not yet a "OpenSolaris process", but the "Solaris process" does not _guarantee_ a better quality nor does it really give a support guarantee. One current problem is that core technology like UFS, PCFS and HSFS has been moved to "sustained support". At least pcfs and hsfs would need a lot of development effort to make them halfway complete for current use cases. Another problem is that customers who do not releatedly complain about their problems may have to wait a long time for a fix. On the other side, OSS from various sources in many cases offers faster "repair cycles" if a problem is reported to the author. Conclusion: It is not a simple black and white game. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Frank.Che@sun.com Tue Apr 1 02:32:02 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m319W1Jl002515 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m319VgZt000439 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:32:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYN00M0D3TBT400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYN00HG03T9E3D0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m319W70r003914 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:32:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JYN00L013BDYO00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:31:34 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYN00BGX3SLMH6M@mail-apac.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:31:33 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:32:32 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: yan xue yang Message-id: <47F20130.80007@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 1063 Hi All, Here is a summary of issues discovered by now, as well as proposals from project team on these issues. If I missed any pending issues, please point it out. Also, I'd like to extend the timer of this case to 04/07/2008. Issue 1: Unison doesn't support ACL or extended file attributes. Proposal: add this to the man page. Issue 2: Could Unison be a Committed interface? Proposal: Considering that *) There is still active bug fix activity in the community; *) The compatibility may be broken between release update in the community; *) Unison is purely a user level application, the possibility that other Sun products rely on it is very low; Project team propose to use 'Uncommitted' stability level for /usr/bin/unison. Issue 3: Maintenance and support Proposal: project team commit to import community bug fix when necessary in the future. A few other issues, such as * how unison will be integrated into the gate? * how the socket method work? I think they have been answered clearly, so I will not repeat here. -Frank From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Tue Apr 1 02:45:56 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m319jue6002553 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m319jjkg008986; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:45:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYN002174GDRP00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYN00B8N4GC7IC0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay12i.sun.com (ip122.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.122]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m319jmx6004089; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:45:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.sun.com ([160.41.209.23] [160.41.209.23]) by relay12i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-226952; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:45:48 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (relay14i.sun.com [129.179.4.124]) by mmp13es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-33501; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:45:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-14.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.54] [151.189.21.54]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2883076; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:45:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-14-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-14-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.31]) by mail-in-14.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0286118761D; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:44:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-14-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8491100C2; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:44:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-024-183.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.24.183]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036053425E2; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:44:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m319ifej002604; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:44:42 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:44:41 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Standard form for ARC cases ? / was: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Bart Smaalders , opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org, arc-discuss@opensolaris.org Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Don Cragun , Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Reply-to: opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org, arc-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <47F20409.D9A99AC8@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6525/Tue Apr 1 05:16:16 2008 on mail-in-09.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.102sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> <47EBD0E9.6060808@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 3517 Bart Smaalders wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > Hang on a sec. I think what I'm hearing is that it is now OK to accept > > architecturally inferior software into Solaris if it already exists on > > Linux. > > ... > > Are we just abdicating all engineering responsibility here, so that > > Solaris will ultimately become a mishmash of various bits of FOSS of > > differing quality? I really hope not! > > You mean like an editor that won't work on terminals wider than > 160 characters? (that was Sun's vi until S10)... you mean like a version > of awk that breaks if the lines are longer than (gasp) 255 characters? Or many system utilities which do not support multibyte characters, which codebase (mainly OS/Net) is not 64bit-clean (which means: Cannot be compiled as 64bit code - which makes it currently impossible to port OpenSolaris to platforms which are 64bit-only) and so on... ... maybe it would be usefull to have some kind of "standard form" for ARC cases which asks the following things (examples... AFAIK there are more things which should be asked): ---- cut ---- cut ---- cut ---- cut ---- cut ---- 1. Does the code have any input/output/processing limits of any kind (e.g. "awk" not being able to work beyond 255 characters or /usr/xpg4/bin/sed unable to handle more than 100 commands (this kind of problem makes it impossible to compile OS/Net using the XPG4/XPG6 tools)) ? If there are such limits please write a justification (min. 200 words) why this limit is needed. 2. Is the application a) CSI-enabled, supports b) only UTF-8 locales (many GNU tools fall into this category) or c) is it completely unable to handle multibyte characters ? If there the application is not fully CSI-enabled please write a justification (min. 200 words) why this limitation is needed. 3. Is the codebase 64bit clean [yes]/[no] (not technically an ARC question but it is imortant since the non-64bit cleanness of the OS/Net codebase _killed_ one OpenSolaris port and other port had to add artificial 32bit support just to get the gate tools running) ? If the codebase is not 64bit clean write a justification (min. 600 words) why the code cannot be made 64bit clean. 4. Do the utilities described in the ARC case intersect with any POSIX/SUS standards (e.g. GNU grep vs. POSIX "grep" spec etc.) ? If "yes" do they conform to the standard ? If they do not conform to the standard please file a justification why this is neccesary (min. 200 words). 5. Is the proposed (library) API completely threadsafe, without using (hidden) global or thread-local variables (for example the FUSE API relies on thread-local variables which makes it nearly impossible to implement FUSE bindings for languages which do not support the concept of thread-local storage) ? 6. Is the proposed (library) API async-signal safe ? 7. Is the application largefile aware ? ---- cut ---- cut ---- cut ---- cut ---- cut ---- (the idea to write "justifications" with words is more or less thought as way to nudge the engineers to check whether it's easy/easier to fix the code and than do it if possible - noone likes to write pointless "justifications" with a few hundred words... =:-) ) ---- Bye, Roland P.S.: Setting Reply-To: to { opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org, arc-discuss@opensolaris.org } to get the followup discussion off the Unison ARC case... -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Tue Apr 1 03:11:28 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m31ABRMs003430 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 03:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m31ABDxd009710; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:11:23 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYN005055MX8V00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:11:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYN004CK5MUCR10@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m31ABIsS029901; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:11:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JYN000015F7YO00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:11:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.199] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYN00H1X5MTL300@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:11:17 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:11:17 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: Standard form for ARC cases ? / was: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47F20409.D9A99AC8@nrubsig.org> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org, arc-discuss@opensolaris.org Cc: Bart Smaalders , "Garrett D'Amore" , Joseph.Kowalski@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Don Cragun , Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com, Frank.Che@sun.com Message-id: <47F20A45.9030105@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200803242352.m2ONqCkG005510@spartan.eng.sun.com> <47E84782.3050303@sun.com> <47EBC125.6030309@sun.com> <47EBD0E9.6060808@Sun.COM> <47F20409.D9A99AC8@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Status: RO Content-Length: 484 Roland Mainz wrote: > ... maybe it would be usefull to have some kind of "standard form" for > ARC cases which asks the following things (examples... AFAIK there are > more things which should be asked): At least 20 things :-) http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/handbook/questionnaire/ Specifically question number 11. and for security issues there is another questionnaire: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/security-questions/ -- Darren J Moffat From jek3@sun.com Wed Apr 2 11:52:34 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m32IqYk3013880 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m32IqVKU003608; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYP0050JOFIWG00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYP0000BOFIPN70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m32IqTSM257958; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:52:29 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47F20130.80007@sun.com> To: Frank Che Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, yan xue yang Message-id: <47F3D5ED.4000501@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47F20130.80007@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (X11/20070227) Status: RO Content-Length: 3581 Frank Che wrote: > Hi All, > > Here is a summary of issues discovered by now, as well as proposals from > project team on these issues. If I missed any pending issues, please > point it out. > > Also, I'd like to extend the timer of this case to 04/07/2008. > > Issue 1: Unison doesn't support ACL or extended file attributes. > Proposal: add this to the man page. > > Issue 2: Could Unison be a Committed interface? > Proposal: Considering that > *) There is still active bug fix activity in the community; > *) The compatibility may be broken between release update in the > community; > *) Unison is purely a user level application, the possibility that > other Sun products rely on it is very low; > Project team propose to use 'Uncommitted' stability level for > /usr/bin/unison. > > Issue 3: Maintenance and support > Proposal: project team commit to import community bug fix when > necessary in the future. > > A few other issues, such as > * how unison will be integrated into the gate? > * how the socket method work? > I think they have been answered clearly, so I will not repeat here. > > -Frank As I mentioned at PSARC, I don't believe everything has been answered clearly (although I hadn't seen this message at the time I expressed that concern). See the following from 3/25. Clearly this message answers part of my concern. As far as your Issue 3 above, could you say more about who the "project team" is in the maintenance sense? Is there a persistent group which will take on this burden? (Maybe this is more of a c-team issue than an architctural issue.) Anyway, I didn't see any response to my first bullet (and sub-bullets). My second and third bullets seem to have been partially covered, but I'd like a little more detail. My assertion about Unison necessarily being Volatile may not be correct, depending upon the other answers. - thanks, - jek3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roland Mainz wrote: > Erm..."devils advocate" question: If Unison is no longer maintained... > why should it be integrated into (Open)Solaris ? And how do other OSes > (like Linux) handle the support issue (e.g. no upstream where they can > send the bug reports to) ? > I see that there has been significant discussion spawned from Roland's "devil's advocate" question. I think its a very important question (thanks Ronald!). However, the resulting thread seems to be a little amorphous. I'd like to see concrete answers to... 1) For some reason we need to rebuild Unison. How do we (or other distros based on OpenSolaris) do that? (ie: occum) 1a) Is there any precedent for a binary delivery of an executable? 1b) What are the guarantees that this isn't some kind of "trojan horse"? (Yea, I know its unlikely, but....) 2) A reason might need to rebuild Unison, would be the discovery of a security hole. What do we do? Who fixes it? Would the response from Sun to be simply remove it (because its not worth the resources)? (Other distros can make their own choice.) 3) Its unlikely, but what if the fix to this mythical security hole requires an API/CLI modification. Do we just fork from the accepted interface? #2 and #3 seems to make it a requirement that this be Volatile (or Obsolete Volatile). I can't assert that I know an obvious answer for the other questions above. Is this appropriate for a fast-track? (Because the support issues are new ground?) - jek3 From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Thu Apr 3 04:51:39 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m33BpcZZ010852 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 04:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m33BpOo9006506 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:51:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYQ00D03ZM0UL00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYQ00HN5ZLYTAD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m33Bq2Vb025500 for ; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:52:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JYQ00M01ZFKT600@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Xue-Yang.Yan@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:51:28 +0800 (SGT) Received: from C7442C2CE1E94CF ([125.33.64.153]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYQ003RPZLOMJRX@mail-apac.sun.com>; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:51:28 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:51:29 +0800 From: yan xue yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <001901c89581$1069d430$0301a8c0@C7442C2CE1E94CF> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47F20130.80007@sun.com> <47F3D5ED.4000501@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 5670 Hi Joseph, My comments are inline, thanks. Regards, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Kowalski" To: "Frank Che" Cc: ; "yan xue yang" Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:52 AM Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris > Frank Che wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> Here is a summary of issues discovered by now, as well as proposals from >> project team on these issues. If I missed any pending issues, please >> point it out. >> >> Also, I'd like to extend the timer of this case to 04/07/2008. >> >> Issue 1: Unison doesn't support ACL or extended file attributes. >> Proposal: add this to the man page. >> >> Issue 2: Could Unison be a Committed interface? >> Proposal: Considering that >> *) There is still active bug fix activity in the community; >> *) The compatibility may be broken between release update in the >> community; >> *) Unison is purely a user level application, the possibility that >> other Sun products rely on it is very low; >> Project team propose to use 'Uncommitted' stability level for >> /usr/bin/unison. >> >> Issue 3: Maintenance and support >> Proposal: project team commit to import community bug fix when >> necessary in the future. >> >> A few other issues, such as >> * how unison will be integrated into the gate? >> * how the socket method work? >> I think they have been answered clearly, so I will not repeat here. >> >> -Frank > As I mentioned at PSARC, I don't believe everything has been answered > clearly (although I hadn't seen this message at the time I expressed > that concern). See the following from 3/25. Clearly this message > answers part of my concern. > > As far as your Issue 3 above, could you say more about who the "project > team" is in the maintenance sense? Is there a persistent group which > will take on this burden? (Maybe this is more of a c-team issue than an > architctural issue.) The "project team" is the person who do the porting job for unison. We will continue to keep track of the update version of unison and try to integrate the new version of unison into solaris. > > Anyway, I didn't see any response to my first bullet (and sub-bullets). > > My second and third bullets seem to have been partially covered, but I'd > like a little more detail. > > My assertion about Unison necessarily being Volatile may not be correct, > depending upon the other answers. > > - thanks, > > - jek3 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Roland Mainz wrote: > > Erm..."devils advocate" question: If Unison is no longer maintained... > > why should it be integrated into (Open)Solaris ? And how do other OSes > > (like Linux) handle the support issue (e.g. no upstream where they can > > send the bug reports to) ? > > > I see that there has been significant discussion spawned from Roland's > "devil's > advocate" question. I think its a very important question (thanks Ronald!). > However, the resulting thread seems to be a little amorphous. I'd like > to see > concrete answers to... > > 1) For some reason we need to rebuild Unison. How do we (or other > distros based on OpenSolaris) do that? (ie: occum) We don't integrate a binary delivery into the sfwnv, but integrate the source code into sfwnv. The following is the detail how the compilation is done: We'll putback the source code of unison(unison-2.27.57.tar.gz), lablgtk(lablgtk-2.10.1.tar.gz) and ocaml(ocaml-3.09.2.tar.gz) to sfwnv gate. Ocaml is for the CAML compiler, and lablgtk provides the libraries which will be statically linked by unison. Lablgtk and ocaml will be only used during the compilation. Finally, there will be one package SUNWunison generated. And one file unsion(executable) and one file(unison.1) for man page are in the SUNWunison package. > > 1a) Is there any precedent for a binary delivery of an executable? > > 1b) What are the guarantees that this isn't some kind of "trojan horse"? > (Yea, I know its unlikely, but....) Question 1a) and 1b) are based on we are going to integrate a binary delivery, but we are not... > > 2) A reason might need to rebuild Unison, would be the discovery of > a security hole. What do we do? Who fixes it? Would the response > from Sun to be simply remove it (because its not worth the > resources)? > (Other distros can make their own choice.) Unison is no longer under active development as a research project. However, the original developers are all still using Unison daily. It will continue to be maintained and supported for the foreseeable future, and they will occasionally release new versions with bug fixes, small improvements, and contributed patches. We will keep track on unison and try to integrate new version of unsion. As for the socket method in unison, unison is not a daemon program but a hight level user application, it's up to the user to decide whether to choose socket method or not, and this shortcoming has been already documented in the manual. > > 3) Its unlikely, but what if the fix to this mythical security hole > requires an > API/CLI modification. Do we just fork from the accepted interface? > > #2 and #3 seems to make it a requirement that this be Volatile (or > Obsolete Volatile). The answer is same as the answer in question 2. > > I can't assert that I know an obvious answer for the other questions above. > > Is this appropriate for a fast-track? (Because the support issues are > new ground?) > > - jek3 > > > > > > > > From jek3@sun.com Thu Apr 3 16:29:51 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m33NTpLH007792 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m33NTnax029582; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYR00309VXPD500@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYR00EDPVXOYK50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m33NTl9o513337; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:29:40 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <001901c89581$1069d430$0301a8c0@C7442C2CE1E94CF> To: yan xue yang Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47F56864.3060807@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47F20130.80007@sun.com> <47F3D5ED.4000501@sun.com> <001901c89581$1069d430$0301a8c0@C7442C2CE1E94CF> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Status: RO Content-Length: 836 yan xue yang wrote: > We don't integrate a binary delivery into the sfwnv, but integrate the > source code into sfwnv. Sorry, I must of misread something. (Or did this change in the **long** thread?) > The following is the detail how the compilation > is done: > > We'll putback the source code of unison(unison-2.27.57.tar.gz), > lablgtk(lablgtk-2.10.1.tar.gz) and ocaml(ocaml-3.09.2.tar.gz) to sfwnv > gate. Ocaml is for the CAML compiler, and lablgtk provides the libraries > which will be statically linked by unison. Lablgtk and ocaml will be > only used during the compilation. Finally, there will be one package > SUNWunison generated. And one file unsion(executable) and one > file(unison.1) for man page are in the SUNWunison package. > So this appropriate ocaml compilers is captured beside the Unison sources? - jek3 From Frank.Che@sun.com Thu Apr 3 17:40:33 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m340eXls008906 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m340eUCv017593 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 4 Apr 2008 01:40:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYR0000JZ7I8100@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.19.7]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYR00EG0Z7GORB0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m340euED010081 for ; Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:40:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JYR00601YZZQJ00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:40:22 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.150.144.27] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JYR003NMZ77MJJZ@mail-apac.sun.com>; Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:40:22 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:40:28 +0800 From: frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47F56864.3060807@sun.com> Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: Joseph Kowalski Cc: yan xue yang , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <47F578FC.2050802@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47F20130.80007@sun.com> <47F3D5ED.4000501@sun.com> <001901c89581$1069d430$0301a8c0@C7442C2CE1E94CF> <47F56864.3060807@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) Status: RO Content-Length: 209 Joseph Kowalski 写é“: > So this appropriate ocaml compilers is captured beside the Unison > sources? Yes. Considering that it's not of general purpose usage, it will not be delivered to end user. Frank. From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Sat Apr 5 19:59:46 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m362xjok001627 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2008 19:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m362xWIr003722; Sun, 6 Apr 2008 03:59:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYV00H0JUZFN600@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYV00I0PUZB0X70@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m362xYl3006498; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:59:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.sun.com ([160.41.209.23] [160.41.209.23]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-417573; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:59:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay16i.sun.com (relay16i.sun.com [129.179.4.126]) by mmp13es.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-192723; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:59:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-17.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.57] [151.189.21.57]) by relay1ib.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4173639; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:59:33 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-09-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.21]) by mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3C42BC1EE; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:59:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-10.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.50]) by mail-in-09-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1939C28EDD5; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:59:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-084-059-001-044.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.1.44]) by mail-in-10.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D552351A2; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:59:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m362xVmF001257; Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:59:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:59:31 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: Yan Xue Yang Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47F83C93.BAB3F20E@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6628/Sun Apr 6 03:14:00 2008 on mail-in-10.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.124sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> <47EB1093.4070808@sun.com> <47EB14C8.50B91941@nrubsig.org> <47EB172E.3090506@sun.com> <47EBA7FE.D77BE497@nrubsig.org> <47ECA58B.6040906@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1642 Yan Xue Yang wrote: > Roland Mainz: > >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > >>Roland Mainz : > >>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: > >>>>Roland Mainz : > >>>>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: > >>>>>>Roland Mainz : > >>>>>Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 > >>>>>multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? > >>>>> > >>>>I used zh_CN.UTF-8 for yesterday's testing. It works. > >>>> > >>>>Today, I just did the test with zh_CN.GB18030. And the result is that > >>>>the file synchronization works but the chinese characters can't be > >>>>displayed correctly on the GUI. > >>>> > >>>Did the "unison" client, server and the GUI use the > >>>"zh_CN.GB18030"-locale ? > >>> > >>I run unison to synchronize two local folders on snv b85 with > >>zh_CN.GB18030 locale. I used chinese charaters in folder name, file > >>name and the file content during the testing. > > > >Ok... this means "unison" syncs the filenames in such a locale > >correctly without ruining the characters (likely pass-through of the > >strings) and only the GUI fails to display the characters, right ? If > >"yes" - which toolkit (GTK+ ?) does it use ? > > Yes, correct. And it uses GTK+ by lablgtk2 > (http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/lablgtk.html). Is there a way to figure out whether the character corruption in the GUI comes from LablGTK or GTK+ itself (which may be usefull to know to decide which team needs to be tortured with a bug report... =:-) ) ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Xue-Yang.Yan@sun.com Mon Apr 7 01:29:59 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m378Tw6x008601 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 01:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m378TrRX011088 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:29:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JYY001054XU6G00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.101]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JYY008AM4XTDN60@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 07 Apr 2008 01:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (sineb-smtp-1.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.4]) by dm-singapore-01.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m378TqrE029384 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:29:52 +0800 (SGT) Received: from phys-sedge1-2.singapore.sun.com (phys-sedge1-2.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.123.9]) by sineb-smtp-1.singapore.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m378hSH3007597 for <@smarthost.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 08:43:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [129.158.218.53] by sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JYY002HI4XMG0D0@sedge1-mail1.singapore.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:29:47 +0800 (SGT) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:27:29 +0800 From: Yan Xue Yang Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47F83C93.BAB3F20E@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Frank Che Message-id: <47F9DAF1.5030702@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: zh-cn X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> <47E7DA72.5080001@sun.com> <47E8C403.4060102@sun.com> <47E90B63.3000105@sun.com> <47EA069A.8040506@sun.com> <47EA0981.1522F799@nrubsig.org> <47EA1313.2020907@sun.com> <47EA4BD7.95B31640@nrubsig.org> <47EB1093.4070808@sun.com> <47EB14C8.50B91941@nrubsig.org> <47EB172E.3090506@sun.com> <47EBA7FE.D77BE497@nrubsig.org> <47ECA58B.6040906@sun.com> <47F83C93.BAB3F20E@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; zh-CN; rv:1.7) Gecko/20060627 Status: RO Content-Length: 2042 Roland Mainz ÒÑдÈë: >Yan Xue Yang wrote: > > >>Roland Mainz: >> >> >>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Roland Mainz : >>>> >>>> >>>>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Roland Mainz : >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Yan Xue Yang wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Roland Mainz : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Which locale did you use (my main interest is whether non-UTF-8 >>>>>>>multibyte encodings as used for zh_CN.GB18030 will work or not...) ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>I used zh_CN.UTF-8 for yesterday's testing. It works. >>>>>> >>>>>>Today, I just did the test with zh_CN.GB18030. And the result is that >>>>>>the file synchronization works but the chinese characters can't be >>>>>>displayed correctly on the GUI. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Did the "unison" client, server and the GUI use the >>>>>"zh_CN.GB18030"-locale ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>I run unison to synchronize two local folders on snv b85 with >>>>zh_CN.GB18030 locale. I used chinese charaters in folder name, file >>>>name and the file content during the testing. >>>> >>>> >>>Ok... this means "unison" syncs the filenames in such a locale >>>correctly without ruining the characters (likely pass-through of the >>>strings) and only the GUI fails to display the characters, right ? If >>>"yes" - which toolkit (GTK+ ?) does it use ? >>> >>> >>Yes, correct. And it uses GTK+ by lablgtk2 >>(http://wwwfun.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/soft/olabl/lablgtk.html). >> >> > >Is there a way to figure out whether the character corruption in the GUI >comes from LablGTK or GTK+ itself (which may be usefull to know to >decide which team needs to be tortured with a bug report... =:-) ) ? > >---- > > GTK+ provides the Localization and Internationalization features.(http://www.gtk.org/features.html). I think we also need to document this into the man page. And we'll check with original developers regarding the multilanguage support in unison. >Bye, >Roland > > > From Frank.Che@sun.com Wed Apr 9 03:32:51 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m39AWo8n006577 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 03:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m39AWlL4002614 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:32:49 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZ100301ZYNEV00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZ10014FZYLIL20@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-apac-05.sun.com (fe-apac-05.sun.com [192.18.19.176] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m39AWw7f023964 for ; Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:32:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JZ100C01ZWIVJ00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:32:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZ1004ELZYCPGAE@mail-apac.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:32:37 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:33:11 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> Sender: Frank.Che@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: yan xue yang Message-id: <47FC9B67.10208@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 687 This case was timeout on this Monday. I see there is no more discussion on it, so updated the case material to reflect the changes suggested. Stability level of '/usr/bin/unison' was changed from 'Committed' to 'Uncommitted', new case material was saved as 'spec.txt' in the case directory. The man page was also updated to mention the limitation on ACL and extended file attributes synchronization; stability level was also updated to 'Uncommitted'. For the multilanguage support issue, the project team will contact the author of Unison to determine how to precisely document the limitation. New man page was saved as 'unison.man.update.txt' in the case directory. -Frank. From Frank.Che@Sun.COM Wed Apr 9 18:37:42 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3A1bgSs013987 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3A1bgQb027179 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZ300D015UTBW00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.19.6]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZ300AHW5USVZ20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3A1bqii017831 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:37:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JZ3005015RFFP00@mail-apac.sun.com> (original mail from Frank.Che@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:37:07 +0800 (SGT) Received: from [129.158.218.60] by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZ300B4T5TFRGQ8@mail-apac.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:36:55 +0800 (SGT) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:37:49 +0800 From: Frank Che Subject: Re: PSARC 2008/212 Integrate Unison into Solaris In-reply-to: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> Sender: Frank.Che@Sun.COM To: PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, yan xue yang Message-id: <47FD6F6D.1030607@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <47E78C12.7080500@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20070606 Status: RO Content-Length: 40 Closed approved in PSARC today. Frank.