From Mon May 19 11:56:44 2008 Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 11:56:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Postmaster Subject: Message from mail server Content-Length: 94 Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO X-IMAP: 1211223404 21 Delete. This is a system message. --END+PSEUDO-- From dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com Fri Apr 25 09:19:12 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PGJBEf029312 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PGIwsn001199; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:19:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00K0D2NV7W00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00BNN2NVM2C0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (new-sac.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.175.65]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PGJ5L5044194; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PGJ4pu029307; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dhain@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id m3PGJ483029303; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:19:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Hain Subject: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 3411 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000001 I am sponsoring this case for Martina Tomisova. Timeout is set for 5/02/2008. Man pages and the default configuration file are in the case directory. Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.66 04/17/08 SMI This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Integrate lftp into Solaris 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Martina Tomisova 1.3 Date of This Document: 25 April, 2008 4. Technical Description Proposal: Integrate lftp into Solaris. Detail: LFTP is sophisticated file transfer program with command line interface. It supports FTP, HTTP, FISH, SFTP, HTTPS and FTPS protocols. Every operation in lftp is reliable, that is any non-fatal error is handled and the operation is retried automatically. LFTP has shell-like command syntax allowing you to launch several commands in parallel in background (&) etc. If you exit lftp when some jobs are not finished yet, lftp will move itself to nohup mode in background. The same happens when you have a real modem hangup or when you close an xterm. LFTP has builtin mirror which can download or update a whole directory tree. There is command 'at' to launch a job at specified time in current context, command 'queue' to queue commands for sequential execution for current server, and much more. LFTP supports IPv6 for both FTP and HTTP protocols. LFTP supports secure versions of the protocols FTP and HTTP: FTPS (explicit and implicit) and HTTPS. The current version of lftp is 3.6.3 at the time of this case. Deliverables: /etc/lftp.conf /usr/share/man/man1/lftp.1 /usr/share/man/man1/lftpget.1 /usr/share/lftp/verify-file /usr/share/lftp/import-netscape /usr/share/lftp/import-ncftp /usr/share/lftp/convert-netscape-cookies /usr/bin/lftpget /usr/bin/lftp Exported Interfaces: SUNWlftpr Uncommitted Package name SUNWlftpu Uncommitted Package name /usr/bin/lftp Committed Executable location /usr/bin/lftpget Committed Executable location lftp Uncommitted Commandline syntax lftpget Uncommitted Commandline syntax Imported Interfaces: SUNWlexpt Libraries (libexpat.so.1) SUNWgnutls Libraries (libgnutls.so.13) SUNWlibgcrypt Libraries (libgcrypt.so.11) SUNWlibgpg-error Libraries (libgpg-error.so.0) SUNWlibC Libraries (libCstd.so.1, libCrun.so.1, libCstd_isa.so.1) SUNWlibms Libraries (libm.so.2) SUNWzlib Libraries (libz.so.1) SUNWperl584usr To run scripts (perl) SUNWgzip Called from scripts (gzip) SUNWbzip Called from scripts (bzip) SUNWunzip Called from scripts (unzip) SUNWrpm Called from scripts (rpm) References: [1] http://lftp.yar.ru/ Author of lftp: Alexander V. Lukyanov [2] 6676677 Integrate lftp into Solaris. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: sfw 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From gdamore@Sun.COM Fri Apr 25 09:44:43 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PGig4S029491 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PGiWWS019512 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:44:41 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00L0L3UFJM00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00BIZ3UEM4D0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PGicDI025305 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00H01351ST00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW00CZ23U4HA00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:39:32 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@Sun.COM To: Daniel Hain Cc: PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Martina.Tomisova@Sun.COM Message-id: <48120944.906@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Content-Length: 5362 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000002 Checking the lftp site, it seems that lftp is perhaps superior to ncftp in some ways. I wonder though, is it possible to write a wrapper for lftp so that it can emulate ncftp? I'm all for taking the latest improvements from the open source community, but I still think it would be "nice" to minimize the number of different implementations of what is really the same functionality that we have in Solaris. A couple more questions: 1) What is the FISH protocol? (Never heard of it.) 2) Are there any deficiencies in lftp versus ncftp that would force us to retain the ncftp to avoid feature gap? 3) Given the availability of superior tools (lftp, ncftp), does it make sense to obsolete the actual "ftp" command, possibly replacing it with a script to call lftp or ncftp? (This also begs the question about whether one or the other of lftp or ncftp are true superset of ftp. A question to which I don't know the answer as I don't really use either tool any more.) (I also realize that this is "not this case", but still would like to have the info from the project team.) 4) I guess the same question could ultimately be raised about sftp as well. Although, see question 5 below. And one "non-architectural" question (really a CTeam question), but still worth knowing the answer to: 5) Given that lftp supports SFTP, HTTPS, FTPS (all of which are "secured protocols", has anyone done any checks in the code for secure programming practices? IMO, its important to ensure this new tool can't be used as an attack vector to weaken the security protections offered by those secured protocols. And if this may be used by root users (e.g. in automated scripts), then it is also important. -- Garrett Daniel Hain wrote: > I am sponsoring this case for Martina Tomisova. Timeout is set for 5/02/2008. > Man pages and the default configuration file are in the case directory. > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.66 04/17/08 SMI > This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > Integrate lftp into Solaris > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Martina Tomisova > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 25 April, 2008 > 4. Technical Description > Proposal: > > Integrate lftp into Solaris. > > Detail: > > LFTP is sophisticated file transfer program with command line > interface. It supports FTP, HTTP, FISH, SFTP, HTTPS and FTPS > protocols. > > Every operation in lftp is reliable, that is any non-fatal error > is handled and the operation is retried automatically. > > LFTP has shell-like command syntax allowing you to launch > several commands in parallel in background (&) etc. If you exit > lftp when some jobs are not finished yet, lftp will move itself > to nohup mode in background. The same happens when you have a > real modem hangup or when you close an xterm. LFTP has builtin > mirror which can download or update a whole directory tree. > > There is command 'at' to launch a job at specified time in > current context, command 'queue' to queue commands for > sequential execution for current server, and much more. > > LFTP supports IPv6 for both FTP and HTTP protocols. LFTP > supports secure versions of the protocols FTP and HTTP: FTPS > (explicit and implicit) and HTTPS. > > The current version of lftp is 3.6.3 at the time of this case. > > Deliverables: > /etc/lftp.conf > /usr/share/man/man1/lftp.1 > /usr/share/man/man1/lftpget.1 > /usr/share/lftp/verify-file > /usr/share/lftp/import-netscape > /usr/share/lftp/import-ncftp > /usr/share/lftp/convert-netscape-cookies > /usr/bin/lftpget > /usr/bin/lftp > > Exported Interfaces: > > SUNWlftpr Uncommitted Package name > SUNWlftpu Uncommitted Package name > /usr/bin/lftp Committed Executable location > /usr/bin/lftpget Committed Executable location > lftp Uncommitted Commandline syntax > lftpget Uncommitted Commandline syntax > > > Imported Interfaces: > > SUNWlexpt Libraries (libexpat.so.1) > SUNWgnutls Libraries (libgnutls.so.13) > SUNWlibgcrypt Libraries (libgcrypt.so.11) > SUNWlibgpg-error Libraries (libgpg-error.so.0) > SUNWlibC Libraries (libCstd.so.1, libCrun.so.1, > libCstd_isa.so.1) > SUNWlibms Libraries (libm.so.2) > SUNWzlib Libraries (libz.so.1) > SUNWperl584usr To run scripts (perl) > SUNWgzip Called from scripts (gzip) > SUNWbzip Called from scripts (bzip) > SUNWunzip Called from scripts (unzip) > SUNWrpm Called from scripts (rpm) > > > References: > > [1] http://lftp.yar.ru/ > Author of lftp: Alexander V. Lukyanov > [2] 6676677 Integrate lftp into Solaris. > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > sfw > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > From gww@eng.sun.com Fri Apr 25 09:48:00 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PGlxMu029534 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PGlwqp014335 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:47:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00L073ZXOS00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00B6F3ZXM8C0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PGluUV038194; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m3PGlkFJ026536; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m3PGlkaa026535; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:47:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <200804251647.m3PGlkaa026535@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 352 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000003 > Deliverables: > /etc/lftp.conf Why is there a /etc file? What is the file used for? What is the administrative interface for this file? > /usr/share/man/man1/lftp.1 > /usr/share/man/man1/lftpget.1 It seems the materials are incomplete. These are not in the case directory. How will the documentation and source be kept in sync. Gary.. From gww@eng.sun.com Fri Apr 25 09:54:06 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PGs5W7029809 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PGs4Zx022935 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:54:04 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00L074A1XA00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00BRP49ZM2E0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PGrw2O042094; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m3PGrlSG026571; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m3PGrl46026570; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:53:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <200804251653.m3PGrl46026570@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 252 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000004 > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > sfw > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open And the Release Binding is? How about Major? Gary.. From gww@eng.sun.com Fri Apr 25 10:01:19 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PH1Isk000142 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PH15CP026122 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:01:17 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00C2X4M3A100@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW004BT4M2I070@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PH1Di6047039; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m3PH12WS026588; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m3PH12MQ026587; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:01:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <200804251701.m3PH12MQ026587@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 508 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000005 Sorry for the number of these comments. I should have done them all at once ;-) > Deliverables: What about the tutorial? http://tutorials.papamike.ca/pub/lftp.html It seem like it would be useful to ship. I presume Martina will be joining the lftp community and maintaining this contribution for the future. Are there any Solaris specific things that would make lftp operate better on Solaris? If so, will they be fed upstream? Martina are you already a member of the lftp community? Gary.. From John.Plocher@sun.com Fri Apr 25 10:03:52 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PH3pt2000174 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PH3jj4027119 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:03:50 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00C2X4QCEF00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW004Y14QAHU60@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:03:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PH3kiA028291 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW002013ZOSE00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW00BX84PZY6D0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:03:34 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <48120944.906@sun.com> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Daniel Hain , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <48120EE6.1040306@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <48120944.906@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) Content-Length: 1466 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000006 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Checking the lftp site, it seems that lftp is perhaps superior to ncftp > in some ways. > > I wonder though, is it possible to write a wrapper for lftp so that it > can emulate ncftp? I'm all for taking the latest improvements from the > open source community, but I still think it would be "nice" to minimize > the number of different implementations of what is really the same Why? Or more precisely, what do you mean by "minimize the number of different implementations"? We can't go off and disband a bunch of FOSS projects that we don't like, and we can't stop people from getting/compiling/using them... All we can do is to make it harder for users to actually get binaries that run on OpenSolaris for these things. And every time we do /that/, we make it harder for users to take OpenSolaris seriously because it does not meet *their* needs. In my mind, EVERY SINGLE FOSS project out there[1] should be available in a repository, in ready-to-run binary form, waiting for someone who needs it to download on their OpenSolaris system. Now, if you were saying "only *some of them* should be considered candidates to become a core part of the OS, we might have a different conversation, but even then, if we had a full mondo-repository, why would it matter? -John ____ [1] that makes sense for Solaris - there are obviously quite a few that don't, such as MS-Windows editors, linux-kernel specific admin tools... :-) From John.Plocher@sun.com Fri Apr 25 10:11:56 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PHBuI9000317 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PHBpC3003128 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00A0H53L8R00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW0033953KJR90@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PHBiod029498 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00D014WTC800@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW00BGE53EY6I0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:11:38 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <200804251653.m3PGrl46026570@marduk.eng.sun.com> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: Gary Winiger Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <481210CA.8050005@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251653.m3PGrl46026570@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) Content-Length: 597 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000007 Gary Winiger wrote: > And the Release Binding is? How about Major? In this case, why would Major be a requirement? (he asks naively, trying to inject architectural clarity into this type of conversation...) Personally, I see nothing in this case that would require a major release. It makes no incompatible changes to existing interfaces, so, by the rules in the interface/release taxonomies, it should qualify for patch binding. It may not follow all the best practices and policies, but I'm not sure how that compliance maps to the release taxonomy.... Am I missing something? -John From gdamore@sun.com Fri Apr 25 10:22:14 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PHLxRG000411 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PHLmRW004966 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00M0X5KBZT00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00MBI5K7CO30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PHLh0P001072 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00L0155MUL00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW00BSJ5JZY6N0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:16:39 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <48120EE6.1040306@Sun.Com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: John Plocher Cc: Daniel Hain , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <481211F7.1080005@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <48120944.906@sun.com> <48120EE6.1040306@Sun.Com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Content-Length: 3116 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000008 John Plocher wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Checking the lftp site, it seems that lftp is perhaps superior to >> ncftp in some ways. >> I wonder though, is it possible to write a wrapper for lftp so that >> it can emulate ncftp? I'm all for taking the latest improvements >> from the open source community, but I still think it would be "nice" >> to minimize the number of different implementations of what is really >> the same > > > Why? Or more precisely, what do you mean by "minimize the number of > different implementations"? I meant "that are integrated into Solaris". And the rationale is quite simple -- more code in Solaris == more effort to sustain, support, larger install image, bigger download, generally more "bloat". If having multiple different implementations has some core value (e.g. OpenSSL and PKCS#11 both have many feature overlaps, but we really do need both to support the different kinds of applications) that's fine. But if users or developers don't gain a noticeable benefit by having multiple implementations, then we (Sun/Solaris/OpenSolaris) gain a benefit by having fewer. > > We can't go off and disband a bunch of FOSS projects that we don't like, > and we can't stop people from getting/compiling/using them... Again, I'm just talking about what we deliver. Sorry if that wasn't clear. > > All we can do is to make it harder for users to actually get binaries > that run on OpenSolaris for these things. And every time we do /that/, > we make it harder for users to take OpenSolaris seriously because it > does not meet *their* needs. I'm asking if we can meet the needs of these users with a single implementation. Not trying to prevent anyone from using their favorite tool or syntax. In other words, this is more like having kmdb emulate older mdb... if lftp (or ncftp) can serve as a stand-in for one or more other file transfer implementations, then I'm all for reducing the total number of implementations we ship. But they can't fully or at least adequately stand in (via emulation, shell wrapper, or somesuch), then I withdraw this point altogether. > > In my mind, EVERY SINGLE FOSS project out there[1] should be available > in a repository, in ready-to-run binary form, waiting for someone who > needs it to download on their OpenSolaris system. The Repo argument is fine. But that's not what this case is about. Its about what is *integrated* into Solaris. > > Now, if you were saying "only *some of them* should be considered > candidates to become a core part of the OS, we might have a different > conversation, but even then, if we had a full mondo-repository, why > would it matter? If we had a full mondo repo, then no, I don't care either. At that point, more is probably better just for sake of variety. (Assuming that we don't have to fully and equally support everything in the repository. Support isn't free.) -- Garrett > > -John > > ____ > [1] that makes sense for Solaris - there are obviously quite a > few that don't, such as MS-Windows editors, linux-kernel specific > admin tools... :-) From gdamore@sun.com Fri Apr 25 10:24:17 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PHOHw2000455 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PHOGK0054707 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:24:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00D0R5OFJK00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:24:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW004E05OAHT90@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PHOAhR001409 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00H015CGIJ00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW00GW05NY2230@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:19:03 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <481210CA.8050005@Sun.Com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: John Plocher Cc: Gary Winiger , PSARC-ext@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <48121287.7010606@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251653.m3PGrl46026570@marduk.eng.sun.com> <481210CA.8050005@Sun.Com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Content-Length: 1077 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000009 I don't think Gary said that the binding had to be major, only that in the absence of a release binding specified by the project, what can we assume? Major is the only "safe" assumption because it has no compatibility requirements. If the project team doesn't like a Major binding (and I agree with you that they shouldn't!), then they should explicitly indicate the binding in their case materials. - Garrett John Plocher wrote: > Gary Winiger wrote: >> And the Release Binding is? How about Major? > > In this case, why would Major be a requirement? > > (he asks naively, trying to inject architectural clarity into this > type of conversation...) > > Personally, I see nothing in this case that would require a major > release. > It makes no incompatible changes to existing interfaces, so, by the rules > in the interface/release taxonomies, it should qualify for patch binding. > > It may not follow all the best practices and policies, but I'm not sure > how that compliance maps to the release taxonomy.... > > Am I missing something? > > -John > > From jek3@sun.com Fri Apr 25 10:34:50 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PHYnuB000744 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PHYiM4000769; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:34:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00E2165W5800@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW004U565UHT90@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m3PHYbpv186074; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:35:26 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <481211F7.1080005@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: John Plocher , Daniel Hain , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <4812165E.4040105@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <48120944.906@sun.com> <48120EE6.1040306@Sun.Com> <481211F7.1080005@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Content-Length: 732 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000010 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > And the rationale is quite simple -- more code in Solaris == more > effort to sustain, support, larger install image, bigger download, > generally more "bloat". I disagree. I strongly *suspect* it is less effort to "sustain, support" the plethora of FOSS ftp versions by minimizing the changes to that version, including a proposed "wrapper" implementation. I agree with John here. Let's not make this into a big, thread. There is clearly nothing wrong about having the multiple implementations. Support is an issue, and we have some input, but ultimately. this isn't architecture. (Yea, "size" does matter (image size, download size), but IMHO its in the noise.) - jek3 From Daniel.Hain@sun.com Fri Apr 25 10:51:13 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PHpCcp001087 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PHp93S007398 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:51:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00E196XAE300@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW003X96XAJOB0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PHpAW2022707 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00D016P4DW00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Daniel.Hain@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Macintosh-2.local ([72.197.213.236]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW00GN46X322G0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:51:00 -0700 From: Dan Hain Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <200804251647.m3PGlkaa026535@marduk.eng.sun.com> Sender: Daniel.Hain@sun.com To: Gary Winiger Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48121A04.5090404@sun.com> Organization: Solaris Revenue Product Engineering MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251647.m3PGlkaa026535@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) Content-Length: 692 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000011 Gary Winiger wrote: Release bind is Micro. >> Deliverables: >> /etc/lftp.conf >> > > Why is there a /etc file? What is the file used for? > What is the administrative interface for this file? > This provides default configuration options for lftp. It requires root access to modify. Users can do additional customizations in ~/.lftprc, which is run after /etc/lftp.conf. The lftp.conf file is full of examples. > >> /usr/share/man/man1/lftp.1 >> /usr/share/man/man1/lftpget.1 >> > > It seems the materials are incomplete. These are not in the > case directory. How will the documentation and source be kept > in sync. > Materials are there now. Dan From gww@eng.sun.com Fri Apr 25 11:25:49 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PIPnmF002721 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PIPkpJ027046; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00H0V8J02P00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:25:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW004638IWHTE0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (marduk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.108.224]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PIPhDo035542; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marduk.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m3PIPWV6026807; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gww@localhost) by marduk.eng.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id m3PIPWR0026806; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:25:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Winiger Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] To: gdamore@sun.com, jek3@sun.com Cc: John.Plocher@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 1204 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000012 > Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > And the rationale is quite simple -- more code in Solaris == more > > effort to sustain, support, larger install image, bigger download, > > generally more "bloat". > I disagree. > > I strongly *suspect* it is less effort to "sustain, support" the > plethora of FOSS ftp versions by minimizing the changes to that version, > including a proposed "wrapper" implementation. > > I agree with John here. > > Let's not make this into a big, thread. There is > clearly nothing wrong about having the multiple implementations. > Support is an issue, and we have some input, but ultimately. this isn't > architecture. > > (Yea, "size" does matter (image size, download size), but IMHO its in > the noise.) Almost agree. My architectural points from the initial submission of the case were the incomplete specification. And from an ARC pointing to the business teams perspective, is the project team engaged with the community and will they remain engaged. I don't know what's come of the earlier business edict that all Solaris projects (whatever that means in an OpenSolaris world) will deliver tests into the test organization. Gary.. From gdamore@sun.com Fri Apr 25 11:46:52 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PIkpfP003241 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PIkfqs006428 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 02:46:51 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00K039I0E900@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00HY39I00K40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PIkmUA013337 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00L0195AJM00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW003RW9HPDS90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:41:41 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Gary Winiger Cc: jek3@sun.com, John.Plocher@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Content-Length: 1624 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000013 Gary Winiger wrote: >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> >>> And the rationale is quite simple -- more code in Solaris == more >>> effort to sustain, support, larger install image, bigger download, >>> generally more "bloat". >>> >> I disagree. >> >> I strongly *suspect* it is less effort to "sustain, support" the >> plethora of FOSS ftp versions by minimizing the changes to that version, >> including a proposed "wrapper" implementation. >> Clarification: I was asking if it *already* could do this (or some trivial wrapper -- e.g. a shell script to convert flag operands, or just a hard link if the newer commands are a precise superset- or close enough to one that it doesn't matter). I wasn't asking anyone to change the sources received from upstream. -- Garrett PS: As far as any one "size does matter but its in the noise" -- the problem is we are dying from a thousand cuts, IMO. If nobody cares about an additional 1MB (or even 100K) of bloat introduced by their project, then ultimately Solaris turns into a lumbering pig instead of the sleek peregrine that I think many of us would rather it be. (I am one of those developers -- and I think I'm in the minority here -- that actually cares about bloat, and believes that systems should get faster, not slower, as time goes on. In other words I believe that the fight against the tendency of system software to consume all available system resources (memory, cpu, disk, bandwidth) is worth fighting. If I believed differently, maybe I'd be happier working on other operating systems -- such as one produced in Redmond.) From bart.smaalders@sun.com Fri Apr 25 12:02:39 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PJ2dMo003670 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PJ211b011711; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:02:33 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW0040XA851000@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW001XFA85T620@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.228.109]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m3PJ2Spd200520; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:02:28 -0700 From: Bart Smaalders Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Gary Winiger , jek3@sun.com, John.Plocher@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <48122AC4.3030306@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080201) Content-Length: 1061 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000014 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > (I am one of those developers -- and I think I'm in the minority here -- > that actually cares about bloat, and believes that systems should get > faster, not slower, as time goes on. In other words I believe that the > fight against the tendency of system software to consume all available > system resources (memory, cpu, disk, bandwidth) is worth fighting. If I > believed differently, maybe I'd be happier working on other operating > systems -- such as one produced in Redmond.) > Please stop. What part of software repository do you not understand? If you don't want this on your system, don't install it. Do we have to have this conversation about every FOSS case you personally wouldn't install on your machine? And enough w/ the histrionics, please. Reducing the number of available software packages will not make Solaris run faster. - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts "You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird." From jek3@sun.com Fri Apr 25 12:24:21 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PJOLrj003802 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PJOJ7o010474; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW0010JB8JDD00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00HQ3B8I0OA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.13.200] (vpn-129-150-13-200.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.150.13.200]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m3PJOH32203628; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:25:06 -1000 From: Joseph Kowalski Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <48122AC4.3030306@Sun.COM> To: Bart Smaalders Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Gary Winiger , John.Plocher@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <48123012.4020200@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> <48122AC4.3030306@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080225) Content-Length: 237 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000015 Bart Smaalders wrote: > Please stop. What part of software repository do you not understand? The part about it not being part of Solaris 10 or Nevada perhaps? :-) Talk about "histrionics",... There is no case log for Indiana. - jek3 From jyri@buye.red.iplanet.com Fri Apr 25 13:01:02 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PK12uL004459 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PK0vKd031458; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW0060FCXLRH00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com ([192.18.65.224]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW001TJCXLTC30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buye.red.iplanet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m3PK0vFB022973; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jyri@localhost) by buye.red.iplanet.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m3PK0vN3022972; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:00:57 -0700 From: Jyri Virkki Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Reply-to: Jyri.Virkki@sun.com Message-id: <20080425200057.GD20827@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Content-Length: 964 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000016 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > As far as any one "size does matter but its in the noise" -- the problem > is we are dying from a thousand cuts, IMO. If nobody cares about an > additional 1MB (or even 100K) of bloat introduced by their project, then > ultimately Solaris turns into a lumbering pig instead of the sleek > peregrine that I think many of us would rather it be. Size matters... Nevada b87 install image: ~4Gb Indiana rc2 install image: 686MB So things are moving in the right direction. You're not expected to install every available package. That'd be crazy. On my debian server I have installed 8.3% of the available packages. And I'm probably not a typical user as I install a lot of stuff. I expect similar percentages on my Solaris installs once we have enough apps available. Reply-To set to myself as this thread has nothing to do with the case, once again. But it's Friday. -- Jyri J. Virkki - jyri.virkki@sun.com - Sun Microsystems From gdamore@sun.com Fri Apr 25 13:10:57 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PKAuDj005106 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PKAuvG033735; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:10:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00609DE7Y000@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW006M2DE7NQ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PKAtX0009007; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00J01DAZ5P00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW008RLDE0W4D0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:05:52 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <48122AC4.3030306@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Bart Smaalders Cc: Gary Winiger , jek3@sun.com, John.Plocher@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <481239A0.4030001@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> <48122AC4.3030306@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Content-Length: 1122 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000017 Bart Smaalders wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> >> (I am one of those developers -- and I think I'm in the minority here >> -- that actually cares about bloat, and believes that systems should >> get faster, not slower, as time goes on. In other words I believe >> that the fight against the tendency of system software to consume all >> available system resources (memory, cpu, disk, bandwidth) is worth >> fighting. If I believed differently, maybe I'd be happier working on >> other operating systems -- such as one produced in Redmond.) >> > > Please stop. What part of software repository do you not understand? > If you don't want this on your system, don't install it. Do we have to > have this conversation about every FOSS case you personally wouldn't > install on your machine? > > And enough w/ the histrionics, please. Reducing the number of available > software packages will not make Solaris run faster. THIS CASE IS NOT ABOUT A REPOSITORY. It is about what is *integrated* into Solaris. Please stop bringing up repositories. When we have one, then we can talk about it. -- Garrett From John.Plocher@sun.com Fri Apr 25 15:26:30 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PMQTp9008524 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PMQRHc018484 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:26:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00M03JO3D500@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00BKFJO3GDC0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PMQRUp023301 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00L01JH92R00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from John.Plocher@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp668.local ([208.74.177.212]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW0051DJNKUB70@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:26:08 -0700 From: John Plocher Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> Sender: John.Plocher@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Gary Winiger , jek3@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <48125A80.4070706@Sun.Com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) Content-Length: 928 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000018 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > bloat Think of the compiler world, where there are the concepts of "part of the compiler", "part of the hosting OS", "add-on features and libraries" and "customer provided stuff". In the OS world, this concept might result in the following classifications: A) "part of the core OS", B) "part of the WOS that collects around that core", C) "add-on features and libraries" and D) "customer provided stuff". If I hear you correctly, Garrett, you are saying Don't simply dump more and more stuff into the "A" bucket, as it is already too full of bloat. and, more importantly, you are NOT saying Can't be part of "C" or "D". I don't think anyone will argue with this - the undefined and tricky one is "what should be in "B"? I don't know *how* to produce "C" things, and I'll bet nobody else does either, which may explain why things are being dumped into "B". -John From gdamore@sun.com Fri Apr 25 15:45:45 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m3PMjiiO009301 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m3PMjh0E004606 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:45:43 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0JZW00107KK6HH00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JZW00BOWKK6GDE0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m3PMjg4X010546 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0JZW00I01KFDXL00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.106] ([76.174.83.55]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0JZW005F4KJYUBE0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:40:38 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <48125A80.4070706@Sun.Com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: John Plocher Cc: Gary Winiger , jek3@sun.com, dhain@sac.sfbay.sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <48125DE6.7070901@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251825.m3PIPWR0026806@marduk.eng.sun.com> <481225E5.4040501@sun.com> <48125A80.4070706@Sun.Com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071023) Content-Length: 1333 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000019 John Plocher wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> bloat > > Think of the compiler world, where there are the concepts of > "part of the compiler", "part of the hosting OS", "add-on > features and libraries" and "customer provided stuff". > > In the OS world, this concept might result in the following > classifications: > A) "part of the core OS", > B) "part of the WOS that collects around that core", > C) "add-on features and libraries" and > D) "customer provided stuff". > > If I hear you correctly, Garrett, you are saying > > Don't simply dump more and more stuff into the "A" > bucket, as it is already too full of bloat. > > and, more importantly, you are NOT saying > > Can't be part of "C" or "D". > > I don't think anyone will argue with this - the undefined and > tricky one is "what should be in "B"? > > I don't know *how* to produce "C" things, and I'll bet nobody > else does either, which may explain why things are being dumped > into "B". Exactly. The cost of putting stuff into "B", however, is probably considerably higher than the cost of putting them into "C" would be, if we had a way to do it. I think it is time for someone to step up and figure this problem out post-haste. Continuing to put everything in "B" doesn't seem like a good solution. -- Garrett > > -John > From Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Fri May 2 09:59:00 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m42Gx0ie023816 for ; Fri, 2 May 2008 09:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m42Gwxhn059079 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 2 May 2008 10:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K090041X36B8T00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 02 May 2008 10:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K0900EDU365E1F0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 02 May 2008 10:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.12]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m42Gwr8r007943 for ; Fri, 02 May 2008 16:58:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K0900J012ZKG500@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Martina.Tomisova@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Fri, 02 May 2008 17:58:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.157.16.195] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K09004ZZ361LQ50@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Fri, 02 May 2008 17:58:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 18:58:46 +0200 From: martina tomisova - Sun Microsystems - Prague Czech Republic Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <48120944.906@sun.com> Sender: Martina.Tomisova@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Daniel Hain , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <481B4846.2030209@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <48120944.906@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070802) Content-Length: 695 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000020 Hi, > 1) What is the FISH protocol? (Never heard of it.) Citation from wikipedia: FIles transferred over SHell protocol is a protocol to use SSH or RSH to transfer files between computers and manage remote files. The advantage of FISH is that all it requires on the server-side is an SSH or RSH implementation, Unix shell and a set of standard Unix utilities like ls, cat or dd. > Are there any Solaris specific > things that would make lftp operate better on Solaris? If so, will > they be fed upstream? No. > Martina are you already a member of the lftp community? Not yet, however I'm in touch with the author through emails in these days. Have a nice weekend, Martina From Daniel.Hain@sun.com Wed May 7 14:31:40 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m47LVd4v018808 for ; Wed, 7 May 2008 14:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m47LVZ8K017759 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 8 May 2008 05:31:39 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K0I00D01P4OC100@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 07 May 2008 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K0I00329P4O8KE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 07 May 2008 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m47LVaPB002072 for ; Wed, 07 May 2008 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K0I00401OXSDF00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from Daniel.Hain@Sun.COM) for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 07 May 2008 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-usan09-88-152.West.Sun.COM ([129.153.88.152]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K0I0060RP4NV590@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 07 May 2008 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 14:31:34 -0700 From: Dan Hain Subject: Re: Integrate lftp into Solaris [PSARC/2008/276 FastTrack timeout 05/02/2008] In-reply-to: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Daniel.Hain@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Martina.Tomisova@sun.com Message-id: <48221FB6.6040203@sun.com> Organization: Solaris Revenue Product Engineering MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200804251619.m3PGJ483029303@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) Content-Length: 4279 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000021 Since no one objected and the timer ran out, I marked this case as 'closed approved' in the IAM file. Dan Daniel Hain wrote: > I am sponsoring this case for Martina Tomisova. Timeout is set for 5/02/2008. > Man pages and the default configuration file are in the case directory. > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.66 04/17/08 SMI > This information is Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > Integrate lftp into Solaris > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Martina Tomisova > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 25 April, 2008 > 4. Technical Description > Proposal: > > Integrate lftp into Solaris. > > Detail: > > LFTP is sophisticated file transfer program with command line > interface. It supports FTP, HTTP, FISH, SFTP, HTTPS and FTPS > protocols. > > Every operation in lftp is reliable, that is any non-fatal error > is handled and the operation is retried automatically. > > LFTP has shell-like command syntax allowing you to launch > several commands in parallel in background (&) etc. If you exit > lftp when some jobs are not finished yet, lftp will move itself > to nohup mode in background. The same happens when you have a > real modem hangup or when you close an xterm. LFTP has builtin > mirror which can download or update a whole directory tree. > > There is command 'at' to launch a job at specified time in > current context, command 'queue' to queue commands for > sequential execution for current server, and much more. > > LFTP supports IPv6 for both FTP and HTTP protocols. LFTP > supports secure versions of the protocols FTP and HTTP: FTPS > (explicit and implicit) and HTTPS. > > The current version of lftp is 3.6.3 at the time of this case. > > Deliverables: > /etc/lftp.conf > /usr/share/man/man1/lftp.1 > /usr/share/man/man1/lftpget.1 > /usr/share/lftp/verify-file > /usr/share/lftp/import-netscape > /usr/share/lftp/import-ncftp > /usr/share/lftp/convert-netscape-cookies > /usr/bin/lftpget > /usr/bin/lftp > > Exported Interfaces: > > SUNWlftpr Uncommitted Package name > SUNWlftpu Uncommitted Package name > /usr/bin/lftp Committed Executable location > /usr/bin/lftpget Committed Executable location > lftp Uncommitted Commandline syntax > lftpget Uncommitted Commandline syntax > > > Imported Interfaces: > > SUNWlexpt Libraries (libexpat.so.1) > SUNWgnutls Libraries (libgnutls.so.13) > SUNWlibgcrypt Libraries (libgcrypt.so.11) > SUNWlibgpg-error Libraries (libgpg-error.so.0) > SUNWlibC Libraries (libCstd.so.1, libCrun.so.1, > libCstd_isa.so.1) > SUNWlibms Libraries (libm.so.2) > SUNWzlib Libraries (libz.so.1) > SUNWperl584usr To run scripts (perl) > SUNWgzip Called from scripts (gzip) > SUNWbzip Called from scripts (bzip) > SUNWunzip Called from scripts (unzip) > SUNWrpm Called from scripts (rpm) > > > References: > > [1] http://lftp.yar.ru/ > Author of lftp: Alexander V. Lukyanov > [2] 6676677 Integrate lftp into Solaris. > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > sfw > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > -- Dan Hain Solaris Revenue Product Engineering (RPE)