From Mon Aug 25 10:06:56 2008 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:06:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Postmaster Subject: Message from mail server Content-Length: 94 Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO X-IMAP: 1219684016 24 Delete. This is a system message. --END+PSEUDO-- From don.cragun@sun.com Tue Aug 19 14:40:06 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7JLe6dK029255 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JLe2qw013957 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5V0070BAUTPQ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5V00JTOAUTBJE0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JLe5Tn057665; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan (spartan [129.146.226.64]) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with SMTP id m7JLWZUu007583; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:32:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Reply-to: Don Cragun Message-id: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.6.2 SunOS 5.10 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-MD5: sMEIpcoOqbs0JSAbv9RX5g== X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 3067 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000001 I'm sponsoring this case for Craig Mohrman. The project team is requesting a minor release binding. The timer expires Tuesday, August 26, 2008. Cheers, Don Template Version: @(#)onepager.txt 1.35 07/11/07 SMI Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Craig Mohrman 1.3. Date of This Document: 19 August 2008 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: PSARC 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: tim.cramer@sun.com 1.5. Email Aliases: 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: tim.sparlin@sun.com 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: craig.mohrman@sun.com 2. Project Summary 2.1. Project Description: Create a utility called top which is actually an enhanced version of the utility prstat. 3. Business Summary 3.1. Problem Area: A familiar command for users unfamiliar with OpenSolaris to gain an understanding of what is going on with processes inside their machine. 3.5. Opportunity Window/Exposure: Time to market is critical for this project. We are targetting the next release of OpenSolaris, 2008.11. Therefore this project is being kept small and doable in the time given. 4. Technical Description: 4.1. Details: The top utility available on Linux systems is not provided on Solaris systems. Since top is the Linux utility most requested by users running OpenSolaris systems, we need to provide a top utility in OpenSolaris 2008.11. In many cases, output from top is very similar to output produced by the Solaris prstat utility. We will not be able to provide all of the features of the various Linux top utilities (features and options vary between Linux systems) in time for 2008.11, so we plan to provide top in two phases. This case describes phase 1. A later case will provide phase 2. Phase 1 will make top be a link to prstat. It will simply invoke prstat as is. An accompanying man page for top will indicate what we have done and note that we are working on a "top like" implementation. (See top.1m in the materials directory.) The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and behave similar to the top that comes from: http://www.unixtop.org/ 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): TBD... 4.5. Interfaces: A link from /usr/bin/top to /usr/bin/prstat. 4.6. Doc Impact: Create the man page top.1. prstat.1 will have a SEE ALSO note. 5. Reference Documents: materials/top.1: Phase 1 top(1) man page PSARC 2000/488: Solaris/Linux Commands Compatibility PSARC 2005/185: Enabling Serendipitous Discovery 6. Resources and Schedule: 6.4. Product Approval Committee requested information: 6.4.1. Consolidation or Component Name: ON 6.4.7. Target RTI Date/Release: onnv_98 or onnv_99 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Tue Aug 19 14:50:48 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7JLolVZ029911 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JLoer6016735; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:50:45 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5V00K0FBCK9200@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5V00J9UBCKO450@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.226.160] (shortty.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.160]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7JLoidt021868; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:50:42 -0700 From: Craig Mohrman Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48AB4032.4050601@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080325) Content-Length: 3336 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000002 The top.1 man page should be a .1M page to match prstat.1M. craig Don Cragun wrote: > I'm sponsoring this case for Craig Mohrman. > The project team is requesting a minor release binding. > The timer expires Tuesday, August 26, 2008. > > Cheers, > Don > > Template Version: @(#)onepager.txt 1.35 07/11/07 SMI > Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems > > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Craig Mohrman > > 1.3. Date of This Document: > 19 August 2008 > > 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): > 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: > PSARC > 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: > tim.cramer@sun.com > > 1.5. Email Aliases: > 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: tim.sparlin@sun.com > 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: craig.mohrman@sun.com > > > 2. Project Summary > 2.1. Project Description: > Create a utility called top which is actually an enhanced > version of the utility prstat. > > > 3. Business Summary > 3.1. Problem Area: > A familiar command for users unfamiliar with OpenSolaris to > gain an understanding of what is going on with processes inside > their machine. > > 3.5. Opportunity Window/Exposure: > Time to market is critical for this project. We are targetting > the next release of OpenSolaris, 2008.11. Therefore this > project is being kept small and doable in the time given. > > > 4. Technical Description: > 4.1. Details: > The top utility available on Linux systems is not provided on > Solaris systems. Since top is the Linux utility most requested > by users running OpenSolaris systems, we need to provide a top > utility in OpenSolaris 2008.11. In many cases, output from top > is very similar to output produced by the Solaris prstat > utility. We will not be able to provide all of the features of > the various Linux top utilities (features and options vary > between Linux systems) in time for 2008.11, so we plan to > provide top in two phases. This case describes phase 1. A > later case will provide phase 2. > > Phase 1 will make top be a link to prstat. It will simply > invoke prstat as is. An accompanying man page for top will > indicate what we have done and note that we are working on a > "top like" implementation. (See top.1m in the materials > directory.) > > The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so > that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and > behave similar to the top that comes from: > http://www.unixtop.org/ > > 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): > TBD... > > 4.5. Interfaces: > A link from /usr/bin/top to /usr/bin/prstat. > > 4.6. Doc Impact: > Create the man page top.1. > prstat.1 will have a SEE ALSO note. > > 5. Reference Documents: > materials/top.1: Phase 1 top(1) man page > PSARC 2000/488: Solaris/Linux Commands Compatibility > PSARC 2005/185: Enabling Serendipitous Discovery > > 6. Resources and Schedule: > 6.4. Product Approval Committee requested information: > 6.4.1. Consolidation or Component Name: > ON > 6.4.7. Target RTI Date/Release: > onnv_98 or onnv_99 > > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > From peter.tribble@gmail.com Tue Aug 19 15:03:47 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7JM3lTj000441 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JM3knF025525 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5V00K05BYBSS00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5V00JEXBYAO4B0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7JM3kHP018479 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:03:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6129 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:03:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (relay14i.sun.com [129.179.4.124]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-70357 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:03:44 +0000 (Z) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.159] [72.14.220.159]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-112617 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:03:44 +0000 (Z) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e21so114473fga.6 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.68.2 with SMTP id q2mr4571712fga.43.1219183423139; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.97.8 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:03:43 +0100 From: Peter Tribble Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=bcJOHSDGkH729ESMeEO9V6AKN93VKgH2+hrJbww0Bug=; b=NfARWXegJJRJ+qEyUFis/GsnbKa1Sb6PGfZzbq/bved61e0WVipBzg2VYI6xPv4l0t ptuYtPDxwK+OojD9hc93qdEDD+R4YSsoCziD/VlzrTL55ZI/TGavGUZ3BcJ+btjynOZT GWyUktW2m2WTpnG3qTmFYQJrh38Vmx2Asm6sk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=cPjK2dMT+/YTAPUy9WLa7d59e0D3MGzc6r5tAK9KaRm2nfUgsgxSWeRXlX+RfTcBu3 0swjiftxRXjkL3dPIFYe4zX5ZmJlVW3UtxIRTuaq1VIARBtzr4RJZ5m44dR5h0+w3BlR WkxOS015O4EGLK4kueiOnpXpl9CLmu+hNR5Jw= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 1.084sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-Length: 1668 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000003 On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Don Cragun wrote: > 4. Technical Description: > 4.1. Details: > The top utility available on Linux systems is not provided on > Solaris systems. Since top is the Linux utility most requested > by users running OpenSolaris systems, we need to provide a top > utility in OpenSolaris 2008.11. In many cases, output from top > is very similar to output produced by the Solaris prstat > utility. We will not be able to provide all of the features of > the various Linux top utilities (features and options vary > between Linux systems) in time for 2008.11, so we plan to > provide top in two phases. This case describes phase 1. A > later case will provide phase 2. > > Phase 1 will make top be a link to prstat. It will simply > invoke prstat as is. An accompanying man page for top will > indicate what we have done and note that we are working on a > "top like" implementation. (See top.1m in the materials > directory.) > > The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so > that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and > behave similar to the top that comes from: > http://www.unixtop.org/ No. What customers want, need, and expect, is top. The real thing. Please scrap this idea and just ship top. Not only will it actually meet customers needs but it is substantially less effort. The only acceptable "top-like" implementation is top itself. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From gdamore@sun.com Tue Aug 19 15:07:25 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7JM7PEx000469 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JM7Gjl026593; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5V00I0LC4CQU00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:07:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5V00AL6C4BHZD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7JM7Nd4017588; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5V00501C0C5J00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.172] by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5V002WTC4A2N10@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:01:10 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <48AB42A6.7050809@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) Content-Length: 4235 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000004 It might be informative to know where the features that prstat offers will vary from those offered by the FOSS top. (I'm more concerned about top compiled on Solaris, not running on some other platform.) If the discrepancies are large (I don't think they are, but I haven't surveyed them), then it might be more problematic to ship the symbolic link. (One of the features I have sometimes used -- not recently -- is top's ability to kill a process (press "k"). This used with an "exec" has let me occasionally recover from an otherwise horked system (due to some other run away process.) I can't do that with prstat, so I wonder if the "surprise" here might be detrimental (I'd have exec'ed away what might have been my only useful shell into a tool that won't let me do anything except *look*.) Granted, I expect such usage is rather atypical. In any case, a comparison would be good information to have in the top.1m manual page. -- Garrett Don Cragun wrote: > I'm sponsoring this case for Craig Mohrman. > The project team is requesting a minor release binding. > The timer expires Tuesday, August 26, 2008. > > Cheers, > Don > > Template Version: @(#)onepager.txt 1.35 07/11/07 SMI > Copyright 2008 Sun Microsystems > > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Craig Mohrman > > 1.3. Date of This Document: > 19 August 2008 > > 1.4. Name of Major Document Customer(s)/Consumer(s): > 1.4.2. The ARC(s) you expect to review your project: > PSARC > 1.4.3. The Director/VP who is "Sponsoring" this project: > tim.cramer@sun.com > > 1.5. Email Aliases: > 1.5.1. Responsible Manager: tim.sparlin@sun.com > 1.5.2. Responsible Engineer: craig.mohrman@sun.com > > > 2. Project Summary > 2.1. Project Description: > Create a utility called top which is actually an enhanced > version of the utility prstat. > > > 3. Business Summary > 3.1. Problem Area: > A familiar command for users unfamiliar with OpenSolaris to > gain an understanding of what is going on with processes inside > their machine. > > 3.5. Opportunity Window/Exposure: > Time to market is critical for this project. We are targetting > the next release of OpenSolaris, 2008.11. Therefore this > project is being kept small and doable in the time given. > > > 4. Technical Description: > 4.1. Details: > The top utility available on Linux systems is not provided on > Solaris systems. Since top is the Linux utility most requested > by users running OpenSolaris systems, we need to provide a top > utility in OpenSolaris 2008.11. In many cases, output from top > is very similar to output produced by the Solaris prstat > utility. We will not be able to provide all of the features of > the various Linux top utilities (features and options vary > between Linux systems) in time for 2008.11, so we plan to > provide top in two phases. This case describes phase 1. A > later case will provide phase 2. > > Phase 1 will make top be a link to prstat. It will simply > invoke prstat as is. An accompanying man page for top will > indicate what we have done and note that we are working on a > "top like" implementation. (See top.1m in the materials > directory.) > > The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so > that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and > behave similar to the top that comes from: > http://www.unixtop.org/ > > 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): > TBD... > > 4.5. Interfaces: > A link from /usr/bin/top to /usr/bin/prstat. > > 4.6. Doc Impact: > Create the man page top.1. > prstat.1 will have a SEE ALSO note. > > 5. Reference Documents: > materials/top.1: Phase 1 top(1) man page > PSARC 2000/488: Solaris/Linux Commands Compatibility > PSARC 2005/185: Enabling Serendipitous Discovery > > 6. Resources and Schedule: > 6.4. Product Approval Committee requested information: > 6.4.1. Consolidation or Component Name: > ON > 6.4.7. Target RTI Date/Release: > onnv_98 or onnv_99 > > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > From gdamore@Sun.COM Tue Aug 19 15:09:09 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7JM99LQ000508 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JM95qR006025; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5V00L01C6X1Y00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5V00JUVC6TO4D0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7JM8qp6021130; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5V00501C0C5J00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.172] by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5V002IDC6S2N20@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:02:40 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: Sender: Garrett.Damore@Sun.COM To: Peter Tribble Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Craig.Mohrman@Sun.COM Message-id: <48AB4300.4070401@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) Content-Length: 1763 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000005 Peter Tribble wrote: > On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Don Cragun wrote: > > >> 4. Technical Description: >> 4.1. Details: >> The top utility available on Linux systems is not provided on >> Solaris systems. Since top is the Linux utility most requested >> by users running OpenSolaris systems, we need to provide a top >> utility in OpenSolaris 2008.11. In many cases, output from top >> is very similar to output produced by the Solaris prstat >> utility. We will not be able to provide all of the features of >> the various Linux top utilities (features and options vary >> between Linux systems) in time for 2008.11, so we plan to >> provide top in two phases. This case describes phase 1. A >> later case will provide phase 2. >> >> Phase 1 will make top be a link to prstat. It will simply >> invoke prstat as is. An accompanying man page for top will >> indicate what we have done and note that we are working on a >> "top like" implementation. (See top.1m in the materials >> directory.) >> >> The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so >> that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and >> behave similar to the top that comes from: >> http://www.unixtop.org/ >> > > No. > > What customers want, need, and expect, is top. The real thing. > > Please scrap this idea and just ship top. Not only will it actually > meet customers > needs but it is substantially less effort. > > The only acceptable "top-like" implementation is top itself. > Why? What features do customers expect from top that prstat doesn't supply? -- Garrett From peter.tribble@gmail.com Tue Aug 19 15:27:59 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7JMRweX001136 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JMRves012230 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5V00K0BD2L7S00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5V00JBCD2KSY00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7JMQKB4024840 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:27:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.232] [160.41.221.232]) by relay44i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3955 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:27:56 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay42i.sun.com (relay42i.sun.com [192.5.209.72]) by mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-241892 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:27:53 +0000 (Z) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.155] [72.14.220.155]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-177781 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:27:53 +0000 (Z) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e21so118880fga.6 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.23.17 with SMTP id 17mr6035148fgw.32.1219184858769; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.97.8 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:27:38 +0100 From: Peter Tribble Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AB4300.4070401@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=T6LPt/irH5lYIHIBHKZlRfeKfR8p/e4YxPm357BncZM=; b=jWVnVWSJTB+M9edFiuql9FVxiWsWfWeMcAuCEdzct96mv/AziZ2FgiV9gP6ys299X1 7lJSEZbi6VJMIW0bIj2UnAR1xz8qTcBzx1GLeYARfg54Vkge0dCrnO3682lVMfPPPfI/ tm63Q3J8EsuZ5TQQoqRVJ/BBBmeituXEewhNg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=GJt2eSibNL9dV94zXtAbBUiit8uz3B8z/TCSLo+KhfRBMnBEi5rTxHNBPbvdFg5fa6 PFzGEItpX9prjY36nHhHnhHbgVJ9sHVmzr7FWm2mBQC1M3VyRHRhXxc4qYkHaXvG8Rro rWh6tG1+P9liKkmIrs5uCO5YKZv2IxwLA5VYA= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 2.253sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48AB4300.4070401@sun.com> Content-Length: 1722 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000006 On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Peter Tribble wrote: >> >> What customers want, need, and expect, is top. The real thing. >> >> Please scrap this idea and just ship top. Not only will it actually >> meet customers >> needs but it is substantially less effort. >> >> The only acceptable "top-like" implementation is top itself. >> > > Why? What features do customers expect from top that prstat doesn't supply? Something that behaves like top, for a start. The arguments and there meaning are different, the output is different, the user interface is different. We don't ship emacs. Would having a command called emacs that invoked vi be acceptable to users? Some of the key differences (in the default output): - top has a useful overall summary at the the top that prstat lacks entirely - top shows the last pid (useful for estimating process churn) - top shows the time - top shows overall cpus tates and memory utrilization - top allows you to change the sort order, user selection, and refresh rate dynamically - top can kill and renice a process - top show % cpu with more precision - the TIME field in top is less cluttered - generally top output is easier on the eyes That's not to say that top is perfect. It has bugs, and it's lacking some features contained in prstat in the same way that prstat lacks many of the features found in top. But to ship something that is so blatantly not top in the name of familiarity will confuse users rather than help them. (It's not just Linux familiarity, but familiarity for generations of SunOS and Solaris users as well.) -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From sommerfeld@sun.com Tue Aug 19 16:35:42 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7JNZgx9020293 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7JNZcdu018525; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:35:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5V00K01G7E5N00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thunk.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.66]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5V00JE7G7DDX00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thunk.east.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7JNZbSH025156; Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:35:35 -0400 From: Bill Sommerfeld Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <1219188935.23864.47.camel@thunk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-Length: 1134 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000007 On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 14:32 -0700, Don Cragun wrote: > Phase 1 will make top be a link to prstat. It will simply > invoke prstat as is. An accompanying man page for top will > indicate what we have done and note that we are working on a > "top like" implementation. (See top.1m in the materials > directory.) Traditionally "top" takes a number of command line arguments and options. They differ from the command line arguments and options accepted by prstat. > The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so > that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and > behave similar to the top that comes from: > http://www.unixtop.org/ > > 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): > TBD... > > 4.5. Interfaces: > A link from /usr/bin/top to /usr/bin/prstat. what's the stability level of this, and what's the stability level of command-line options to the prstat-named-top command? BTW, I don't see the value in doing phase 1; if the goal is to get something out there quickly, shipping the current open-source "top" program as part of the sfw consolidation would make more sense. - Bill From cyril.plisko@gmail.com Wed Aug 20 01:40:44 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7K8ehGu006254 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7K8egn9007886 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00J035FT8U00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00DW15FSIC30@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54] (may be forged)) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7K8cI4D006903 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:40:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms24es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([150.143.232.70] [150.143.232.70]) by relay23i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2070927 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:40:39 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay23.sun.com (relay23.sun.com [192.12.251.54]) by mms24es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-65703506 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:40:39 +0000 (Z) Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.241] [209.85.198.241]) by relay23i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-22563149 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:40:39 +0000 (Z) Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k29so322386rvb.8 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.98.18 with SMTP id a18mr4656096rvm.60.1219221589080; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.141.21 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:39:48 +0300 From: Cyril Plisko Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> Sender: cyril.plisko@gmail.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=pKQeijsXC0AfbjZMhf/V4CWi6XuaoSsAZmHaai9MXn8=; b=vrUc00SS6eQ8SeRwcYdgEgAloFcQHvZeyyURLL6MojMEpxbygEmMHhjVzhntquzWXP EVarzMtcxE85+G3FV/6e0Q3r2uS3lO7cvzLeA5YmiFEn7ufEQYF08J2U/j1UsMoo/cXe lWDN1EvnNX2TNIc9RvqEd8ICPs8w5z9KZTTFA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=aBrDIhIgLV/GX1QLnwC4X0dfSMO3Db6R3LW9rmGjx7m8ly+WazsoCPqJjIZvnb6wCR ue6W5o1XzFpUmLdX/K1zNPNMSiBw/HYuGgIgKNWb9WB9mlF/WEbINDiNlh+7teGE/PzZ oWxApLqusAgKZP4m4oThrOjhiBkhvWtm0ftbo= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Google-Sender-Auth: e2693462e175f8e5 X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.053sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-Length: 845 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000008 On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Don Cragun wrote: > I'm sponsoring this case for Craig Mohrman. > The project team is requesting a minor release binding. > The timer expires Tuesday, August 26, 2008. > > > The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so > that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and > behave similar to the top that comes from: > http://www.unixtop.org/ > > 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): > TBD... > > 4.5. Interfaces: > A link from /usr/bin/top to /usr/bin/prstat. > Why not just ship original top from the cited site and be done with it ? Way less work and less surprises to the user. I always install top on all my Solaris machines and I would not appreciate it being overridden with something else. -- Regards, Cyril From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 20 02:13:45 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7K9DjxD008299 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7K9Di7d055528; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00L076YVXL00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00DVZ6YUIE40@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7K9DgDp000702; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:13:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5W00K0167IBR00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:13:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5W007R96YOQ6C0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:13:37 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:13:36 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <48ABE040.1030405@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 938 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000009 I think both phases of this project are a very bad idea and I do not approve of the strategy. The Solaris security team did a similar analysis for 'pfexec' vs 'sudo' for almost identical reasons as this case. Like this case we planed to initially ship a symlink pfexec -> sudo and later enhance pfexec with the functionality that sudo had. In the end we choose not to do that because it as more engineering effort, it would never be perfect and there really was no harm in having the real sudo installed on the system. So that strategy was abandoned and now Solaris/OpenSolaris has the real sudo. I strongly suggest that this case be withdrawn and a new case be filed to just ship top. This is is also misnamed there are no prstat enhancements in this case just a confusing symlink from prstat -> top. I'm think that prstat could do with some enhancements but this case didn't actually provide any. -- Darren J Moffat From casper@holland.sun.com Wed Aug 20 04:35:46 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KBZjWT010712 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KBZfxD010493 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:35:44 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00C23DJI8M00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.192]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W005IJDJG1P70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.13.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KBS62g028616; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:28:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:28:06 +0200 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Peter Tribble Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <200808201128.m7KBS62g028616@dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-Length: 1745 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000010 >On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Don Cragun wrote: > >> 4. Technical Description: >> 4.1. Details: >> The top utility available on Linux systems is not provided on >> Solaris systems. Since top is the Linux utility most requested >> by users running OpenSolaris systems, we need to provide a top >> utility in OpenSolaris 2008.11. In many cases, output from top >> is very similar to output produced by the Solaris prstat >> utility. We will not be able to provide all of the features of >> the various Linux top utilities (features and options vary >> between Linux systems) in time for 2008.11, so we plan to >> provide top in two phases. This case describes phase 1. A >> later case will provide phase 2. >> >> Phase 1 will make top be a link to prstat. It will simply >> invoke prstat as is. An accompanying man page for top will >> indicate what we have done and note that we are working on a >> "top like" implementation. (See top.1m in the materials >> directory.) >> >> The intent for Phase 2 will be to add features to prstat so >> that when prstat is invoked with the name top it will look and >> behave similar to the top that comes from: >> http://www.unixtop.org/ > >No. > >What customers want, need, and expect, is top. The real thing. > >Please scrap this idea and just ship top. Not only will it actually >meet customers >needs but it is substantially less effort. > >The only acceptable "top-like" implementation is top itself. I can only say: +1 (Although, unfortunately, they've "fixed" top so it no longer prints the %CPU as "ps" does) Casper From gdamore@sun.com Wed Aug 20 08:30:15 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KFUFnN017630 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KFUCo9018707; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W0011ROEDPV00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00FBTOEA9O80@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7KFUAfg006057; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5W00J01OE05C00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.172] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5W00G09OE9WM80@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:23:53 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48ABE040.1030405@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <48AC3709.9020706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48ABE040.1030405@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) Content-Length: 1583 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000011 Darren J Moffat wrote: > I think both phases of this project are a very bad idea and I do not > approve of the strategy. > > The Solaris security team did a similar analysis for 'pfexec' vs > 'sudo' for almost identical reasons as this case. Like this case we > planed to initially ship a symlink pfexec -> sudo and later enhance > pfexec with the functionality that sudo had. In the end we choose > not to do that because it as more engineering effort, it would never > be perfect and there really was no harm in having the real sudo > installed on the system. So that strategy was abandoned and now > Solaris/OpenSolaris has the real sudo. > > I strongly suggest that this case be withdrawn and a new case be filed > to just ship top. > > This is is also misnamed there are no prstat enhancements in this case > just a confusing symlink from prstat -> top. > > I'm think that prstat could do with some enhancements but this case > didn't actually provide any. As for me, I'd agree with phase 2, if phase 2 provides near-enough approximation of functionality that users are unlikely to notice the difference. But phase 1 seems more and more like a terrible idea. I think the problem at hand is that top may lack support for some Solaris features (zones, projects), and uses direct kmem access instead of nicer methods such as /proc. So that begs the question: which problem is harder to solve: give prstat top-like functionality (enough so users will not notice the difference), or give top enhancements to make it competitive with prstat? -- Garrett From swalker@opensolaris.org Wed Aug 20 08:45:15 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KFjF9N018127 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KFj4Y2007030; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:45:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00B0JP37AL00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00N8CP361L80@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.250.173] (punchin-client-10-7-250-173.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.250.173]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7KFj2Lh013547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:45:02 -0500 From: Shawn Walker Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC3709.9020706@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Darren J Moffat , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com, Don Cragun Message-id: <48AC3BFE.80600@opensolaris.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48ABE040.1030405@Sun.COM> <48AC3709.9020706@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080714) Content-Length: 1503 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000012 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Darren J Moffat wrote: >> I think both phases of this project are a very bad idea and I do not >> approve of the strategy. >> >> The Solaris security team did a similar analysis for 'pfexec' vs >> 'sudo' for almost identical reasons as this case. Like this case we >> planed to initially ship a symlink pfexec -> sudo and later enhance >> pfexec with the functionality that sudo had. In the end we choose >> not to do that because it as more engineering effort, it would never >> be perfect and there really was no harm in having the real sudo >> installed on the system. So that strategy was abandoned and now >> Solaris/OpenSolaris has the real sudo. >> >> I strongly suggest that this case be withdrawn and a new case be filed >> to just ship top. >> >> This is is also misnamed there are no prstat enhancements in this case >> just a confusing symlink from prstat -> top. >> >> I'm think that prstat could do with some enhancements but this case >> didn't actually provide any. > > As for me, I'd agree with phase 2, if phase 2 provides near-enough > approximation of functionality that users are unlikely to notice the > difference. But phase 1 seems more and more like a terrible idea. Phase 1 solves the problem of "I type top and nothing happens." In my view, having something is better than nothing if that something doesn't look like "top" yet. As the case materials pointed out, top varies from distribution to distribution. -- Shawn Walker From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 20 08:50:45 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KFojXg018200 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KFoiGJ060854; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:50:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W0023BPCJYR00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00FFRPCH9SB0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7KFofTh025599; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:50:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5W00A01PBZ0C00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:50:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5W00F70PCGAK20@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:50:41 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:50:40 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC3BFE.80600@opensolaris.org> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Shawn Walker Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com, Don Cragun Message-id: <48AC3D50.2070302@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48ABE040.1030405@Sun.COM> <48AC3709.9020706@sun.com> <48AC3BFE.80600@opensolaris.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 1480 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000013 Shawn Walker wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Darren J Moffat wrote: >>> I think both phases of this project are a very bad idea and I do not >>> approve of the strategy. >>> >>> The Solaris security team did a similar analysis for 'pfexec' vs >>> 'sudo' for almost identical reasons as this case. Like this case we >>> planed to initially ship a symlink pfexec -> sudo and later enhance >>> pfexec with the functionality that sudo had. In the end we choose >>> not to do that because it as more engineering effort, it would never >>> be perfect and there really was no harm in having the real sudo >>> installed on the system. So that strategy was abandoned and now >>> Solaris/OpenSolaris has the real sudo. >>> >>> I strongly suggest that this case be withdrawn and a new case be >>> filed to just ship top. >>> >>> This is is also misnamed there are no prstat enhancements in this >>> case just a confusing symlink from prstat -> top. >>> >>> I'm think that prstat could do with some enhancements but this case >>> didn't actually provide any. >> >> As for me, I'd agree with phase 2, if phase 2 provides near-enough >> approximation of functionality that users are unlikely to notice the >> difference. But phase 1 seems more and more like a terrible idea. > > Phase 1 solves the problem of "I type top and nothing happens." So we should ship the real top - or maybe a command that says "top not delivered yet use /usr/bin/prstat" -- Darren J Moffat From gdamore@Sun.COM Wed Aug 20 08:50:58 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KFovmq018212 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KFolvl009547; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:50:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00B0JPCTTU00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00NLNPCS1F80@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7KFoqZ6004505; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5W00G01O8M3200@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.172] by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5W00HYYPCNK430@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:44:31 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC3BFE.80600@opensolaris.org> Sender: Garrett.Damore@Sun.COM To: Shawn Walker Cc: Darren J Moffat , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Craig.Mohrman@Sun.COM, Don Cragun Message-id: <48AC3BDF.9060508@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48ABE040.1030405@Sun.COM> <48AC3709.9020706@sun.com> <48AC3BFE.80600@opensolaris.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) Content-Length: 1998 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000014 Shawn Walker wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Darren J Moffat wrote: >>> I think both phases of this project are a very bad idea and I do not >>> approve of the strategy. >>> >>> The Solaris security team did a similar analysis for 'pfexec' vs >>> 'sudo' for almost identical reasons as this case. Like this case we >>> planed to initially ship a symlink pfexec -> sudo and later enhance >>> pfexec with the functionality that sudo had. In the end we choose >>> not to do that because it as more engineering effort, it would never >>> be perfect and there really was no harm in having the real sudo >>> installed on the system. So that strategy was abandoned and now >>> Solaris/OpenSolaris has the real sudo. >>> >>> I strongly suggest that this case be withdrawn and a new case be >>> filed to just ship top. >>> >>> This is is also misnamed there are no prstat enhancements in this >>> case just a confusing symlink from prstat -> top. >>> >>> I'm think that prstat could do with some enhancements but this case >>> didn't actually provide any. >> >> As for me, I'd agree with phase 2, if phase 2 provides near-enough >> approximation of functionality that users are unlikely to notice the >> difference. But phase 1 seems more and more like a terrible idea. > > Phase 1 solves the problem of "I type top and nothing happens." > > In my view, having something is better than nothing if that something > doesn't look like "top" yet. As the case materials pointed out, top > varies from distribution to distribution. See my earlier description of usage involving exec, where the surprise lack of functionality in top could be viewed as harmful. The other issue is different command line arguments. Perhaps the easiest thing for phase 1 is to just ship unaltered "top" as folks have suggested. Phase 2 could examine whether to enhance top with Solaris features, or to enhance prstat and replace the top. (Either approach seems equally valid to me.) -- Garrett From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Wed Aug 20 08:58:53 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KFwrI3018664 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KFwpIq006799; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00C0RPQ4J600@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00N7XPQ31I90@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7KFpLCq019265; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id m7KFpLs6019262; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:51:21 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC3BFE.80600@opensolaris.org> To: Shawn Walker Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com, Don Cragun Message-id: <18604.15737.670072.713380@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808192132.m7JLWZUu007583@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48ABE040.1030405@Sun.COM> <48AC3709.9020706@sun.com> <48AC3BFE.80600@opensolaris.org> Content-Length: 882 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000015 Shawn Walker writes: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > As for me, I'd agree with phase 2, if phase 2 provides near-enough > > approximation of functionality that users are unlikely to notice the > > difference. But phase 1 seems more and more like a terrible idea. > > Phase 1 solves the problem of "I type top and nothing happens." > > In my view, having something is better than nothing if that something > doesn't look like "top" yet. As the case materials pointed out, top > varies from distribution to distribution. Simply integrating the existing 'top' utility would also fix that problem, and would do it without creating a bait-n-switch problem. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From dwc@spartan.eng.sun.com Wed Aug 20 09:37:20 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KGbKwT020816 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KGbHYA028846 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:37:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00505RI6VX00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00FUSRI59WD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KGbHcF001306; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m7KGTmgq001473; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dwc@localhost) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m7KGTlQC001472; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:29:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 804 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000016 OK. After discussing this further with the project team and management the following changes are being made to this case: 1. There will be no link (neither hard nor symbolic) between top and prstat. 2. The real top utility will be supplied rather than changing prstat. 3. The top utility will be delivered through the SFW consolidation rather than through the ON consolidation. 4. There is no commitment at this time to do a phase 2. If there is a phase 2, it will extend top options to provide capabilities similar to those provided by the current prstat that are not yet provided by top. 5. The project team will have to get legal approval for the unixtop license (but that is not an ARC issue). This FastTrack remains running and the timeout remains the same. - Don From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 20 09:50:49 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KGomjv021790 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KGobDr000906; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:50:46 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00I17S4K0I00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00N8TS4I1MD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7KGogVk000156; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:50:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5W00M01RW38700@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:50:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5W00FL4S4IAK30@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:50:42 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:50:39 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Content-Length: 1035 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000017 Don Cragun wrote: > OK. After discussing this further with the project team and management > the following changes are being made to this case: > > 1. There will be no link (neither hard nor symbolic) between top and > prstat. > 2. The real top utility will be supplied rather than changing prstat. > 3. The top utility will be delivered through the SFW consolidation > rather than through the ON consolidation. > 4. There is no commitment at this time to do a phase 2. If there is a > phase 2, it will extend top options to provide capabilities similar > to those provided by the current prstat that are not yet provided > by top. > 5. The project team will have to get legal approval for the unixtop > license (but that is not an ARC issue). > > This FastTrack remains running and the timeout remains the same. Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine nothing in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for delivering top should be started. -- Darren J Moffat From carlsonj@phorcys.east.sun.com Wed Aug 20 10:11:34 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KHBXA7023685 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KHBNik015709; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:11:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00J03T34WJ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com ([129.148.174.143]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00ND9T331LF0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phorcys.east.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7KHBRuH026179; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from carlsonj@localhost) by phorcys.east.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id m7KHBR69026176; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:11:27 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <18604.20543.452132.411970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.3.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 557 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000018 Darren J Moffat writes: > Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine nothing > in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for delivering top > should be started. What would be the point of that? I think reusing the same case (and providing a more up-to-date synopsis) would be the better answer. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Wed Aug 20 10:15:58 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KHFwHD023868 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KHFpta001866; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00803TAISA00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W008IPTAI9G00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m7KHFrv1021560; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:15:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.1+Sun/8.14.1/Submit) id m7KHFrLa021559; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:15:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:15:53 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <18604.20543.452132.411970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> To: James Carlson Cc: Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Mail-followup-to: James Carlson , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <20080820171553.GO20924@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> <18604.20543.452132.411970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Content-Length: 905 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000019 On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:11:27PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: > Darren J Moffat writes: > > Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine nothing > > in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for delivering top > > should be started. > > What would be the point of that? I think reusing the same case (and > providing a more up-to-date synopsis) would be the better answer. It's probably useful, though marginally so, to look at case summaries and see that "prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top" was withdrawn and shortly after a case was submitted and approved for "top for OpenSolaris." Is that sufficiently useful to warrant withdrawing and submitting a new case? Dunno, but if not the IAM does need to be updated so the case shows up as "top for OpenSolaris" instead of "prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top." Nico -- From gdamore@Sun.COM Wed Aug 20 11:01:09 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KI18ke025283 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KI14Fr027020; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:01:05 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00303VDSFI00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00MY8VDS0460@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7KI14Yb027209; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5W00801U54XT00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.172] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5W00D2YVDICMC0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:54:38 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <20080820171553.GO20924@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@Sun.COM To: James Carlson , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Craig.Mohrman@Sun.COM Message-id: <48AC5A5E.9000005@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> <18604.20543.452132.411970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080820171553.GO20924@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) Content-Length: 3017 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000020 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:11:27PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: > >> Darren J Moffat writes: >> >>> Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine nothing >>> in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for delivering top >>> should be started. >>> >> What would be the point of that? I think reusing the same case (and >> providing a more up-to-date synopsis) would be the better answer. >> > > It's probably useful, though marginally so, to look at case summaries > and see that "prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top" > was withdrawn and shortly after a case was submitted and approved for > "top for OpenSolaris." Is that sufficiently useful to warrant withdrawing and > submitting a new case? > > Dunno, but if not the IAM does need to be updated so the case shows up > as "top for OpenSolaris" instead of "prstat utility enhancements to look > and act more like top." > > Nico > Okay, so while providing (shipping) unix top seems at first blush not a bad idea, there is one significant hiccup. FOSS top (the last time I looked) grunges around in kmem, making use of uncommitted and undocumented APIs, structures, etc.. (Possibly this has changed, but I sort of doubt it.) So, *particularly* given its distribution in another consolidation, I think the project team needs to either: a) document and get contracts for any non-public APIs, structures, or such that it uses or b) convert the backend data collection in top to use documented/stable/committed APIs (/proc, dtrace, or whatever.) Just "shipping" top is probably not (IMO) less work than enhancing prstat; its certainly not a simple slam dunk as some on this list have asserted. Another significant thing that must be documented with top is any security implications. I believe top is normally installed sgid or suid so it can access /dev/kmem. There are also issues with some of the actions it can perform (killing, renicing processes) -- how, if at all, are such actions audited, etc. (Does top yield privileges after attaching to kmem? There might also be concerns about interaction with least privilege awareness -- I've not studied this problem enough to know for sure.) While its likely that on a single user desktop these considerations are not important, the situation is very different in a multi-user (possibly multi-zone) enterprise environment. As a final note: I don't think we should care about the precise presentation format of data -- the fact that there are multiple implementations of top, each of which presents somewhat different output, means that we can probably safely not worry too much about that (basic usability considerations aside). Nobody should be parsing output from top on any system. (This might make conversion of prstat to support top-like features more attractive/easier than updating top to deal with the considerations I've raised above. I'm not sure.) -- Garrett From dwc@spartan.eng.sun.com Wed Aug 20 11:35:43 2008 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KIZhTM025665 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KIZhGF026060 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5W00503WZJJB00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5W00KEQWZJIE60@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KIZgwc025199; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m7KISD0M001890; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dwc@localhost) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m7KISDN8001889; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: add top utility to SFW consolidation [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] To: Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Cc: Craig.Mohrman@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <200808201828.m7KISDN8001889@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Content-Length: 1405 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000021 >From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Wed Aug 20 10:15:58 2008 > >On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:11:27PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: >> Darren J Moffat writes: >> > Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine nothing >> > in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for delivering top >> > should be started. >> >> What would be the point of that? I think reusing the same case (and >> providing a more up-to-date synopsis) would be the better answer. > >It's probably useful, though marginally so, to look at case summaries >and see that "prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top" >was withdrawn and shortly after a case was submitted and approved for >"top for OpenSolaris." Is that sufficiently useful to warrant withdrawing and >submitting a new case? > >Dunno, but if not the IAM does need to be updated so the case shows up >as "top for OpenSolaris" instead of "prstat utility enhancements to look >and act more like top." OK. As shown in the new subject line, the case title has been changed. (I will check off-line with John about what has to happen besides changing the Name: line in the IAM file to make the rest of the ARC paperwork catch up.) For your reading enjoyment, you will also find the new man page in materials/new_top.1M in the case directory. FYI, the project team will be available for ARC business at today's PSARC meeting. - Don From craig.mohrman@sun.com Wed Aug 20 14:22:16 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KLMFVo006879 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KLM05F006363; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:22:07 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5X00B0D4OTV400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5X007JS4OSVH40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.226.160] (shortty.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.160]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7KLM2gv012585; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:22:00 -0700 From: Craig Mohrman Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC5A5E.9000005@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: James Carlson , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig Mohrman Message-id: <48AC8AF8.7020308@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> <18604.20543.452132.411970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080820171553.GO20924@Sun.COM> <48AC5A5E.9000005@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080325) Content-Length: 2736 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000022 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:11:27PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: >> >>> Darren J Moffat writes: >>> >>>> Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine >>>> nothing in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for >>>> delivering top should be started. >>>> >>> What would be the point of that? I think reusing the same case (and >>> providing a more up-to-date synopsis) would be the better answer. >>> >> >> It's probably useful, though marginally so, to look at case summaries >> and see that "prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top" >> was withdrawn and shortly after a case was submitted and approved for >> "top for OpenSolaris." Is that sufficiently useful to warrant >> withdrawing and >> submitting a new case? >> >> Dunno, but if not the IAM does need to be updated so the case shows up >> as "top for OpenSolaris" instead of "prstat utility enhancements to look >> and act more like top." >> >> Nico >> > Okay, so while providing (shipping) unix top seems at first blush not > a bad idea, there is one significant hiccup. FOSS top (the last time > I looked) grunges around in kmem, making use of uncommitted and > undocumented APIs, structures, etc.. (Possibly this has changed, but > I sort of doubt it.) > > So, *particularly* given its distribution in another consolidation, I > think the project team needs to either: > > a) document and get contracts for any non-public APIs, structures, or > such that it uses > > or > > b) convert the backend data collection in top to use > documented/stable/committed APIs (/proc, dtrace, or whatever.) > > Just "shipping" top is probably not (IMO) less work than enhancing > prstat; its certainly not a simple slam dunk as some on this list have > asserted. > > Another significant thing that must be documented with top is any > security implications. I believe top is normally installed sgid or > suid so it can access /dev/kmem. There are also issues with some of > the actions it can perform (killing, renicing processes) -- how, if at > all, are such actions audited, etc. (Does top yield privileges after > attaching to kmem? There might also be concerns about interaction > with least privilege awareness -- I've not studied this problem enough > to know for sure.) While its likely that on a single user desktop > these considerations are not important, the situation is very > different in a multi-user (possibly multi-zone) enterprise environment. > To address the /dev/kmem groveling this version of top does NOT access /dev/kmem. It uses /proc. And the top binary does NOT have any special set(gu)id privileges. craig From gdamore@sun.com Wed Aug 20 15:04:14 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KM4Db0008469 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KM3lAk019974; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:04:10 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5X00D016MXOR00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5X007TE6MWVN70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7KM48d5020051; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K5X00F0165M8P00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from gdamore@sun.com) ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.251.172] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K5X001B36MTSBG0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:57:49 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC8AF8.7020308@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Craig Mohrman Cc: James Carlson , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <48AC935D.4090305@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> <18604.20543.452132.411970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080820171553.GO20924@Sun.COM> <48AC5A5E.9000005@sun.com> <48AC8AF8.7020308@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) Content-Length: 3112 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000023 Craig Mohrman wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Nicolas Williams wrote: >>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:11:27PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: >>> >>>> Darren J Moffat writes: >>>> >>>>> Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine >>>>> nothing in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for >>>>> delivering top should be started. >>>>> >>>> What would be the point of that? I think reusing the same case (and >>>> providing a more up-to-date synopsis) would be the better answer. >>>> >>> >>> It's probably useful, though marginally so, to look at case summaries >>> and see that "prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like >>> top" >>> was withdrawn and shortly after a case was submitted and approved for >>> "top for OpenSolaris." Is that sufficiently useful to warrant >>> withdrawing and >>> submitting a new case? >>> >>> Dunno, but if not the IAM does need to be updated so the case shows up >>> as "top for OpenSolaris" instead of "prstat utility enhancements to >>> look >>> and act more like top." >>> >>> Nico >>> >> Okay, so while providing (shipping) unix top seems at first blush not >> a bad idea, there is one significant hiccup. FOSS top (the last time >> I looked) grunges around in kmem, making use of uncommitted and >> undocumented APIs, structures, etc.. (Possibly this has changed, but >> I sort of doubt it.) >> >> So, *particularly* given its distribution in another consolidation, I >> think the project team needs to either: >> >> a) document and get contracts for any non-public APIs, structures, or >> such that it uses >> >> or >> >> b) convert the backend data collection in top to use >> documented/stable/committed APIs (/proc, dtrace, or whatever.) >> >> Just "shipping" top is probably not (IMO) less work than enhancing >> prstat; its certainly not a simple slam dunk as some on this list >> have asserted. >> >> Another significant thing that must be documented with top is any >> security implications. I believe top is normally installed sgid or >> suid so it can access /dev/kmem. There are also issues with some of >> the actions it can perform (killing, renicing processes) -- how, if >> at all, are such actions audited, etc. (Does top yield privileges >> after attaching to kmem? There might also be concerns about >> interaction with least privilege awareness -- I've not studied this >> problem enough to know for sure.) While its likely that on a single >> user desktop these considerations are not important, the situation is >> very different in a multi-user (possibly multi-zone) enterprise >> environment. >> > > To address the /dev/kmem groveling this version of top does NOT access > /dev/kmem. > It uses /proc. Excellent! Does it use exclusively public /proc interfaces? Any that are not public will still need to be documented/contracted. > > And the top binary does NOT have any special set(gu)id privileges. That is goodness as well. I guess top has improved quite a bit since last I looked at it. (Admittedly, it had been a while.) -- Garrett From craig.mohrman@sun.com Wed Aug 20 15:33:18 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7KMXH7A008975 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7KMX62V029289; Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:33:08 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K5X00F0J7Z52N00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K5X0075L7Z5OTC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.226.160] (shortty.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.160]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m7KMX3DJ023792; Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:33:02 -0700 From: Craig Mohrman Subject: Re: prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like top [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack timeout 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48AC935D.4090305@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: James Carlson , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig Mohrman Message-id: <48AC9B9E.5000207@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808201629.m7KGTlQC001472@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> <18604.20543.452132.411970@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <20080820171553.GO20924@Sun.COM> <48AC5A5E.9000005@sun.com> <48AC8AF8.7020308@sun.com> <48AC935D.4090305@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080325) Content-Length: 3432 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000024 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Craig Mohrman wrote: >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> Nicolas Williams wrote: >>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 01:11:27PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: >>>> >>>>> Darren J Moffat writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Given all the above this case should be marked as withdrawn sine >>>>>> nothing in the case is valid for the new proposal. A new case for >>>>>> delivering top should be started. >>>>>> >>>>> What would be the point of that? I think reusing the same case (and >>>>> providing a more up-to-date synopsis) would be the better answer. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It's probably useful, though marginally so, to look at case summaries >>>> and see that "prstat utility enhancements to look and act more like >>>> top" >>>> was withdrawn and shortly after a case was submitted and approved for >>>> "top for OpenSolaris." Is that sufficiently useful to warrant >>>> withdrawing and >>>> submitting a new case? >>>> >>>> Dunno, but if not the IAM does need to be updated so the case shows up >>>> as "top for OpenSolaris" instead of "prstat utility enhancements to >>>> look >>>> and act more like top." >>>> >>>> Nico >>>> >>> Okay, so while providing (shipping) unix top seems at first blush >>> not a bad idea, there is one significant hiccup. FOSS top (the last >>> time I looked) grunges around in kmem, making use of uncommitted and >>> undocumented APIs, structures, etc.. (Possibly this has changed, >>> but I sort of doubt it.) >>> >>> So, *particularly* given its distribution in another consolidation, >>> I think the project team needs to either: >>> >>> a) document and get contracts for any non-public APIs, structures, >>> or such that it uses >>> >>> or >>> >>> b) convert the backend data collection in top to use >>> documented/stable/committed APIs (/proc, dtrace, or whatever.) >>> >>> Just "shipping" top is probably not (IMO) less work than enhancing >>> prstat; its certainly not a simple slam dunk as some on this list >>> have asserted. >>> >>> Another significant thing that must be documented with top is any >>> security implications. I believe top is normally installed sgid or >>> suid so it can access /dev/kmem. There are also issues with some of >>> the actions it can perform (killing, renicing processes) -- how, if >>> at all, are such actions audited, etc. (Does top yield privileges >>> after attaching to kmem? There might also be concerns about >>> interaction with least privilege awareness -- I've not studied this >>> problem enough to know for sure.) While its likely that on a single >>> user desktop these considerations are not important, the situation >>> is very different in a multi-user (possibly multi-zone) enterprise >>> environment. >>> >> >> To address the /dev/kmem groveling this version of top does NOT >> access /dev/kmem. >> It uses /proc. > > Excellent! Does it use exclusively public /proc interfaces? Any that > are not public will still need to be documented/contracted. > A quick read of the source and it appears to use only standard interfaces. If I discover any non-standard interfaces I will prepare contracts for any private interfaces before integrating the packages. craig >> >> And the top binary does NOT have any special set(gu)id privileges. > > That is goodness as well. I guess top has improved quite a bit since > last I looked at it. (Admittedly, it had been a while.) > > -- Garrett > From don.cragun@sun.com Tue Aug 26 14:56:36 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7QLua2I013409 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7QLuPTI036330 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6800E17AABKG00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K68009H7AABTO90@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7QLuZHW002910; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan (spartan [129.146.226.64]) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with SMTP id m7QLfaeQ021108; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: add top utility to SFW consolidation [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack time out 08/26/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Reply-to: Don Cragun Message-id: <200808262141.m7QLfaeQ021108@spartan.eng.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.6.2 SunOS 5.10 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-MD5: RP7H8Wu5fbYqUFZTQZulKA== X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 155 Since all open issues have been resolved and there have been no additional comments for the last six days, I'm marking this case closed approved. - Don From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 27 02:24:41 2008 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7R9OeAw001292 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7R9OdAP036505; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900005653XR00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900EN965258D0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7R9OcHJ005978; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:24:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6900H01475EH00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:24:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K6900BV364OZO90@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:24:25 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:24:24 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: add top utility to SFW consolidation [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack time out 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808262141.m7QLfaeQ021108@spartan.eng.sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <48B51D48.2030502@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808262141.m7QLfaeQ021108@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Status: RO Content-Length: 641 Don Cragun wrote: > Since all open issues have been resolved and there have been no > additional comments for the last six days, I'm marking this case > closed approved. I was still waiting on a proper spec as I had asked for so I'm very surprised to see this as closed. The reason I hadn't commented was because there is no spec to comment on, just a copy of the top man page. What is the release binding, interface taxonomy, package name etc. None of that is covered in the man page. Please mark this case as waiting need spec and provide the above information. None of that was in the original spec either. -- Darren J Moffat From don.cragun@sun.com Wed Aug 27 07:52:20 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7REqJST008006 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7REqEaL020944 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.COM>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:52:18 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900903LB4FB00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K69001XPLB2P6C0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7REqC45038423; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan (spartan [129.146.226.64]) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with SMTP id m7REih8M023718; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: add top utility to SFW consolidation [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack time out 08/26/2008] To: Darren.Moffat@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Reply-to: Don Cragun Message-id: <200808271444.m7REih8M023718@spartan.eng.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.6.2 SunOS 5.10 sun4u sparc Content-type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-MD5: mVqYd+g5d9T7L0+oJgDqcA== X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 1406 >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:24:24 +0100 >From: Darren J Moffat > >Don Cragun wrote: >> Since all open issues have been resolved and there have been no >> additional comments for the last six days, I'm marking this case >> closed approved. > >I was still waiting on a proper spec as I had asked for so I'm very >surprised to see this as closed. The reason I hadn't commented was >because there is no spec to comment on, just a copy of the top man page. > >What is the release binding, interface taxonomy, package name etc. None >of that is covered in the man page. Quoting from the first message sent to this case's mail log: "The project team is requesting a minor release binding." If you were concerned that the interface taxonomy and package name were not covered, I would have expected you to request that information before the case timed out; I see no request for that information in the mail log. (It is also interesting to note that there is no interface taxonomy listed on the prstat(1M) man page.) I will get the interface taxonomy and package name from the project team later this morning. In the interest of not playing fetch a rock, what other information are you expecting when you say "etc."? - Don > >Please mark this case as waiting need spec and provide the above >information. None of that was in the original spec either. > >-- >Darren J Moffat From Darren.Moffat@sun.com Wed Aug 27 08:06:03 2008 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RF62sZ008460 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RF5vjH010645; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:06:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900E05LXZEQ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900D6GLXY3110@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m7RF5vhl026806; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:05:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0K6900801LVKDY00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> (original mail from Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:05:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.21] by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0K69007MALXVRCE0@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:05:57 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:05:55 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: add top utility to SFW consolidation [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack time out 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <200808271444.m7REih8M023718@spartan.eng.sun.com> Sender: Darren.Moffat@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <48B56D53.4040104@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808271444.m7REih8M023718@spartan.eng.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080630) Status: RO Content-Length: 1907 Don Cragun wrote: >> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:24:24 +0100 >> From: Darren J Moffat >> >> Don Cragun wrote: >>> Since all open issues have been resolved and there have been no >>> additional comments for the last six days, I'm marking this case >>> closed approved. >> I was still waiting on a proper spec as I had asked for so I'm very >> surprised to see this as closed. The reason I hadn't commented was >> because there is no spec to comment on, just a copy of the top man page. >> >> What is the release binding, interface taxonomy, package name etc. None >> of that is covered in the man page. > > Quoting from the first message sent to this case's mail log: > "The project team is requesting a minor release binding." I didn't see that as relevant given how the case morphed from a symlink to prstat to actually shipping the real top. > If you were concerned that the interface taxonomy and package name were > not covered, I would have expected you to request that information > before the case timed out; It was implicit in my message with ID: Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:50:39 +0100 Message-id: <48AC4B5F.6010407@Sun.COM> > I see no request for that information in the > mail log. (It is also interesting to note that there is no interface > taxonomy listed on the prstat(1M) man page.) I shouldn't have to ask it is required information for an ARC case. > I will get the interface taxonomy and package name from the project > team later this morning. In the interest of not playing fetch a rock, > what other information are you expecting when you say "etc."? The basic information we would expect from any fast-track case. Specifically I want to see the following: * Package name * Taxonomy of top functionality: cli arguments package name * Install location of top - I assume it is /usr/bin/top but this must be explicit -- Darren J Moffat From dwc@spartan.eng.sun.com Wed Aug 27 11:31:32 2008 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m7RIVVUc017755 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RIVTc1012654 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:31:30 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K6900B0DVGHYN00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.32]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K6900AIRVGGMK20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (spartan.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.64]) by dm-eng-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m7RIVSRf015984; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spartan.eng.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m7RINwuC024760; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dwc@localhost) by spartan.eng.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/Submit) id m7RINwmX024759; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:23:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: add top utility to SFW consolidation [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack time out 08/26/2008] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Craig.Mohrman@sun.com Message-id: <200808271823.m7RINwmX024759@spartan.eng.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 209 This case was approved (again) at this morning's PSARC meeting. For the record, this case delivers /usr/bin/top with interface taxonomy uncommitted using package SUNWtop with a minor release binding. - Don From craig.mohrman@Sun.COM Tue Sep 16 15:44:27 2008 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8GMiRnW029916 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id m8GMiPoG003808; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0K7B00M018I0J700@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.63]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0K7B00BZQ8I0SK50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.226.160] (shortty.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.160]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8GMi6dG781251; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:44:05 -0700 From: Craig Mohrman Subject: Re: add top utility to SFW consolidation [PSARC/2008/533 FastTrack time out 08/26/2008] In-reply-to: <48B56D53.4040104@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <48D036B5.70209@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200808271444.m7REih8M023718@spartan.eng.sun.com> <48B56D53.4040104@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080325) Status: RO Content-Length: 198 C-Team has asked me to follow-up to PSARC. top is ISA execd. So the files laid down will be: /usr/bin/top a hardlink to /usr/lib/isaexec /usr/bin/{32-bit ISA}/top /usr/bin/{64-bit ISA}/top craig