From wyllys@borg.sfbay.sun.com Thu Jul 16 09:16:31 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6GGGVi1014906 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6GGGOEW011494 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.Com>; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:16:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KMV00119UJIQ600@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from borg.sfbay ([10.5.240.20]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KMV00K1ZUJHN940@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from borg.sfbay (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by borg.sfbay (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n6GGGJCb012424; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wyllys@localhost) by borg.sfbay (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n6GGGJjr012420; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:16:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <200907161616.n6GGGJjr012420@borg.sfbay> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 17783 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: GnuPG and friends 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Wyllys Ingersoll 1.3 Date of This Document: 16 July, 2009 4. Technical Description 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: GnuPG and friends 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Wyllys Ingersoll 1.3. Date of This Document: 07/01/2009 2. Project Summary 2.1. Project Description: This project proposes to deliver GnuPG and it's associated dependencies to Solaris SFW consolidation. [from the GnuPG.org website] --- GnuPG is the GNU project's complete and free implementation of the OpenPGP standard as defined by RFC4880 . GnuPG allows to encrypt and sign your data and communication, features a versatile key managment system as well as access modules for all kind of public key directories. GnuPG, also known as GPG, is a command line tool with features for easy integration with other applications. A --- GnuPG is a commonly used free implementation of PGP software which is used to protect private data and communications. Several Linux distributions as well as BSD variants already deliver GnuPG support, [Open]Solaris is lacking this important security feature. The following open source packages will be delivered: GnuPG (current version 2.0.12) - GnuPG command and support tools, including gpg-agent and more. GPGME (current version 1.1.8) - GnuPG Made Easy is a library designed to make access to GnuPG easier for applications. libksba (current version 1.0.6) - Libksba provides an easy API to create and parse X.509 and CMS related objects. libassuan (current version 1.0.5) - Libassuan is the IPC library used by some GnuPG related software. Gnu Pth (current version 2.0.7) - Pth is a very portable POSIX/ANSI-C based library for Unix platforms which provides non-preemptive priority-based scheduling for multiple threads of execution (aka ``multithreading'') inside event-driven applications. - GnuPG depends on Pth support for the gpg-agent and gpg-connect-agent utilities that it delivers. - GPGME libraries also require Pth support The Gnome desktop team has requested that Solaris deliver GnuPG. GnuPG has several dependencies (enumerated above) that also must be integrated at the same time in order to deliver all of the functionality. Gnome desktop software needs GnuPG and GPGME in order to keep Evolution current. Seahorse also has a plugin module that depends on gnupg. All of the above will be packaged into separate packages so they can be individually maintained and updated without requiring a complete rebuild of the whole set. SUNWgnupg - Uncommitted SUNWgpgme - Uncommitted SUNWlibassuan - Uncommitted SUNWlibksba - Uncommitted SUNWpth - Uncommitted 2.2 Release Binding What is is the release binding? (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/release-taxonomy/) [ ] Major [*] Minor [ ] Patch or Micro [ ] Unknown -- ARC review required 2.3 Type of project Is this case a Linux Familiarity project? [ ] Yes [*] No 2.4 Originating Community 2.4.1 Community Name Gnu Privacy Guard (GnuPG.org) GnuPG, GPGME, libassuan, libksba Gnu Portable Threads (gnu.org/software/pth) Pth library 2.4.2 Community Involvement Indicate Sun's involvement in the community [ ] Maintainer [ ] Contributor [*] Monitoring Will the project team work with the upstream community to resolve architectural issues of interest to Sun? [*] Yes [ ] No - briefly explain Will we or are we forking from the community? [ ] Yes - ARC review required prior to forking [*] No 3.0 Technical Description 3.1 Installation & Sharable 3.1.1S Solaris Installation - section only required for Solaris Software (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/install-locations/ for details) Does this project follow the Install Locations best practice? [*] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required Does this project install into /usr under [sbin|bin|lib|include|man|share]? [*] Yes [ ] No or N/A Does this project install into /opt? [ ] Yes - explain below [*] No or N/A Does this project install into a different directory structure? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No or N/A Do any of the components of this project conflict with anything under /usr? (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2007/047/ for details) [ ] Yes - explain below [*] No If conflicts exist then will this project install under /usr/gnu? [ ] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required [*] N/A Is this project installing into /usr/sfw? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No 3.1.1W Windows Installation - section only required for Windows Software N/A 3.1.2 Share and Sharable Does the module include any components that are used or shared by other projects? [*] Yes [ ] No GnuPG is needed by Evolution and other parts of the Gnome desktop software suite. If yes are these components packaged to be shared with the other FOSS? [*] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required [ ] N/A Are these components already in the Solaris WOS? [ ] Yes [*] No - continue with next section (section 3.2) If yes are these newer versions being delivered? [ ] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required If yes are the newer versions replacing the existing versions? [ ] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required 3.2 Exported Libraries Are libraries being delivered by this project? [*] Yes [ ] No - continue with next section (section 3.3) Are 64-bit versions of the libraries being delivered? [*] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required Are static versions of the libraries being delivered? [*] Yes - ARC review required [ ] No -libassuan is designed and intended to be delivered as a static library. It is licensed under LGPLv2.1+ - All other libraries are delivered as shared objects. 3.3 Services and the /etc Directory (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/SMF-policy/) Does the project integrate anything into /etc/init.d or /etc/rc?.d? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No Does the project integrate any new entries into /etc/inittab or /etc/inetd.conf? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No Does the project integrate any private non-public files into /etc/default or /etc/ configuration files? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No Does the service manifests method context grant rights above that of the noaccess user and basic privilege set? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No 3.4 Security 3.4.1 Secure By Default (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/secure-by-default/ for details) (see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/NITS-policy/ for details) (see parts of http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/SMF-policy/ for addtional details) Are there any network services provided by this project? [*] Yes [ ] No - continue with the next section (section 3.4.2) Are network services enabled by default? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No [ ] N/A 3.4.2 Authorization (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/rbac-intro/ and http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/rbac-profiles/ and http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/rbac-profiles/ for details) Are there any setuid/setgid privileged binaries in the project? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No - continue with next section (section 3.4.3) If yes then are the setuid/setgid privileges handled by the use of roles? [ ] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required 3.4.3 Auditing (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/audit-policy/ for details) (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2003/397 for details) Does this component contain administrative or security enforcing software? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.4) (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2003/397 for details) Do the components create audit logs detailing what took place including what event took place, who was involved, when the event took place? [ ] Yes - ARC contract and Audit project team review required [*] No - ARC review required 3.4.4 Authentication (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/PAM/) Do the components contain any authentication code? [ ] Yes [*] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.5) If yes do the components use PAM (plugable authentication modules) for authentication? [ ] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required If yes is a single PAM session maintained during authentication? [ ] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required If yes are the components sufficiently privileged to allow the requested operations (authentication, password change, process credential manipulation, audit state initialization)? [ ] Yes - briefly describe below [ ] No - ARC review required 3.4.5 Passwords (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/passwords-cli/ and http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/passwords-files/ for details) Do any of the components for the project deal with passwords? [*] Yes [ ] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.6) GnuPG prompts for PINs and pass phrases in order to compute the keys for encrypting and decrypting data. If yes are these passwords entered via the CLI or environment? [*] Yes - ARC review required [ ] No Are passwords stored within the file system for the component? [ ] Yes [*] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.6) If yes are the permissions on the file such to protect exposing the password(s)? [ ] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required 3.4.6 General Security Questions (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/security-questions/ for details) Are there any network protocols used by this project? [ ] Yes [*] No - continue with the next section (section 3.5) 3.5 Networking Do the components access the network? [*] Yes [ ] No - continue with the next section (section 3.6) If yes do the components support IPv6? [*] Yes [ ] No - ARC review required - GnuPG uses libcurl to get IPv6 support. 3.6 Core Solaris Components Do the components of this project compete with or duplicate core Solaris components? [ ] Yes - ARC review required [*] No Examples of Core Solaris Components include but are not limited to: Secure By Default Authorizations PAM -- Plugable Authentication Module Privilege PRM -- Process Rights Management -- Privilege Audit xVm -- Virtualization zones / Solaris Containers PRM -- Process Rights Management RBAC -- Role Based Access Control TX / Trusted Extensions ZFS SMF -- Service Management Facility FMA -- Fault Management Architecture SCF -- Smart Card Facility IPsec 4.0 Interfaces (see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/interface-taxonomy/ for details) 4.1 Exported Interfaces Interface Name Classification Comments --------------------------- ------------------- --------------------------- SUNWgnupg Uncommitted Package /usr/bin/gpg Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/kbxutil Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpg2 Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgv2 Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgsm Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpg-agent Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/scdaemon Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgconf Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpg-connect-agent Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgkey2ssh Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgparsemail Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgsm-gencert.sh Uncommitted Command Script /usr/sbin/addgnupghome Uncommitted Command /usr/sbin/applygnupgdefaults Uncommitted Command /usr/lib/gpg-check-pattern Uncommitted Command /usr/lib/gpg2keys_ldap Uncommitted Command /usr/lib/gpg2keys_hkp Uncommitted Command /usr/lib/gpg2keys_finger Uncommitted Command /usr/lib/gpg2keys_curl Uncommitted Command /usr/share/gnupg/help.*.txt Volatile Localized Help Text Files /usr/share/gnupg/gpg-conf.skel Volatile Build Configuration /usr/share/info/gnupg.info-1 Volatile Info file /usr/share/info/gnupg.info-2 Volatile Info file /usr/share/man/man1/gpg2.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgsm.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-agend.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/scdaemon.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgv2.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/watchgnupg.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgconf.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-preset-passphrase.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-connect-agent.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgparsemail.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/symcryptrun.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgsm-gencert.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-zip.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man8/addgnupghome.8 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man8/applygnupgdefaults.8 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/doc/gnupg/* Uncommitted Documents and Examples SUNWgpgme Uncommitted Package /usr/include/gpgme.h Uncommitted header file /usr/lib/libgpgme-pth.so Uncommmitted Shared library /usr/lib/libgpgme-pthread.so Uncommmitted Shared library /usr/bin/gpgme-config Uncommitted config info script /usr/share/info/gpgme.info Volatile info file /usr/share/info/gpgme.info-1 Volatile info file /usr/share/info/gpgme.info-2 Volatile info file /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme.asd Volatile lisp packages /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme-package.lisp Volatile lisp packages /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme.lisp Volatile lisp packages /usr/share/aclocal/gpgme.m4 Volatile M4 file. /usr/lib/libgpgme.so Uncommmitted Shared library SUNWlibassuan Uncommitted Package /usr/bin/libassuan-config Uncommitted config info script /usr/include/assuan.h Uncommitted header file /usr/lib/libassuan.a Uncommitted assuan library (static) /usr/lib/libassuan-pth.a Uncommitted assuan library with pth support (static) /usr/share/aclocal/libassuan.m4 Volatile M4 file /usr/share/info/assuan.info Volatile info file SUNWlibksba Uncommitted Package /usr/lib/libksba.so Uncommitted ksba shared library /usr/include/ksba.h Uncommitted ksba header file /usr/bin/ksba-config Uncommitted ksba config script /usr/share/aclocal/ksba.m4 Volatile M4 file /usr/share/info/ksba.info Volatile info file SUNWpth Uncommitted Package /usr/bin/pth-config Uncommitted pth config script /usr/man/man1/pth-config.1 Uncommitted pth config script manpage /usr/man/man3/pth.3 Uncommitted pth library man page /usr/include/pth.h Uncommitted Pth header file /usr/lib/libpth.so Uncommitted Pth library /usr/share/aclocal/pth.m4 Volatile M4 file 4.2 Imported Interfaces Interface Name Classification Comments --------------------------- -------------------- -------------------------- libbz2 Committed SUNWbzip libreadline Uncommitted SUNWgnu-readline libgcrypt Volatile SUNWlibgcrypt libgpg-error Volatile SUNWlibgpg-error libcurl Uncommitted SUNWcurl libssl Volatile SUNWopenssl * contract required libcrypto Volatile SUNWopenssl * contract required libgss Committed SUNWgss libidn Uncommitted SUNWlibidn libusb External SUNWlibusb libresolv Committed libsocket Committed libnsl Committed libdl Committed libz Committed PSARC 2006/537 libassuan Uncommmited * delivered by this project * libksba Uncommmited * delivered by this project * libpth Uncommmited * delivered by this project * Appendix A - References GnuPG home page: http://www.gnupg.org GnuPG 2.0 Manual: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/gnupg/ libksba Manual: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/ksba libassuan Manual: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/assuan GPGME Information: http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpgme/index.en.html Gnu Pth manual: http://www.gnu.org/software/pth/pth-manual.html 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: SFW 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From Garrett.Damore@sun.com Thu Jul 16 15:56:17 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6GMuGJl001527 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6GMuEjb021703 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:56:15 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KMW00L03D1Q1800@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KMW00BZND1PDP70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6GMuDNF018099 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KMW00K00BUA2Q00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.32] ([unknown] [130.102.8.28]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KMW00GWLD1F2AG0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:56:02 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <200907161616.n6GGGJjr012420@borg.sfbay> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A5FB002.6030801@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200907161616.n6GGGJjr012420@borg.sfbay> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090505) Status: RO Content-Length: 18822 +1. Note that the answer to the second part of 3.4.3 is not required since the first part is no. -- Garrett Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI > This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > GnuPG and friends > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Wyllys Ingersoll > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 16 July, 2009 > 4. Technical Description > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > GnuPG and friends > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Wyllys Ingersoll > > 1.3. Date of This Document: > 07/01/2009 > > 2. Project Summary > 2.1. Project Description: > This project proposes to deliver GnuPG and it's associated dependencies to > Solaris SFW consolidation. > > [from the GnuPG.org website] > --- > GnuPG is the GNU project's complete and free implementation of the OpenPGP > standard as defined by RFC4880 . GnuPG allows to encrypt and sign your data and > communication, features a versatile key managment system as well as access modules > for all kind of public key directories. GnuPG, also known as GPG, is a command line > tool with features for easy integration with other applications. A > --- > > GnuPG is a commonly used free implementation of PGP software which is used > to protect private data and communications. Several Linux distributions > as well as BSD variants already deliver GnuPG support, [Open]Solaris is > lacking this important security feature. > > The following open source packages will be delivered: > GnuPG (current version 2.0.12) > - GnuPG command and support tools, including gpg-agent and more. > GPGME (current version 1.1.8) > - GnuPG Made Easy is a library designed to make access to GnuPG easier for applications. > libksba (current version 1.0.6) > - Libksba provides an easy API to create and parse X.509 and CMS related objects. > libassuan (current version 1.0.5) > - Libassuan is the IPC library used by some GnuPG related software. > Gnu Pth (current version 2.0.7) > - Pth is a very portable POSIX/ANSI-C based library for Unix platforms > which provides non-preemptive priority-based scheduling for multiple > threads of execution (aka ``multithreading'') inside event-driven > applications. > - GnuPG depends on Pth support for the gpg-agent and gpg-connect-agent > utilities that it delivers. > - GPGME libraries also require Pth support > > The Gnome desktop team has requested that Solaris deliver GnuPG. GnuPG > has several dependencies (enumerated above) that also must be integrated > at the same time in order to deliver all of the functionality. > > Gnome desktop software needs GnuPG and GPGME in order to keep Evolution current. > Seahorse also has a plugin module that depends on gnupg. > > All of the above will be packaged into separate packages so they can be individually > maintained and updated without requiring a complete rebuild of the whole set. > SUNWgnupg - Uncommitted > SUNWgpgme - Uncommitted > SUNWlibassuan - Uncommitted > SUNWlibksba - Uncommitted > SUNWpth - Uncommitted > > 2.2 Release Binding > What is is the release binding? > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/release-taxonomy/) > [ ] Major > [*] Minor > [ ] Patch or Micro > [ ] Unknown -- ARC review required > > 2.3 Type of project > Is this case a Linux Familiarity project? > [ ] Yes > [*] No > > 2.4 Originating Community > 2.4.1 Community Name > Gnu Privacy Guard (GnuPG.org) > GnuPG, GPGME, libassuan, libksba > Gnu Portable Threads (gnu.org/software/pth) > Pth library > > 2.4.2 Community Involvement > Indicate Sun's involvement in the community > [ ] Maintainer > [ ] Contributor > [*] Monitoring > > Will the project team work with the upstream community to resolve > architectural issues of interest to Sun? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - briefly explain > > Will we or are we forking from the community? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required prior to forking > [*] No > > > 3.0 Technical Description > 3.1 Installation & Sharable > 3.1.1S Solaris Installation - section only required for Solaris Software > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/install-locations/ > for details) > Does this project follow the Install Locations best practice? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > Does this project install into /usr under [sbin|bin|lib|include|man|share]? > [*] Yes > [ ] No or N/A > > Does this project install into /opt? > [ ] Yes - explain below > [*] No or N/A > > Does this project install into a different directory structure? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No or N/A > > Do any of the components of this project conflict with anything under /usr? > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2007/047/ for details) > [ ] Yes - explain below > [*] No > > If conflicts exist then will this project install under /usr/gnu? > [ ] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > [*] N/A > > Is this project installing into /usr/sfw? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No > > 3.1.1W Windows Installation - section only required for Windows Software > N/A > > 3.1.2 Share and Sharable > Does the module include any components that are used or shared by > other projects? > [*] Yes > [ ] No > > GnuPG is needed by Evolution and other parts of the Gnome desktop software suite. > > If yes are these components packaged to be shared with the other FOSS? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > [ ] N/A > > Are these components already in the Solaris WOS? > [ ] Yes > [*] No - continue with next section (section 3.2) > > If yes are these newer versions being delivered? > [ ] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > If yes are the newer versions replacing the existing versions? > [ ] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > 3.2 Exported Libraries > Are libraries being delivered by this project? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - continue with next section (section 3.3) > > Are 64-bit versions of the libraries being delivered? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > Are static versions of the libraries being delivered? > [*] Yes - ARC review required > [ ] No > > -libassuan is designed and intended to be delivered as a static library. It is > licensed under LGPLv2.1+ > > - All other libraries are delivered as shared objects. > 3.3 Services and the /etc Directory > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/SMF-policy/) > Does the project integrate anything into /etc/init.d or /etc/rc?.d? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No > > Does the project integrate any new entries into /etc/inittab or > /etc/inetd.conf? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No > > Does the project integrate any private non-public files into /etc/default > or /etc/ configuration files? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No > > Does the service manifests method context grant rights above that > of the noaccess user and basic privilege set? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No > > 3.4 Security > 3.4.1 Secure By Default > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/secure-by-default/ for details) > (see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/NITS-policy/ for details) > (see parts of http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/SMF-policy/ for > addtional details) > Are there any network services provided by this project? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - continue with the next section (section 3.4.2) > > Are network services enabled by default? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No > [ ] N/A > > 3.4.2 Authorization > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/rbac-intro/ and > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/rbac-profiles/ and > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/rbac-profiles/ > for details) > Are there any setuid/setgid privileged binaries in the project? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No - continue with next section (section 3.4.3) > > If yes then are the setuid/setgid privileges handled by the use of roles? > [ ] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > 3.4.3 Auditing > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/audit-policy/ for details) > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2003/397 for details) > Does this component contain administrative or security enforcing software? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.4) > > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2003/397 for details) > Do the components create audit logs detailing what took place including what event > took place, who was involved, when the event took place? > [ ] Yes - ARC contract and Audit project team review required > [*] No - ARC review required > > 3.4.4 Authentication > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/PAM/) > Do the components contain any authentication code? > [ ] Yes > [*] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.5) > > If yes do the components use PAM (plugable authentication modules) for authentication? > [ ] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > If yes is a single PAM session maintained during authentication? > [ ] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > If yes are the components sufficiently privileged to allow the requested > operations (authentication, password change, process credential manipulation, > audit state initialization)? > [ ] Yes - briefly describe below > [ ] No - ARC review required > > 3.4.5 Passwords > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/passwords-cli/ and > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/passwords-files/ for details) > Do any of the components for the project deal with passwords? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.6) > > GnuPG prompts for PINs and pass phrases in order to compute the keys for > encrypting and decrypting data. > > If yes are these passwords entered via the CLI or environment? > [*] Yes - ARC review required > [ ] No > > Are passwords stored within the file system for the component? > [ ] Yes > [*] No - continue to next section (section 3.4.6) > > If yes are the permissions on the file such to protect exposing the password(s)? > [ ] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > 3.4.6 General Security Questions > (see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/bestpractices/security-questions/ for details) > Are there any network protocols used by this project? > [ ] Yes > [*] No - continue with the next section (section 3.5) > > 3.5 Networking > Do the components access the network? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - continue with the next section (section 3.6) > > If yes do the components support IPv6? > [*] Yes > [ ] No - ARC review required > > - GnuPG uses libcurl to get IPv6 support. > > 3.6 Core Solaris Components > Do the components of this project compete with or duplicate core > Solaris components? > [ ] Yes - ARC review required > [*] No > > Examples of Core Solaris Components include but are not limited to: > > Secure By Default > Authorizations > PAM -- Plugable Authentication Module > Privilege > PRM -- Process Rights Management -- Privilege > Audit > xVm -- Virtualization > zones / Solaris Containers > PRM -- Process Rights Management > RBAC -- Role Based Access Control > TX / Trusted Extensions > ZFS > SMF -- Service Management Facility > FMA -- Fault Management Architecture > SCF -- Smart Card Facility > IPsec > > 4.0 Interfaces > (see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/interface-taxonomy/ for details) > 4.1 Exported Interfaces > > Interface Name Classification Comments > --------------------------- ------------------- --------------------------- > SUNWgnupg Uncommitted Package > /usr/bin/gpg Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/kbxutil Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpg2 Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpgv2 Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpgsm Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpg-agent Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/scdaemon Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpgconf Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpg-connect-agent Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpgkey2ssh Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpgparsemail Uncommitted Command > /usr/bin/gpgsm-gencert.sh Uncommitted Command Script > /usr/sbin/addgnupghome Uncommitted Command > /usr/sbin/applygnupgdefaults Uncommitted Command > > /usr/lib/gpg-check-pattern Uncommitted Command > /usr/lib/gpg2keys_ldap Uncommitted Command > /usr/lib/gpg2keys_hkp Uncommitted Command > /usr/lib/gpg2keys_finger Uncommitted Command > /usr/lib/gpg2keys_curl Uncommitted Command > > /usr/share/gnupg/help.*.txt Volatile Localized Help Text Files > /usr/share/gnupg/gpg-conf.skel Volatile Build Configuration > /usr/share/info/gnupg.info-1 Volatile Info file > /usr/share/info/gnupg.info-2 Volatile Info file > > /usr/share/man/man1/gpg2.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpgsm.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-agend.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/scdaemon.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpgv2.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/watchgnupg.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpgconf.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-preset-passphrase.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-connect-agent.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpgparsemail.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/symcryptrun.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpgsm-gencert.1 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-zip.1 Uncommitted Manpage > > /usr/share/man/man8/addgnupghome.8 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man8/applygnupgdefaults.8 Uncommitted Manpage > > /usr/share/doc/gnupg/* Uncommitted Documents and Examples > > SUNWgpgme Uncommitted Package > /usr/include/gpgme.h Uncommitted header file > /usr/lib/libgpgme-pth.so Uncommmitted Shared library > /usr/lib/libgpgme-pthread.so Uncommmitted Shared library > /usr/bin/gpgme-config Uncommitted config info script > /usr/share/info/gpgme.info Volatile info file > /usr/share/info/gpgme.info-1 Volatile info file > /usr/share/info/gpgme.info-2 Volatile info file > /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme.asd Volatile lisp packages > /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme-package.lisp Volatile lisp packages > /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme.lisp Volatile lisp packages > /usr/share/aclocal/gpgme.m4 Volatile M4 file. > /usr/lib/libgpgme.so Uncommmitted Shared library > > SUNWlibassuan Uncommitted Package > /usr/bin/libassuan-config Uncommitted config info script > /usr/include/assuan.h Uncommitted header file > /usr/lib/libassuan.a Uncommitted assuan library (static) > /usr/lib/libassuan-pth.a Uncommitted assuan library with pth support (static) > /usr/share/aclocal/libassuan.m4 Volatile M4 file > /usr/share/info/assuan.info Volatile info file > > SUNWlibksba Uncommitted Package > /usr/lib/libksba.so Uncommitted ksba shared library > /usr/include/ksba.h Uncommitted ksba header file > /usr/bin/ksba-config Uncommitted ksba config script > /usr/share/aclocal/ksba.m4 Volatile M4 file > /usr/share/info/ksba.info Volatile info file > > SUNWpth Uncommitted Package > /usr/bin/pth-config Uncommitted pth config script > /usr/man/man1/pth-config.1 Uncommitted pth config script manpage > /usr/man/man3/pth.3 Uncommitted pth library man page > /usr/include/pth.h Uncommitted Pth header file > /usr/lib/libpth.so Uncommitted Pth library > /usr/share/aclocal/pth.m4 Volatile M4 file > > > 4.2 Imported Interfaces > Interface Name Classification Comments > --------------------------- -------------------- -------------------------- > libbz2 Committed SUNWbzip > libreadline Uncommitted SUNWgnu-readline > libgcrypt Volatile SUNWlibgcrypt > libgpg-error Volatile SUNWlibgpg-error > libcurl Uncommitted SUNWcurl > libssl Volatile SUNWopenssl * contract required > libcrypto Volatile SUNWopenssl * contract required > libgss Committed SUNWgss > libidn Uncommitted SUNWlibidn > libusb External SUNWlibusb > libresolv Committed > libsocket Committed > libnsl Committed > libdl Committed > libz Committed PSARC 2006/537 > libassuan Uncommmited * delivered by this project * > libksba Uncommmited * delivered by this project * > libpth Uncommmited * delivered by this project * > > > Appendix A - References > GnuPG home page: http://www.gnupg.org > GnuPG 2.0 Manual: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/gnupg/ > libksba Manual: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/ksba > libassuan Manual: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/assuan > GPGME Information: http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpgme/index.en.html > Gnu Pth manual: http://www.gnu.org/software/pth/pth-manual.html > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > SFW > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > From dcragun@sonic.net Wed Jul 22 01:09:03 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6M8931F023744 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6M893Us050566 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN600N1JBZ22S00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN600JG7BZ12K30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6M88sdc007170 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:09:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.11] [160.41.221.11]) by relay44i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-81594 for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:08:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-13149116 for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:08:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245] [64.142.16.245]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-13880449 for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:08:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from webmail.sonic.net (b.webmail.sonic.net [64.142.100.148]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id n6M88kZD028328 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:08:46 -0700 Received: from 76.191.129.144 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dcragun) by webmail.sonic.net with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:08:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.172sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.9a Status: RO Content-Length: 504 The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of standard function names? - Don From Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com Wed Jul 22 01:47:23 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6M8lLto024073 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6M8lFkS004784 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:47:18 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN600701DQREG00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN600J3FDQR2KA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6M8lEIN026653 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:47:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.12] [160.41.221.12]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-604114 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:45:13 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay43i.sun.com (relay43i.sun.com [192.5.209.74]) by mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-13334446 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:45:08 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay03-haj2.antispameurope.com ([83.246.65.53] [83.246.65.53]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-9373281 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:45:08 +0000 (Z) Received: by relay03-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA, from userid 1000) id 372F263C093; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:45:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by relay03-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA) with ESMTP id 9C19C63C088; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:45:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr.fokus.fraunhofer.de [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n6M8j6xX006521; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:45:06 +0200 (MEST) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:45:06 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:44:57 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> Sender: Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com, dcragun@sonic.net Message-id: <4a66d189.Mz1T11+tDJ3c55Xa%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 3.369sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2009 08:45:06.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[B665D170:01CA0AA8] Status: RO Content-Length: 1588 Don Cragun wrote: > The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't > duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth > library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate > the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic > libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. > > Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX > threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of > standard function names? It depends on the intention for this "duplication". I am not sure if you did try to write portable software before. In many cases, you may implement replacements for POSIX, so reimplementation of POSIX functions only appear on platforms that are not POSIX compliant. In case of threads, you would need to write something as big as Cygwin if you like to use threads in an application that is also portable to Win-NT. If you like to implement a smaller solution, you end up with something that may only be close to the official POSIX thread interface if you like to support Win-NT. This is mainly a result of the ideosyncratic mutex implementation from Microsoft. If the intention of this "duplication" is portability, it is OK for me. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com Wed Jul 22 07:15:21 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6MEFKRo002131 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6MEFFgU011814 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:15:19 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN600155SXGZT00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN60001USXG4C20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6MEFFQ9001598 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:15:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KN600200STG6O00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (pool-173-72-133-94.clppva.fios.verizon.net [173.72.133.94]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KN600GJISX8WAB0@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:15:08 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A671EEC.5050502@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 833 Don Cragun wrote: > The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't > duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth > library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate > the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic > libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. > > Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX > threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of > standard function names? > > - Don The Pth library is a secondary dependency, so I answered the question with the main code (GnuPG) in mind. That said, yes it is a bit of duplication. However, the code will not work without it and because some of the code is GPLv3, we cannot modify it to remove the dependency. -Wyllys From Darren.Kenny@sun.com Thu Jul 23 00:05:59 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6N75wAp003542 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6N75jcI011763 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:05:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN800I053PW7W00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN800BG23PVANA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6N75sej021724 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:05:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KN8001002X80Z00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:05:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.226.143] ([unknown] [129.156.226.143]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KN800EDV3PKIRG0@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:05:45 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:05:46 +0100 From: Darren Kenny Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A671EEC.5050502@sun.com> Sender: Darren.Kenny@sun.com To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A680BCA.8000101@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A671EEC.5050502@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.2pre) Gecko/20090722 Lightning/1.0pre Shredder/3.0b4pre Status: RO Content-Length: 1621 On 22/07/2009 15:15, Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > Don Cragun wrote: >> The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't >> duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth >> library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate >> the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic >> libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. >> >> Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX >> threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of >> standard function names? >> >> - Don > > > The Pth library is a secondary dependency, so I answered the question with > the main code (GnuPG) in mind. That said, yes it is a bit of duplication. > However, the code will not work without it and because some of the code is > GPLv3, we cannot modify it to remove the dependency. I don't believe that is true - while GPLv3 may cause legal problems for any thing that uses it (especially if it links with it in any way) - I don't believe that precludes us from modifying GPLv3 code in anyway, especially if you would consider that a porting effort (i.e. using Solaris' pthreads instead of another implementation) - since doing so is using the system libraries, which as I understand (IANAL) it means that it's "safe" to do. The main concern is that the code changes you make, must be published (which most code is right now) - a patch should be fine - and all the better if you could push that patch upstream to the GnuPG maintainers. What makes you think that modifying GPLv3 code is not possible? Darren. From Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com Thu Jul 23 06:41:35 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6NDfYrS026497 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6NDfUt6033153 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:41:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN80000RM19NZ00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN800L4DM183730@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6NDfWmH012676 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:41:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KN800200LXGDL00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (pool-173-72-133-94.clppva.fios.verizon.net [173.72.133.94]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KN8002LCM17LW30@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:41:30 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A680BCA.8000101@Sun.COM> Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com To: Darren Kenny Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A68688A.1030106@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A671EEC.5050502@sun.com> <4A680BCA.8000101@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 1846 Darren Kenny wrote: ... > > The main concern is that the code changes you make, must be published (which > most code is right now) - a patch should be fine - and all the better if you > could push that patch upstream to the GnuPG maintainers. > > What makes you think that modifying GPLv3 code is not possible? > > Darren. Pth is actually LGPL v2.1, sorry for the confusion. GnuPG is GPLv3. When I filed the OSR for the case, I was instructed (by the lawyers) that I needed to check the box that says "As a stand alone distribution* of open source technology." and NOT the box that says: "As a stand alone distribution* of open source technology which may include Minor Contributions back to the same third party open source project from which the open source technology is being licensed. "Minor contributions" include minimal changes to the open source technology such as porting, bug fixes, or compatibility testing. These changes must be newly created by Sun or Sun employees, and may NOT include pre-existing Sun technology or new functionality." However, the issue is really around the modifications to GnuPG itself, which IS GPLv3. Specifically, the gpg-agent and gpg-connect-agent utilities that are part of the GnuPG package. While it *may* be permissible to apply patches to that code to get rid of the Pth dependency, I don't see the benefit other than to say "Look, it uses Sun native threads!". If someone wants to go to the effort of creating the patches so that it compiles on Solaris using pthreads or Solaris threads instead of Pth, they could contribute that to the upstream GnuPG community and we could catch it later in a resync/update, but I don't think it should be a goal or requirement for this project. We want to integrate with as few changes as possible against the original packages. -Wyllys From Gordon.Ross@sun.com Thu Jul 23 07:15:41 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6NEFesJ027501 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6NEFWXk022081 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:15:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN800207NM1QU00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN800LINNM03260@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6NEFaEE027692 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:15:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KN800100NH3XC00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.148.168.96] ([unknown] [129.148.168.96]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KN800MGPNLYR720@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:15:34 -0400 From: Gordon Ross Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A671EEC.5050502@sun.com> Sender: Gordon.Ross@sun.com To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1248358534.1015.6.camel@dell6300gwr> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A671EEC.5050502@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1406 > Don Cragun wrote: > > The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't > > duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth > > library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate > > the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic > > libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. > > > > Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX > > threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of > > standard function names? > > > > - Don > > > The Pth library is a secondary dependency, so I answered the question with > the main code (GnuPG) in mind. That said, yes it is a bit of duplication. > However, the code will not work without it and because some of the code is > GPLv3, we cannot modify it to remove the dependency. > > -Wyllys I can understand the desire to avoid modifying GnuPG, but if I understand this proposal correctly, we'll be rolling in a new threads implementation (the "Pth" thing) just to avoid that. Seems unfortunate. Could we instead be a little more creative and come up with some sort of Pth-compatible "shim" library built on top of Solaris threads? (Sorry, I admit I know nothing of Pth or how hard this might be.) There are lots of benefits to using real Solaris threads, such as good support for multi-thread debugging, etc. Gordon From gdamore@sun.com Thu Jul 23 11:13:02 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6NID12c009651 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6NICwwb022768 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:13:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN80061PYLNLF00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN80010GYLNNI30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6NICwQq028144 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KN800100YAZ5R00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KN800EN2YLLGQC0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:56 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <1248358534.1015.6.camel@dell6300gwr> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Gordon Ross Cc: Wyllys Ingersoll , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A68A828.4080101@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <14705.76.191.129.144.1248250126.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A671EEC.5050502@sun.com> <1248358534.1015.6.camel@dell6300gwr> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1916 Gordon Ross wrote: >> Don Cragun wrote: >> >>> The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't >>> duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth >>> library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate >>> the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic >>> libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. >>> >>> Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX >>> threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of >>> standard function names? >>> >>> - Don >>> >> The Pth library is a secondary dependency, so I answered the question with >> the main code (GnuPG) in mind. That said, yes it is a bit of duplication. >> However, the code will not work without it and because some of the code is >> GPLv3, we cannot modify it to remove the dependency. >> >> -Wyllys >> > > I can understand the desire to avoid modifying GnuPG, but if I understand > this proposal correctly, we'll be rolling in a new threads implementation > (the "Pth" thing) just to avoid that. Seems unfortunate. > > Could we instead be a little more creative and come up with some sort of > Pth-compatible "shim" library built on top of Solaris threads? > (Sorry, I admit I know nothing of Pth or how hard this might be.) > > There are lots of benefits to using real Solaris threads, such as > good support for multi-thread debugging, etc. > > Gordon > Note that the case was approved yesterday at PSARC as specified. I gave the project my +1 on the understanding that GNU Pth is required for portability reasons, and used by more projects than just this one. I would support efforts to either convert this project to native Solaris threads, or to enhance GNU Pth to "wrap" native threads, but neither effort is part of this project's proposal, and IMO fall out of scope. - Garrett From dcragun@sonic.net Thu Jul 23 20:49:59 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6O3nxnP005434 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6O3nLMP021847; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 04:49:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN90080BPA5I200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN900J9PPA4Z350@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6O3glq8025737; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:49:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-50098; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:49:16 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (relay14i.sun.com [129.179.4.124]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3736463; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:49:15 +0000 (Z) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.19.5] [64.142.19.5]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4423393; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:49:15 +0000 (Z) Received: from webmail.sonic.net (a.webmail.sonic.net [64.142.100.132]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id n6O3nFwW013788; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:49:15 -0700 Received: from 76.191.129.144 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dcragun) by webmail.sonic.net with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:49:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Cragun Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 0.086sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.9a Status: RO Content-Length: 3622 On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:56 -0700 Garrett D'Amore wrote: >Gordon Ross wrote: >>> Don Cragun wrote: >>> >>>> The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't >>>> duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth >>>> library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate >>>> the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic >>>> libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. >>>> >>>> Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX >>>> threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of >>>> standard function names? >>>> >>>> - Don >>>> >>> The Pth library is a secondary dependency, so I answered the question with >>> the main code (GnuPG) in mind. That said, yes it is a bit of duplication. >>> However, the code will not work without it and because some of the code is >>> GPLv3, we cannot modify it to remove the dependency. >>> >>> -Wyllys >>> >> >> I can understand the desire to avoid modifying GnuPG, but if I understand >> this proposal correctly, we'll be rolling in a new threads implementation >> (the "Pth" thing) just to avoid that. Seems unfortunate. >> >> Could we instead be a little more creative and come up with some sort of >> Pth-compatible "shim" library built on top of Solaris threads? >> (Sorry, I admit I know nothing of Pth or how hard this might be.) >> >> There are lots of benefits to using real Solaris threads, such as >> good support for multi-thread debugging, etc. >> >> Gordon >> > > Note that the case was approved yesterday at PSARC as specified. > > I gave the project my +1 on the understanding that GNU Pth is required > for portability reasons, and used by more projects than just this one. > > I would support efforts to either convert this project to native Solaris > threads, or to enhance GNU Pth to "wrap" native threads, but neither > effort is part of this project's proposal, and IMO fall out of scope. > > - Garrett Garrett, My concern when I was reading the case materials is the gross inefficiency that apps built on Solaris using the pth library are going to suffer. We all know that the implementation of POSIX threads on Solaris systems is one of the best (if not THE Best) on any POSIX-, UNIX-, or Linux system in the world. We also know that the Linux threads do not correctly implement POSIX threads. It looks like the pth library is an attempt to provide POSIX semantics at user level on a Linux system. I understand the desire to write portable code to run on Windows, Linux, and UNIX/POSIX systems, and I have no desire to rewrite code that is using the pth library to do that. But I'm guessing that major chunks of the pth library could be replaced by synonym links to Solaris libpthread or Solaris libc routines and skip a lot of unnecessary duplication of effort. I didn't do much digging to see how deep the problem runs, but the GNU man pages for pth_read(), pth_readv(), pth_write(), and pth_writev() just say that these routines provide the semantics required by POSIX for read(), readv(), write(), and writev(). When linking with -lpthread and -lc on Solaris systems you get that directly by calling the system calls with no emulations required. It seems that the project team could improve things considerably by creating a Solaris specific implementation of the pth library to be used by GnuPG with the added benefit of improving any other Gnu application using the pth library when running on Solaris systems. It is a shame that the project team didn't decide to make this part of their project. - Don From gdamore@sun.com Thu Jul 23 21:07:58 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6O47w4Q006008 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6O47vJx051014 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KN900D0BQ58MG00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KN9005HDQ561E40@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:07:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6O47smv000640 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KN900100PYP9X00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KN900LG2Q557SB0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:07:53 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 4430 Don Cragun wrote: > On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:12:56 -0700 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> Gordon Ross wrote: >> >>>> Don Cragun wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> The one-pager for this project says (in section 3.6) that it doesn't >>>>> duplicate core Solaris components. But the description of the Pth >>>>> library provided by this case sure sounds like it is trying to duplicate >>>>> the behavior of the Solaris pthread library and major chunks of basic >>>>> libc functions like read[v] and write[v]. >>>>> >>>>> Why shouldn't this be considered a duplication of the core Solaris POSIX >>>>> threads features even though it adds a "pth_" to the front of a bunch of >>>>> standard function names? >>>>> >>>>> - Don >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The Pth library is a secondary dependency, so I answered the question with >>>> the main code (GnuPG) in mind. That said, yes it is a bit of duplication. >>>> However, the code will not work without it and because some of the code is >>>> GPLv3, we cannot modify it to remove the dependency. >>>> >>>> -Wyllys >>>> >>>> >>> I can understand the desire to avoid modifying GnuPG, but if I understand >>> this proposal correctly, we'll be rolling in a new threads implementation >>> (the "Pth" thing) just to avoid that. Seems unfortunate. >>> >>> Could we instead be a little more creative and come up with some sort of >>> Pth-compatible "shim" library built on top of Solaris threads? >>> (Sorry, I admit I know nothing of Pth or how hard this might be.) >>> >>> There are lots of benefits to using real Solaris threads, such as >>> good support for multi-thread debugging, etc. >>> >>> Gordon >>> >>> >> Note that the case was approved yesterday at PSARC as specified. >> >> I gave the project my +1 on the understanding that GNU Pth is required >> for portability reasons, and used by more projects than just this one. >> >> I would support efforts to either convert this project to native Solaris >> threads, or to enhance GNU Pth to "wrap" native threads, but neither >> effort is part of this project's proposal, and IMO fall out of scope. >> >> - Garrett >> > > Garrett, > My concern when I was reading the case materials is the gross > inefficiency that apps built on Solaris using the pth library are going > to suffer. We all know that the implementation of POSIX threads on > Solaris systems is one of the best (if not THE Best) on any POSIX-, > UNIX-, or Linux system in the world. We also know that the Linux > threads do not correctly implement POSIX threads. It looks like the pth > library is an attempt to provide POSIX semantics at user level on a > Linux system. > > I understand the desire to write portable code to run on Windows, Linux, > and UNIX/POSIX systems, and I have no desire to rewrite code that is > using the pth library to do that. But I'm guessing that major chunks of > the pth library could be replaced by synonym links to Solaris libpthread > or Solaris libc routines and skip a lot of unnecessary duplication of > effort. I didn't do much digging to see how deep the problem runs, but > the GNU man pages for pth_read(), pth_readv(), pth_write(), and > pth_writev() just say that these routines provide the semantics required > by POSIX for read(), readv(), write(), and writev(). When linking with > -lpthread and -lc on Solaris systems you get that directly by calling > the system calls with no emulations required. > > It seems that the project team could improve things considerably by > creating a Solaris specific implementation of the pth library to be used > by GnuPG with the added benefit of improving any other Gnu application > using the pth library when running on Solaris systems. > > It is a shame that the project team didn't decide to make this part of > their project. > I agree with all of your points. However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases that FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same steps that we would require of software developed internally. What this says about the level of quality you might or might not be able to expect for the individual pieces of software is left for the reader to judge. That said, I *hope* someone will go back and make a point of fixing GNU Pth to work well on Solaris if it doesn't already, making use of our native threads as much as possible. But, again, not *this* project. - Garrett From gdamore@sun.com Fri Jul 24 01:49:22 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6O8nLfu014028 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6O8nG3M008979 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:49:20 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNA00N053684B00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNA00HYO367AFD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6O8nJOl009920 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNA00M002UQME00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNA00986367L260@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:49:19 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Don Cragun Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A69758F.5000903@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1470 I have one more thing to say on this case, which is that I apologize. I've been thinking about the meeting this week (and a message from another participant triggered this consideration), and the conversations that have taken place here, and I have realized that I may have failed in my duty as PSARC chair to separate my personal opinion on the case's completeness/readiness, from the obligatory objective evaluation of whether or not the case had converged. (I.e. in my mind the issues raised had been satisfied, but looking back I'm not sure I gave opportunity for other participants to reach the same conclusion.) What possibly should have occurred, is that I should have realized that there was still active discussion on this topic, and declared the case not-converged yet and either let it run or asked for more time. If anyone has been offended or otherwise upset by this, then I sincerely apologize. I promise to try to be more cognizant of the necessity of separating these two things (my subjective opinions on the issues at hand, versus an objective judgment of case convergence) in the future. That said, I don't think it is fair to penalize the project team for my error here, and I really do believe that that the case should be closed approved now. Certainly no other members asked for more time at the meeting, so I suspect moving forward is not an unreasonable course of action from this point on. Again, sorry. - Garrett From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Fri Jul 24 10:23:47 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6OHNlIK001959 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6OHNirk000370; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNA0050VQZMBT00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:23:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNA00IH3QZLLR70@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:23:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n6OGoulv005030; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:50:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n6OGou93005029; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:50:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:50:56 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 595 On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > I agree with all of your points. > > However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases that > FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same steps that > we would require of software developed internally. But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is less bad. Why not just require that the i-team at least not deliver Pth compilation links, or, better, statically link Pth into GPG? Nico -- From gdamore@sun.com Fri Jul 24 10:40:43 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6OHehb0002135 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6OHeV7k004646 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:40:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNA00A0JRRSU600@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNA00C1RRRRIVC0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6OHedTI021168 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNA00J00RJVIX00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNA00L60RRP8F10@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:40:37 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Nicolas Williams Cc: Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A69F215.5060209@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1027 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> I agree with all of your points. >> >> However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases that >> FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same steps that >> we would require of software developed internally. >> > > But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system > for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is > less bad. Why not just require that the i-team at least not deliver Pth > compilation links, or, better, statically link Pth into GPG? > Does GNU Pth replace -lpthread? If so then there is a serious problem and I'd have to suggest reopening the case. I was under the impression that it did not interfere with applications that correctly link against normal POSIX pthreads. Reading the manuals, it doesn't look like Pth will interfere with applications which make correct use of POSIX threads. - Garrett > Nico > From Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com Fri Jul 24 11:08:35 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6OI8YLE003062 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6OI8QXw021708 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:08:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNA0010DT289N00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNA00LRAT270Y40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6OI8VxX017982 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:08:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNA00700SW05600@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:08:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (pool-173-72-133-94.clppva.fios.verizon.net [173.72.133.94]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNA005M1T26DD90@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:08:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:08:30 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A69F215.5060209@sun.com> Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Nicolas Williams , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A69F89E.4030804@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A69F215.5060209@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 1214 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> >>> I agree with all of your points. >>> >>> However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases >>> that FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same >>> steps that we would require of software developed internally. >>> >> >> But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system >> for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is >> less bad. Why not just require that the i-team at least not deliver Pth >> compilation links, or, better, statically link Pth into GPG? >> > Does GNU Pth replace -lpthread? If so then there is a serious problem > and I'd have to suggest reopening the case. I was under the impression > that it did not interfere with applications that correctly link against > normal POSIX pthreads. absolutely not. It does not replace -lpthread. > > Reading the manuals, it doesn't look like Pth will interfere with > applications which make correct use of POSIX threads. correct. Pth is a standalone implementation, it does not interfere with anything else on the system. -Wyllys From Scott.Rotondo@sun.com Fri Jul 24 17:43:03 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6P0h3VL020409 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6P0h288014062 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNB00313BBQPG00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNB00F5XBBQS3A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6P0h1i1013989 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:43:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNB00700B0OGY00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.146.108.62] ([unknown] [129.146.108.62]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNB008FFBBPWI00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:42:08 -0700 From: Scott Rotondo Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> Sender: Scott.Rotondo@sun.com To: Nicolas Williams Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 1153 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> I agree with all of your points. >> >> However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases that >> FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same steps that >> we would require of software developed internally. > > But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system > for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is > less bad. Why not just require that the i-team at least not deliver Pth > compilation links, or, better, statically link Pth into GPG? > In an ideal world, Solaris would include a Pth library (in order to link and run programs that expect it) that is written to run efficiently on Solaris (by being a very thin wrapper around libpthread). As a bare minimum, could the project team at least file an RFE documenting the desire to replace the Pth library with a smaller, more efficient implementation? Scott -- Scott Rotondo Principal Engineer, Solaris Security Technologies President, Trusted Computing Group Phone/FAX: +1 408 850 3655 (Internal x68278) From gdamore@sun.com Fri Jul 24 23:09:13 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6P69CUl028715 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6P68ruW022302 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:09:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNB0010CQF54D00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNB00FV3QF5RM10@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6P695Wj011555 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNB00100QAWM000@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNB00DU1QF45G30@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:09:04 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Scott Rotondo Cc: Nicolas Williams , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A6AA180.7040006@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1329 Scott Rotondo wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> I agree with all of your points. >>> >>> However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases >>> that FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same >>> steps that we would require of software developed internally. >> >> But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system >> for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is >> less bad. Why not just require that the i-team at least not deliver Pth >> compilation links, or, better, statically link Pth into GPG? >> > > In an ideal world, Solaris would include a Pth library (in order to > link and run programs that expect it) that is written to run > efficiently on Solaris (by being a very thin wrapper around libpthread). > > As a bare minimum, could the project team at least file an RFE > documenting the desire to replace the Pth library with a smaller, more > efficient implementation? I don't think this is a good idea... see Joerg's and my mail -- applications developed for Pth might rely on the specific implementation details that replacing it with actual pthreads (even under the covers) might expose problems with applications. - Garrett > > Scott > From Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com Sat Jul 25 03:08:23 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6PA8Ls0005067 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6PA8Jo7003869 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:08:20 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNC001011HWHG00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNC00FAG1HVRMA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6P9tN0t001032 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:08:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.11] [160.41.221.11]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-933395 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:06:19 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay42i.sun.com (relay42i.sun.com [192.5.209.72]) by mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-18642912 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:06:15 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay03-haj2.antispameurope.com ([83.246.65.53] [83.246.65.53]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-20381226 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:06:15 +0000 (Z) Received: by relay03-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA, from userid 1000) id 6AB7963C092; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:06:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by relay03-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA) with ESMTP id 46B0D63C092; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:06:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr.fokus.fraunhofer.de [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n6PA6Dg2024932; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:06:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:06:13 +0200 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:06:02 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> Sender: Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com To: Scott.Rotondo@sun.com, Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, dcragun@sonic.net Message-id: <4a6ad90a.W3A2mzIN7RlA4G7w%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 3.099sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2009 10:06:13.0479 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A9E6F70:01CA0D0F] Status: RO Content-Length: 723 Scott Rotondo wrote: > In an ideal world, Solaris would include a Pth library (in order to link > and run programs that expect it) that is written to run efficiently on > Solaris (by being a very thin wrapper around libpthread). And this will carry a high rist of breaking te programs that use thus lib. Note that the programs that use Pth may not be MT safe and fail in case of real concurrency. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Gordon.Ross@Sun.COM Sat Jul 25 06:45:19 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6PDjIF8009985 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6PDjI0t023754 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNC00G01BJII400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNC004A6BJHL240@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6PDjHOD024207 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:45:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNC00B00BDCHN00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gwr-pbook1.local (c-75-67-12-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [75.67.12.95]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNC00H4NBJG3D90@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:45:15 -0400 From: Gordon Ross Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4a6ad90a.W3A2mzIN7RlA4G7w%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: Gordon.Ross@Sun.COM To: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Cc: PSARC-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <23D9E0E8-92D3-40C0-9F9F-50723680ABB2@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> <4a6ad90a.W3A2mzIN7RlA4G7w%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Status: RO Content-Length: 782 On Jul 25, 2009, at 6:06 AM, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Scott Rotondo wrote: > >> In an ideal world, Solaris would include a Pth library (in order to >> link >> and run programs that expect it) that is written to run efficiently >> on >> Solaris (by being a very thin wrapper around libpthread). > > And this will carry a high rist of breaking te programs that use > thus lib. > > Note that the programs that use Pth may not be MT safe and fail in > case of > real concurrency. A replacement Pth would not necessarily have to inflict real concurrency on the applications that link with it. Whether or not it did that would be just one more piece of a complete Pth API spec. Anyway, whatever. I think we're "beating a dead horse" here. Gordon From Wyllys.Ingersoll@Sun.COM Sat Jul 25 13:28:36 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6PKSaBw020876 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6PKSagS011741 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:28:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNC00401U7NTL00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNC00CAIU7NBFE0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6PKSZpF002941 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:28:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNC00H00TZSS400@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (pool-173-72-133-94.clppva.fios.verizon.net [173.72.133.94]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNC00E3DU7MBI00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:28:29 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@Sun.COM To: Scott Rotondo Cc: Nicolas Williams , Gordon.Ross@Sun.COM, PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Don Cragun , "Garrett D'Amore" Message-id: <4A6B6AED.10606@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 1327 Scott Rotondo wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> I agree with all of your points. >>> >>> However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases >>> that FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same >>> steps that we would require of software developed internally. >> >> But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system >> for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is >> less bad. Why not just require that the i-team at least not deliver Pth >> compilation links, or, better, statically link Pth into GPG? >> > > In an ideal world, Solaris would include a Pth library (in order to link > and run programs that expect it) that is written to run efficiently on > Solaris (by being a very thin wrapper around libpthread). > > As a bare minimum, could the project team at least file an RFE > documenting the desire to replace the Pth library with a smaller, more > efficient implementation? > > Scott > Wouldn't the logical replacement for Pth be libpthread or Solaris threads? Why bother even attempting to write a new thread library when we have viable alternatives? The goal should be to eliminate the need for Pth in the programs that use it if possible. -Wyllys From Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com Sat Jul 25 14:16:35 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6PLGXCC021501 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6PLGWBG009930 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNC00205WFKZW00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNC004BHWFKL0F0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6PLDMXU015523 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:16:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.230] [160.41.221.230]) by relay44i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-434477 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:16:26 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay43i.sun.com (relay43i.sun.com [192.5.209.74]) by mms48es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-17126192 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:16:23 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay04-haj2.antispameurope.com ([83.246.65.54] [83.246.65.54]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-16407734 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:16:22 +0000 (Z) Received: by relay04-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA, from userid 1000) id D95F65EC0F3; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:16:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by relay04-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA) with ESMTP id 59B425EC0EE; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:16:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr.fokus.fraunhofer.de [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n6PLGLtP001217; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:16:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:16:21 +0200 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:16:08 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6B6AED.10606@sun.com> Sender: Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com To: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com, Scott.Rotondo@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com, gdamore@sun.com, dcragun@sonic.net Message-id: <4a6b7618.crrHacXRqh4nviWV%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 3.464sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> <4A6B6AED.10606@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2009 21:16:21.0236 (UTC) FILETIME=[284F4340:01CA0D6D] Status: RO Content-Length: 845 Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > Wouldn't the logical replacement for Pth be libpthread or Solaris threads? > Why bother even attempting to write a new thread library when we have > viable alternatives? The goal should be to eliminate the need for Pth > in the programs that use it if possible. Please read the other mails from this thread. The Pth library does not implement cuncurrency, so it cannot be replaced by libpthread without running the risk of causing problems in the software that was implemented to call Pth. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From gdamore@sun.com Sat Jul 25 14:58:03 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6PLw3h4021938 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6PLw2Xs022652 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:58:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNC00E03YCOW100@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNC00EWVYCMF700@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6PLvwQI010123 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNC00300YBYQ500@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNC002M5YCIK5B0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:57:53 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4a6b7618.crrHacXRqh4nviWV%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Joerg Schilling Cc: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com, Scott.Rotondo@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com, dcragun@sonic.net Message-id: <4A6B7FE1.9070007@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> <4A6B6AED.10606@sun.com> <4a6b7618.crrHacXRqh4nviWV%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 912 Joerg Schilling wrote: > Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > > >> Wouldn't the logical replacement for Pth be libpthread or Solaris threads? >> Why bother even attempting to write a new thread library when we have >> viable alternatives? The goal should be to eliminate the need for Pth >> in the programs that use it if possible. >> > > Please read the other mails from this thread. The Pth library does not implement > cuncurrency, so it cannot be replaced by libpthread without running the risk of > causing problems in the software that was implemented to call Pth. > I think you and Wyllys are in violent agreement. :-) The original program has to be modified to use pthreads, rather than trying to hide this underneath a Pth wrapper. That means that you recompile the program, and possibly have to modify the source if it is not truly concurrent safe. - Garrett From Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com Sat Jul 25 15:42:19 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6PMgHGK022191 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6PMgB8Y002370 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 06:42:16 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KND00J010EERG00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KND00E9Y0EDF7A0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6PMe32v024880 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:42:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.11] [160.41.221.11]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-957123 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:42:13 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-19568591 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:42:09 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay04-haj2.antispameurope.com ([83.246.65.54] [83.246.65.54]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-21057589 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:42:08 +0000 (Z) Received: by relay04-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA, from userid 1000) id 4D5F35EC0BD; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:42:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de [195.37.77.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by relay04-haj2.antispameurope.com (ASE-Secure-MTA) with ESMTP id C7CC85EC0B6; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:42:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr.fokus.fraunhofer.de [10.147.9.231]) by pluto.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n6PMg7ps002307; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:42:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from rigel ([10.147.65.195]) by EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:42:07 +0200 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:41:55 +0200 From: Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6B7FE1.9070007@sun.com> Sender: Joerg.Schilling9ab33xy531fokus.fraunhofer.de@bounce.antispameurope.com To: gdamore@sun.com Cc: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com, Scott.Rotondo@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com, dcragun@sonic.net Message-id: <4a6b8a33.e22zRoaJ+3wIGuJ4%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 3.424sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> <4A6B6AED.10606@sun.com> <4a6b7618.crrHacXRqh4nviWV%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <4A6B7FE1.9070007@sun.com> User-Agent: nail 11.22 3/20/05 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2009 22:42:07.0305 (UTC) FILETIME=[239B1390:01CA0D79] Status: RO Content-Length: 1672 "Garrett D'Amore" wrote: > I think you and Wyllys are in violent agreement. :-) The original > program has to be modified to use pthreads, rather than trying to hide > this underneath a Pth wrapper. That means that you recompile the > program, and possibly have to modify the source if it is not truly > concurrent safe. OK, I understand. I am a very defensive programmer ;-) I know that is is not simple to find this kind of problems by just looking at the source, it if appears to work. Let me give an example: Around 1988, I aded a "FIFO" to star based on shared memory. This code did run fine for everybody for a really long time, even though there have been multi-CPU Sparc systems since around 1992. A few weeks after I started to use my first Dual Opteron system at home (in December 2005), star did expose hangs after creating archives > 1 GB. This turned out to be a result of using non-atomic instructions for synchronizing both processes that access the shared memory. In 1988, I was just not aware of the problems caused by real concurrency. Two weeks after I fixed the problem, I received lots of mails from other people that mentioned the same problem.... So even if you do not find any problem today, it may fail a few weeks later. This is why would be very careful with introducing real concurrency in a Pth replacement. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Scott.Rotondo@Sun.COM Sun Jul 26 21:47:09 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6R4l9s8007698 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6R4l8Ju006561 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNF00501BYKJ900@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNF0048KBYISJ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6R4l6uq021015 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:47:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNF00E00BQ4FZ00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from viaggio.local ([unknown] [69.226.231.187]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNF00952BYH1EF0@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:47:15 -0700 From: Scott Rotondo Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4a6b7618.crrHacXRqh4nviWV%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sender: Scott.Rotondo@Sun.COM To: Joerg Schilling Cc: Wyllys.Ingersoll@Sun.COM, PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, Gordon.Ross@Sun.COM, gdamore@Sun.COM, dcragun@sonic.net Message-id: <4A6D3153.4030102@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6A54E0.5000703@sun.com> <4A6B6AED.10606@sun.com> <4a6b7618.crrHacXRqh4nviWV%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Macintosh/20090605) Status: RO Content-Length: 1439 Joerg Schilling wrote: > Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > >> Wouldn't the logical replacement for Pth be libpthread or Solaris threads? >> Why bother even attempting to write a new thread library when we have >> viable alternatives? The goal should be to eliminate the need for Pth >> in the programs that use it if possible. > > Please read the other mails from this thread. The Pth library does not implement > cuncurrency, so it cannot be replaced by libpthread without running the risk of > causing problems in the software that was implemented to call Pth. > Before this PSARC case I knew nothing about GNU Pth. I made what I thought were reasonable assumptions about the semantics of this library, but after comments like the one above (and a little online research), I agree that it could be unsafe to implement it as a libpthread wrapper. Never mind. To answer Wyllys's question, the rationale for providing a Pth implementation (including a more efficient one if it were safe to do so) would be to provide it for other programs to link against. Providing the expected set of system libraries is arguably the most important form of "Linux familiarity." That motivation notwithstanding, modifying GnuPG to use libpthread is a fine idea. Scott -- Scott Rotondo Principal Engineer, Solaris Security Technologies President, Trusted Computing Group Phone/FAX: +1 408 850 3655 (Internal x68278) From Darren.Moffat@SUN.COM Mon Jul 27 06:00:51 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6RD0o9s025304 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6RD0ihP013700 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:00:49 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNF00B11YTBUC00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNF00JN8YTA4490@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6RD0jDn012709 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:00:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNF00C00XZFHY00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:00:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.156.173.199] ([unknown] [129.156.173.199]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNF002F6YSA5R50@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:00:10 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:00:10 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> Sender: Darren.Moffat@SUN.COM To: Nicolas Williams Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@SUN.COM, Gordon.Ross@SUN.COM Message-id: <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20090127) Status: RO Content-Length: 996 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> I agree with all of your points. >> >> However, we've already established a precedent in many other cases that >> FOSS cases can integrate without necessarily taking the same steps that >> we would require of software developed internally. > > But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system > for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is Why is that bad if that is what that upstream FOSS needs ? > less bad. Why not just require that the i-team at least not deliver Pth > compilation links, or, better, statically link Pth into GPG? This is no worse then having NSPR or the Apache run time libraries. The unfortunate state of the world is that POSIX wasn't enough and other alternate portable to many platform runtimes exist. We have to embrace that in OpenSolaris otherwise we won't get to run apps that need them. -- Darren J Moffat From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Mon Jul 27 11:06:36 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6RI6Zmb006952 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6RI6OIA017565; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:06:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNG00001CYUT200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNG003Z9CYUYQD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n6RHXZZp006787; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:33:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n6RHXXev006786; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:33:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:33:33 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <20090727173333.GZ1020@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 3323 On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 02:00:10PM +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: > >But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system > >for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is > > Why is that bad if that is what that upstream FOSS needs ? It's only bad if on Solaris GNU Pth performs badly or provides different semantics than on other platforms, or if it interacts badly with Solaris threads. At the very least any team trying to integrate GNU Pth into Solaris, compilation links and all, ought to research the matter and document any such shortcomings. Preferably they should also have to fix such shortcomings, if there are any. I've no objection to GNU Pth itself, unless its API is fundamentally in conflict with Solaris threads. To save us a few e-mail round-trips I looked at GNU Pth just now and I have the following observations: - GNU Pth includes a pthread_* implementation. It would be bad for these symbols to conflict with libc's -- the very least that must be done before we deliver libpth.so is make sure that not such conflict arises. The best solution to that problem would be to deliver only a GNU Pth static link archive, not a DSO. - The build system only mentions Solaris 9, not 10, much less OpenSolaris. And the ChangeLog says that --disable-shared is the default on Solaris because Pth segfaults when built as a DSO on x86. The ChangeLog speculates that the segfault is a linker issue, but it may well be a matter of conflicts with libc (or, rather, libpthread, before S10). See previous note. - GNU Pth "uses a M:1 mapping to kernel-space threads, i.e., the scheduling is done completely by the GNU Pth library and the kernel itself is not aware of the M threads in user-space", according to wikipedia. Given this I don't think we should worry about GNU Pth performing worse on Solaris than on other operating systems. Adding concurrency is likely to break some apps, so a replacement for Pth based on POSIX/Solaris APIs should not be taken lightly, but if one were to try, the notes below might be useful. This convinces me that we should deliver GNU Pth with changes only to avoid symbol conflicts with libc. - The pth_* API can be implemented in terms of POSIX straightforwardly, except, _perhaps_, for pth_ctrl(), which deals explicitly with scheduler concepts -- a POSIX-based implementation might have to fake: - PTH_CTRL_GETTHREADS -- should this count non-pth threads? - PTH_CTRL_GETTHREADS_*, PTH_CTRL_GETAVLOAD, PTH_CTRL_FAVOURNEW -- these can't really be implemented in terms of POSIX without additional kernel APIs, I think (but I could be wrong). - PTH_CTRL_GETNAME -- no concept of thread names in POSIX, may need to add a name attribute. - Some Pth thread attributes have no POSIX equivalent (e.g., thread name, time spawned, ...). - Pth event handling can be implemented in terms of POSIX or Solaris APIs such as event ports. Should be straightforward, but not a trivial one-liner for every Pth event function. - Most Pth functions could be implemented as trivial one-or-three- liners that call POSIX and/or Solaris equivalents. Cheers, Nico -- From Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com Mon Jul 27 12:46:00 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6RJjxCN013221 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6RJjuU4003408 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:45:58 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNG00J0ZHKLRC00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNG0010ZHKJTWA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6RJjtvS019772 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:45:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNG00H00G2ZFJ00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (pool-173-72-133-94.clppva.fios.verizon.net [173.72.133.94]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNG006RXHK7IDC0@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:45:43 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <20090727173333.GZ1020@Sun.COM> Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com To: Nicolas Williams Cc: Darren J Moffat , "Garrett D'Amore" , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A6E03E7.4020009@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> <20090727173333.GZ1020@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 3921 I think this whole Pth thread (no pun intended) is pretty much beaten to death. GnuPG will deliver Pth as it stands, we are not modifying it to be a Solaris thread wrapper and we are not modifying GnuPG to use Solaris threads. If someone wants to file an RFE and take on that work themselves later, then so be it, but it is not a priority and I don't see any risk or danger in putting it back in it's current state. -Wyllys Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 02:00:10PM +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote: >> Nicolas Williams wrote: >>> But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system >>> for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is >> Why is that bad if that is what that upstream FOSS needs ? > > It's only bad if on Solaris GNU Pth performs badly or provides different > semantics than on other platforms, or if it interacts badly with Solaris > threads. > > At the very least any team trying to integrate GNU Pth into Solaris, > compilation links and all, ought to research the matter and document any > such shortcomings. Preferably they should also have to fix such > shortcomings, if there are any. > > I've no objection to GNU Pth itself, unless its API is fundamentally in > conflict with Solaris threads. > > To save us a few e-mail round-trips I looked at GNU Pth just now and I > have the following observations: > > - GNU Pth includes a pthread_* implementation. It would be bad for > these symbols to conflict with libc's -- the very least that must be > done before we deliver libpth.so is make sure that not such conflict > arises. > > The best solution to that problem would be to deliver only a GNU Pth > static link archive, not a DSO. > > - The build system only mentions Solaris 9, not 10, much less > OpenSolaris. And the ChangeLog says that --disable-shared is the > default on Solaris because Pth segfaults when built as a DSO on x86. > > The ChangeLog speculates that the segfault is a linker issue, but it > may well be a matter of conflicts with libc (or, rather, libpthread, > before S10). See previous note. > > - GNU Pth "uses a M:1 mapping to kernel-space threads, i.e., the > scheduling is done completely by the GNU Pth library and the kernel > itself is not aware of the M threads in user-space", according to > wikipedia. Given this I don't think we should worry about GNU Pth > performing worse on Solaris than on other operating systems. > > Adding concurrency is likely to break some apps, so a replacement for > Pth based on POSIX/Solaris APIs should not be taken lightly, but if > one were to try, the notes below might be useful. This convinces me > that we should deliver GNU Pth with changes only to avoid symbol > conflicts with libc. > > - The pth_* API can be implemented in terms of POSIX > straightforwardly, except, _perhaps_, for pth_ctrl(), which deals > explicitly with scheduler concepts -- a POSIX-based implementation > might have to fake: > > - PTH_CTRL_GETTHREADS -- should this count non-pth threads? > - PTH_CTRL_GETTHREADS_*, PTH_CTRL_GETAVLOAD, PTH_CTRL_FAVOURNEW > -- these can't really be implemented in terms of POSIX without > additional kernel APIs, I think (but I could be wrong). > - PTH_CTRL_GETNAME -- no concept of thread names in POSIX, may > need to add a name attribute. > > - Some Pth thread attributes have no POSIX equivalent (e.g., thread > name, time spawned, ...). > > - Pth event handling can be implemented in terms of POSIX or Solaris > APIs such as event ports. Should be straightforward, but not a > trivial one-liner for every Pth event function. > > - Most Pth functions could be implemented as trivial one-or-three- > liners that call POSIX and/or Solaris equivalents. > > Cheers, > > Nico From gdamore@sun.com Mon Jul 27 12:53:05 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6RJr5nc013318 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6RJqvtq023568 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:53:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNG00K0ZHWEOE00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNG00DV2HWDFB60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6RJr1uc017434 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNG00200HUUU700@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNG00MVBHW76E90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:52:55 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6E03E7.4020009@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: Nicolas Williams , Darren J Moffat , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <4A6E0597.8030303@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> <20090727173333.GZ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6E03E7.4020009@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 4682 Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > I think this whole Pth thread (no pun intended) is pretty much beaten to death. > > GnuPG will deliver Pth as it stands, we are not modifying it to be a Solaris > thread wrapper and we are not modifying GnuPG to use Solaris threads. If someone wants > to file an RFE and take on that work themselves later, then so be it, but it is > not a priority and I don't see any risk or danger in putting it back in it's > current state. > Yes, please end this conversation. The case is long since closed, and further conversations here are not fruitful. Interested parties can either open a new case (if sufficient material is present to justify one), or engage in off-line communication. As a minor aside, one of the things we should look at in whatever new tools infrastructure we examine will be a way to either "close" a case, or put it in "moderation mode", to further posting once the current PSARC chair(s) decide(s) that the conversations have either drifted too far afield or are no longer useful. - Garrett > > -Wyllys > > > > > Nicolas Williams wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 02:00:10PM +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote: >> >>> Nicolas Williams wrote: >>> >>>> But surely there are limits. Having the GNU Pth library on the system >>>> for other apps to link with is bad. Using the GNU Pth library in GPG is >>>> >>> Why is that bad if that is what that upstream FOSS needs ? >>> >> It's only bad if on Solaris GNU Pth performs badly or provides different >> semantics than on other platforms, or if it interacts badly with Solaris >> threads. >> >> At the very least any team trying to integrate GNU Pth into Solaris, >> compilation links and all, ought to research the matter and document any >> such shortcomings. Preferably they should also have to fix such >> shortcomings, if there are any. >> >> I've no objection to GNU Pth itself, unless its API is fundamentally in >> conflict with Solaris threads. >> >> To save us a few e-mail round-trips I looked at GNU Pth just now and I >> have the following observations: >> >> - GNU Pth includes a pthread_* implementation. It would be bad for >> these symbols to conflict with libc's -- the very least that must be >> done before we deliver libpth.so is make sure that not such conflict >> arises. >> >> The best solution to that problem would be to deliver only a GNU Pth >> static link archive, not a DSO. >> >> - The build system only mentions Solaris 9, not 10, much less >> OpenSolaris. And the ChangeLog says that --disable-shared is the >> default on Solaris because Pth segfaults when built as a DSO on x86. >> >> The ChangeLog speculates that the segfault is a linker issue, but it >> may well be a matter of conflicts with libc (or, rather, libpthread, >> before S10). See previous note. >> >> - GNU Pth "uses a M:1 mapping to kernel-space threads, i.e., the >> scheduling is done completely by the GNU Pth library and the kernel >> itself is not aware of the M threads in user-space", according to >> wikipedia. Given this I don't think we should worry about GNU Pth >> performing worse on Solaris than on other operating systems. >> >> Adding concurrency is likely to break some apps, so a replacement for >> Pth based on POSIX/Solaris APIs should not be taken lightly, but if >> one were to try, the notes below might be useful. This convinces me >> that we should deliver GNU Pth with changes only to avoid symbol >> conflicts with libc. >> >> - The pth_* API can be implemented in terms of POSIX >> straightforwardly, except, _perhaps_, for pth_ctrl(), which deals >> explicitly with scheduler concepts -- a POSIX-based implementation >> might have to fake: >> >> - PTH_CTRL_GETTHREADS -- should this count non-pth threads? >> - PTH_CTRL_GETTHREADS_*, PTH_CTRL_GETAVLOAD, PTH_CTRL_FAVOURNEW >> -- these can't really be implemented in terms of POSIX without >> additional kernel APIs, I think (but I could be wrong). >> - PTH_CTRL_GETNAME -- no concept of thread names in POSIX, may >> need to add a name attribute. >> >> - Some Pth thread attributes have no POSIX equivalent (e.g., thread >> name, time spawned, ...). >> >> - Pth event handling can be implemented in terms of POSIX or Solaris >> APIs such as event ports. Should be straightforward, but not a >> trivial one-liner for every Pth event function. >> >> - Most Pth functions could be implemented as trivial one-or-three- >> liners that call POSIX and/or Solaris equivalents. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Nico >> > > From storycrafter@gmail.com Mon Jul 27 13:16:31 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6RKGVCj014488 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6RKGSXK026288; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNG00209IZHOO00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNG001DIIZGU1A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6RJpiAB028030; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:16:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-397944; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:16:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (relay14i.sun.com [129.179.4.124]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-494667; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:16:24 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-bw0-f211.google.com ([209.85.218.211] [209.85.218.211]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-14257307; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:11:42 +0000 (Z) Received: by mail-bw0-f211.google.com with SMTP id 7so2869692bwz.8 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.58.79 with SMTP id f15mr3129188bkh.202.1248725441052; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?172.16.202.89? (68-252-106-20.ded.ameritech.net [68.252.106.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f31sm12116703fkf.38.2009.07.27.13.10.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:10:36 -0500 From: Mark Martin Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6E0597.8030303@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Wyllys Ingersoll , Gordon.Ross@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Don Cragun Message-id: <4A6E09BC.2010506@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nffted7F5nBq6Jnl8D8DsMp9M2mXBTu1O+aKMNzyR98=; b=efg1AxsCiafyt0vEuoxSKGmRzfJt+1XBE+dBx8vlFMgfWMjD751h3zY9QpmnUF+97w FB+6WMhOR9uHck38ardR9rU0WIk/4aYoCr3Ot7c85IIAsaXVqFvs4isP4zX4tUUK/iIp jueSX3YwywxqUnPutcWCRkeg3cnmJRbY2F1Eg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MUTrvtPYNEFJsfuoCM/py9lOKFbFBVb62PwhWxrzdaadE5OhAYwyd/FY/VZRcdgYsv p2IYa48H2o3yaMYOPEUTgHjBhn38BqZnuYuvy86cG4gA7hrNONgPsBDFJBLtNt94jrVX hcv/BNMdGlg+vh4niAQHo7o0inwCo4RArTGNc= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 1.350sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> <20090727173333.GZ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6E03E7.4020009@sun.com> <4A6E0597.8030303@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) Status: RO Content-Length: 1597 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: >> I think this whole Pth thread (no pun intended) is pretty much beaten >> to death. >> >> GnuPG will deliver Pth as it stands, we are not modifying it to be a >> Solaris >> thread wrapper and we are not modifying GnuPG to use Solaris >> threads. If someone wants >> to file an RFE and take on that work themselves later, then so be it, >> but it is >> not a priority and I don't see any risk or danger in putting it back >> in it's current state. > > Yes, please end this conversation. The case is long since closed, and > further conversations here are not fruitful. Interested parties can > either open a new case (if sufficient material is present to justify > one), or engage in off-line communication. > > As a minor aside, one of the things we should look at in whatever new > tools infrastructure we examine will be a way to either "close" a > case, or put it in "moderation mode", to further posting once the > current PSARC chair(s) decide(s) that the conversations have either > drifted too far afield or are no longer useful. For what it is worth, I am appreciative that a few comments have come in after close as they've made some opinions clearer with regards to the kitchen sink problem inherent in this case. I do plan to gather some of that email and paraphrase or quote directly for opinion fodder, which I'd like to attach to this case if prudent. I'd like to present and review an opinion on this in the usual manner, so I hope that further commentary (on the opinion -- not the case) is allowed. From gdamore@sun.com Mon Jul 27 13:21:32 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6RKLVpC014689 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6RKLTnu020678 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:21:30 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNG0030BJ7SN600@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNG001USJ7SU1A0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n6RKLS4H025738 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KNG00G00J40K900@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KNG00IBMJ7KTM70@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:21:20 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6E09BC.2010506@gmail.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Mark Martin Cc: Wyllys Ingersoll , Gordon.Ross@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Don Cragun Message-id: <4A6E0C40.7000402@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> <20090727173333.GZ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6E03E7.4020009@sun.com> <4A6E0597.8030303@sun.com> <4A6E09BC.2010506@gmail.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 1761 Mark Martin wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: >>> I think this whole Pth thread (no pun intended) is pretty much >>> beaten to death. >>> >>> GnuPG will deliver Pth as it stands, we are not modifying it to be a >>> Solaris >>> thread wrapper and we are not modifying GnuPG to use Solaris >>> threads. If someone wants >>> to file an RFE and take on that work themselves later, then so be >>> it, but it is >>> not a priority and I don't see any risk or danger in putting it back >>> in it's current state. >> >> Yes, please end this conversation. The case is long since closed, >> and further conversations here are not fruitful. Interested parties >> can either open a new case (if sufficient material is present to >> justify one), or engage in off-line communication. >> >> As a minor aside, one of the things we should look at in whatever new >> tools infrastructure we examine will be a way to either "close" a >> case, or put it in "moderation mode", to further posting once the >> current PSARC chair(s) decide(s) that the conversations have either >> drifted too far afield or are no longer useful. > > For what it is worth, I am appreciative that a few comments have come > in after close as they've made some opinions clearer with regards to > the kitchen sink problem inherent in this case. I do plan to gather > some of that email and paraphrase or quote directly for opinion > fodder, which I'd like to attach to this case if prudent. > I'd like to present and review an opinion on this in the usual manner, > so I hope that further commentary (on the opinion -- not the case) is > allowed. Okay, although as a fast track that was not derailed, no opinion is strictly necessary. - Garrett From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Mon Jul 27 13:29:09 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n6RKT9oG014944 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n6RKT31g001082; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KNG0000DJKI1400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KNG00DWUJKHF260@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n6RJuDq3007016; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:56:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n6RJuDiT007015; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:56:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:56:13 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: GnuPG and friends [PSARC/2009/397 FastTrack timeout 07/23/2009] In-reply-to: <4A6E03E7.4020009@sun.com> To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: Darren J Moffat , "Garrett D'Amore" , Don Cragun , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Gordon.Ross@sun.com Message-id: <20090727195612.GD1020@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <7313.76.191.129.144.1248407355.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> <4A693399.5060900@sun.com> <20090724165055.GJ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6DA4DA.3070403@Sun.COM> <20090727173333.GZ1020@Sun.COM> <4A6E03E7.4020009@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 205 I spoke to Wyllys off-list and while telling him about my concern with symbol conflicts I realized that the solution is to add -Bdirect to LDFLAGS when configuring Pth. With that, I think we're all done. From Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com Fri Sep 25 12:10:35 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8PJAYgO015957 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8PJAVb4016223 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQJ00J0ZJXJ5200@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQJ00AIIJX66260@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8PJAI5u007901 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:10:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KQJ00E00IK41500@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:10:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (usr178.res.openband.net [216.40.74.178]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KQJ00FLZJWZNG30@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:10:11 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: PSARC 2009/397 GnuPG and Friends - updated deliverables Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com To: PSARC-ext Message-id: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090816) Status: RO Content-Length: 5651 After doing some work on the GnuPG effort, I have a few changes to the originally submitted case. I'm not sure if these need a new review or if just sending them to the alias and making them part of the email archive is sufficient. Hopefully this is sufficient. The overall project has not changed, I'm just clarifying the deliverable list based on progress made with integrating it into a workspace. -Wyllys Ingersoll CHANGES: - There will be just 1 package - SUNWgnupg. It doesn't make much sense to make several different packages, 1 for each library, since they are all needed by GnuPG they should all be delivered together. - libassuan will not be delivered - it is intended to only be built as a static library (according to the README) and is only used by 1 small part of GnuPG so it doesn't need to be delivered. The updated list for section 4 (Exported and Imported Interfaces) is presented here: 4.0 Interfaces (see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/interface-taxonomy/ for details) 4.1 Exported Interfaces Interface Name Classification Comments --------------------------- ------------------- --------------------------- SUNWgnupg Uncommitted Package /usr/bin/gpg Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpg2 Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgv2 Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/kbxutil Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgsm Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpg-agent Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgconf Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpg-connect-agent Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgkey2ssh Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgparsemail Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgsm-gencert.sh Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/watchgnupg Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpg-check-pattern Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgsm-gencert.sh Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/ksba-config Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/pth-config Uncommitted Command /usr/bin/gpgme-config Uncommitted Command /usr/sbin/addgnupghome Uncommitted Command /usr/sbin/applygnupgdefaults Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/scdaemon Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/gpg-protect-tool Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/gpg-preset-passphrase Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/gnupg-pcsc-wrapper Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_ldap Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_hkp Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_finger Uncommitted Command /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_curl Uncommitted Command /usr/lib/libgpgme.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library /usr/lib/libgpgme-pthread.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library /usr/lib/libgpgme-pth.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library /usr/lib/libksba.so.8.9.6 Uncommmitted Shared library /usr/lib/libpth.so.20.0.27 Uncommitted Shared Library /usr/include/gpgme.h 444 root bin Uncommitted Header /usr/include/ksba.h 444 root bin Uncommitted Header /usr/include/pth.h 444 root bin Uncommitted Header /usr/share/man/man1/gpg2.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgsm.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-agent.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-connect-agent.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-zip.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/scdaemon.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgv2.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/watchgnupg.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgconf.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpg-preset-passphrase.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgparsemail.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/symcryptrun.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man1/gpgsm-gencert.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/man/man1/pth-config.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/man/man3/pth.3 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man8/addgnupghome.8 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man8/applygnupgdefaults.8 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/info/gnupg.info Volatile info file /usr/share/info/gnupg.info-1 Volatile info file /usr/share/info/gnupg.info-2 Volatile info file /usr/share/info/gpgme.info Volatile info file /usr/share/info/gpgme.info-1 Volatile info file /usr/share/info/gpgme.info-2 Volatile info file /usr/share/info/ksba.info Volatile info file /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme.asd Volatile lisp packages /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme-package.lisp Volatile lisp packages /usr/share/common-lisp/source/gpgme/gpgme.lisp Volatile lisp packages /usr/share/aclocal/gpgme.m4 Volatile M4 file. /usr/share/aclocal/ksba.m4 Volatile M4 file. /usr/share/aclocal/pth.m4 Volatile M4 file. 4.2 Imported Interfaces Interface Name Classification Comments --------------------------- -------------------- -------------------------- libbz2 Committed SUNWbzip libreadline Uncommitted SUNWgnu-readline libgcrypt Volatile SUNWlibgcrypt libgpg-error Volatile SUNWlibgpg-error libcurl Uncommitted SUNWcurl libssl Volatile SUNWopenssl * contract required libcrypto Volatile SUNWopenssl * contract required libgss Committed SUNWgss libidn Uncommitted SUNWlibidn libusb External SUNWlibusb libresolv Committed libsocket Committed libnsl Committed libdl Committed libz Committed SUNWzlib (PSARC 2006/537) libksba Uncommmited * delivered by this project * libpth Uncommmited * delivered by this project * From Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM Fri Sep 25 21:11:22 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8Q4BMT9002579 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8Q4BMdw023883 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQK00A018YYXV00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQK00JNO8YWMP60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8Q4BKOq009810 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KQK002008KOAW00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.6.102.27] ([unknown] [10.6.102.27]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KQK00HEF8YW7640@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:11:20 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: PSARC 2009/397 GnuPG and Friends - updated deliverables In-reply-to: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: PSARC-ext Message-id: <4ABD9468.3080004@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090720) Status: RO Content-Length: 924 Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > /usr/libexec/scdaemon Uncommitted Command > /usr/libexec/gpg-protect-tool Uncommitted Command > /usr/libexec/gpg-preset-passphrase Uncommitted Command > /usr/libexec/gnupg-pcsc-wrapper Uncommitted Command > /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_ldap Uncommitted Command > /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_hkp Uncommitted Command > /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_finger Uncommitted Command > /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_curl Uncommitted Command There is no libexec on Solaris - those should be in /usr/lib or /usr/lib/gpg. > /usr/share/man/man8/addgnupghome.8 Uncommitted Manpage > /usr/share/man/man8/applygnupgdefaults.8 Uncommitted Manpage Those need to be 1m man pages on Solaris. ("8" is the BSD section for admin commands, but Sys V put them in "1m".) -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com Sat Sep 26 06:57:47 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8QDvlJQ019734 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8QDvk7d009781 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQL00K0304AGT00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQL00CY704393D0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8QDvdV3015186 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:57:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KQK00500ZRGWP00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (usr178.res.openband.net [216.40.74.178]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KQL00BST043EB10@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:57:38 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: Re: PSARC 2009/397 GnuPG and Friends - updated deliverables In-reply-to: <4ABD9468.3080004@sun.com> Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext Message-id: <4ABE1DD2.5080504@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> <4ABD9468.3080004@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090816) Status: RO Content-Length: 943 Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: >> /usr/libexec/scdaemon Uncommitted Command >> /usr/libexec/gpg-protect-tool Uncommitted Command >> /usr/libexec/gpg-preset-passphrase Uncommitted Command >> /usr/libexec/gnupg-pcsc-wrapper Uncommitted Command >> /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_ldap Uncommitted Command >> /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_hkp Uncommitted Command >> /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_finger Uncommitted Command >> /usr/libexec/gpg2keys_curl Uncommitted Command > > There is no libexec on Solaris - those should be in /usr/lib or /usr/lib/gpg. OK. thanks, I will fix the packaging and install scripts. > > >> /usr/share/man/man8/addgnupghome.8 Uncommitted Manpage >> /usr/share/man/man8/applygnupgdefaults.8 Uncommitted Manpage > > Those need to be 1m man pages on Solaris. ("8" is the BSD section for > admin commands, but Sys V put them in "1m".) > OK, noted. -Wyllys From ro@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de Mon Sep 28 05:06:04 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8SC64BJ015815 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8SC62km003312; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQO00709KA3XN00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQO00H6QKA27O80@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8SC2Kog007318; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:06:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.232] [160.41.221.232]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2089853; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:06:01 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com (relay44i.sun.com [192.5.209.118]) by mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-31126216; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:05:19 +0000 (Z) Received: from smarthost.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE ([129.70.137.17] [129.70.137.17]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-8440380; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:05:19 +0000 (Z) Received: from komagatake.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (komagatake.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE [129.70.137.126]) by smarthost.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBC29A; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:05:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ro@localhost) by komagatake.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (8.11.7+Sun/8.9.1) id n8SC5I707062; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:05:18 +0200 (MEST) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:05:17 +0200 From: Rainer Orth Subject: Re: PSARC 2009/397 GnuPG and Friends - updated deliverables In-reply-to: Wyllys Ingersoll's message of "Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:10:11 -0400" Sender: ro@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: PSARC-ext Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.44/Emacs 19.34 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 0.058sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ Lines: 33 References: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 506 Wyllys Ingersoll writes: > CHANGES: > - There will be just 1 package - SUNWgnupg. It doesn't make > much sense to make several different packages, 1 for each > library, since they are all needed by GnuPG they should > all be delivered together. I'm not sure this makes sense: if those libraries are only ever used by GnuPg, ok, but if they have other uses, I'd keep them separate: it doesn't make sense having to install GnuPg only to use an unrelated library. From what I can see, at least pth does have other uses. I haven't checked Status: RO if the others are used outside of GnuPg, though. > 4.1 Exported Interfaces > > Interface Name Classification Comments > --------------------------- ------------------- --------------------------- [...] > /usr/lib/libgpgme.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > /usr/lib/libgpgme-pthread.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > /usr/lib/libgpgme-pth.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > /usr/lib/libksba.so.8.9.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > /usr/lib/libpth.so.20.0.27 Uncommitted Shared Library Would you please state the SONAMEs of those libraries? Rainer -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University From Wyllys.Ingersoll@Sun.COM Mon Sep 28 06:06:21 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8SD6LLZ016625 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8SD6K5A021540 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQO00C0HN2KTX00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQO00FP0N2F1UE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8SD6EuE025412 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:06:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KQO00I00MS6ZU00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (usr178.res.openband.net [216.40.74.178]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KQO00LTDN2DY720@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:06:13 -0400 From: Wyllys Ingersoll Subject: Re: PSARC 2009/397 GnuPG and Friends - updated deliverables In-reply-to: Sender: Wyllys.Ingersoll@Sun.COM To: Rainer Orth Cc: PSARC-ext Message-id: <4AC0B4C5.2020607@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090816) Status: RO Content-Length: 1644 Rainer Orth wrote: > Wyllys Ingersoll writes: > >> CHANGES: >> - There will be just 1 package - SUNWgnupg. It doesn't make >> much sense to make several different packages, 1 for each >> library, since they are all needed by GnuPG they should >> all be delivered together. > > I'm not sure this makes sense: if those libraries are only ever used by > GnuPg, ok, but if they have other uses, I'd keep them separate: it doesn't > make sense having to install GnuPg only to use an unrelated library. > > From what I can see, at least pth does have other uses. I haven't checked > if the others are used outside of GnuPg, though. None of them are needed by anything outside of GnuPG at this time. Pth *could* be used by another application, but I think the preference from the ARC (based on earlier conversations on this case) would be to prefer the local Solaris thread libraries over pth anyway. > >> 4.1 Exported Interfaces >> >> Interface Name Classification Comments >> --------------------------- ------------------- --------------------------- > [...] >> /usr/lib/libgpgme.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >> /usr/lib/libgpgme-pthread.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >> /usr/lib/libgpgme-pth.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >> /usr/lib/libksba.so.8.9.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >> /usr/lib/libpth.so.20.0.27 Uncommitted Shared Library > > Would you please state the SONAMEs of those libraries? Here are the SONAMEs: libgpgme.so.11 libgpgme-pthread.so.11 libgpgme-pth.so.11 libksba.so.8 libpth.so.20 -Wyllys From ro@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de Mon Sep 28 06:54:51 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8SDsoEF017427 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8SDsh8D004474; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:54:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQO0091BPBCGE00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQO00MYNPBBTX80@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (ip123.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.123]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8SDkJoE019730; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:54:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay13i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2796224; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:54:47 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (relay11i.sun.com [129.179.4.121]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-520759; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:54:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from smarthost.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE ([129.70.137.17] [129.70.137.17]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-8773918; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:54:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from komagatake.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (komagatake.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE [129.70.137.126]) by smarthost.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Postfix) with ESMTP id E845DAA; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:54:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ro@localhost) by komagatake.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (8.11.7+Sun/8.9.1) id n8SDsjH11627; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:54:45 +0200 (MEST) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:54:43 +0200 (MEST) From: Rainer Orth Subject: Re: PSARC 2009/397 GnuPG and Friends - updated deliverables In-reply-to: <4AC0B4C5.2020607@sun.com> To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: PSARC-ext Message-id: <19136.49187.665552.272231@komagatake.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 19.34.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> <4AC0B4C5.2020607@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 2187 Wyllys Ingersoll writes: > Rainer Orth wrote: > > Wyllys Ingersoll writes: > > > >> CHANGES: > >> - There will be just 1 package - SUNWgnupg. It doesn't make > >> much sense to make several different packages, 1 for each > >> library, since they are all needed by GnuPG they should > >> all be delivered together. > > > > I'm not sure this makes sense: if those libraries are only ever used by > > GnuPg, ok, but if they have other uses, I'd keep them separate: it doesn't > > make sense having to install GnuPg only to use an unrelated library. > > > > From what I can see, at least pth does have other uses. I haven't checked > > if the others are used outside of GnuPg, though. > > > None of them are needed by anything outside of GnuPG at this time. This is not about use inside Solaris, but use by customers for external programs. > Pth *could* be used by another application, but I think the preference > from the ARC (based on earlier conversations on this case) > would be to prefer the local Solaris thread libraries over pth anyway. Right, but as for GnuPg, there may be cases where portability concerns may dictate otherwise. It seems strange to tell some programmer `you must install GnuPg if you want to use pth for your project'. > >> 4.1 Exported Interfaces > >> > >> Interface Name Classification Comments > >> --------------------------- ------------------- --------------------------- > > [...] > >> /usr/lib/libgpgme.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > >> /usr/lib/libgpgme-pthread.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > >> /usr/lib/libgpgme-pth.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > >> /usr/lib/libksba.so.8.9.6 Uncommmitted Shared library > >> /usr/lib/libpth.so.20.0.27 Uncommitted Shared Library > > > > Would you please state the SONAMEs of those libraries? > > Here are the SONAMEs: > > libgpgme.so.11 > libgpgme-pthread.so.11 > libgpgme-pth.so.11 > libksba.so.8 > libpth.so.20 Fine, thanks. Rainer ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University From gdamore@sun.com Mon Sep 28 10:23:59 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8SHNwws021986 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8SHNufC034984 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQO00607YZXU800@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQO00M1GYZW9G60@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8SHNuZ7024875 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KQO00K00YENG700@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KQO00AZEYZ18ZE0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:23:25 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC 2009/397 GnuPG and Friends - updated deliverables In-reply-to: <4AC0B4C5.2020607@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Wyllys Ingersoll Cc: Rainer Orth , PSARC-ext Message-id: <4AC0F10D.9020807@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4ABD1593.4050000@sun.com> <4AC0B4C5.2020607@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 2084 Wyllys Ingersoll wrote: > Rainer Orth wrote: > >> Wyllys Ingersoll writes: >> >> >>> CHANGES: >>> - There will be just 1 package - SUNWgnupg. It doesn't make >>> much sense to make several different packages, 1 for each >>> library, since they are all needed by GnuPG they should >>> all be delivered together. >>> >> I'm not sure this makes sense: if those libraries are only ever used by >> GnuPg, ok, but if they have other uses, I'd keep them separate: it doesn't >> make sense having to install GnuPg only to use an unrelated library. >> >> From what I can see, at least pth does have other uses. I haven't checked >> if the others are used outside of GnuPg, though. >> > > > None of them are needed by anything outside of GnuPG at this time. > > Pth *could* be used by another application, but I think the preference > from the ARC (based on earlier conversations on this case) > would be to prefer the local Solaris thread libraries over pth anyway. > If its not truly intrinsic to GnuPG, and if you're leaving the library in a common shared library directory, then I think you should use a separate package. Documentation should encourage users to avoid Pth and use native pthreads instead, when possible, of course. - Garrett > > >>> 4.1 Exported Interfaces >>> >>> Interface Name Classification Comments >>> --------------------------- ------------------- --------------------------- >>> >> [...] >> >>> /usr/lib/libgpgme.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >>> /usr/lib/libgpgme-pthread.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >>> /usr/lib/libgpgme-pth.so.11.6.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >>> /usr/lib/libksba.so.8.9.6 Uncommmitted Shared library >>> /usr/lib/libpth.so.20.0.27 Uncommitted Shared Library >>> >> Would you please state the SONAMEs of those libraries? >> > > Here are the SONAMEs: > > libgpgme.so.11 > libgpgme-pthread.so.11 > libgpgme-pth.so.11 > libksba.so.8 > libpth.so.20 > > -Wyllys > >