From sureshc@sac.sfbay.sun.com Thu Aug 13 08:44:53 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7DFiq39001677 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7DFilTI015822; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:44:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOB00B13NQQ8300@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.11.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOB006CTNQQQG20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (sac.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.132]) by dm-sfbay-02.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7DFinsL021806; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7DFim6W001670; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshc@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id n7DFimGN001666; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:44:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Suresh Chandrasekharan Subject: xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: gto@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 2466 I'm filing this case as self review and automatic approval for Javier Acosta. Seeks minor binding. Suresh Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Javier Acosta 1.3 Date of This Document: 13 August, 2009 4. Technical Description OVERVIEW This case is to upgrade our XKB data from xkeyboard-config v1.4 to xkeyboard-config v1.6. Currently Solaris Nevada and OpenSolaris use xkeyboard-config v1.4 as its primary source of the XKB data. The xkeyboard-config is part of the freedesktop project and it is actively maintained and upgraded; the latest available version is v1.6 which includes several bugs fixed (36) and new configuration components added. With this case Solaris Nevada and OpenSolaris would be "up-stream" with other Linux distributions in terms of compatibility and number of keyboard layouts available. After the upgrade, we believe that there will be many more new keyboard layout symbols for several countries and regions of the world, more variants for existing and for new keyboard layouts, support for additional models of physical keyboards, updated geometries and keycodes, and such that are 100% compatible with other Linux distributions and also widely accepted by various user communities in the world. In directory structure also, there will be no significant differences between the current one and the one that will be provided by the upgrade of xkeyboard-config. One visible difference will be that the handling of server keys and X server termination are separated into different xkb option groups. INTERFACE STABILITY Exported interfaces are like the following. There is no imported interface that is significant. Interfaces Stability Description ---------- --------- ----------- /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/* Uncommitted XKB definition files & directories. REFERENCES [1] PSARC/2009/117 Self Review [2] OSR #12375 xkeyboard-config v. 1.6 (inbound review) [3] OSR #11059 xkeyboard-config v. 1.4 (inbound review) [4] OSR #11093 XKeyboardConfig (outbound review) 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: G11N 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From gdamore@sun.com Thu Aug 13 09:58:44 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7DGwiU4003965 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7DGwaOW035655; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOB00I21R5UVU00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOB0066SR5RQ580@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7DGwdkl017884; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KOB00J00R1M1J00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOB00CSKR44ZR90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:57:40 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Suresh Chandrasekharan Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, gto@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 2719 Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: > I'm filing this case as self review and automatic approval for Javier > Acosta. Seeks minor binding. > > Suresh > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI > This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Javier Acosta > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 13 August, 2009 > 4. Technical Description > OVERVIEW > > This case is to upgrade our XKB data from xkeyboard-config v1.4 to > xkeyboard-config v1.6. > > Currently Solaris Nevada and OpenSolaris use xkeyboard-config v1.4 as > its primary source of the XKB data. The xkeyboard-config is part of the > freedesktop project and it is actively maintained and upgraded; the > latest available version is v1.6 which includes several bugs fixed (36) > and new configuration components added. With this case Solaris Nevada > and OpenSolaris would be "up-stream" with other Linux distributions in > terms of compatibility and number of keyboard layouts available. > > After the upgrade, we believe that there will be many more new keyboard > layout symbols for several countries and regions of the world, more > variants for existing and for new keyboard layouts, support for > additional models of physical keyboards, updated geometries and > keycodes, and such that are 100% compatible with other Linux > distributions and also widely accepted by various user communities in > the world. > > In directory structure also, there will be no significant differences > between the current one and the one that will be provided by the > upgrade of xkeyboard-config. > > One visible difference will be that the handling of server keys and X > server termination are separated into different xkb option groups. > I'd like to see that difference spelled out in more specific detail, please. - Garrett > > INTERFACE STABILITY > > Exported interfaces are like the following. There is no imported interface > that is significant. > > Interfaces Stability Description > ---------- --------- ----------- > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/* Uncommitted XKB definition files & directories. > > > REFERENCES > > [1] PSARC/2009/117 Self Review > [2] OSR #12375 xkeyboard-config v. 1.6 (inbound review) > [3] OSR #11059 xkeyboard-config v. 1.4 (inbound review) > [4] OSR #11093 XKeyboardConfig (outbound review) > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > G11N > 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > From Suresh.Chandrasekharan@sun.com Thu Aug 13 13:13:28 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7DKDRWV012212 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7DKDH7b029700; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:13:26 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOC0040H06CVC00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOC00HHZ06CSAA0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7DKDOZH009989; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOC0050005WJM00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.67] ([unknown] [74.183.249.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOC00BKQ06A3G50@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:09:21 -0400 From: Suresh Chandrasekharan Subject: Re: xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> Sender: Suresh.Chandrasekharan@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Suresh Chandrasekharan , psarc-ext@sun.com, gto@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 3308 Hi Garret, I think the visible difference being the X server terminate key sequence (Ctrl-Alt-Bkspace) removed from /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl group and put into a new group /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/terminate. Rest of the server control keys (Ctrl-Alt-) still remain in /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl file. Javier may be able to add more info if needed. He will be back from vacation coming Monday. Regards, Suresh Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: >> I'm filing this case as self review and automatic approval for Javier >> Acosta. Seeks minor binding. >> >> Suresh >> >> >> Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI >> This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems >> 1. Introduction >> 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: >> xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 >> 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: >> Author: Javier Acosta >> 1.3 Date of This Document: >> 13 August, 2009 >> 4. Technical Description >> OVERVIEW >> >> This case is to upgrade our XKB data from xkeyboard-config v1.4 to >> xkeyboard-config v1.6. >> >> Currently Solaris Nevada and OpenSolaris use xkeyboard-config v1.4 as >> its primary source of the XKB data. The xkeyboard-config is part of the >> freedesktop project and it is actively maintained and upgraded; the >> latest available version is v1.6 which includes several bugs fixed (36) >> and new configuration components added. With this case Solaris Nevada >> and OpenSolaris would be "up-stream" with other Linux distributions in >> terms of compatibility and number of keyboard layouts available. >> >> After the upgrade, we believe that there will be many more new keyboard >> layout symbols for several countries and regions of the world, more >> variants for existing and for new keyboard layouts, support for >> additional models of physical keyboards, updated geometries and >> keycodes, and such that are 100% compatible with other Linux >> distributions and also widely accepted by various user communities in >> the world. >> >> In directory structure also, there will be no significant differences >> between the current one and the one that will be provided by the >> upgrade of xkeyboard-config. >> >> One visible difference will be that the handling of server keys and X >> server termination are separated into different xkb option groups. >> > > I'd like to see that difference spelled out in more specific detail, > please. > > - Garrett >> >> INTERFACE STABILITY >> >> Exported interfaces are like the following. There is no imported >> interface >> that is significant. >> >> Interfaces Stability Description >> ---------- --------- ----------- >> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/* Uncommitted XKB definition files & >> directories. >> >> >> REFERENCES >> >> [1] PSARC/2009/117 Self Review >> [2] OSR #12375 xkeyboard-config v. 1.6 (inbound review) >> [3] OSR #11059 xkeyboard-config v. 1.4 (inbound review) >> [4] OSR #11093 XKeyboardConfig (outbound review) >> >> 6. Resources and Schedule >> 6.4. Steering Committee requested information >> 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: >> G11N >> 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic >> 6.6. ARC Exposure: open >> >> > From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Aug 13 14:16:23 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7DLGNhN013892 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7DLGL97017575; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOC00M0733BGM00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOC008QD33AUNA0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7DLGM5t016767; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KOC00C002STXH00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.6.102.27] ([unknown] [10.6.102.27]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOC00JNH330UF60@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:12 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Suresh Chandrasekharan Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , gto@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org, Suresh Chandrasekharan Message-id: <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 5003 The net effect being that Ctrl-Alt-Backspace will no longer exit the server in the default configuration, only after it is configured to do so. (This is a contentious issue in the X userbase - some have hailed us for finally stopping the random death of the server to users who mistype because they use applications which bind to Ctrl-Backspace, others decry us for removing the escape hatch they rely on when things go too badly wrong. http://who-t.blogspot.com/2009/04/zapping-server.html is a fairly good summary.) Of course, those of us who only use Sun Unix layout keyboards may find the arguments less compelling than those using standard PC layouts where Ctrl and Alt are close enough to accidentally hit both at once, but our user base has a lot more of those keyboards than Unix layout keyboards. Normally I'd argue that xkb-config updates are so far below the radar as to not even need self-review cases, but this change has been proven to be controversial enough on other platforms that it deserves at least an awareness of upcoming change. (Should we decide we want to change the default to enable C-A-B, it should be a simple matter of adding the terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp option to the XKB options in the HAL .fdi file we use to configure keyboards now.) -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: > Hi Garret, > I think the visible difference being the X server terminate key > sequence (Ctrl-Alt-Bkspace) removed from > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl group and put into a new group > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/terminate. Rest of the server control keys > (Ctrl-Alt-) still remain in /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl > file. > > Javier may be able to add more info if needed. He will be back from > vacation coming Monday. > > Regards, > Suresh > > > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: >>> I'm filing this case as self review and automatic approval for Javier >>> Acosta. Seeks minor binding. >>> >>> Suresh >>> >>> >>> Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI >>> This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems >>> 1. Introduction >>> 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: >>> xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 >>> 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: >>> Author: Javier Acosta >>> 1.3 Date of This Document: >>> 13 August, 2009 >>> 4. Technical Description >>> OVERVIEW >>> >>> This case is to upgrade our XKB data from xkeyboard-config v1.4 to >>> xkeyboard-config v1.6. >>> >>> Currently Solaris Nevada and OpenSolaris use xkeyboard-config v1.4 as >>> its primary source of the XKB data. The xkeyboard-config is part of the >>> freedesktop project and it is actively maintained and upgraded; the >>> latest available version is v1.6 which includes several bugs fixed (36) >>> and new configuration components added. With this case Solaris Nevada >>> and OpenSolaris would be "up-stream" with other Linux distributions in >>> terms of compatibility and number of keyboard layouts available. >>> >>> After the upgrade, we believe that there will be many more new keyboard >>> layout symbols for several countries and regions of the world, more >>> variants for existing and for new keyboard layouts, support for >>> additional models of physical keyboards, updated geometries and >>> keycodes, and such that are 100% compatible with other Linux >>> distributions and also widely accepted by various user communities in >>> the world. >>> >>> In directory structure also, there will be no significant differences >>> between the current one and the one that will be provided by the >>> upgrade of xkeyboard-config. >>> >>> One visible difference will be that the handling of server keys and X >>> server termination are separated into different xkb option groups. >>> >> >> I'd like to see that difference spelled out in more specific detail, >> please. >> >> - Garrett >>> >>> INTERFACE STABILITY >>> >>> Exported interfaces are like the following. There is no imported >>> interface >>> that is significant. >>> >>> Interfaces Stability Description >>> ---------- --------- ----------- >>> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/* Uncommitted XKB definition files & >>> directories. >>> >>> >>> REFERENCES >>> >>> [1] PSARC/2009/117 Self Review >>> [2] OSR #12375 xkeyboard-config v. 1.6 (inbound review) >>> [3] OSR #11059 xkeyboard-config v. 1.4 (inbound review) >>> [4] OSR #11093 XKeyboardConfig (outbound review) >>> >>> 6. Resources and Schedule >>> 6.4. Steering Committee requested information >>> 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: >>> G11N >>> 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic >>> 6.6. ARC Exposure: open >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > i18n-discuss mailing list > i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss From gdamore@Sun.COM Thu Aug 13 14:30:00 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7DLTxUK013970 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7DLTvr7016079; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:29:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOC000033PYS700@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOC0089K3PXUQB0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7DLTvWG018204; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOC00H003H58B00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOC00M083PVFM00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:55 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@Sun.COM To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: Suresh Chandrasekharan , gto@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@Sun.COM, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org, Suresh Chandrasekharan Message-id: <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 6108 Given that this is a potentially contentious issue, doesn't that automatically raise it above the bar required for being a fast track instead of a self-review? (What application would bind to Ctrl-Backspace? That's one I've never seen before...) I realize that this issue may border on the level of being a bikeshed, and while I personally have no opinion (or at least not a strong enough one to make a fuss, especially if I have an easy to reenable the current behavior), I think the changed behavior suggests we should at least give it a the normal courtesy of being a fast track, to give anyone who might have more compelling reasons why such a change in behavior would not be good a chance to respond. Please promote this case to a fast track. I'll +1 it now just to make sure it doesn't have a risk of being "closed denied not reviewed". - Garrett Alan Coopersmith wrote: > The net effect being that Ctrl-Alt-Backspace will no longer exit the server > in the default configuration, only after it is configured to do so. > > (This is a contentious issue in the X userbase - some have hailed us for > finally stopping the random death of the server to users who mistype > because they use applications which bind to Ctrl-Backspace, others decry > us for removing the escape hatch they rely on when things go too badly > wrong. http://who-t.blogspot.com/2009/04/zapping-server.html is a > fairly good summary.) > > Of course, those of us who only use Sun Unix layout keyboards may find > the arguments less compelling than those using standard PC layouts where > Ctrl and Alt are close enough to accidentally hit both at once, but our > user base has a lot more of those keyboards than Unix layout keyboards. > > Normally I'd argue that xkb-config updates are so far below the radar as > to not even need self-review cases, but this change has been proven to > be controversial enough on other platforms that it deserves at least an > awareness of upcoming change. > > (Should we decide we want to change the default to enable C-A-B, it should > be a simple matter of adding the terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp option to the > XKB options in the HAL .fdi file we use to configure keyboards now.) > > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com > Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering > > Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: > >> Hi Garret, >> I think the visible difference being the X server terminate key >> sequence (Ctrl-Alt-Bkspace) removed from >> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl group and put into a new group >> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/terminate. Rest of the server control keys >> (Ctrl-Alt-) still remain in /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl >> file. >> >> Javier may be able to add more info if needed. He will be back from >> vacation coming Monday. >> >> Regards, >> Suresh >> >> >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> >>> Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: >>> >>>> I'm filing this case as self review and automatic approval for Javier >>>> Acosta. Seeks minor binding. >>>> >>>> Suresh >>>> >>>> >>>> Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI >>>> This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems >>>> 1. Introduction >>>> 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: >>>> xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 >>>> 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: >>>> Author: Javier Acosta >>>> 1.3 Date of This Document: >>>> 13 August, 2009 >>>> 4. Technical Description >>>> OVERVIEW >>>> >>>> This case is to upgrade our XKB data from xkeyboard-config v1.4 to >>>> xkeyboard-config v1.6. >>>> >>>> Currently Solaris Nevada and OpenSolaris use xkeyboard-config v1.4 as >>>> its primary source of the XKB data. The xkeyboard-config is part of the >>>> freedesktop project and it is actively maintained and upgraded; the >>>> latest available version is v1.6 which includes several bugs fixed (36) >>>> and new configuration components added. With this case Solaris Nevada >>>> and OpenSolaris would be "up-stream" with other Linux distributions in >>>> terms of compatibility and number of keyboard layouts available. >>>> >>>> After the upgrade, we believe that there will be many more new keyboard >>>> layout symbols for several countries and regions of the world, more >>>> variants for existing and for new keyboard layouts, support for >>>> additional models of physical keyboards, updated geometries and >>>> keycodes, and such that are 100% compatible with other Linux >>>> distributions and also widely accepted by various user communities in >>>> the world. >>>> >>>> In directory structure also, there will be no significant differences >>>> between the current one and the one that will be provided by the >>>> upgrade of xkeyboard-config. >>>> >>>> One visible difference will be that the handling of server keys and X >>>> server termination are separated into different xkb option groups. >>>> >>>> >>> I'd like to see that difference spelled out in more specific detail, >>> please. >>> >>> - Garrett >>> >>>> INTERFACE STABILITY >>>> >>>> Exported interfaces are like the following. There is no imported >>>> interface >>>> that is significant. >>>> >>>> Interfaces Stability Description >>>> ---------- --------- ----------- >>>> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/* Uncommitted XKB definition files & >>>> directories. >>>> >>>> >>>> REFERENCES >>>> >>>> [1] PSARC/2009/117 Self Review >>>> [2] OSR #12375 xkeyboard-config v. 1.6 (inbound review) >>>> [3] OSR #11059 xkeyboard-config v. 1.4 (inbound review) >>>> [4] OSR #11093 XKeyboardConfig (outbound review) >>>> >>>> 6. Resources and Schedule >>>> 6.4. Steering Committee requested information >>>> 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: >>>> G11N >>>> 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic >>>> 6.6. ARC Exposure: open >>>> >>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> i18n-discuss mailing list >> i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss >> > > From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Aug 13 14:31:32 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7DLVVWL013988 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7DLVUGT016988; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:31:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOC001013SIH100@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOC00JT93SHZDD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7DLVTS3021558; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KOC009003Q0SP00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.6.102.27] ([unknown] [10.6.102.27]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOC00JG23SHUFB0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:31:29 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Suresh Chandrasekharan , gto@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4A848631.2040706@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 325 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > (What application would bind to Ctrl-Backspace? That's one I've never > seen before...) Allegedly, it's common in emacs, though I've never used it in all the years I've used xemacs. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Suresh.Chandrasekharan@sun.com Thu Aug 13 17:42:53 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7E0gqNT022960 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7E0gm0Q007548; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:42:51 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOC0040BCNDT900@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOC006I9CNDP880@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7E0gnPR008273; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KOC00800CLKUF00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.67] ([unknown] [74.183.249.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOC007A2CNB56F0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:38:43 -0400 From: Suresh Chandrasekharan Subject: xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 FastTrack timeout 08/20/2009] In-reply-to: <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> Sender: Suresh.Chandrasekharan@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Alan Coopersmith , gto@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org, Suresh Chandrasekharan Message-id: <4A84B213.9000105@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 6396 Promoted to fasttrack timing out on 08/20/2009 Suresh Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Given that this is a potentially contentious issue, doesn't that > automatically raise it above the bar required for being a fast track > instead of a self-review? > > (What application would bind to Ctrl-Backspace? That's one I've never > seen before...) > > I realize that this issue may border on the level of being a bikeshed, > and while I personally have no opinion (or at least not a strong > enough one to make a fuss, especially if I have an easy to reenable > the current behavior), I think the changed behavior suggests we should > at least give it a the normal courtesy of being a fast track, to give > anyone who might have more compelling reasons why such a change in > behavior would not be good a chance to respond. > > Please promote this case to a fast track. > > I'll +1 it now just to make sure it doesn't have a risk of being > "closed denied not reviewed". > > - Garrett > > Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> The net effect being that Ctrl-Alt-Backspace will no longer exit the >> server >> in the default configuration, only after it is configured to do so. >> >> (This is a contentious issue in the X userbase - some have hailed us for >> finally stopping the random death of the server to users who mistype >> because they use applications which bind to Ctrl-Backspace, others >> decry >> us for removing the escape hatch they rely on when things go too badly >> wrong. http://who-t.blogspot.com/2009/04/zapping-server.html is a >> fairly good summary.) >> >> Of course, those of us who only use Sun Unix layout keyboards may find >> the arguments less compelling than those using standard PC layouts where >> Ctrl and Alt are close enough to accidentally hit both at once, but our >> user base has a lot more of those keyboards than Unix layout keyboards. >> >> Normally I'd argue that xkb-config updates are so far below the radar as >> to not even need self-review cases, but this change has been proven to >> be controversial enough on other platforms that it deserves at least an >> awareness of upcoming change. >> >> (Should we decide we want to change the default to enable C-A-B, it >> should >> be a simple matter of adding the terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp option to the >> XKB options in the HAL .fdi file we use to configure keyboards now.) >> >> -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com >> Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering >> >> Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: >> >>> Hi Garret, >>> I think the visible difference being the X server terminate key >>> sequence (Ctrl-Alt-Bkspace) removed from >>> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl group and put into a new group >>> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/terminate. Rest of the server control keys >>> (Ctrl-Alt-) still remain in /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/srvr_ctrl >>> file. >>> >>> Javier may be able to add more info if needed. He will be back from >>> vacation coming Monday. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Suresh >>> >>> >>> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> >>>> Suresh Chandrasekharan wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm filing this case as self review and automatic approval for Javier >>>>> Acosta. Seeks minor binding. >>>>> >>>>> Suresh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI >>>>> This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems >>>>> 1. Introduction >>>>> 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: >>>>> xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 >>>>> 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: >>>>> Author: Javier Acosta >>>>> 1.3 Date of This Document: >>>>> 13 August, 2009 >>>>> 4. Technical Description >>>>> OVERVIEW >>>>> >>>>> This case is to upgrade our XKB data from xkeyboard-config v1.4 to >>>>> xkeyboard-config v1.6. >>>>> >>>>> Currently Solaris Nevada and OpenSolaris use xkeyboard-config v1.4 as >>>>> its primary source of the XKB data. The xkeyboard-config is part >>>>> of the >>>>> freedesktop project and it is actively maintained and upgraded; the >>>>> latest available version is v1.6 which includes several bugs fixed >>>>> (36) >>>>> and new configuration components added. With this case Solaris >>>>> Nevada >>>>> and OpenSolaris would be "up-stream" with other Linux >>>>> distributions in >>>>> terms of compatibility and number of keyboard layouts available. >>>>> >>>>> After the upgrade, we believe that there will be many more new >>>>> keyboard >>>>> layout symbols for several countries and regions of the world, more >>>>> variants for existing and for new keyboard layouts, support for >>>>> additional models of physical keyboards, updated geometries and >>>>> keycodes, and such that are 100% compatible with other Linux >>>>> distributions and also widely accepted by various user communities in >>>>> the world. >>>>> >>>>> In directory structure also, there will be no significant differences >>>>> between the current one and the one that will be provided by the >>>>> upgrade of xkeyboard-config. >>>>> >>>>> One visible difference will be that the handling of server keys and X >>>>> server termination are separated into different xkb option groups. >>>>> >>>> I'd like to see that difference spelled out in more specific detail, >>>> please. >>>> >>>> - Garrett >>>> >>>>> INTERFACE STABILITY >>>>> >>>>> Exported interfaces are like the following. There is no imported >>>>> interface >>>>> that is significant. >>>>> >>>>> Interfaces Stability Description >>>>> ---------- --------- ----------- >>>>> /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb/* Uncommitted XKB definition files & >>>>> directories. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> REFERENCES >>>>> >>>>> [1] PSARC/2009/117 Self Review >>>>> [2] OSR #12375 xkeyboard-config v. 1.6 (inbound review) >>>>> [3] OSR #11059 xkeyboard-config v. 1.4 (inbound review) >>>>> [4] OSR #11093 XKeyboardConfig (outbound review) >>>>> >>>>> 6. Resources and Schedule >>>>> 6.4. Steering Committee requested information >>>>> 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: >>>>> G11N >>>>> 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic >>>>> 6.6. ARC Exposure: open >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> i18n-discuss mailing list >>> i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org >>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss >>> >> >> > From gdamore@sun.com Thu Aug 13 23:57:59 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7E6vwMR003389 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7E6t7hQ013752; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:57:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOC0060JTZYVH00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOC009NJTZXN0C0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7E6vXMc014458; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOC00H00TORCS00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOC00DCRTZT7T30@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:28 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A848631.2040706@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: Suresh Chandrasekharan , gto@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4A850AD8.6080807@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> <4A848631.2040706@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 543 Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> (What application would bind to Ctrl-Backspace? That's one I've never >> seen before...) >> > > Allegedly, it's common in emacs, though I've never used it in all the years > I've used xemacs. > > Neither have. Although I have to admit that I only use emacs for writing source code -- I don't use it as a web browser, news reader, mailer, chat client, personal psychologist, chess partner, or any of the other things that I've heard emacs can also do. ;-) -- Garrett From srw@sun.com Fri Aug 14 00:14:20 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7E7EJVo000696 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7E7ED88026983; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:14:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOC00D03URRZS00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.59]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOC006FQURR5P50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.7.250.188] (punchin-client-10-7-250-188.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.7.250.188]) by jurassic-x4600.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7E7EEx0142983; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:14:13 -0500 From: Shawn Walker Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A850AD8.6080807@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Alan Coopersmith , gto@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org, Suresh Chandrasekharan Message-id: <4A850EC5.1060308@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> <4A848631.2040706@sun.com> <4A850AD8.6080807@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090505) Status: RO Content-Length: 697 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> >>> (What application would bind to Ctrl-Backspace? That's one I've never >>> seen before...) >>> >> >> Allegedly, it's common in emacs, though I've never used it in all the >> years >> I've used xemacs. >> >> > > Neither have. Although I have to admit that I only use emacs for > writing source code -- I don't use it as a web browser, news reader, > mailer, chat client, personal psychologist, chess partner, or any of the > other things that I've heard emacs can also do. ;-) I've seen it used in terminal programs to force sending a ^H. Cheers, -- Shawn Walker | srw@sun.com | blogs.sun.com/srw From Suresh.Chandrasekharan@sun.com Tue Aug 25 08:40:31 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7PFeVAU017475 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7PFeTE7003126; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOX00517VJJRD00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOX00JQZVJDNYE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7PFePkI002634; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOX00G00V5GIL00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.67] ([unknown] [74.183.249.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOX004CJVJBYBE0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:36:00 -0400 From: Suresh Chandrasekharan Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A850EC5.1060308@sun.com> Sender: Suresh.Chandrasekharan@sun.com To: Shawn Walker Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Alan Coopersmith , gto@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4A9404E0.4000808@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> <4A8485D3.20704@sun.com> <4A848631.2040706@sun.com> <4A850AD8.6080807@sun.com> <4A850EC5.1060308@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 736 timed out and approved on 08/20/09. Suresh Shawn Walker wrote: > Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Alan Coopersmith wrote: >>> Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> >>>> (What application would bind to Ctrl-Backspace? That's one I've never >>>> seen before...) >>>> >>> >>> Allegedly, it's common in emacs, though I've never used it in all >>> the years >>> I've used xemacs. >>> >>> >> >> Neither have. Although I have to admit that I only use emacs for >> writing source code -- I don't use it as a web browser, news reader, >> mailer, chat client, personal psychologist, chess partner, or any of >> the other things that I've heard emacs can also do. ;-) > > I've seen it used in terminal programs to force sending a ^H. > > Cheers, From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Tue Aug 25 10:58:42 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7PHwfLS023209 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7PHweUA015615; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOY005091XS0V00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOY00HS91XSRJD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7PHloeR001926; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:47:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n7PHloYi001925; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:47:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:47:50 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: Suresh Chandrasekharan , gto@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore" , Suresh Chandrasekharan Message-id: <20090825174750.GM1033@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 1596 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 02:16:12PM -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > (This is a contentious issue in the X userbase - some have hailed us for > finally stopping the random death of the server to users who mistype > because they use applications which bind to Ctrl-Backspace, others decry > us for removing the escape hatch they rely on when things go too badly > wrong. http://who-t.blogspot.com/2009/04/zapping-server.html is a > fairly good summary.) > > Of course, those of us who only use Sun Unix layout keyboards may find > the arguments less compelling than those using standard PC layouts where > Ctrl and Alt are close enough to accidentally hit both at once, but our > user base has a lot more of those keyboards than Unix layout keyboards. I use PC keyboards. I never have had this problem _except_ in connection with my use of the sticky keys A11Y feature. Suppose I've hit shift twice to keep the keyboard shifted, then I intend to type a control character, but change my mind and decide to hit backspace; oops. But that's very rare. > (Should we decide we want to change the default to enable C-A-B, it should > be a simple matter of adding the terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp option to the > XKB options in the HAL .fdi file we use to configure keyboards now.) IMO it's really unfortunate that we need C-A-B at all, but, for as long as we do need it (e.g., until the VT project delivers), then I think it should be enabled by default, but that's a weak "should". It's not a big deal if it goes away, provided there's a suitable note in the release notes about it. Nico -- From Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM Tue Aug 25 16:20:31 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7PNKUdk017895 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7PNKPtK023123; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:20:29 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOY00C0FGU3C700@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOY009SMGU39N20@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7PNKRNt018128; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOY00C00GRVKL00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.4.31] ([unknown] [124.207.175.210]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOY00JAMGTZAK70@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:20:21 +0800 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <20090825174750.GM1033@Sun.COM> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM To: Nicolas Williams Cc: Suresh Chandrasekharan , gto@Sun.COM, psarc-ext@Sun.COM, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore" , Suresh Chandrasekharan Message-id: <4A9471B5.6030502@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> <20090825174750.GM1033@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090804) Status: RO Content-Length: 399 Nicolas Williams wrote: > IMO it's really unfortunate that we need C-A-B at all, but, for as long > as we do need it (e.g., until the VT project delivers), The VT project delivered before this xkeyboard-config update. (You should be able to use VT's in snv_123 if you svccfg them on.) -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Tue Aug 25 16:30:05 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7PNU45U017957 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7PNTmlG026270; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:30:00 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOY00D09H9X1800@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOY0099MH9X9L40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7PNJ85Z002300; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:19:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n7PNJ6XQ002299; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:19:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:19:06 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: [i18n-discuss] xkeyboard-config update from v1.4 to v1.6 [PSARC/2009/440 Self Review] In-reply-to: <4A9471B5.6030502@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: Suresh Chandrasekharan , gto@sun.com, psarc-ext@sun.com, i18n-discuss@opensolaris.org, "Garrett D'Amore" , Suresh Chandrasekharan Message-id: <20090825231905.GY1033@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <200908131544.n7DFimGN001666@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4A844604.5060008@sun.com> <4A8472F1.10906@sun.com> <4A84829C.3090309@sun.com> <20090825174750.GM1033@Sun.COM> <4A9471B5.6030502@sun.com> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Status: RO Content-Length: 628 On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 07:20:21AM +0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Nicolas Williams wrote: > >IMO it's really unfortunate that we need C-A-B at all, but, for as long > >as we do need it (e.g., until the VT project delivers), > > The VT project delivered before this xkeyboard-config update. > (You should be able to use VT's in snv_123 if you svccfg them on.) Oh, sweet. Then IMO this case should be considered entirely non-controversial. If you need to kill your X11 session you can switch to another VT, login, kill your session's processes (or if you have the authorization for it, kill your session's Xorg). Nico --