From Wed Sep 2 09:24:38 2009 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:24:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Postmaster Subject: Message from mail server Content-Length: 95 Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO X-IMAP: 1251908678 29 Delete. This is a system message. --END+PSEUDO-- From sacadmin Fri Aug 21 13:24:11 2009 Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LKOB6d019860; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from johnf@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id n7LKOBK2019856; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:24:11 -0700 (PDT) From: John Fischer Message-Id: <200908212024.n7LKOBK2019856@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: PSARC-record@sac.sfbay.sun.com Cc: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Subject: Environment Modules [PSARC/2009/455 FastTrack timeout 08/28/2009] Content-Length: 558 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000001 Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Environment Modules 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Bruce Rothermal 1.3 Date of This Document: 21 August, 2009 4. Technical Description See the case directory for more detail 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: SFW 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From John.Fischer@sun.com Fri Aug 21 13:33:19 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LKXJIO020001 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7LKXJMM015766 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOQ00003UFIU000@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOQ00DY8UFI8O70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7LKXH9l015540 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:33:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOQ00000U9LJG00@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.10.4] ([unknown] [76.20.56.47]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOQ00BH4UFDM650@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:33:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:31:06 -0700 From: John Fischer Subject: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules Sender: John.Fischer@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Bruce Rothermal , John.Fischer@sun.com Reply-to: John.Fischer@sun.com Message-id: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_UA9w+QXti3Eu2jC9sd80pQ)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090505) Content-Length: 4322 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000002 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_UA9w+QXti3Eu2jC9sd80pQ) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT PSARC, I am sponsoring this project for Bruce Rothermal who will be integrating this project via the SFW consolidation. I have set the timer for Friday, August 28th. The case directory contains this proposal, FOSS check list, and appropriate man pages. This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment modules provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts. These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. Thanks, John --Boundary_(ID_UA9w+QXti3Eu2jC9sd80pQ) Content-type: text/plain; name=proposal.txt Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline; filename=proposal.txt 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Environment Modules 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Bruce Rothermal 1.3. Date of This Document: 20 August 2009 2. Project Summary 2.1 Project Description This project introduces the package of Environment Modules Ver 3.2.6 into the SFW consolidation. 4. Technical Description: The environment modules package provides for an easy dynamic modification of a user's environment via modulefiles. which typically instruct the module command to alter or set shell environment variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. Command name Notes =================================================================== module Link or alias to modulecmd modulecmd Command interface to the Modules package. 5. Interfaces Exported interface Classification Interface type ============================= ============== ============== SUNWenvmod Uncommitted Package name /usr/bin/modulecmd Uncommitted Command /usr/share/man/man1/module.1 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/man/man4/modulefile.4 Uncommitted Manpage /usr/share/Modules/bin/add.modules Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/bin/mkroot Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/bash Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/csh Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/ksh Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/perl Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/python Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/sh Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/tcsh Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/init/zsh Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/modulefiles/dot Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/modulefiles/module-cvs Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/modulefiles/module-info Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/modulefiles/modules Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/modulefiles/null Uncommitted Script /usr/share/Modules/modulefiles/use.own Uncommitted Script Imported interface Classification Comments ======================= ============== =================================== /lib/ld.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr /usr/lib/libtcl8.4.so Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWTcl /lib/libdl.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr /lib/libm.so.2 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWlibmsr /usr/lib/libX11.so.4 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWxwrtl /lib/libnsl.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr /lib/libsocket.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr /lib/libc.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr /lib/libpthread.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr /usr/lib/libXext.so.0 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWxwrtl Environment Modules also uses HOME and DISPLAY environmental variables. 6. Resources and Schedule: 6.4. Product Approval Committee requested information: 6.4.1. Consolidation or Component Name: SFW 6.5. ARC review type: Automatic 6.6. ARC Exposure: open --Boundary_(ID_UA9w+QXti3Eu2jC9sd80pQ)-- From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Aug 21 13:55:49 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LKtmuu020585 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7LKtiAW023630; Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:55:45 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOQ00A03VGWX900@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOQ00AN5VGWEHE0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7LKth6W013410; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:55:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp41es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.10] [160.41.221.10]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-17054; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:55:43 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay44i.sun.com (relay44i.sun.com [192.5.209.118]) by mmp41es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1686697; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:55:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.49] [151.189.21.49]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-427884; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:48:15 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.29]) by mx.arcor.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8F71AF525; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:47:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-12-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3474F279465; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:47:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-094-219-223-167.pools.arcor-ip.net [94.219.223.167]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 044151AF583; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:47:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LKlp0k000942; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:47:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:47:51 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: John.Fischer@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <4A8F07F7.BD16E14E@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 mail-in-09.arcor-online.net 044151AF583 X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.261sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> Content-Length: 1428 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000003 John Fischer wrote: > > PSARC, > > I am sponsoring this project for Bruce Rothermal who will be integrating > this project via the SFW consolidation. I have set the timer for Friday, > August 28th. The case directory contains this proposal, FOSS check list, > and appropriate man pages. > > This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a > Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment modules > provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts. > These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, MANPATH, > etc. [snip] > 4. Technical Description: > > The environment modules package provides for an easy dynamic > modification of a user's environment via modulefiles. which > typically instruct the module command to alter or set shell > environment variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. How does this work ? AFAIK the shells have no API which allow another process to just write or override the values of shell-internal values ? Or is it expected that existing commands in /usr/bin/ are replaced with the "module" wrapper and then select a matching binariy from { /usr/gnu/bin/, /usr/oldsystemvcmd/bin/, /usr/bsd/bin/ etc. } ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Fri Aug 21 14:36:34 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LLaXHM021616 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7LLaW2v014041; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOQ00B05XCXMV00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM ([129.153.128.104]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOQ00INTXCWXWB0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7LLPmdw006494; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:25:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3/Submit) id n7LLPmBA006493; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:25:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:25:48 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A8F07F7.BD16E14E@nrubsig.org> To: Roland Mainz Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <20090821212547.GS1043@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A8F07F7.BD16E14E@nrubsig.org> X-Authentication-warning: binky.Central.Sun.COM: nw141292 set sender to Nicolas.Williams@sun.com using -f User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i Content-Length: 253 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000004 On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:47:51PM +0200, Roland Mainz wrote: > How does this work ? ... AFAICS it adds goop to skel shell dot files to setup functions/aliases which do the work of calling out to support utilities and updating the shell's environment. From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Fri Aug 21 14:38:12 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LLcBkV021630 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7LLc9SG028306; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOQ00F13XFLJY00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOQ00BIWXFKKX60@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7LLQ0jJ003980; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:38:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.12] [160.41.208.12]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-703479; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:38:08 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (relay11i.sun.com [129.179.4.121]) by mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2945871; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:38:08 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-14.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.54] [151.189.21.54]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-7620904; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:38:07 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-08-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-08-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.20]) by mx.arcor.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74FB128AD89; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:38:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-10.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.50]) by mail-in-08-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E252130CF; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:38:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-094-219-223-167.pools.arcor-ip.net [94.219.223.167]) by mail-in-10.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7295428ED2B; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:38:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LLc2ET000956; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:38:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:38:02 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: John.Fischer@sun.com Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <4A8F13BA.F63F4D2E@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 mail-in-10.arcor-online.net 7295428ED2B References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> Content-Length: 2787 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000005 John Fischer wrote: > I am sponsoring this project for Bruce Rothermal who will be integrating > this project via the SFW consolidation. I have set the timer for Friday, > August 28th. The case directory contains this proposal, FOSS check list, > and appropriate man pages. > > This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a > Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment modules > provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts. > These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, MANPATH, > etc. [snip] > 4. Technical Description: > > The environment modules package provides for an easy dynamic > modification of a user's environment via modulefiles. which > typically instruct the module command to alter or set shell > environment variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. > > Command name Notes > =================================================================== > module Link or alias to modulecmd > modulecmd Command interface to the Modules package. [snip] > Imported interface Classification Comments > ======================= ============== =================================== > /lib/ld.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr > /usr/lib/libtcl8.4.so Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWTcl > /lib/libdl.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr > /lib/libm.so.2 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWlibmsr > /usr/lib/libX11.so.4 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWxwrtl > /lib/libnsl.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr > /lib/libsocket.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr > /lib/libc.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr > /lib/libpthread.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWcslr > /usr/lib/libXext.so.0 Uncommitted Library provided by SUNWxwrtl I took a dive in the actual code at http://modules.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/modules/modules/ to see how it works... 1. ... aren't the shells and their environment files imported interfaces too, e.g. shouldn't the list include /usrbin/bash (and ~/.bashrc + ~/.bash_profile), /usr/bin/ksh (and ~/.profile, ~/.kshrc + ~/.kshrc), /usr/bin/ksh93 (and ~/.profile,~/.kshrc + ~/.kshrc), /usr/bin/zsh (erm... I don't know exactly which files zsh uses for startup) etc. ? 2. Please correct me if I am wrong... but does the "modules" stuff differ between "login shell" and "interactive shell" ? ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com Fri Aug 21 14:53:05 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7LLr4Kw022014 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7LLr3GW020482 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:53:04 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOQ00H0XY4F5L00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOQ00BXFY4AL250@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7LLqwCc019680 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOQ00G00Y1FFE00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([unknown] [67.164.163.234]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOQ0079XY49YLB0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:52:56 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A8F07F7.BD16E14E@nrubsig.org> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com To: Roland Mainz Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1074C621-09A6-49B3-9A61-162ECAB48C42@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Hq8Dr67TOo1PZtJRgJihyA)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A8F07F7.BD16E14E@nrubsig.org> Content-Length: 7068 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000006 --Boundary_(ID_Hq8Dr67TOo1PZtJRgJihyA) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Let me see if I understand the question right. The modulecmd will load the basic env for the specific shell you wish to use. For example modulecmd bash load this sets the base to start from. Users of the tool will then create project specific modulefiles which contain environment needs such as PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, ENV_VAR1, ENV_VAR2, etc, etc. Everyone on the project could then load the appropriate environment easily with: modulecmd bash project_modulefile load When changes are needed to the environment the project_modulefile is changed in one location for all members of the project to use and everyone is up to date with the changes. regards Bruce On Aug 21, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Roland Mainz wrote: > John Fischer wrote: >> >> PSARC, >> >> I am sponsoring this project for Bruce Rothermal who will be >> integrating >> this project via the SFW consolidation. I have set the timer for >> Friday, >> August 28th. The case directory contains this proposal, FOSS check >> list, >> and appropriate man pages. >> >> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >> modules >> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >> scripts. >> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >> MANPATH, >> etc. > [snip] >> 4. Technical Description: >> >> The environment modules package provides for an easy dynamic >> modification of a user's environment via modulefiles. which >> typically instruct the module command to alter or set shell >> environment variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. > > How does this work ? 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CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_Hq8Dr67TOo1PZtJRgJihyA)-- From Joep.Vesseur@sun.com Mon Aug 24 00:35:49 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7O7Znxu023062 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7O7ZlCn010964 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOV00D05EFOGT00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOV00FJVEFNHOE0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7O7Zku7002922 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:35:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOV00C00E6GQG00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:35:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from [10.16.117.32] ([unknown] [10.16.117.32]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOV004IDEEZ20G0@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:35:24 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:37:08 +0200 From: Joep Vesseur Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> Sender: Joep.Vesseur@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090803) Content-Length: 1048 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000007 On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: > This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a > Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment modules > provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts. > These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, MANPATH, > etc. I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override any settings they want to tweak. I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm not sure that we build a useful architecture here. Joep From gdamore@sun.com Mon Aug 24 00:50:43 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7O7ogUj023145 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7O7odkF026751 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:50:41 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOV00A15F4GY900@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOV0043FF4G3K40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7O7odJJ009159 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOV00700F1GCT00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOV008KHF4FHN80@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:50:39 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Joep Vesseur Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Content-Length: 2403 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000008 Joep Vesseur wrote: > On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: > > >> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment modules >> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts. >> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, MANPATH, >> etc. >> > > I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no > rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: > > Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ > write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine > that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators > (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override > any settings they want to tweak. > > I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for > something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think > there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm > not sure that we build a useful architecture here. > > Joep > I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are integrating something which some sites or projects might already be using (and hence are offering it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this case would not otherwise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think we'd want to have a lot more scrutiny over a change intended to fundamentally alter the way user environments are managed. So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of others here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make our time spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1. However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this case a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user environments are managed (or that we recommend they be managed.) I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no way of distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct and "first class", and those technologies which we integrated simply to make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we might elect to steer users and ISVs away from.) But unfortunately at present we have no framework to provide this information to the people who need it most. -- Garrett From Milan.Jurik@sun.com Mon Aug 24 08:10:26 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OFAQ8m006530 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OFA1NF007065 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOV00M0FZHDNH00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOV00FOXZHB4RA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OFANRS023106 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:10:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOV00E00YTUI500@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:10:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.157.16.189] ([unknown] [129.157.16.189]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOV009D3ZGD53B0@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:09:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:09:49 +0200 From: Milan Jurik Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> Sender: Milan.Jurik@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Reply-to: Milan.Jurik@sun.com Message-id: <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090311) Content-Length: 2922 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000009 Hi, On 08/24/09 09:50, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Joep Vesseur wrote: >> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >> >> >>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment modules >>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts. >>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>> MANPATH, >>> etc. >>> >> >> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: >> >> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override >> any settings they want to tweak. >> >> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >> >> Joep >> > > I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are integrating > something which some sites or projects might already be using (and > hence are offering it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this case > would not otherwise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think we'd want > to have a lot more scrutiny over a change intended to fundamentally > alter the way user environments are managed. > > So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of others > here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make our time > spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1. > > However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this case > a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user environments are > managed (or that we recommend they be managed.) > > I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no way of > distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which > technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct and > "first class", and those technologies which we integrated simply to > make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we might elect to > steer users and ISVs away from.) But unfortunately at present we have > no framework to provide this information to the people who need it most. > There are several levels: 1) release repository with several levels of support for different software in repository 2) contrib repository I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib repository at first, to see how many users they have? Best regards, Milan From gdamore@sun.com Mon Aug 24 08:16:35 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OFGYQo018549 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OFGWYO020903 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:16:33 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOV0000DZRK8N00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOV00FAYZRJ4SF0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OFGV1U024789 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOV00200ZLD2K00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOV0048HZRIN5F0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:16:30 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Milan.Jurik@sun.com Cc: Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <4A92AECE.5050903@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Content-Length: 614 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000010 Milan Jurik wrote: > >> > > There are several levels: > > 1) release repository with several levels of support for different > software in repository > > 2) contrib repository > > I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I > cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). > > Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib repository > at first, to see how many users they have? > > Best regards, > > Milan /contrib would be a much, much better place for some of this stuff. We do *not* need to integrate the entire universe into SFW, IMO. - Garrett From Sebastien.Roy@sun.com Mon Aug 24 08:19:23 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OFJNgm018626 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OFJNqY004161 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOV00L1NZWA1400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOV00J7KZW73WB0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-10.sun.com ([192.18.109.80]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OFJJGF019883 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:19:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOV00300YK4E800@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.148.174.103] ([unknown] [129.148.174.103]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOV00J76ZVVUO30@mail-amer.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:17:15 -0400 From: Sebastien Roy Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> Sender: Sebastien.Roy@sun.com To: Milan.Jurik@sun.com Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <1251127035.25070.49.camel@strat> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 399 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000011 On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 17:09 +0200, Milan Jurik wrote: > I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I cannot > identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). > > Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib repository > at first, to see how many users they have? They can, and they likely should. Did the project team consider that option? -Seb From Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com Mon Aug 24 08:51:20 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OFpKiL020532 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OFpCTH031738 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW00N031DJ1000@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW00LJU1D6YY20@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OFp6iL022972 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW0000013K1Z00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW0053K1D5DG80@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:05 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A8F07F7.BD16E14E@nrubsig.org> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com To: Roland Mainz Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <43B8C455-4C73-45F5-A698-F8715311BE16@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QeXRCSO6VbRBa69INmmdtw)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A8F07F7.BD16E14E@nrubsig.org> Content-Length: 6625 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000012 --Boundary_(ID_QeXRCSO6VbRBa69INmmdtw) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It creates a copy of the .(dot) files of the user. The original are backed up for restoration later. The new copies have the modulefiles additions and changes added to them and then the new shell is started for the caller. Bruce On Aug 21, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Roland Mainz wrote: > John Fischer wrote: >> >> PSARC, >> >> I am sponsoring this project for Bruce Rothermal who will be >> integrating >> this project via the SFW consolidation. I have set the timer for >> Friday, >> August 28th. The case directory contains this proposal, FOSS check >> list, >> and appropriate man pages. >> >> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >> modules >> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >> scripts. >> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >> MANPATH, >> etc. > [snip] >> 4. Technical Description: >> >> The environment modules package provides for an easy dynamic >> modification of a user's environment via modulefiles. which >> typically instruct the module command to alter or set shell >> environment variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. > > How does this work ? AFAIK the shells have no API which allow another > process to just write or override the values of shell-internal > values ? > Or is it expected that existing commands in /usr/bin/ are replaced > with > the "module" wrapper and then select a matching binariy from { > /usr/gnu/bin/, /usr/oldsystemvcmd/bin/, /usr/bsd/bin/ etc. } ? > > ---- > > Bye, > Roland > > -- > __ . . __ > (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org > \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer > /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 > (;O/ \/ \O;) --Boundary_(ID_QeXRCSO6VbRBa69INmmdtw) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=1.jpg; x-unix-mode=0644 Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=1.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/7QA8UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNBAQAAAAA AB8cAVoAAxslRxwCAAACAAIcAhkAC1Bob3RvIEJvb3RoAP/hAEBFeGlmAABNTQAq AAAACAABh2kABAAAAAEAAAAaAAAAAAACoAIABAAAAAEAAABkoAMABAAAAAEAAABL AAAAAP/bAEMAAgICAgIBAgICAgICAgMDBgQDAwMDBwUFBAYIBwgICAcICAkKDQsJ CQwKCAgLDwsMDQ4ODg4JCxARDw4RDQ4ODv/bAEMBAgICAwMDBgQEBg4JCAkODg4O Dg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODv/A ABEIAEsAZAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJ Cgv/xAC1EAACAQMDAgQDBQUEBAAAAX0BAgMABBEFEiExQQYTUWEHInEUMoGRoQgj QrHBFVLR8CQzYnKCCQoWFxgZGiUmJygpKjQ1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFla Y2RlZmdoaWpzdHV2d3h5eoOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4eLj5OXm5+jp6vHy8/T19vf4+fr/xAAfAQAD AQEBAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgv/xAC1EQACAQIEBAMEBwUEBAABAncA AQIDEQQFITEGEkFRB2FxEyIygQgUQpGhscEJIzNS8BVictEKFiQ04SXxFxgZGiYn KCkqNTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqCg4SFhoeI iYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfIycrS09TV1tfY2dri 4+Tl5ufo6ery8/T19vf4+fr/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APT9gzyDg9wKQQHcAcH+tbIi RVK4Yg+gpHhIXaPzxXBSo2R9ROpdmS8B2/d4FNa3yowMA+tbscSBduMk0y5eystJ mu7yeC0tYELyzTSBERRyWJPAAFdkVoYmAbQZzyD2qjDcaZLq1zZQ6lp8t9bgfaLd LlTJDnpvXOVz718h/FX9qyL+1JvDvwpWOaTJSbxDcoPLXHXyI2+9/vtx6A9a+Irr UNXv/E19qt/fXd1f3l0Zbm6D5eV2xmQkck5r2cFlc6sW5aHm4nMYU3aKuftlHbbk yD8uex4FWFtSWA2f41+KujeOfHfgnxDFNaaxrlmBIcXFtdSAY7EqTgj1BFfefwc/ aQ1HUvFdpovxCk05rW6KxWurxR+UY5DwBKBxtbI+YAY78cjarlVWMW4u9t+4qWY0 pNKStc+w1tflHGKd9mPTGPrXTLZ45OQ3pS/YvbnrXmbo9iEdTnUtCU71Zjs+pAY+ ua6FLQHouMDoe9WxZcZYHafSolSO2knocobYH+6PrRXa/wBmJtGYs/UUVKw7PRTl Y87ZlQ5G7Gc0LJlsqCeeA3NPdUWLHLGlgVA2crj3rk9nK9j5vnRJAP32XBOT0Ffm b+2b8etPl+IJ+Fmlz6ibPR23a1HGfLjubhlVkQnqyop6dNx74Ffp9HsDKARxXxr+ 0X+yB4O+J+sar8QdK1i98K+LngD3oSITW1+yqACyZBRyABuU4OOVJ5rooS9lLm6m GJhOpDlgfkRN4veSRktbZIlOdpd+lb2lf8JrqdvG+l2z3EYZUVoY95BPQZ5xmuY8 VeHbrRPF1/bLpk9tZLLsgDMZMY6/MAO+eD0/WvaPgV8J9f8Ai/45uvDek3914Plt tKllN7CjoLiTJMYkUEZXkjcOg9a9ajiqkoOXtbOysu+tradeuvTzOHDZdOpiFR9k 5N+dum+pyDL42jkeKUhWQEur3US7R3J3dBTdG8Xa9o/xIsbTUYJ7lLiQRrGhV/M3 Hb8u0kNyeMV1WpfBf4sX/i6PTYPAGvWl7b5sZ47TTmFvI8ZIDiQDDhhzvzzX6Gfs tfs9XHg+60Kb4i2Hhq41y21U6laRtbiaeJ/KCRqznj5PvKB0LMSScAduIxFalUSp 1eZLrtdWvtv5FYfKpVotzpOn+Nuluh+gHhyzu4/h3oC6gJBfrpluLkOPm8zyl3Z9 85rY+zAj1rYKgpk5z61DwJMc8DmvLhZu59Ao6JGfHAMHaufQ1fgtRIwLLxnFPijU knJx6Ct2xiDBTlcZ4Fbwp3OuKXQqmwZgGwRkelFdrDZb7dWAHvwaK3+r+R0+1S6n xzJrEKxNhwy9jnIqJddgXB4YHp6V+C0/irWYIfs8GrakF/i23LgZ/Oq9v4+8X2R/ 0LxLrlsw6FL2QY/WvC9ry9D5ZuHc/fOHWUmuwPMxjnFX9ZuEuvBF/CHVyYSfvelf hXoPx1+Kek3g8rx34hEfpJN52fYB8ivsHwt8XfHGseAI313XLa7JiUtttFjkDNnA JXA6YzSp05VW7I1denFJ3Ob8Iw2dv+0TqdlqdvbtYedJIxlXcIxuODn2q7pOp6Fp 37TWpeKtMu9Ujtnn8i1UXxtfMDYV2yuDjaDgZ4rmtX8RW1iuro0SvqF2FVWXGMs+ ME9Txz+Fev8AgvwnHPb3U+lXVpa7IkaNrmBJt+CMgkgjkD8a76OXyg07XPXwecqr FU+a1vS/4n2V8KPEmg3Vherb6jNcyvaA3kF5JvbegwJlI6ggjJ65B9a1dAuF1Lxr Pfy4ihtrwrEQQoKggg+/09q+YfGdzbeApNE8aaS9taXxgaLUFtYwiyBiASUHCnCk dO9bXhj4sW8mkzz29zbSSxnfymeWGecY7mvYo4JSTbVtH+JGaZ3Nr2cpX1/A/QOK 4ElpGyuGUr1HemNMu8jjn1r8z/Hf7UHxP0HR5otFm8NWB3HbKbHe2DjGA7EA9TyK +WdW/ab+NmpSypdfEXXbfzf4bTZAo+mxQR+FeXyOnKzMY14SVz924JdqAg/jXSaV MROC2cHr8tfzgXfxd+KBPnp8QvGpmYE7/wC2p8/+hVkP8UviZeJ/pfjrxfIAMDdr E/T/AL6reOJUX8Io4hI/qFjkhaJSy3BOP4FOKK/lsTxz4yWMbfFfidQeeNWmH/s1 FdCx8f5Svrsex5NNlst71jyuVfgn/GtG+1FNmEVSfasZmZlyep6146w/tHofK1K3 KwjuCt5Gz8oDkgmvctG8bNb+FYYWdZkhTOHPytxwMZB49PevAWPzmrsF88Nm8Izs brVUZKlNmUpyZ61DrOoav4igvLh2khjnDgnjccnoPUZH5V9geAPEbaZpNlBLMC8U QMys3BYhiMegUsc8dxXw54b1mxtnga4bb5GXXjPPfj8Aa9a0rxXGL+6uZHcRzKXQ A43DgLn2yMkivqcvkuW97tnnYibv2PcfiT4tfV/DXk27OtusjRSZOd4Azke2Wb3r xPSfE2q6bOkAungONuD90gnpippfFmnukvnTQzQyYPyITsYggN7gHOT3zXk2reIr CeSWSEO8yfICvyqfUqOwzitK1+a7ZtRrq1keu+NPGto/g0Wd3IXuXKsjrwpIJ5/L r+FeIPqWbokNuQDgqeK5S9v7i8dXlldwvChmztFUA7jLqxBB7V4eOqRnK8T0KOJq RWp6AmrYiKlW+bvQNRfZyOOtcpb3m8qJCoz3rVLgrwRgiuRqSOuOJ5jVN+Tg5I4o rHJK8cH8aKn2su43UZzijcyk8/xH+lPd+w4NKn3W/D+VVySZDz3rqSUIWXU8he8x CMsOOtIVGcVIOZOaaOme+az9mnuWhoyrZBrQ+3XTIv8ApEoUDA+btVL+OheJGHvV 004Oy6ikkydnmaUv5rjJ7God5Mm33qUk7gPYU+JVNyoI4JGa6lScppJ9SL2RpWvh rWtQjt3stNurhLl9kDIhIkf+6D6+1ZEltPbrcJNFJDJG+yRHUhkYdQQehr728HWt tpfwI8OXNhBFbzuomZwoP7wA4bnOD7iuP/aE0bSofE+tXsWn2sV1cWCzzSIgBeTI G847+9fp+a+HFCjgfbwqvmSu77axvp8/wPlsHxJUq4h05QVr2Xffr8j4yVsIRWha XLbAjnoflrNX749zUsXDR/72a/HaLcopM+vTtqdCCGUHec0VSLMOhNFRc7FJn//Z --Boundary_(ID_QeXRCSO6VbRBa69INmmdtw) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_QeXRCSO6VbRBa69INmmdtw)-- From richlowe@richlowe.net Mon Aug 24 08:54:40 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OFsZ5j020956 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OFsV1Q034845; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW004051IVV200@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW001RX1IU3I50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (ip123.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.123]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OFgagI000546; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:54:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.12] [160.41.208.12]) by relay13i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-969659; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:54:28 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (relay11i.sun.com [129.179.4.121]) by mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-9369173; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:54:28 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail.pablotron.org ([65.110.45.30] [65.110.45.30]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-14437997; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:53:03 +0000 (Z) Received: from metropolis.int.richlowe.net (c-71-203-212-250.hsd1.tn.comcast.net [71.203.212.250]) by mail.pablotron.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E8F5230C2C6; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:52:19 -0400 From: Richard Lowe Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92AECE.5050903@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Milan.Jurik@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joep Vesseur , Bruce Rothermal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> <4A92AECE.5050903@sun.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (usg-unix-v) Content-Length: 795 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000013 "Garrett D'Amore" writes: > Milan Jurik wrote: >> >>> >> >> There are several levels: >> >> 1) release repository with several levels of support for different >> software in repository >> >> 2) contrib repository >> >> I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I >> cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). >> >> Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib >> repository at first, to see how many users they have? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Milan > > /contrib would be a much, much better place for some of this stuff. > We do *not* need to integrate the entire universe into SFW, IMO. Massive agreement from me. the /contrib repository would be much much better for I think, most of these types of case. -- Rich From Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com Mon Aug 24 08:57:06 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OFv6VS021091 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OFuwVV036038 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW005011N48J00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW0017M1N43L40@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OFv4sv023725 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00F000RW6I00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW005BT1N0DGA0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:56:59 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A8F13BA.F63F4D2E@nrubsig.org> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com To: Roland Mainz Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_MhNezuvIm1CbXT4719jC0g)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A8F13BA.F63F4D2E@nrubsig.org> Content-Length: 8216 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000014 --Boundary_(ID_MhNezuvIm1CbXT4719jC0g) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On Aug 21, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Roland Mainz wrote: > John Fischer wrote: >> I am sponsoring this project for Bruce Rothermal who will be >> integrating >> this project via the SFW consolidation. I have set the timer for >> Friday, >> August 28th. The case directory contains this proposal, FOSS check >> list, >> and appropriate man pages. >> >> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >> modules >> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >> scripts. >> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >> MANPATH, >> etc. > [snip] >> 4. Technical Description: >> >> The environment modules package provides for an easy dynamic >> modification of a user's environment via modulefiles. which >> typically instruct the module command to alter or set shell >> environment variables such as PATH, MANPATH, etc. >> >> Command name Notes >> =================================================================== >> module Link or alias to modulecmd >> modulecmd Command interface to the Modules package. > [snip] >> Imported interface Classification Comments >> ======================= ============== >> =================================== >> /lib/ld.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWcslr >> /usr/lib/libtcl8.4.so Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWTcl >> /lib/libdl.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWcslr >> /lib/libm.so.2 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWlibmsr >> /usr/lib/libX11.so.4 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWxwrtl >> /lib/libnsl.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWcslr >> /lib/libsocket.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWcslr >> /lib/libc.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWcslr >> /lib/libpthread.so.1 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWcslr >> /usr/lib/libXext.so.0 Uncommitted Library provided by >> SUNWxwrtl > > I took a dive in the actual code at > http://modules.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/modules/modules/ to see > how it > works... > 1. ... aren't the shells and their environment files imported > interfaces > too, e.g. shouldn't the list include /usrbin/bash (and ~/.bashrc + > ~/.bash_profile), /usr/bin/ksh (and ~/.profile, ~/.kshrc + ~/.kshrc), > /usr/bin/ksh93 (and ~/.profile,~/.kshrc + ~/.kshrc), /usr/bin/zsh > (erm... I don't know exactly which files zsh uses for startup) etc. ? So should I include all . (dot) files in general. Because it could be argued that any package of software would use the current running ENVIRONMENT just as this one does. > > 2. Please correct me if I am wrong... but does the "modules" stuff > differ between "login shell" and "interactive shell" ? > If I understand the question correctly modules would only effect the interactive shell. modules changes only occur after the login. I don't really see how you could call modules to modify the ENV before the login. > ---- > > Bye, > Roland > > -- > __ . . __ > (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org > \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer > /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 > (;O/ \/ \O;) --Boundary_(ID_MhNezuvIm1CbXT4719jC0g) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=1.jpg; x-unix-mode=0644 Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=1.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/7QA8UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNBAQAAAAA AB8cAVoAAxslRxwCAAACAAIcAhkAC1Bob3RvIEJvb3RoAP/hAEBFeGlmAABNTQAq AAAACAABh2kABAAAAAEAAAAaAAAAAAACoAIABAAAAAEAAABkoAMABAAAAAEAAABL AAAAAP/bAEMAAgICAgIBAgICAgICAgMDBgQDAwMDBwUFBAYIBwgICAcICAkKDQsJ CQwKCAgLDwsMDQ4ODg4JCxARDw4RDQ4ODv/bAEMBAgICAwMDBgQEBg4JCAkODg4O Dg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODv/A ABEIAEsAZAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJ Cgv/xAC1EAACAQMDAgQDBQUEBAAAAX0BAgMABBEFEiExQQYTUWEHInEUMoGRoQgj QrHBFVLR8CQzYnKCCQoWFxgZGiUmJygpKjQ1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFla Y2RlZmdoaWpzdHV2d3h5eoOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4eLj5OXm5+jp6vHy8/T19vf4+fr/xAAfAQAD AQEBAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgv/xAC1EQACAQIEBAMEBwUEBAABAncA AQIDEQQFITEGEkFRB2FxEyIygQgUQpGhscEJIzNS8BVictEKFiQ04SXxFxgZGiYn KCkqNTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqCg4SFhoeI iYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfIycrS09TV1tfY2dri 4+Tl5ufo6ery8/T19vf4+fr/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APT9gzyDg9wKQQHcAcH+tbIi RVK4Yg+gpHhIXaPzxXBSo2R9ROpdmS8B2/d4FNa3yowMA+tbscSBduMk0y5eystJ mu7yeC0tYELyzTSBERRyWJPAAFdkVoYmAbQZzyD2qjDcaZLq1zZQ6lp8t9bgfaLd LlTJDnpvXOVz718h/FX9qyL+1JvDvwpWOaTJSbxDcoPLXHXyI2+9/vtx6A9a+Irr UNXv/E19qt/fXd1f3l0Zbm6D5eV2xmQkck5r2cFlc6sW5aHm4nMYU3aKuftlHbbk yD8uex4FWFtSWA2f41+KujeOfHfgnxDFNaaxrlmBIcXFtdSAY7EqTgj1BFfefwc/ aQ1HUvFdpovxCk05rW6KxWurxR+UY5DwBKBxtbI+YAY78cjarlVWMW4u9t+4qWY0 pNKStc+w1tflHGKd9mPTGPrXTLZ45OQ3pS/YvbnrXmbo9iEdTnUtCU71Zjs+pAY+ ua6FLQHouMDoe9WxZcZYHafSolSO2knocobYH+6PrRXa/wBmJtGYs/UUVKw7PRTl Y87ZlQ5G7Gc0LJlsqCeeA3NPdUWLHLGlgVA2crj3rk9nK9j5vnRJAP32XBOT0Ffm b+2b8etPl+IJ+Fmlz6ibPR23a1HGfLjubhlVkQnqyop6dNx74Ffp9HsDKARxXxr+ 0X+yB4O+J+sar8QdK1i98K+LngD3oSITW1+yqACyZBRyABuU4OOVJ5rooS9lLm6m GJhOpDlgfkRN4veSRktbZIlOdpd+lb2lf8JrqdvG+l2z3EYZUVoY95BPQZ5xmuY8 VeHbrRPF1/bLpk9tZLLsgDMZMY6/MAO+eD0/WvaPgV8J9f8Ai/45uvDek3914Plt tKllN7CjoLiTJMYkUEZXkjcOg9a9ajiqkoOXtbOysu+tradeuvTzOHDZdOpiFR9k 5N+dum+pyDL42jkeKUhWQEur3US7R3J3dBTdG8Xa9o/xIsbTUYJ7lLiQRrGhV/M3 Hb8u0kNyeMV1WpfBf4sX/i6PTYPAGvWl7b5sZ47TTmFvI8ZIDiQDDhhzvzzX6Gfs tfs9XHg+60Kb4i2Hhq41y21U6laRtbiaeJ/KCRqznj5PvKB0LMSScAduIxFalUSp 1eZLrtdWvtv5FYfKpVotzpOn+Nuluh+gHhyzu4/h3oC6gJBfrpluLkOPm8zyl3Z9 85rY+zAj1rYKgpk5z61DwJMc8DmvLhZu59Ao6JGfHAMHaufQ1fgtRIwLLxnFPijU knJx6Ct2xiDBTlcZ4Fbwp3OuKXQqmwZgGwRkelFdrDZb7dWAHvwaK3+r+R0+1S6n xzJrEKxNhwy9jnIqJddgXB4YHp6V+C0/irWYIfs8GrakF/i23LgZ/Oq9v4+8X2R/ 0LxLrlsw6FL2QY/WvC9ry9D5ZuHc/fOHWUmuwPMxjnFX9ZuEuvBF/CHVyYSfvelf hXoPx1+Kek3g8rx34hEfpJN52fYB8ivsHwt8XfHGseAI313XLa7JiUtttFjkDNnA JXA6YzSp05VW7I1denFJ3Ob8Iw2dv+0TqdlqdvbtYedJIxlXcIxuODn2q7pOp6Fp 37TWpeKtMu9Ujtnn8i1UXxtfMDYV2yuDjaDgZ4rmtX8RW1iuro0SvqF2FVWXGMs+ ME9Txz+Fev8AgvwnHPb3U+lXVpa7IkaNrmBJt+CMgkgjkD8a76OXyg07XPXwecqr FU+a1vS/4n2V8KPEmg3Vherb6jNcyvaA3kF5JvbegwJlI6ggjJ65B9a1dAuF1Lxr Pfy4ihtrwrEQQoKggg+/09q+YfGdzbeApNE8aaS9taXxgaLUFtYwiyBiASUHCnCk dO9bXhj4sW8mkzz29zbSSxnfymeWGecY7mvYo4JSTbVtH+JGaZ3Nr2cpX1/A/QOK 4ElpGyuGUr1HemNMu8jjn1r8z/Hf7UHxP0HR5otFm8NWB3HbKbHe2DjGA7EA9TyK +WdW/ab+NmpSypdfEXXbfzf4bTZAo+mxQR+FeXyOnKzMY14SVz924JdqAg/jXSaV MROC2cHr8tfzgXfxd+KBPnp8QvGpmYE7/wC2p8/+hVkP8UviZeJ/pfjrxfIAMDdr E/T/AL6reOJUX8Io4hI/qFjkhaJSy3BOP4FOKK/lsTxz4yWMbfFfidQeeNWmH/s1 FdCx8f5Svrsex5NNlst71jyuVfgn/GtG+1FNmEVSfasZmZlyep6146w/tHofK1K3 KwjuCt5Gz8oDkgmvctG8bNb+FYYWdZkhTOHPytxwMZB49PevAWPzmrsF88Nm8Izs brVUZKlNmUpyZ61DrOoav4igvLh2khjnDgnjccnoPUZH5V9geAPEbaZpNlBLMC8U QMys3BYhiMegUsc8dxXw54b1mxtnga4bb5GXXjPPfj8Aa9a0rxXGL+6uZHcRzKXQ A43DgLn2yMkivqcvkuW97tnnYibv2PcfiT4tfV/DXk27OtusjRSZOd4Azke2Wb3r xPSfE2q6bOkAungONuD90gnpippfFmnukvnTQzQyYPyITsYggN7gHOT3zXk2reIr CeSWSEO8yfICvyqfUqOwzitK1+a7ZtRrq1keu+NPGto/g0Wd3IXuXKsjrwpIJ5/L r+FeIPqWbokNuQDgqeK5S9v7i8dXlldwvChmztFUA7jLqxBB7V4eOqRnK8T0KOJq RWp6AmrYiKlW+bvQNRfZyOOtcpb3m8qJCoz3rVLgrwRgiuRqSOuOJ5jVN+Tg5I4o rHJK8cH8aKn2su43UZzijcyk8/xH+lPd+w4NKn3W/D+VVySZDz3rqSUIWXU8he8x CMsOOtIVGcVIOZOaaOme+az9mnuWhoyrZBrQ+3XTIv8ApEoUDA+btVL+OheJGHvV 004Oy6ikkydnmaUv5rjJ7God5Mm33qUk7gPYU+JVNyoI4JGa6lScppJ9SL2RpWvh rWtQjt3stNurhLl9kDIhIkf+6D6+1ZEltPbrcJNFJDJG+yRHUhkYdQQehr728HWt tpfwI8OXNhBFbzuomZwoP7wA4bnOD7iuP/aE0bSofE+tXsWn2sV1cWCzzSIgBeTI G847+9fp+a+HFCjgfbwqvmSu77axvp8/wPlsHxJUq4h05QVr2Xffr8j4yVsIRWha XLbAjnoflrNX749zUsXDR/72a/HaLcopM+vTtqdCCGUHec0VSLMOhNFRc7FJn//Z --Boundary_(ID_MhNezuvIm1CbXT4719jC0g) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_MhNezuvIm1CbXT4719jC0g)-- From Bruce.Rothermal@Sun.COM Mon Aug 24 08:58:50 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OFwoxE021249 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OFwosL011401 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW0050H1Q0EM00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW001SO1Q03I60@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OFwmgD029180 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00C000Y1B700@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW00B0H1PWJNE0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:58:44 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@Sun.COM To: Joep Vesseur Cc: PSARC-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <8B843D84-58D1-406D-AB9E-9848D1BF794F@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_sY20Ye8/R6aqHa8eYckA2g)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 6245 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000015 --Boundary_(ID_sY20Ye8/R6aqHa8eYckA2g) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This package is needed for a $Supported code project we are working on in HPC. Since we are already porting this for our project we are directed to make the package available to all and also so it is available via the IPS package server on opensolaris.org. Bruce On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:37 AM, Joep Vesseur wrote: > On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: > >> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >> modules >> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >> scripts. >> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >> MANPATH, >> etc. > > I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no > rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: > > Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ > write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine > that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators > (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override > any settings they want to tweak. > > I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for > something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think > there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm > not sure that we build a useful architecture here. > > Joep --Boundary_(ID_sY20Ye8/R6aqHa8eYckA2g) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=1.jpg; x-unix-mode=0644 Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=1.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/7QA8UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNBAQAAAAA AB8cAVoAAxslRxwCAAACAAIcAhkAC1Bob3RvIEJvb3RoAP/hAEBFeGlmAABNTQAq AAAACAABh2kABAAAAAEAAAAaAAAAAAACoAIABAAAAAEAAABkoAMABAAAAAEAAABL AAAAAP/bAEMAAgICAgIBAgICAgICAgMDBgQDAwMDBwUFBAYIBwgICAcICAkKDQsJ CQwKCAgLDwsMDQ4ODg4JCxARDw4RDQ4ODv/bAEMBAgICAwMDBgQEBg4JCAkODg4O Dg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODv/A ABEIAEsAZAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJ Cgv/xAC1EAACAQMDAgQDBQUEBAAAAX0BAgMABBEFEiExQQYTUWEHInEUMoGRoQgj QrHBFVLR8CQzYnKCCQoWFxgZGiUmJygpKjQ1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFla Y2RlZmdoaWpzdHV2d3h5eoOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4eLj5OXm5+jp6vHy8/T19vf4+fr/xAAfAQAD AQEBAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgv/xAC1EQACAQIEBAMEBwUEBAABAncA AQIDEQQFITEGEkFRB2FxEyIygQgUQpGhscEJIzNS8BVictEKFiQ04SXxFxgZGiYn KCkqNTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqCg4SFhoeI iYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfIycrS09TV1tfY2dri 4+Tl5ufo6ery8/T19vf4+fr/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APT9gzyDg9wKQQHcAcH+tbIi RVK4Yg+gpHhIXaPzxXBSo2R9ROpdmS8B2/d4FNa3yowMA+tbscSBduMk0y5eystJ mu7yeC0tYELyzTSBERRyWJPAAFdkVoYmAbQZzyD2qjDcaZLq1zZQ6lp8t9bgfaLd LlTJDnpvXOVz718h/FX9qyL+1JvDvwpWOaTJSbxDcoPLXHXyI2+9/vtx6A9a+Irr UNXv/E19qt/fXd1f3l0Zbm6D5eV2xmQkck5r2cFlc6sW5aHm4nMYU3aKuftlHbbk yD8uex4FWFtSWA2f41+KujeOfHfgnxDFNaaxrlmBIcXFtdSAY7EqTgj1BFfefwc/ aQ1HUvFdpovxCk05rW6KxWurxR+UY5DwBKBxtbI+YAY78cjarlVWMW4u9t+4qWY0 pNKStc+w1tflHGKd9mPTGPrXTLZ45OQ3pS/YvbnrXmbo9iEdTnUtCU71Zjs+pAY+ ua6FLQHouMDoe9WxZcZYHafSolSO2knocobYH+6PrRXa/wBmJtGYs/UUVKw7PRTl Y87ZlQ5G7Gc0LJlsqCeeA3NPdUWLHLGlgVA2crj3rk9nK9j5vnRJAP32XBOT0Ffm b+2b8etPl+IJ+Fmlz6ibPR23a1HGfLjubhlVkQnqyop6dNx74Ffp9HsDKARxXxr+ 0X+yB4O+J+sar8QdK1i98K+LngD3oSITW1+yqACyZBRyABuU4OOVJ5rooS9lLm6m GJhOpDlgfkRN4veSRktbZIlOdpd+lb2lf8JrqdvG+l2z3EYZUVoY95BPQZ5xmuY8 VeHbrRPF1/bLpk9tZLLsgDMZMY6/MAO+eD0/WvaPgV8J9f8Ai/45uvDek3914Plt tKllN7CjoLiTJMYkUEZXkjcOg9a9ajiqkoOXtbOysu+tradeuvTzOHDZdOpiFR9k 5N+dum+pyDL42jkeKUhWQEur3US7R3J3dBTdG8Xa9o/xIsbTUYJ7lLiQRrGhV/M3 Hb8u0kNyeMV1WpfBf4sX/i6PTYPAGvWl7b5sZ47TTmFvI8ZIDiQDDhhzvzzX6Gfs tfs9XHg+60Kb4i2Hhq41y21U6laRtbiaeJ/KCRqznj5PvKB0LMSScAduIxFalUSp 1eZLrtdWvtv5FYfKpVotzpOn+Nuluh+gHhyzu4/h3oC6gJBfrpluLkOPm8zyl3Z9 85rY+zAj1rYKgpk5z61DwJMc8DmvLhZu59Ao6JGfHAMHaufQ1fgtRIwLLxnFPijU knJx6Ct2xiDBTlcZ4Fbwp3OuKXQqmwZgGwRkelFdrDZb7dWAHvwaK3+r+R0+1S6n xzJrEKxNhwy9jnIqJddgXB4YHp6V+C0/irWYIfs8GrakF/i23LgZ/Oq9v4+8X2R/ 0LxLrlsw6FL2QY/WvC9ry9D5ZuHc/fOHWUmuwPMxjnFX9ZuEuvBF/CHVyYSfvelf hXoPx1+Kek3g8rx34hEfpJN52fYB8ivsHwt8XfHGseAI313XLa7JiUtttFjkDNnA JXA6YzSp05VW7I1denFJ3Ob8Iw2dv+0TqdlqdvbtYedJIxlXcIxuODn2q7pOp6Fp 37TWpeKtMu9Ujtnn8i1UXxtfMDYV2yuDjaDgZ4rmtX8RW1iuro0SvqF2FVWXGMs+ ME9Txz+Fev8AgvwnHPb3U+lXVpa7IkaNrmBJt+CMgkgjkD8a76OXyg07XPXwecqr FU+a1vS/4n2V8KPEmg3Vherb6jNcyvaA3kF5JvbegwJlI6ggjJ65B9a1dAuF1Lxr Pfy4ihtrwrEQQoKggg+/09q+YfGdzbeApNE8aaS9taXxgaLUFtYwiyBiASUHCnCk dO9bXhj4sW8mkzz29zbSSxnfymeWGecY7mvYo4JSTbVtH+JGaZ3Nr2cpX1/A/QOK 4ElpGyuGUr1HemNMu8jjn1r8z/Hf7UHxP0HR5otFm8NWB3HbKbHe2DjGA7EA9TyK +WdW/ab+NmpSypdfEXXbfzf4bTZAo+mxQR+FeXyOnKzMY14SVz924JdqAg/jXSaV MROC2cHr8tfzgXfxd+KBPnp8QvGpmYE7/wC2p8/+hVkP8UviZeJ/pfjrxfIAMDdr E/T/AL6reOJUX8Io4hI/qFjkhaJSy3BOP4FOKK/lsTxz4yWMbfFfidQeeNWmH/s1 FdCx8f5Svrsex5NNlst71jyuVfgn/GtG+1FNmEVSfasZmZlyep6146w/tHofK1K3 KwjuCt5Gz8oDkgmvctG8bNb+FYYWdZkhTOHPytxwMZB49PevAWPzmrsF88Nm8Izs brVUZKlNmUpyZ61DrOoav4igvLh2khjnDgnjccnoPUZH5V9geAPEbaZpNlBLMC8U QMys3BYhiMegUsc8dxXw54b1mxtnga4bb5GXXjPPfj8Aa9a0rxXGL+6uZHcRzKXQ A43DgLn2yMkivqcvkuW97tnnYibv2PcfiT4tfV/DXk27OtusjRSZOd4Azke2Wb3r xPSfE2q6bOkAungONuD90gnpippfFmnukvnTQzQyYPyITsYggN7gHOT3zXk2reIr CeSWSEO8yfICvyqfUqOwzitK1+a7ZtRrq1keu+NPGto/g0Wd3IXuXKsjrwpIJ5/L r+FeIPqWbokNuQDgqeK5S9v7i8dXlldwvChmztFUA7jLqxBB7V4eOqRnK8T0KOJq RWp6AmrYiKlW+bvQNRfZyOOtcpb3m8qJCoz3rVLgrwRgiuRqSOuOJ5jVN+Tg5I4o rHJK8cH8aKn2su43UZzijcyk8/xH+lPd+w4NKn3W/D+VVySZDz3rqSUIWXU8he8x CMsOOtIVGcVIOZOaaOme+az9mnuWhoyrZBrQ+3XTIv8ApEoUDA+btVL+OheJGHvV 004Oy6ikkydnmaUv5rjJ7God5Mm33qUk7gPYU+JVNyoI4JGa6lScppJ9SL2RpWvh rWtQjt3stNurhLl9kDIhIkf+6D6+1ZEltPbrcJNFJDJG+yRHUhkYdQQehr728HWt tpfwI8OXNhBFbzuomZwoP7wA4bnOD7iuP/aE0bSofE+tXsWn2sV1cWCzzSIgBeTI G847+9fp+a+HFCjgfbwqvmSu77axvp8/wPlsHxJUq4h05QVr2Xffr8j4yVsIRWha XLbAjnoflrNX749zUsXDR/72a/HaLcopM+vTtqdCCGUHec0VSLMOhNFRc7FJn//Z --Boundary_(ID_sY20Ye8/R6aqHa8eYckA2g) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_sY20Ye8/R6aqHa8eYckA2g)-- From Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com Mon Aug 24 09:05:23 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OG5Neq021851 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OG5Jr8041373 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:05:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW0060120YUP00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW001D220Y3H50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OG5MeS024767 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00K001S06600@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW005PC20UDGD0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:05:18 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3cWZdOX3KFeDUH7XmnlMmA)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> Content-Length: 7679 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000016 --Boundary_(ID_3cWZdOX3KFeDUH7XmnlMmA) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I don't see how providing this method of managing environments would stop someone or interfere with someone using a different package which basically does the same thing. Don't we have numerous different shells which do the same basic functionality but it provides choice to the user? Bruce On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:50 AM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Joep Vesseur wrote: >> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >> >> >>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>> modules >>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>> scripts. >>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>> MANPATH, >>> etc. >>> >> >> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: >> >> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override >> any settings they want to tweak. >> >> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >> >> Joep >> > > I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are integrating > something which some sites or projects might already be using (and > hence are offering it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this > case would not otherwise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think > we'd want to have a lot more scrutiny over a change intended to > fundamentally alter the way user environments are managed. > > So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of > others here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make > our time spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1. > > However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this > case a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user > environments are managed (or that we recommend they be managed.) > > I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no way > of distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which > technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct > and "first class", and those technologies which we integrated simply > to make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we might elect > to steer users and ISVs away from.) But unfortunately at present we > have no framework to provide this information to the people who need > it most. > > -- Garrett --Boundary_(ID_3cWZdOX3KFeDUH7XmnlMmA) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=1.jpg; x-unix-mode=0644 Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=1.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/7QA8UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNBAQAAAAA AB8cAVoAAxslRxwCAAACAAIcAhkAC1Bob3RvIEJvb3RoAP/hAEBFeGlmAABNTQAq AAAACAABh2kABAAAAAEAAAAaAAAAAAACoAIABAAAAAEAAABkoAMABAAAAAEAAABL AAAAAP/bAEMAAgICAgIBAgICAgICAgMDBgQDAwMDBwUFBAYIBwgICAcICAkKDQsJ CQwKCAgLDwsMDQ4ODg4JCxARDw4RDQ4ODv/bAEMBAgICAwMDBgQEBg4JCAkODg4O Dg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODv/A ABEIAEsAZAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJ Cgv/xAC1EAACAQMDAgQDBQUEBAAAAX0BAgMABBEFEiExQQYTUWEHInEUMoGRoQgj QrHBFVLR8CQzYnKCCQoWFxgZGiUmJygpKjQ1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFla Y2RlZmdoaWpzdHV2d3h5eoOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4eLj5OXm5+jp6vHy8/T19vf4+fr/xAAfAQAD AQEBAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgv/xAC1EQACAQIEBAMEBwUEBAABAncA AQIDEQQFITEGEkFRB2FxEyIygQgUQpGhscEJIzNS8BVictEKFiQ04SXxFxgZGiYn KCkqNTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqCg4SFhoeI iYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfIycrS09TV1tfY2dri 4+Tl5ufo6ery8/T19vf4+fr/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APT9gzyDg9wKQQHcAcH+tbIi RVK4Yg+gpHhIXaPzxXBSo2R9ROpdmS8B2/d4FNa3yowMA+tbscSBduMk0y5eystJ mu7yeC0tYELyzTSBERRyWJPAAFdkVoYmAbQZzyD2qjDcaZLq1zZQ6lp8t9bgfaLd LlTJDnpvXOVz718h/FX9qyL+1JvDvwpWOaTJSbxDcoPLXHXyI2+9/vtx6A9a+Irr UNXv/E19qt/fXd1f3l0Zbm6D5eV2xmQkck5r2cFlc6sW5aHm4nMYU3aKuftlHbbk yD8uex4FWFtSWA2f41+KujeOfHfgnxDFNaaxrlmBIcXFtdSAY7EqTgj1BFfefwc/ aQ1HUvFdpovxCk05rW6KxWurxR+UY5DwBKBxtbI+YAY78cjarlVWMW4u9t+4qWY0 pNKStc+w1tflHGKd9mPTGPrXTLZ45OQ3pS/YvbnrXmbo9iEdTnUtCU71Zjs+pAY+ ua6FLQHouMDoe9WxZcZYHafSolSO2knocobYH+6PrRXa/wBmJtGYs/UUVKw7PRTl Y87ZlQ5G7Gc0LJlsqCeeA3NPdUWLHLGlgVA2crj3rk9nK9j5vnRJAP32XBOT0Ffm b+2b8etPl+IJ+Fmlz6ibPR23a1HGfLjubhlVkQnqyop6dNx74Ffp9HsDKARxXxr+ 0X+yB4O+J+sar8QdK1i98K+LngD3oSITW1+yqACyZBRyABuU4OOVJ5rooS9lLm6m GJhOpDlgfkRN4veSRktbZIlOdpd+lb2lf8JrqdvG+l2z3EYZUVoY95BPQZ5xmuY8 VeHbrRPF1/bLpk9tZLLsgDMZMY6/MAO+eD0/WvaPgV8J9f8Ai/45uvDek3914Plt tKllN7CjoLiTJMYkUEZXkjcOg9a9ajiqkoOXtbOysu+tradeuvTzOHDZdOpiFR9k 5N+dum+pyDL42jkeKUhWQEur3US7R3J3dBTdG8Xa9o/xIsbTUYJ7lLiQRrGhV/M3 Hb8u0kNyeMV1WpfBf4sX/i6PTYPAGvWl7b5sZ47TTmFvI8ZIDiQDDhhzvzzX6Gfs tfs9XHg+60Kb4i2Hhq41y21U6laRtbiaeJ/KCRqznj5PvKB0LMSScAduIxFalUSp 1eZLrtdWvtv5FYfKpVotzpOn+Nuluh+gHhyzu4/h3oC6gJBfrpluLkOPm8zyl3Z9 85rY+zAj1rYKgpk5z61DwJMc8DmvLhZu59Ao6JGfHAMHaufQ1fgtRIwLLxnFPijU knJx6Ct2xiDBTlcZ4Fbwp3OuKXQqmwZgGwRkelFdrDZb7dWAHvwaK3+r+R0+1S6n xzJrEKxNhwy9jnIqJddgXB4YHp6V+C0/irWYIfs8GrakF/i23LgZ/Oq9v4+8X2R/ 0LxLrlsw6FL2QY/WvC9ry9D5ZuHc/fOHWUmuwPMxjnFX9ZuEuvBF/CHVyYSfvelf hXoPx1+Kek3g8rx34hEfpJN52fYB8ivsHwt8XfHGseAI313XLa7JiUtttFjkDNnA JXA6YzSp05VW7I1denFJ3Ob8Iw2dv+0TqdlqdvbtYedJIxlXcIxuODn2q7pOp6Fp 37TWpeKtMu9Ujtnn8i1UXxtfMDYV2yuDjaDgZ4rmtX8RW1iuro0SvqF2FVWXGMs+ ME9Txz+Fev8AgvwnHPb3U+lXVpa7IkaNrmBJt+CMgkgjkD8a76OXyg07XPXwecqr FU+a1vS/4n2V8KPEmg3Vherb6jNcyvaA3kF5JvbegwJlI6ggjJ65B9a1dAuF1Lxr Pfy4ihtrwrEQQoKggg+/09q+YfGdzbeApNE8aaS9taXxgaLUFtYwiyBiASUHCnCk dO9bXhj4sW8mkzz29zbSSxnfymeWGecY7mvYo4JSTbVtH+JGaZ3Nr2cpX1/A/QOK 4ElpGyuGUr1HemNMu8jjn1r8z/Hf7UHxP0HR5otFm8NWB3HbKbHe2DjGA7EA9TyK +WdW/ab+NmpSypdfEXXbfzf4bTZAo+mxQR+FeXyOnKzMY14SVz924JdqAg/jXSaV MROC2cHr8tfzgXfxd+KBPnp8QvGpmYE7/wC2p8/+hVkP8UviZeJ/pfjrxfIAMDdr E/T/AL6reOJUX8Io4hI/qFjkhaJSy3BOP4FOKK/lsTxz4yWMbfFfidQeeNWmH/s1 FdCx8f5Svrsex5NNlst71jyuVfgn/GtG+1FNmEVSfasZmZlyep6146w/tHofK1K3 KwjuCt5Gz8oDkgmvctG8bNb+FYYWdZkhTOHPytxwMZB49PevAWPzmrsF88Nm8Izs brVUZKlNmUpyZ61DrOoav4igvLh2khjnDgnjccnoPUZH5V9geAPEbaZpNlBLMC8U QMys3BYhiMegUsc8dxXw54b1mxtnga4bb5GXXjPPfj8Aa9a0rxXGL+6uZHcRzKXQ A43DgLn2yMkivqcvkuW97tnnYibv2PcfiT4tfV/DXk27OtusjRSZOd4Azke2Wb3r xPSfE2q6bOkAungONuD90gnpippfFmnukvnTQzQyYPyITsYggN7gHOT3zXk2reIr CeSWSEO8yfICvyqfUqOwzitK1+a7ZtRrq1keu+NPGto/g0Wd3IXuXKsjrwpIJ5/L r+FeIPqWbokNuQDgqeK5S9v7i8dXlldwvChmztFUA7jLqxBB7V4eOqRnK8T0KOJq RWp6AmrYiKlW+bvQNRfZyOOtcpb3m8qJCoz3rVLgrwRgiuRqSOuOJ5jVN+Tg5I4o rHJK8cH8aKn2su43UZzijcyk8/xH+lPd+w4NKn3W/D+VVySZDz3rqSUIWXU8he8x CMsOOtIVGcVIOZOaaOme+az9mnuWhoyrZBrQ+3XTIv8ApEoUDA+btVL+OheJGHvV 004Oy6ikkydnmaUv5rjJ7God5Mm33qUk7gPYU+JVNyoI4JGa6lScppJ9SL2RpWvh rWtQjt3stNurhLl9kDIhIkf+6D6+1ZEltPbrcJNFJDJG+yRHUhkYdQQehr728HWt tpfwI8OXNhBFbzuomZwoP7wA4bnOD7iuP/aE0bSofE+tXsWn2sV1cWCzzSIgBeTI G847+9fp+a+HFCjgfbwqvmSu77axvp8/wPlsHxJUq4h05QVr2Xffr8j4yVsIRWha XLbAjnoflrNX749zUsXDR/72a/HaLcopM+vTtqdCCGUHec0VSLMOhNFRc7FJn//Z --Boundary_(ID_3cWZdOX3KFeDUH7XmnlMmA) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_3cWZdOX3KFeDUH7XmnlMmA)-- From Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com Mon Aug 24 09:07:19 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OG7IeU021957 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OG7AeZ007770 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:07:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW007092431G00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW001YC2423H50@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OG7EwZ024983 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00C000Y1B700@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW00B4R23TJNH0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:07:01 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com To: Milan.Jurik@sun.com Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_m+Qby1cr+c0o40EfddPmtQ)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 8072 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000017 --Boundary_(ID_m+Qby1cr+c0o40EfddPmtQ) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It has already gone through /contrib and now management wants all the packages which we are going to use in our product to be /release level. Bruce On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:09 AM, Milan Jurik wrote: > Hi, > > On 08/24/09 09:50, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >> Joep Vesseur wrote: >>> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >>> >>> >>>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>>> modules >>>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>>> scripts. >>>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>>> MANPATH, >>>> etc. >>>> >>> >>> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >>> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask >>> anyway: >>> >>> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >>> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >>> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >>> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/ >>> override >>> any settings they want to tweak. >>> >>> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >>> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >>> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >>> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >>> >>> Joep >>> >> >> I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are integrating >> something which some sites or projects might already be using (and >> hence are offering it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this >> case would not otherwise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think >> we'd want to have a lot more scrutiny over a change intended to >> fundamentally alter the way user environments are managed. >> >> So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of >> others here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make >> our time spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1. >> >> However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this >> case a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user >> environments are managed (or that we recommend they be managed.) >> >> I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no way >> of distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which >> technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct >> and "first class", and those technologies which we integrated >> simply to make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we might >> elect to steer users and ISVs away from.) But unfortunately at >> present we have no framework to provide this information to the >> people who need it most. >> > > There are several levels: > > 1) release repository with several levels of support for different > software in repository > > 2) contrib repository > > I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I > cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). > > Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib > repository at first, to see how many users they have? > > Best regards, > > Milan --Boundary_(ID_m+Qby1cr+c0o40EfddPmtQ) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=1.jpg; x-unix-mode=0644 Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=1.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/7QA8UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNBAQAAAAA AB8cAVoAAxslRxwCAAACAAIcAhkAC1Bob3RvIEJvb3RoAP/hAEBFeGlmAABNTQAq AAAACAABh2kABAAAAAEAAAAaAAAAAAACoAIABAAAAAEAAABkoAMABAAAAAEAAABL AAAAAP/bAEMAAgICAgIBAgICAgICAgMDBgQDAwMDBwUFBAYIBwgICAcICAkKDQsJ 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XLbAjnoflrNX749zUsXDR/72a/HaLcopM+vTtqdCCGUHec0VSLMOhNFRc7FJn//Z --Boundary_(ID_m+Qby1cr+c0o40EfddPmtQ) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_m+Qby1cr+c0o40EfddPmtQ)-- From gdamore@sun.com Mon Aug 24 09:07:29 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OG7TUA021974 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OG7SaA015886 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW0000T24GU400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW00LU724FYY40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OG7RpU000169 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00K001S06600@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW005GO24DDGE0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:07:25 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <8B843D84-58D1-406D-AB9E-9848D1BF794F@Sun.COM> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Bruce Rothermal Cc: Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A92BABD.2070405@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <8B843D84-58D1-406D-AB9E-9848D1BF794F@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Content-Length: 1971 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000018 Bruce Rothermal wrote: > This package is needed for a $Supported code project we are working on > in HPC. Since we are already porting this for our project we are > directed to make the package available to all and also so it is > available via the IPS package server on opensolaris.org. Does this mean that we should be scrutinizing this project much more closely? If the project is being put into use as a building block by our own developers, then it is no longer a "familiarity" project, and probably deserves much closer consideration for architectural correctness and completeness. Can you provide more detail about this other project? - Garrett > > Bruce > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:37 AM, Joep Vesseur wrote: > >> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >> >>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment modules >>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts. >>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>> MANPATH, >>> etc. >> >> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: >> >> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override >> any settings they want to tweak. >> >> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >> >> Joep > > > > Bruce Rothermal > Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com > Skype: bruce.rothermal > Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com > > > > From Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com Mon Aug 24 09:08:43 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OG8gZS022022 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OG8fXH014535 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:08:41 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW0000926GW300@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW00LEO26FYW40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OG8d2Y000313 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00K001S06600@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW005X526CDGE0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:08:36 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92AECE.5050903@sun.com> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Milan.Jurik@sun.com, Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Fc/Qpgvse44T+hiW6U5GHQ)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> <4A92AECE.5050903@sun.com> Content-Length: 5621 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000019 --Boundary_(ID_Fc/Qpgvse44T+hiW6U5GHQ) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My opinion also but then you can't sell support for code that is only contributed. Bruce On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Milan Jurik wrote: >> >>> >> >> There are several levels: >> >> 1) release repository with several levels of support for different >> software in repository >> >> 2) contrib repository >> >> I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I >> cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). >> >> Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib >> repository at first, to see how many users they have? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Milan > > /contrib would be a much, much better place for some of this stuff. > We do *not* need to integrate the entire universe into SFW, IMO. > > - Garrett --Boundary_(ID_Fc/Qpgvse44T+hiW6U5GHQ) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=1.jpg; x-unix-mode=0644 Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=1.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/7QA8UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNBAQAAAAA AB8cAVoAAxslRxwCAAACAAIcAhkAC1Bob3RvIEJvb3RoAP/hAEBFeGlmAABNTQAq 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tpfwI8OXNhBFbzuomZwoP7wA4bnOD7iuP/aE0bSofE+tXsWn2sV1cWCzzSIgBeTI G847+9fp+a+HFCjgfbwqvmSu77axvp8/wPlsHxJUq4h05QVr2Xffr8j4yVsIRWha XLbAjnoflrNX749zUsXDR/72a/HaLcopM+vTtqdCCGUHec0VSLMOhNFRc7FJn//Z --Boundary_(ID_Fc/Qpgvse44T+hiW6U5GHQ) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_Fc/Qpgvse44T+hiW6U5GHQ)-- From Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com Mon Aug 24 09:14:54 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OGEssw022330 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OGEsVA001615 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:54 -0700 (PDT) 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Aug 2009 09:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW000NG2GRHN20@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:14:50 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92BABD.2070405@sun.com> Sender: Bruce.Rothermal@sun.com To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QJXFmbsShNvY3zyyb0Hg+g)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <8B843D84-58D1-406D-AB9E-9848D1BF794F@Sun.COM> <4A92BABD.2070405@sun.com> Content-Length: 7290 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000020 --Boundary_(ID_QJXFmbsShNvY3zyyb0Hg+g) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Not much more other than to say that the project involves an automated deployment and management system for large scale grid/cloud computing architecture. It is a component of the HPC Developer community http://opensolaris.org/os/community/hpcdev/ but there are still some contractual agreements in the works so I can not say more. Bruce On Aug 24, 2009, at 10:07 AM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Bruce Rothermal wrote: >> This package is needed for a $Supported code project we are working >> on in HPC. Since we are already porting this for our project we are >> directed to make the package available to all and also so it is >> available via the IPS package server on opensolaris.org. > > Does this mean that we should be scrutinizing this project much more > closely? If the project is being put into use as a building block > by our own developers, then it is no longer a "familiarity" project, > and probably deserves much closer consideration for architectural > correctness and completeness. > > Can you provide more detail about this other project? > > - Garrett >> >> Bruce >> >> On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:37 AM, Joep Vesseur wrote: >> >>> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >>> >>>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>>> modules >>>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>>> scripts. >>>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>>> MANPATH, >>>> etc. >>> >>> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >>> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask >>> anyway: >>> >>> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >>> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >>> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >>> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override >>> any settings they want to tweak. >>> >>> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >>> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >>> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >>> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >>> >>> Joep >> >> >> >> Bruce Rothermal >> Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com >> Skype: bruce.rothermal >> Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com >> >> >> >> > --Boundary_(ID_QJXFmbsShNvY3zyyb0Hg+g) Content-type: image/jpeg; name=1.jpg; x-unix-mode=0644 Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: inline; filename=1.jpg /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/7QA8UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNBAQAAAAA AB8cAVoAAxslRxwCAAACAAIcAhkAC1Bob3RvIEJvb3RoAP/hAEBFeGlmAABNTQAq AAAACAABh2kABAAAAAEAAAAaAAAAAAACoAIABAAAAAEAAABkoAMABAAAAAEAAABL AAAAAP/bAEMAAgICAgIBAgICAgICAgMDBgQDAwMDBwUFBAYIBwgICAcICAkKDQsJ CQwKCAgLDwsMDQ4ODg4JCxARDw4RDQ4ODv/bAEMBAgICAwMDBgQEBg4JCAkODg4O Dg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODg4ODv/A ABEIAEsAZAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJ Cgv/xAC1EAACAQMDAgQDBQUEBAAAAX0BAgMABBEFEiExQQYTUWEHInEUMoGRoQgj QrHBFVLR8CQzYnKCCQoWFxgZGiUmJygpKjQ1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFla Y2RlZmdoaWpzdHV2d3h5eoOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4eLj5OXm5+jp6vHy8/T19vf4+fr/xAAfAQAD AQEBAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgv/xAC1EQACAQIEBAMEBwUEBAABAncA AQIDEQQFITEGEkFRB2FxEyIygQgUQpGhscEJIzNS8BVictEKFiQ04SXxFxgZGiYn KCkqNTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqCg4SFhoeI iYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfIycrS09TV1tfY2dri 4+Tl5ufo6ery8/T19vf4+fr/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APT9gzyDg9wKQQHcAcH+tbIi RVK4Yg+gpHhIXaPzxXBSo2R9ROpdmS8B2/d4FNa3yowMA+tbscSBduMk0y5eystJ mu7yeC0tYELyzTSBERRyWJPAAFdkVoYmAbQZzyD2qjDcaZLq1zZQ6lp8t9bgfaLd LlTJDnpvXOVz718h/FX9qyL+1JvDvwpWOaTJSbxDcoPLXHXyI2+9/vtx6A9a+Irr UNXv/E19qt/fXd1f3l0Zbm6D5eV2xmQkck5r2cFlc6sW5aHm4nMYU3aKuftlHbbk yD8uex4FWFtSWA2f41+KujeOfHfgnxDFNaaxrlmBIcXFtdSAY7EqTgj1BFfefwc/ aQ1HUvFdpovxCk05rW6KxWurxR+UY5DwBKBxtbI+YAY78cjarlVWMW4u9t+4qWY0 pNKStc+w1tflHGKd9mPTGPrXTLZ45OQ3pS/YvbnrXmbo9iEdTnUtCU71Zjs+pAY+ ua6FLQHouMDoe9WxZcZYHafSolSO2knocobYH+6PrRXa/wBmJtGYs/UUVKw7PRTl Y87ZlQ5G7Gc0LJlsqCeeA3NPdUWLHLGlgVA2crj3rk9nK9j5vnRJAP32XBOT0Ffm b+2b8etPl+IJ+Fmlz6ibPR23a1HGfLjubhlVkQnqyop6dNx74Ffp9HsDKARxXxr+ 0X+yB4O+J+sar8QdK1i98K+LngD3oSITW1+yqACyZBRyABuU4OOVJ5rooS9lLm6m GJhOpDlgfkRN4veSRktbZIlOdpd+lb2lf8JrqdvG+l2z3EYZUVoY95BPQZ5xmuY8 VeHbrRPF1/bLpk9tZLLsgDMZMY6/MAO+eD0/WvaPgV8J9f8Ai/45uvDek3914Plt tKllN7CjoLiTJMYkUEZXkjcOg9a9ajiqkoOXtbOysu+tradeuvTzOHDZdOpiFR9k 5N+dum+pyDL42jkeKUhWQEur3US7R3J3dBTdG8Xa9o/xIsbTUYJ7lLiQRrGhV/M3 Hb8u0kNyeMV1WpfBf4sX/i6PTYPAGvWl7b5sZ47TTmFvI8ZIDiQDDhhzvzzX6Gfs tfs9XHg+60Kb4i2Hhq41y21U6laRtbiaeJ/KCRqznj5PvKB0LMSScAduIxFalUSp 1eZLrtdWvtv5FYfKpVotzpOn+Nuluh+gHhyzu4/h3oC6gJBfrpluLkOPm8zyl3Z9 85rY+zAj1rYKgpk5z61DwJMc8DmvLhZu59Ao6JGfHAMHaufQ1fgtRIwLLxnFPijU knJx6Ct2xiDBTlcZ4Fbwp3OuKXQqmwZgGwRkelFdrDZb7dWAHvwaK3+r+R0+1S6n xzJrEKxNhwy9jnIqJddgXB4YHp6V+C0/irWYIfs8GrakF/i23LgZ/Oq9v4+8X2R/ 0LxLrlsw6FL2QY/WvC9ry9D5ZuHc/fOHWUmuwPMxjnFX9ZuEuvBF/CHVyYSfvelf hXoPx1+Kek3g8rx34hEfpJN52fYB8ivsHwt8XfHGseAI313XLa7JiUtttFjkDNnA JXA6YzSp05VW7I1denFJ3Ob8Iw2dv+0TqdlqdvbtYedJIxlXcIxuODn2q7pOp6Fp 37TWpeKtMu9Ujtnn8i1UXxtfMDYV2yuDjaDgZ4rmtX8RW1iuro0SvqF2FVWXGMs+ ME9Txz+Fev8AgvwnHPb3U+lXVpa7IkaNrmBJt+CMgkgjkD8a76OXyg07XPXwecqr FU+a1vS/4n2V8KPEmg3Vherb6jNcyvaA3kF5JvbegwJlI6ggjJ65B9a1dAuF1Lxr Pfy4ihtrwrEQQoKggg+/09q+YfGdzbeApNE8aaS9taXxgaLUFtYwiyBiASUHCnCk dO9bXhj4sW8mkzz29zbSSxnfymeWGecY7mvYo4JSTbVtH+JGaZ3Nr2cpX1/A/QOK 4ElpGyuGUr1HemNMu8jjn1r8z/Hf7UHxP0HR5otFm8NWB3HbKbHe2DjGA7EA9TyK +WdW/ab+NmpSypdfEXXbfzf4bTZAo+mxQR+FeXyOnKzMY14SVz924JdqAg/jXSaV MROC2cHr8tfzgXfxd+KBPnp8QvGpmYE7/wC2p8/+hVkP8UviZeJ/pfjrxfIAMDdr E/T/AL6reOJUX8Io4hI/qFjkhaJSy3BOP4FOKK/lsTxz4yWMbfFfidQeeNWmH/s1 FdCx8f5Svrsex5NNlst71jyuVfgn/GtG+1FNmEVSfasZmZlyep6146w/tHofK1K3 KwjuCt5Gz8oDkgmvctG8bNb+FYYWdZkhTOHPytxwMZB49PevAWPzmrsF88Nm8Izs brVUZKlNmUpyZ61DrOoav4igvLh2khjnDgnjccnoPUZH5V9geAPEbaZpNlBLMC8U QMys3BYhiMegUsc8dxXw54b1mxtnga4bb5GXXjPPfj8Aa9a0rxXGL+6uZHcRzKXQ A43DgLn2yMkivqcvkuW97tnnYibv2PcfiT4tfV/DXk27OtusjRSZOd4Azke2Wb3r xPSfE2q6bOkAungONuD90gnpippfFmnukvnTQzQyYPyITsYggN7gHOT3zXk2reIr CeSWSEO8yfICvyqfUqOwzitK1+a7ZtRrq1keu+NPGto/g0Wd3IXuXKsjrwpIJ5/L r+FeIPqWbokNuQDgqeK5S9v7i8dXlldwvChmztFUA7jLqxBB7V4eOqRnK8T0KOJq RWp6AmrYiKlW+bvQNRfZyOOtcpb3m8qJCoz3rVLgrwRgiuRqSOuOJ5jVN+Tg5I4o rHJK8cH8aKn2su43UZzijcyk8/xH+lPd+w4NKn3W/D+VVySZDz3rqSUIWXU8he8x CMsOOtIVGcVIOZOaaOme+az9mnuWhoyrZBrQ+3XTIv8ApEoUDA+btVL+OheJGHvV 004Oy6ikkydnmaUv5rjJ7God5Mm33qUk7gPYU+JVNyoI4JGa6lScppJ9SL2RpWvh rWtQjt3stNurhLl9kDIhIkf+6D6+1ZEltPbrcJNFJDJG+yRHUhkYdQQehr728HWt tpfwI8OXNhBFbzuomZwoP7wA4bnOD7iuP/aE0bSofE+tXsWn2sV1cWCzzSIgBeTI G847+9fp+a+HFCjgfbwqvmSu77axvp8/wPlsHxJUq4h05QVr2Xffr8j4yVsIRWha XLbAjnoflrNX749zUsXDR/72a/HaLcopM+vTtqdCCGUHec0VSLMOhNFRc7FJn//Z --Boundary_(ID_QJXFmbsShNvY3zyyb0Hg+g) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_QJXFmbsShNvY3zyyb0Hg+g)-- From Milan.Jurik@Sun.COM Mon Aug 24 09:15:14 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OGFDUi022347 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OGFCRQ013579 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:15:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW00F012HCDH00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW002OX2HA8YA0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OGFAVj006099 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:15:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00M002CGGQ00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:14:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.157.16.189] ([unknown] [129.157.16.189]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW002NS2GNC910@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:14:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:14:47 +0200 From: Milan Jurik Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: Sender: Milan.Jurik@Sun.COM To: Bruce Rothermal Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM Reply-to: Milan.Jurik@Sun.COM Message-id: <4A92BC77.3090206@Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_hD0lz92+Ns6d8SGEN4A/iw)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090311) Content-Length: 13728 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000021 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_hD0lz92+Ns6d8SGEN4A/iw) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Bruce, On 08/24/09 18:07, Bruce Rothermal wrote: > It has already gone through /contrib and now management wants all the > packages which we are going to use in our product to be /release level. > OK, then it can make sense but it should be in PSARC materials - the description how it will be used by some additional product. One additional thing - will that additional product be in /release repository or in some other repository? Best regards, Milan > Bruce > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:09 AM, Milan Jurik wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 08/24/09 09:50, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>> Joep Vesseur wrote: >>>> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>>>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>>>> modules >>>>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>>>> scripts. >>>>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>>>> MANPATH, >>>>> etc. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >>>> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: >>>> >>>> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >>>> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >>>> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >>>> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override >>>> any settings they want to tweak. >>>> >>>> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >>>> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >>>> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >>>> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >>>> >>>> Joep >>>> >>> >>> I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are integrating >>> something which some sites or projects might already be using (and >>> hence are offering it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this >>> case would not otherwise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think >>> we'd want to have a lot more scrutiny over a change intended to >>> fundamentally alter the way user environments are managed. >>> >>> So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of >>> others here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make >>> our time spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1. >>> >>> However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this >>> case a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user >>> environments are managed (or that we recommend they be managed.) >>> >>> I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no way >>> of distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which >>> technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct >>> and "first class", and those technologies which we integrated simply >>> to make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we might elect >>> to steer users and ISVs away from.) But unfortunately at present we >>> have no framework to provide this information to the people who need >>> it most. >>> >> >> There are several levels: >> >> 1) release repository with several levels of support for different >> software in repository >> >> 2) contrib repository >> >> I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I >> cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). >> >> Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib >> repository at first, to see how many users they have? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Milan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Bruce Rothermal > Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com > Skype: bruce.rothermal > Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com > > > > --Boundary_(ID_hD0lz92+Ns6d8SGEN4A/iw) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_nlbpKsviGZ8aGEfb+it/gg)" --Boundary_(ID_nlbpKsviGZ8aGEfb+it/gg) Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Bruce,

On 08/24/09 18:07, Bruce Rothermal wrote:
It has already gone through /contrib and now management wants all the packages which we are going to use in our product to be /release level.


OK, then it can make sense but it should be in PSARC materials - the description how it will be used by some additional product. One additional thing - will that additional product be in /release repository or in some other repository?

Best regards,

Milan

Bruce

On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:09 AM, Milan Jurik wrote:

Hi,

On 08/24/09 09:50, Garrett D'Amore wrote:
Joep Vesseur wrote:
On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote:


This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a
Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris).  The environment modules
provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL scripts.
These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, MANPATH,
etc.


I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no
rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway:

 Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/
 write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine
 that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators
 (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override
 any settings they want to tweak.

I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for
something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think
there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm
not sure that we build a useful architecture here.

Joep


I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are integrating something which some sites or projects might already be using (and hence are offering it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this case would not otherwise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think we'd want to have a lot more scrutiny over a change intended to fundamentally alter the way user environments are managed.

So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of others here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make our time spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1.

However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this case a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user environments are managed (or that we recommend they be managed.)

I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no way of distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct and "first class", and those technologies which we integrated simply to make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we might elect to steer users and ISVs away from.)  But unfortunately at present we have no framework to provide this information to the people who need it most.


There are several levels:

1) release repository with several levels of support for different software in repository

2) contrib repository

I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name).

Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib repository at first, to see how many users they have?

Best regards,

Milan





Bruce Rothermal
Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com
Skype: bruce.rothermal
Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com





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Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OGKiok021873 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:20:50 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW0011H2QOKX00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW00L482QNYU80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OGKloB026736 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00F002P4MD00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([unknown] [129.150.241.48]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW000YU2QKHN40@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:20:44 -0600 From: Bruce Rothermal Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A92BC77.3090206@Sun.COM> Sender: bruce.rothermal@sun.com To: Milan.Jurik@sun.com Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_yqds21hanTpsusYuAf/GNg)" X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> <4A92BC77.3090206@Sun.COM> Content-Length: 17619 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000022 --Boundary_(ID_yqds21hanTpsusYuAf/GNg) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Basically you have one large system which is integrating many other systems via middleware. The system must have a way to set environment prior to starting or interacting with other components which have been designed and developed by different groups not under our control. I don't know the answer to whether or not the whole system will be in release or not. Marketing and Management will decide that (above my pay grade), same as all other products that Sun has. Bruce On Aug 24, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Milan Jurik wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > On 08/24/09 18:07, Bruce Rothermal wrote: >> >> It has already gone through /contrib and now management wants all >> the packages which we are going to use in our product to be / >> release level. >> > > OK, then it can make sense but it should be in PSARC materials - the > description how it will be used by some additional product. One > additional thing - will that additional product be in /release > repository or in some other repository? > > Best regards, > > Milan > >> Bruce >> >> On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:09 AM, Milan Jurik wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On 08/24/09 09:50, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>>> Joep Vesseur wrote: >>>>> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules >>>>>> within a >>>>>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>>>>> modules >>>>>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>>>>> scripts. >>>>>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>>>>> MANPATH, >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is >>>>> no >>>>> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask >>>>> anyway: >>>>> >>>>> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to >>>>> read/ >>>>> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >>>>> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by >>>>> administrators >>>>> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/ >>>>> override >>>>> any settings they want to tweak. >>>>> >>>>> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >>>>> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >>>>> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, >>>>> I'm >>>>> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >>>>> >>>>> Joep >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are >>>> integrating something which some sites or projects might already >>>> be using (and hence are offering it as a compatibility/ >>>> familiarity tool), this case would not otherwise be ready for >>>> PSARC to vote on... I think we'd want to have a lot more scrutiny >>>> over a change intended to fundamentally alter the way user >>>> environments are managed. >>>> >>>> So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of >>>> others here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make >>>> our time spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1. >>>> >>>> However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this >>>> case a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user >>>> environments are managed (or that we recommend they be managed.) >>>> >>>> I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no >>>> way of distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which >>>> technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct >>>> and "first class", and those technologies which we integrated >>>> simply to make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we >>>> might elect to steer users and ISVs away from.) But >>>> unfortunately at present we have no framework to provide this >>>> information to the people who need it most. >>>> >>> >>> There are several levels: >>> >>> 1) release repository with several levels of support for different >>> software in repository >>> >>> 2) contrib repository >>> >>> I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I >>> cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). >>> >>> Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib >>> repository at first, to see how many users they have? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Milan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bruce Rothermal >> Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com >> Skype: bruce.rothermal >> Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com >> >> >> >> > Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com Skype: bruce.rothermal Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com --Boundary_(ID_yqds21hanTpsusYuAf/GNg) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_RLW9Ffdhllv9QVQGpnn56g)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_RLW9Ffdhllv9QVQGpnn56g) Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Basically you have one larg= e system which is integrating many other systems via middleware. The = system must have a way to set environment prior to starting or intera= cting with other components which have been designed and developed by= different groups not under our control.

I don't k= now the answer to whether or not the whole system will be in release = or not. Marketing and Management will decide that (above my pay grade= ), same as all other products that Sun has.

= Bruce

On Aug 24, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Milan Jur= ik wrote:

Hi Bruce,
=
On 08/24/09 18:07, Bruce Rothermal wrote:
It has= already gone through /contrib and now management wants all the packa= ges which we are going to use in our product to be /release level. <= br>

OK, then it can make sense but it should= be in PSARC materials - the description how it will be used by some = additional product. One additional thing - will that additional produ= ct be in /release repository or in some other repository?

Be= st regards,

Milan

Bruce

= On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:09 AM, Milan Jurik wrote:

Hi,

On 08/24/09 09:50, Garrett D'Am= ore wrote:
Joep Vesseur wrote: =
On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fisch= er wrote:


This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules = within a
Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris).=   The environment modules
provides an easy modific= ation to a user's environment via TCL scripts.
These sc= ripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, MANPATH, =
etc.

=
I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there = is no
rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm incli= ned to ask anyway:

 Does it really make = sense to force people into being able to read/
 writ= e TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine  that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administ= rators
 (how many of them speak TCL?), but users wil= l have to debug/override
 any settings they want to = tweak.

I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-b= ased configuration tool for
something like this. If the a= nswer is Linux-compatibility, I think
there is enough pre= cedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm
not sure= that we build a useful architecture here.

Jo= ep


I'm fairly co= nfident that *except* in so far as we are integrating something which= some sites or projects might already be using (and hence are offerin= g it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this case would not otherw= ise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think we'd want to have a lot = more scrutiny over a change intended to fundamentally alter the way u= ser environments are managed.

So, as a Linux fami= liarity tool (and I have to take the word of others here that this to= ol really is used by enough folks to make our time spent on this case= worthwhile), I'll give it a +1.

However, I'd hav= e much more grave reservations about making this case a precedent set= ting case for the fundamental way user environments are managed (or t= hat we recommend they be managed.)

I still remain= , at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no way of distinguishi= ng to our users, or to our ISV partners, which technologies we believ= e are fundamentally architecturally correct and "first class", and th= ose technologies which we integrated simply to make us conform more c= losely to Linux (and which we might elect to steer users and ISVs awa= y from.)  But unfortunately at present we have no framework to p= rovide this information to the people who need it most.
=

There are several levels:
=
1) release repository with several levels of support for differe= nt software in repository

2) contrib repository
I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest= , but I cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name= ).

Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go throug= h contrib repository at first, to see how many users they have?
Best regards,

Milan
=


<mi= me-attachment.jpeg>



Bruce Rothermal Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com
Skype: bruce.roth= ermal
Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com =






<= span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; c= olor: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-sty= le: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing= : normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-tra= nsform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -web= kit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adju= st: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">

Bruce Rothermal
Skyp= e: bruce.rothermal 

<= /div>


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Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OGLgCK022353 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:21:44 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW0010F2S7NV00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com ([192.18.6.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW00LC22S5YU80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OGLe5x002757 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:21:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW00L002AV8400@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:21:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [81.187.162.109] ([unknown] [81.187.162.109]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW00B012RLSI00@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:21:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:22:35 +0100 From: Andrew Gabriel Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: <4A8F13BA.F63F4D2E@nrubsig.org> Sender: Andrew.Gabriel@sun.com To: Roland Mainz Cc: John.Fischer@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Bruce Rothermal Message-id: <4A92BE4B.6030805@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A8F13BA.F63F4D2E@nrubsig.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Content-Length: 318 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000023 Roland Mainz wrote: > I took a dive in the actual code at > http://modules.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/modules/modules/ to see how it > works... I found a useful description of the facility here (PDF): http://modules.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/*checkout*/modules/modules/doc/Modules-Paper.pdf?revision=1.1 -- Andrew From gdamore@sun.com Mon Aug 24 09:29:24 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OGTOU9022732 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OGTN73011717 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW00G0734ZPD00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW002K534Y91B0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:29:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OGTMRw002823 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOW006002VOD300@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOW00H7834OX660@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:29:12 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Bruce Rothermal Cc: Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A92BFD8.6070506@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <8B843D84-58D1-406D-AB9E-9848D1BF794F@Sun.COM> <4A92BABD.2070405@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Content-Length: 4045 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000024 Okay, so I believe that this is no longer appropriate for a fast track, at least not under the "familiarity" guidelines. This is *not* a familiarity case, but a case intending to create new architecture for Solaris upon which other projects will build. As such, one of my concerns is the use of Tcl as the *exposed* interface to end-users and administrators. Without picking on Tcl's merits or concerns specifically, one of my major concerns is that this might be the first time that we expect users to have to write Tcl scripts to use the system. I think such a precedent deserves proper review and consideration, rather than sliding in as a familiarity case. Additionally, the exported interfaces must include all of the syntax of the modulefile.4 content. You've not expressed that in the interface table, and I think it has to be included. I do have to say, it seems unfortunate that this project creates a dependency upon Tcl -- modification of user environments is a pretty simple thing to do, and I've done this at other sites using shell scripts or even a very small C program. Bringing in the entire Tcl interpreter (and its dependencies) for something that is so basically simple, seems like not the best engineering choice that could have been made. Especially since many sites might elect not to install Tcl by default. - Garrett Bruce Rothermal wrote: > Not much more other than to say that the project involves an automated > deployment and management system for large scale grid/cloud computing > architecture. It is a component of the HPC Developer community > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/hpcdev/ but there are still some > contractual agreements in the works so I can not say more. > > Bruce > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 10:07 AM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> Bruce Rothermal wrote: >>> This package is needed for a $Supported code project we are working >>> on in HPC. Since we are already porting this for our project we are >>> directed to make the package available to all and also so it is >>> available via the IPS package server on opensolaris.org. >> >> Does this mean that we should be scrutinizing this project much more >> closely? If the project is being put into use as a building block by >> our own developers, then it is no longer a "familiarity" project, and >> probably deserves much closer consideration for architectural >> correctness and completeness. >> >> Can you provide more detail about this other project? >> >> - Garrett >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:37 AM, Joep Vesseur wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>>>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>>>> modules >>>>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>>>> scripts. >>>>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>>>> MANPATH, >>>>> etc. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >>>> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: >>>> >>>> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >>>> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >>>> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >>>> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override >>>> any settings they want to tweak. >>>> >>>> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >>>> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >>>> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >>>> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >>>> >>>> Joep >>> >>> >>> >>> Bruce Rothermal >>> Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com >>> Skype: bruce.rothermal >>> Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > Bruce Rothermal > Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com > Skype: bruce.rothermal > Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com > > > > From roland.mainz@nrubsig.org Mon Aug 24 09:41:18 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OGfHlt022984 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7OGfFoh000233; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:41:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW00A0H3OSYH00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW001ZK3OR3HA0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7OGfF3M007341; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:41:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.12] [160.41.208.12]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-888088; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:41:15 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (relay11i.sun.com [129.179.4.121]) by mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-9486422; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:41:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-12.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.52] [151.189.21.52]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-14561606; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:40:23 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.13]) by mx.arcor.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B751B3A38; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:40:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618972BF971; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:40:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (dslb-094-219-223-167.pools.arcor-ip.net [94.219.223.167]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50EE31AF5D7; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:40:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nrubsig.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiterb48.nrubsig.org (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7OGe8Da002196; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:40:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:40:08 +0200 From: Roland Mainz Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules Sender: gisburn@jupiterb48.nrubsig.org To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Bruce Rothermal , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joep Vesseur Message-id: <4A92C268.9D559D8B@nrubsig.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.11 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 mail-in-09.arcor-online.net 50EE31AF5D7 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <8B843D84-58D1-406D-AB9E-9848D1BF794F@Sun.COM> <4A92BABD.2070405@sun.com> Content-Length: 2416 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000025 Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Bruce Rothermal wrote: > > This package is needed for a $Supported code project we are working on > > in HPC. Since we are already porting this for our project we are > > directed to make the package available to all and also so it is > > available via the IPS package server on opensolaris.org. > > Does this mean that we should be scrutinizing this project much more > closely? If the project is being put into use as a building block by > our own developers, then it is no longer a "familiarity" project, and > probably deserves much closer consideration for architectural > correctness and completeness. Some related questions: 1. Is there _any_ of the major Linux distributions which ships this software ? I couldn't find it in SuSE and RedHat 2. Is it possible that this software is completely outdated, e.g. it seems this stuff completely predates the "invention" of machine-global config files like /etc/ksh.kshrc, /etc/bash.bashrc etc. which are available on Linux since many many years ? 3. What happens if /etc/ksh.kshrc, /etc/bash.bashrc etc. are being used by a shell - does the "modules" stuff just try to override such things (e.g. clear all variables and shell settings and then start to define it's own settings) or can it be modified to just pass-through such "machine-global" settings ? 4. The "modules" stuff touches files of the user which are usually _private_ - did anyone look at this issue from the _legal_ side ? It's Ok if the user manually invokes the "modules" command but you'll be walking in _very_ thin ice if some kind of automated script touches such files without permission of the user. AFAIK Sun's lawyers need to check at least the EU privacy laws and regulations in such a case. 5. IMO the shipping of per-user ~/.profile and ~/.bashrc+~/.kshrc should be _discontinued_ in the future because updating them is impossible in an usefull way and the legal troubles (see [4]) may make this even impossible. That's why SuSE for example no longer installs such per-user files (beyond empty "dummies") and has switched to machine-wide files (e.g. /etc/profile, /etc/ksh.kshrc, /etc/bash.bashrc etc.) to define their "vendor defaults" (and IMO Solaris should do the same). ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 (;O/ \/ \O;) From carlsonj@workingcode.com Mon Aug 24 19:32:27 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7P2WQRA029495 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7P2W2wK011270; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:32:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOW00B05V1ZZ400@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOW005BFV1Z1BC0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7P2OKFL011618; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:32:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6527; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:32:22 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-651034; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:32:22 +0000 (Z) Received: from carlson.workingcode.com ([75.150.68.97] [75.150.68.97]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-114896; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:32:21 +0000 (Z) Received: from [192.168.254.178] (dhcp-178 [192.168.254.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by carlson.workingcode.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7P2WCJH024372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:32:35 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: To: Bruce Rothermal Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , "PSARC-ext@sun.com" , Joep Vesseur , "Milan.Jurik@sun.com" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPod Mail (5H11a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: carlson 1117; Body=5 Fuz1=5 Fuz2=5 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> <4A92AECE.5050903@sun.com> Content-Length: 570 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000026 On Aug 24, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Bruce Rothermal wrote: > My opinion also but then you can't sell support for code that is > only contributed. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > That begs at least two questions: A. Why not? It hardly seems a physical law that support cannot be offered on "contributed" items. 2. How do support plans determine architecture? And probably: III. If there's a larger architecture here, it can't be ignored; it needs to be part of the ARC review (closed if necessary). Has it been described? From storycrafter@gmail.com Tue Aug 25 07:46:21 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7PEkLZn008041 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7PEkEEY000610; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOX00219T15NB00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOX00JK1T0RNU80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7PEbbAW008787; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:46:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-67153; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:46:03 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-12089129; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:45:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-px0-f178.google.com ([209.85.216.178] [209.85.216.178]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1760582; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:40:59 +0000 (Z) Received: by pxi8 with SMTP id 8so6022500pxi.9 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.66.28 with SMTP id t28mr9250654wak.177.1251211113261; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?172.16.202.89? (68-252-106-20.ded.ameritech.net [68.252.106.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm1211249pzk.14.2009.08.25.07.38.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5) ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:38:29 -0500 From: Mark Martin Subject: Re: PSARC 2009/455 Environment Modules In-reply-to: <3ABCF235-A844-4010-ADC0-6651141016F7@sun.com> To: Bruce Rothermal Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, Fritz Ferstl , Manjunath Basappa , Bogdan Vasiliu , Gregory Shirin Message-id: <4A93F765.1060207@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TUnNPMQ9Xhh+Joxw24V68iCZWIInj0DvHklIezexHU4=; b=xuTP2GXfyrThPFj7CSOZJAqS9tM9mzFq1pAYlcueTEl2aQm4PYD4dZ15PzQoyQhmDA e/Wx7Xj8N+hjfAJPZnDNY/ueoVyLMKhUT4PIl+PNgRnZ5lIcBF9KRE+mpz1d2H6wT0Hn Tt6nTPkYjqWSVDXdbOUp7+M1k6Ql/om5fAm2U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aJ0h1C6aejgzDmJa54bbfnC1fjReH28ZvUiOtsXO4BF8MCUa5RaTRB46hNZQZS8GSh +/64UYrK56EiElAJnzmfdaqDMNExhdV5hq3++FuaLJMIq/Q8WvGKIF5gbwL8TR5YppWL lFH1sg1TEaXNWW67o/JneHGn2yTMAHWAvkCV8= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> <20090824161619.GQ1043@Sun.COM> <4A92C79A.1070403@Sun.COM> <20090824171510.GS1043@Sun.COM> <4A930D73.4070904@gmail.com> <1251185033.1505.19.camel@xylabtecra> <3ABCF235-A844-4010-ADC0-6651141016F7@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) Content-Length: 3395 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000027 [I changed the subject and put the case ID back in because I believe Bruce's points and questions related more directly to the case] Bruce Rothermal wrote: > There has been numerous mentions about OpenSolaris vs. Solaris.next > and /release and /contrib. That OpenSolaris belongs to the community > whereas Solaris is controlled by Sun. I really don't much care if this > package is in Solaris but I do need it in OpenSolaris. So from my > experience I only know of this one path offered to get packages into > OpenSolaris's /release repository and that is to go through a Solaris > consolidation. If anybody knows of some other way I would like to hear > it. So far all I'm hearing is a bunch of philosophying. Is there > anything technically wrong or harmful about this package. I have a > task assigned to port this package for a project to create a product > which we intend to sell and make money for Sun. I don't see what the > fuss is. It is a simple layered application which helps the user, > should they want to use this, to manage some environment for a > project. I don't see anything in this that makes it mandatory, > compulsory or in any way changes the Solaris or OpenSolaris > architecture. Nothing about Environment Modules is started > automatically or done hidden. > > So please advise if there is a different process for getting this > package into OpenSolaris /release repository or for that matter how > this simple little application will be destroying the > Solaris/OpenSolaris architecture? For what it's worth coming from an "external" contributor, I'm pretty sure you're safe with the heading you were on. The de-facto standard practice is to target /release for your type of project (Sun funded integration work), and near as I can tell, targetting /release means integrating into a consolidation. I'm not personally happy with some of the particulars of that standard, but I don't think that should or could stop Sun's project teams from continuing to integrate in this fashion. I'm pretty sure you can safely ignore the bikeshedding tangent for now -- I doubt any possible resolution there would be of help to you or your team. The question of where you integrate aside, best I can tell there are four (possibly) outstanding questions relating to your case: 1) Does it introduce a fundamentally new way to manage environments? 2) If so, is this mandatory or merely optional? 3) If mandatory, is this OK as a new Solaris "standard", or is this more like a Linuxism creeping in under the banner of familiarity? 4) If mandatory, is the footprint too big? (i.e. TCL coming along for the ride) I don't deign to say what advice I would give if the answer to the last couple is yes. As I consider that possible answer, concern raises in my mind about possible continued dilution of the Solaris brand, which I'll admit is probably an overreaction and maybe not even a valid architectural concern. I believe the answer to #1 is already clearly "yes". If the answer to #2 is "mandatory", or perhaps "optional, but it should be mandatory!", then you may have something here not completely obvious. If the answer to #2 is clearly "optional", perhaps you can highlight that and I believe #3 and #4 probably fall off the page (and you can probably sail on under the familiarity wind, where many ships have already sailed). From kmcdonald@egenera.com Tue Aug 25 08:09:38 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7PF9cd8028064 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7PF9UA2058215; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:09:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOX0071DU3WL000@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOX002ILU3VKND0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7PF6gYL006449; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:09:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms48es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.230] [160.41.221.230]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-27137; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:09:31 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay42i.sun.com (relay42i.sun.com [192.5.209.72]) by mms48es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-5083624; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:09:30 +0000 (Z) Received: from webaccess.egenera.com ([63.139.209.15] [63.139.209.15]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-566307; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:09:30 +0000 (Z) Received: from webaccess.corp.egenera.com ([10.10.2.15]) by webaccess.egenera.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:09:29 -0400 Received: from [172.23.2.101] ([172.23.2.101]) by webaccess.corp.egenera.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:08:48 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:08:49 -0400 From: Kyle McDonald Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: To: Bruce Rothermal Cc: Milan.Jurik@sun.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Joep Vesseur , "Garrett D'Amore" Message-id: <4A93FE81.8090803@Egenera.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.105sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <4A92464F.2060707@sun.com> <4A92AD3D.7040502@Sun.COM> <4A92BC77.3090206@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2009 15:08:48.0803 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2D74730:01CA2595] Content-Length: 5124 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000028 Bruce Rothermal wrote: > Basically you have one large system which is integrating many other > systems via middleware. The system must have a way to set environment > prior to starting or interacting with other components which have been > designed and developed by different groups not under our control. > > I don't know the answer to whether or not the whole system will be in > release or not. Marketing and Management will decide that (above my > pay grade), same as all other products that Sun has. > Ok. This sounds less and less like familiarity, and more like a dependency for another product. If it's so crucial to this other product interworking well with others outside your control, why not integrate it and ship it with your product, and not with the system? -Kyle > Bruce > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Milan Jurik wrote: > >> Hi Bruce, >> >> On 08/24/09 18:07, Bruce Rothermal wrote: >>> >>> It has already gone through /contrib and now management wants all >>> the packages which we are going to use in our product to be /release >>> level. >>> >> >> OK, then it can make sense but it should be in PSARC materials - the >> description how it will be used by some additional product. One >> additional thing - will that additional product be in /release >> repository or in some other repository? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Milan >> >>> Bruce >>> >>> On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:09 AM, Milan Jurik wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On 08/24/09 09:50, Garrett D'Amore wrote: >>>>> Joep Vesseur wrote: >>>>>> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>>>>>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>>>>>> modules >>>>>>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>>>>>> scripts. >>>>>>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>>>>>> MANPATH, >>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >>>>>> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask >>>>>> anyway: >>>>>> >>>>>> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >>>>>> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >>>>>> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >>>>>> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to >>>>>> debug/override >>>>>> any settings they want to tweak. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >>>>>> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >>>>>> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >>>>>> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joep >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm fairly confident that *except* in so far as we are integrating >>>>> something which some sites or projects might already be using (and >>>>> hence are offering it as a compatibility/familiarity tool), this >>>>> case would not otherwise be ready for PSARC to vote on... I think >>>>> we'd want to have a lot more scrutiny over a change intended to >>>>> fundamentally alter the way user environments are managed. >>>>> >>>>> So, as a Linux familiarity tool (and I have to take the word of >>>>> others here that this tool really is used by enough folks to make >>>>> our time spent on this case worthwhile), I'll give it a +1. >>>>> >>>>> However, I'd have much more grave reservations about making this >>>>> case a precedent setting case for the fundamental way user >>>>> environments are managed (or that we recommend they be managed.) >>>>> >>>>> I still remain, at a fundamental level, unhappy that we have no >>>>> way of distinguishing to our users, or to our ISV partners, which >>>>> technologies we believe are fundamentally architecturally correct >>>>> and "first class", and those technologies which we integrated >>>>> simply to make us conform more closely to Linux (and which we >>>>> might elect to steer users and ISVs away from.) But unfortunately >>>>> at present we have no framework to provide this information to the >>>>> people who need it most. >>>>> >>>> >>>> There are several levels: >>>> >>>> 1) release repository with several levels of support for different >>>> software in repository >>>> >>>> 2) contrib repository >>>> >>>> I tried to find this software in Debian popularity contest, but I >>>> cannot identify package name in Debian (too much generic name). >>>> >>>> Why cannot non-obvious "Linux fam" cases go through contrib >>>> repository at first, to see how many users they have? >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Milan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bruce Rothermal >>> Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com >>> Skype: bruce.rothermal >>> Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > Bruce Rothermal > Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com > Skype: bruce.rothermal > Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-arc mailing list > opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org From gdamore@sun.com Tue Aug 25 08:43:16 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7PFhGGn017578 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n7PFh93K029390 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KOX00B05VO3LJ00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KOX00AHHVO3IB20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n7PFhF33002929 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KOX00000VEB5D00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KOX000GMVO2JI20@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:43:14 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: PSARC/2009/455 - Environment Modules In-reply-to: Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Bruce Rothermal Cc: Joep Vesseur , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4A940692.2060001@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4A8F040A.7060208@sun.com> <4A924324.9010908@Sun.COM> <8B843D84-58D1-406D-AB9E-9848D1BF794F@Sun.COM> <4A92BABD.2070405@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Content-Length: 4167 Status: RO X-Status: $$$$ X-UID: 0000000029 (Resending since it appears that this didn't get to the project team yesterday, possibly due to OpenSolaris.org infrastructure issues.) Okay, so I believe that this is no longer appropriate for a fast track, at least not under the "familiarity" guidelines. This is *not* a familiarity case, but a case intending to create new architecture for Solaris upon which other projects will build. As such, one of my concerns is the use of Tcl as the *exposed* interface to end-users and administrators. Without picking on Tcl's merits or concerns specifically, one of my major concerns is that this might be the first time that we expect users to have to write Tcl scripts to use the system. I think such a precedent deserves proper review and consideration, rather than sliding in as a familiarity case. Additionally, the exported interfaces must include all of the syntax of the modulefile.4 content. You've not expressed that in the interface table, and I think it has to be included. I do have to say, it seems unfortunate that this project creates a dependency upon Tcl -- modification of user environments is a pretty simple thing to do, and I've done this at other sites using shell scripts or even a very small C program. Bringing in the entire Tcl interpreter (and its dependencies) for something that is so basically simple, seems like not the best engineering choice that could have been made. Especially since many sites might elect not to install Tcl by default. - Garrett Bruce Rothermal wrote: > Not much more other than to say that the project involves an automated > deployment and management system for large scale grid/cloud computing > architecture. It is a component of the HPC Developer community > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/hpcdev/ but there are still some > contractual agreements in the works so I can not say more. > > Bruce > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 10:07 AM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > >> Bruce Rothermal wrote: >>> This package is needed for a $Supported code project we are working >>> on in HPC. Since we are already porting this for our project we are >>> directed to make the package available to all and also so it is >>> available via the IPS package server on opensolaris.org. >> >> Does this mean that we should be scrutinizing this project much more >> closely? If the project is being put into use as a building block by >> our own developers, then it is no longer a "familiarity" project, and >> probably deserves much closer consideration for architectural >> correctness and completeness. >> >> Can you provide more detail about this other project? >> >> - Garrett >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:37 AM, Joep Vesseur wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/21/09 22:31, John Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>>> This project proposes to integrate the Environment Modules within a >>>>> Minor release of Solaris (i.e., Open Solaris). The environment >>>>> modules >>>>> provides an easy modification to a user's environment via TCL >>>>> scripts. >>>>> These scripts set various environmental variables such as PATH, >>>>> MANPATH, >>>>> etc. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure my remarks make any PSARC sense, but since there is no >>>> rationale mentioned for integrating this, I'm inclined to ask anyway: >>>> >>>> Does it really make sense to force people into being able to read/ >>>> write TCL in order for them to configure their shell? I imagine >>>> that most of the modulefile(4)s would be written by administrators >>>> (how many of them speak TCL?), but users will have to debug/override >>>> any settings they want to tweak. >>>> >>>> I'm just wondering why we pick a TCL-based configuration tool for >>>> something like this. If the answer is Linux-compatibility, I think >>>> there is enough precedent, whether I like it or not. Otherwise, I'm >>>> not sure that we build a useful architecture here. >>>> >>>> Joep >>> >>> >>> >>> Bruce Rothermal >>> Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com >>> Skype: bruce.rothermal >>> Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > Bruce Rothermal > Email: bruce.rothermal@sun.com > Skype: bruce.rothermal > Google Talk: bruce.rothermal@gmail.com > > > >