From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 14:55:21 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8ALtLOU001124; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8ALtLMN015595; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPR00I5DZK9CL00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPR00FVMZK8BQ40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8ALtKkZ009018; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPR00C00ZHAIE00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPR00GEZZK6TZF0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:18 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 5268 I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). This case is submitted to PSARC, as the traditional arbiter of the Solaris filesystem layout, but cc'ed to LSARC, as it affects cases that LSARC reviews. -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Alan Coopersmith 1.3 Date of This Document: 10 September, 2009 4. Technical Description History: -------- Historically Solaris delivered the X Window System software in the /usr/openwin hierarchy, with subdirs mirroring /usr - /usr/openwin/lib, /usr/openwin/bin, etc. ASARC/1996/268 noted that the differing install locations made it hard for users to compile software written for other platforms, so created symlinks from /usr/lib to /usr/openwin/lib, and /usr/include/X11 to /usr/openwin/include/X11, for the public libraries & headers. (It notes "From the customers that I have dealt with, they feel like *all* APIs belong in /usr/lib, /usr/include, and that Sun was just annoying and foolish for being different." but it took many years for Sun to take that advice to heart.) PSARC 2004/187 established /usr/X11 as the hierarchy for the X Window System software on Solaris, and began to phase out /usr/openwin. PSARC 2008/405 case declared /usr/openwin as Obsolete and removed the /usr/openwin hierarchy from the filesystem, leaving a symbolic link to /usr/X11 in its place for backwards compatibility. Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are now discouraged for commonly-used software. Change: ------- This case declares /usr/X11 as Obsolete and allows any files currently delivered there to be delivered to the equivalent location under /usr. Moves of individual files may be considered ARC Self-Review, with a patch release binding, and not require ARC cases as long as they follow these rules: - Symbolic links from the /usr/X11 locations to the /usr locations must be delivered for any public interfaces. - Delivery to the normal Solaris locations, following the guidelines of the "Recommended Installation Locations for Solaris-compatible Software Components" ARC Best Practice document and this case. Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: Previous location: New location: /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin /usr/X11/include /usr/include /usr/X11/lib /usr/lib /usr/X11/lib/modules /usr/lib/xorg/modules /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults /usr/share/X11/app-defaults /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts /usr/share/fonts /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb /usr/share/X11/xkb /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver /usr/lib/xorg /usr/X11/share /usr/share /usr/X11/share/man /usr/share/man A future case may remove the /usr/X11 hierarchy completely, and leave a single /usr/X11 -> /usr symlink, as 2008/405 did for /usr/openwin, but there are many dependencies to resolve first. The /etc/X11 directory is not affected by this case, and will remain as-is. Rationale/Discussion: --------------------- We've had links from /usr/lib to /usr/X11/lib for the libraries since Solaris 2.6, so they'd be in the default path and not require -L or -R at build time, for easier compiling, so that would just replace the links with the real libraries. The programs and man pages would move into the same directories as gnome and the rest of the system, instead of being off in their own world, and one of the last parts of the system left in a separate subhierarchy of the filesystem. Having a separate /usr/X11R5 or /usr/X11R6 made more sense in the days when those were built and installed from a single source tree, so if you wanted a different version or a customized version, you built the entire window system and replaced the entire directory. And when we shipped SPARCstation 1's with 105Mb hard disks, being able to put /usr/openwin on a separate partition (local or remote) was crucial. But today, it just makes X different and harder to find and use. Since the LSB/FHS only allowed /usr/X11R6 as an exception to their "everything under /usr, not /usr/foo" rule, when the Linux distros moved to X11R7, they moved X into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. Since X11R7 was also the release in which we split the X source tree from one monolithic build into individual releases/builds of each library, program, driver, font set, or other module, that wasn't a problem for customizers, since they'd only be replacing xterm or their video driver or some other program or library, not the entire window system. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: X 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 14:55:21 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8ALtLOU001124; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8ALtLMN015595; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPR00I5DZK9CL00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPR00FVMZK8BQ40@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8ALtKkZ009018; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPR00C00ZHAIE00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPR00GEZZK6TZF0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:18 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 5268 I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). This case is submitted to PSARC, as the traditional arbiter of the Solaris filesystem layout, but cc'ed to LSARC, as it affects cases that LSARC reviews. -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Alan Coopersmith 1.3 Date of This Document: 10 September, 2009 4. Technical Description History: -------- Historically Solaris delivered the X Window System software in the /usr/openwin hierarchy, with subdirs mirroring /usr - /usr/openwin/lib, /usr/openwin/bin, etc. ASARC/1996/268 noted that the differing install locations made it hard for users to compile software written for other platforms, so created symlinks from /usr/lib to /usr/openwin/lib, and /usr/include/X11 to /usr/openwin/include/X11, for the public libraries & headers. (It notes "From the customers that I have dealt with, they feel like *all* APIs belong in /usr/lib, /usr/include, and that Sun was just annoying and foolish for being different." but it took many years for Sun to take that advice to heart.) PSARC 2004/187 established /usr/X11 as the hierarchy for the X Window System software on Solaris, and began to phase out /usr/openwin. PSARC 2008/405 case declared /usr/openwin as Obsolete and removed the /usr/openwin hierarchy from the filesystem, leaving a symbolic link to /usr/X11 in its place for backwards compatibility. Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are now discouraged for commonly-used software. Change: ------- This case declares /usr/X11 as Obsolete and allows any files currently delivered there to be delivered to the equivalent location under /usr. Moves of individual files may be considered ARC Self-Review, with a patch release binding, and not require ARC cases as long as they follow these rules: - Symbolic links from the /usr/X11 locations to the /usr locations must be delivered for any public interfaces. - Delivery to the normal Solaris locations, following the guidelines of the "Recommended Installation Locations for Solaris-compatible Software Components" ARC Best Practice document and this case. Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: Previous location: New location: /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin /usr/X11/include /usr/include /usr/X11/lib /usr/lib /usr/X11/lib/modules /usr/lib/xorg/modules /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults /usr/share/X11/app-defaults /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts /usr/share/fonts /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb /usr/share/X11/xkb /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver /usr/lib/xorg /usr/X11/share /usr/share /usr/X11/share/man /usr/share/man A future case may remove the /usr/X11 hierarchy completely, and leave a single /usr/X11 -> /usr symlink, as 2008/405 did for /usr/openwin, but there are many dependencies to resolve first. The /etc/X11 directory is not affected by this case, and will remain as-is. Rationale/Discussion: --------------------- We've had links from /usr/lib to /usr/X11/lib for the libraries since Solaris 2.6, so they'd be in the default path and not require -L or -R at build time, for easier compiling, so that would just replace the links with the real libraries. The programs and man pages would move into the same directories as gnome and the rest of the system, instead of being off in their own world, and one of the last parts of the system left in a separate subhierarchy of the filesystem. Having a separate /usr/X11R5 or /usr/X11R6 made more sense in the days when those were built and installed from a single source tree, so if you wanted a different version or a customized version, you built the entire window system and replaced the entire directory. And when we shipped SPARCstation 1's with 105Mb hard disks, being able to put /usr/openwin on a separate partition (local or remote) was crucial. But today, it just makes X different and harder to find and use. Since the LSB/FHS only allowed /usr/X11R6 as an exception to their "everything under /usr, not /usr/foo" rule, when the Linux distros moved to X11R7, they moved X into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. Since X11R7 was also the release in which we split the X source tree from one monolithic build into individual releases/builds of each library, program, driver, font set, or other module, that wasn't a problem for customizers, since they'd only be replacing xterm or their video driver or some other program or library, not the entire window system. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: X 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:05:44 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AM5iRF010422; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AM5fax021762; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00D0L01IH700@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:05:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00A0V01HP520@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8ALwTQG007244; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.232] [160.41.221.232]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-853518; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:40 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay45i.sun.com (relay45i.sun.com [192.5.209.94]) by mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3689423; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:33 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2092188; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:33 +0000 (Z) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so567596ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.60.13 with SMTP id i13mr1608144eba.8.1252620332392; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:05:32 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-1.1/5.0, scanned in 0.138sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AM5iRF010422 Status: RO Content-Length: 6106 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, > and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for > OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). > > This case is submitted to PSARC, as the traditional arbiter of the Solaris > filesystem layout, but cc'ed to LSARC, as it affects cases that LSARC reviews. > >        -Alan Coopersmith-           alan.coopersmith@sun.com >         Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI > This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction >    1.1. Project/Component Working Name: >         Obsolescence of /usr/X11 >    1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: >         Author:  Alan Coopersmith >    1.3  Date of This Document: >        10 September, 2009 > 4. Technical Description > > History: > -------- > > Historically Solaris delivered the X Window System software in the > /usr/openwin hierarchy, with subdirs mirroring /usr - /usr/openwin/lib, > /usr/openwin/bin, etc. > > ASARC/1996/268 noted that the differing install locations made it hard > for users to compile software written for other platforms, so created > symlinks from /usr/lib to /usr/openwin/lib, and /usr/include/X11 to > /usr/openwin/include/X11, for the public libraries & headers. > (It notes "From the customers that I have dealt with, they feel like > *all* APIs belong in /usr/lib, /usr/include, and that Sun was just > annoying and foolish for being different." but it took many years > for Sun to take that advice to heart.) > > PSARC 2004/187 established /usr/X11 as the hierarchy for the X Window > System software on Solaris, and began to phase out /usr/openwin. > > PSARC 2008/405 case declared /usr/openwin as Obsolete and removed the > /usr/openwin hierarchy from the filesystem, leaving a symbolic > link to /usr/X11 in its place for backwards compatibility. > > Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are > now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries > on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are > now discouraged for commonly-used software. > > > Change: > ------- > > This case declares /usr/X11 as Obsolete and allows any files currently > delivered there to be delivered to the equivalent location under /usr. > Moves of individual files may be considered ARC Self-Review, with a patch > release binding, and not require ARC cases as long as they follow these > rules: > >  - Symbolic links from the /usr/X11 locations to the /usr locations >    must be delivered for any public interfaces. > >  - Delivery to the normal Solaris locations, following the guidelines >    of the "Recommended Installation Locations for Solaris-compatible >    Software Components" ARC Best Practice document and this case. > >    Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > >    Previous location:                  New location: >     /usr/X11/bin                        /usr/bin >     /usr/X11/demo                       /usr/bin >     /usr/X11/include                    /usr/include >     /usr/X11/lib                        /usr/lib >     /usr/X11/lib/modules                /usr/lib/xorg/modules >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults       /usr/share/X11/app-defaults >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts              /usr/share/fonts >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb                /usr/share/X11/xkb >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver            /usr/lib/xorg >     /usr/X11/share                      /usr/share >     /usr/X11/share/man                  /usr/share/man > > A future case may remove the /usr/X11 hierarchy completely, and leave > a single /usr/X11 -> /usr symlink, as 2008/405 did for /usr/openwin, > but there are many dependencies to resolve first. > > The /etc/X11 directory is not affected by this case, and will remain as-is. > > > Rationale/Discussion: > --------------------- > > We've had links from /usr/lib to /usr/X11/lib for the libraries since > Solaris 2.6, so they'd be in the default path and not require -L or -R > at build time, for easier compiling, so that would just replace the > links with the real libraries. > > The programs and man pages would move into the same directories as gnome > and the rest of the system, instead of being off in their own world, and > one of the last parts of the system left in a separate subhierarchy of the > filesystem. > > Having a separate /usr/X11R5 or /usr/X11R6 made more sense in the days > when those were built and installed from a single source tree, so if you > wanted a different version or a customized version, you built the entire > window system and replaced the entire directory.   And when we shipped > SPARCstation 1's with 105Mb hard disks, being able to put /usr/openwin > on a separate partition (local or remote) was crucial. > > But today, it just makes X different and harder to find and use. > Since the LSB/FHS only allowed /usr/X11R6 as an exception to their > "everything under /usr, not /usr/foo" rule, when the Linux distros > moved to X11R7, they moved X into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc.   Since > X11R7 was also the release in which we split the X source tree from > one monolithic build into individual releases/builds of each library, > program, driver, font set, or other module, that wasn't a problem for > customizers, since they'd only be replacing xterm or their video driver > or some other program or library, not the entire window system. > > > 6. Resources and Schedule >    6.4. Steering Committee requested information >        6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: >                X >    6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack >    6.6. ARC Exposure: open Bold migration, Alan. Nice. I guess only the pkgdefs will be changed? Or are there plans to one day incorporate xwin into the OS/Net consolidation gate? Probably not. Too much speaks against this. But in theory it could be done. Based on what criteria have previous decisions (maybe of less scale) been made? By whom? %martin From gdamore@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:06:47 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AM6l30012939; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AM6kdw016934; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00D0J039JL00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00AJJ038OW20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AM6ihM010263; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPR00500ZYRR100@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00F65037Q460@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:43 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4AA97873.4030508@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 5692 Once getting past the initial shock (okay, I've lived with /usr/X11 for a *really* long time now!), the case seems straight-forward and obvious. +1. - Garrett Alan Coopersmith wrote: > I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, > and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for > OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). > > This case is submitted to PSARC, as the traditional arbiter of the Solaris > filesystem layout, but cc'ed to LSARC, as it affects cases that LSARC reviews. > > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com > Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI > This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > Obsolescence of /usr/X11 > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Alan Coopersmith > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 10 September, 2009 > 4. Technical Description > > History: > -------- > > Historically Solaris delivered the X Window System software in the > /usr/openwin hierarchy, with subdirs mirroring /usr - /usr/openwin/lib, > /usr/openwin/bin, etc. > > ASARC/1996/268 noted that the differing install locations made it hard > for users to compile software written for other platforms, so created > symlinks from /usr/lib to /usr/openwin/lib, and /usr/include/X11 to > /usr/openwin/include/X11, for the public libraries & headers. > (It notes "From the customers that I have dealt with, they feel like > *all* APIs belong in /usr/lib, /usr/include, and that Sun was just > annoying and foolish for being different." but it took many years > for Sun to take that advice to heart.) > > PSARC 2004/187 established /usr/X11 as the hierarchy for the X Window > System software on Solaris, and began to phase out /usr/openwin. > > PSARC 2008/405 case declared /usr/openwin as Obsolete and removed the > /usr/openwin hierarchy from the filesystem, leaving a symbolic > link to /usr/X11 in its place for backwards compatibility. > > Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are > now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries > on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are > now discouraged for commonly-used software. > > > Change: > ------- > > This case declares /usr/X11 as Obsolete and allows any files currently > delivered there to be delivered to the equivalent location under /usr. > Moves of individual files may be considered ARC Self-Review, with a patch > release binding, and not require ARC cases as long as they follow these > rules: > > - Symbolic links from the /usr/X11 locations to the /usr locations > must be delivered for any public interfaces. > > - Delivery to the normal Solaris locations, following the guidelines > of the "Recommended Installation Locations for Solaris-compatible > Software Components" ARC Best Practice document and this case. > > Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > > Previous location: New location: > /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin > /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin > /usr/X11/include /usr/include > /usr/X11/lib /usr/lib > /usr/X11/lib/modules /usr/lib/xorg/modules > /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults /usr/share/X11/app-defaults > /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts /usr/share/fonts > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb /usr/share/X11/xkb > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver /usr/lib/xorg > /usr/X11/share /usr/share > /usr/X11/share/man /usr/share/man > > A future case may remove the /usr/X11 hierarchy completely, and leave > a single /usr/X11 -> /usr symlink, as 2008/405 did for /usr/openwin, > but there are many dependencies to resolve first. > > The /etc/X11 directory is not affected by this case, and will remain as-is. > > > Rationale/Discussion: > --------------------- > > We've had links from /usr/lib to /usr/X11/lib for the libraries since > Solaris 2.6, so they'd be in the default path and not require -L or -R > at build time, for easier compiling, so that would just replace the > links with the real libraries. > > The programs and man pages would move into the same directories as gnome > and the rest of the system, instead of being off in their own world, and > one of the last parts of the system left in a separate subhierarchy of the > filesystem. > > Having a separate /usr/X11R5 or /usr/X11R6 made more sense in the days > when those were built and installed from a single source tree, so if you > wanted a different version or a customized version, you built the entire > window system and replaced the entire directory. And when we shipped > SPARCstation 1's with 105Mb hard disks, being able to put /usr/openwin > on a separate partition (local or remote) was crucial. > > But today, it just makes X different and harder to find and use. > Since the LSB/FHS only allowed /usr/X11R6 as an exception to their > "everything under /usr, not /usr/foo" rule, when the Linux distros > moved to X11R7, they moved X into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. Since > X11R7 was also the release in which we split the X source tree from > one monolithic build into individual releases/builds of each library, > program, driver, font set, or other module, that wasn't a problem for > customizers, since they'd only be replacing xterm or their video driver > or some other program or library, not the entire window system. > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > X > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > > From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:05:44 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AM5iRF010422; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AM5fax021762; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00D0L01IH700@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:05:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00A0V01HP520@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8ALwTQG007244; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.232] [160.41.221.232]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-853518; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:40 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay45i.sun.com (relay45i.sun.com [192.5.209.94]) by mms49es.mms.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3689423; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:33 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2092188; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:33 +0000 (Z) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so567596ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.60.13 with SMTP id i13mr1608144eba.8.1252620332392; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:05:32 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=-1.1/5.0, scanned in 0.138sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AM5iRF010422 Status: RO Content-Length: 6106 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, > and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for > OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). > > This case is submitted to PSARC, as the traditional arbiter of the Solaris > filesystem layout, but cc'ed to LSARC, as it affects cases that LSARC reviews. > >        -Alan Coopersmith-           alan.coopersmith@sun.com >         Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI > This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction >    1.1. Project/Component Working Name: >         Obsolescence of /usr/X11 >    1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: >         Author:  Alan Coopersmith >    1.3  Date of This Document: >        10 September, 2009 > 4. Technical Description > > History: > -------- > > Historically Solaris delivered the X Window System software in the > /usr/openwin hierarchy, with subdirs mirroring /usr - /usr/openwin/lib, > /usr/openwin/bin, etc. > > ASARC/1996/268 noted that the differing install locations made it hard > for users to compile software written for other platforms, so created > symlinks from /usr/lib to /usr/openwin/lib, and /usr/include/X11 to > /usr/openwin/include/X11, for the public libraries & headers. > (It notes "From the customers that I have dealt with, they feel like > *all* APIs belong in /usr/lib, /usr/include, and that Sun was just > annoying and foolish for being different." but it took many years > for Sun to take that advice to heart.) > > PSARC 2004/187 established /usr/X11 as the hierarchy for the X Window > System software on Solaris, and began to phase out /usr/openwin. > > PSARC 2008/405 case declared /usr/openwin as Obsolete and removed the > /usr/openwin hierarchy from the filesystem, leaving a symbolic > link to /usr/X11 in its place for backwards compatibility. > > Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are > now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries > on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are > now discouraged for commonly-used software. > > > Change: > ------- > > This case declares /usr/X11 as Obsolete and allows any files currently > delivered there to be delivered to the equivalent location under /usr. > Moves of individual files may be considered ARC Self-Review, with a patch > release binding, and not require ARC cases as long as they follow these > rules: > >  - Symbolic links from the /usr/X11 locations to the /usr locations >    must be delivered for any public interfaces. > >  - Delivery to the normal Solaris locations, following the guidelines >    of the "Recommended Installation Locations for Solaris-compatible >    Software Components" ARC Best Practice document and this case. > >    Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > >    Previous location:                  New location: >     /usr/X11/bin                        /usr/bin >     /usr/X11/demo                       /usr/bin >     /usr/X11/include                    /usr/include >     /usr/X11/lib                        /usr/lib >     /usr/X11/lib/modules                /usr/lib/xorg/modules >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults       /usr/share/X11/app-defaults >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts              /usr/share/fonts >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb                /usr/share/X11/xkb >     /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver            /usr/lib/xorg >     /usr/X11/share                      /usr/share >     /usr/X11/share/man                  /usr/share/man > > A future case may remove the /usr/X11 hierarchy completely, and leave > a single /usr/X11 -> /usr symlink, as 2008/405 did for /usr/openwin, > but there are many dependencies to resolve first. > > The /etc/X11 directory is not affected by this case, and will remain as-is. > > > Rationale/Discussion: > --------------------- > > We've had links from /usr/lib to /usr/X11/lib for the libraries since > Solaris 2.6, so they'd be in the default path and not require -L or -R > at build time, for easier compiling, so that would just replace the > links with the real libraries. > > The programs and man pages would move into the same directories as gnome > and the rest of the system, instead of being off in their own world, and > one of the last parts of the system left in a separate subhierarchy of the > filesystem. > > Having a separate /usr/X11R5 or /usr/X11R6 made more sense in the days > when those were built and installed from a single source tree, so if you > wanted a different version or a customized version, you built the entire > window system and replaced the entire directory.   And when we shipped > SPARCstation 1's with 105Mb hard disks, being able to put /usr/openwin > on a separate partition (local or remote) was crucial. > > But today, it just makes X different and harder to find and use. > Since the LSB/FHS only allowed /usr/X11R6 as an exception to their > "everything under /usr, not /usr/foo" rule, when the Linux distros > moved to X11R7, they moved X into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc.   Since > X11R7 was also the release in which we split the X source tree from > one monolithic build into individual releases/builds of each library, > program, driver, font set, or other module, that wasn't a problem for > customizers, since they'd only be replacing xterm or their video driver > or some other program or library, not the entire window system. > > > 6. Resources and Schedule >    6.4. Steering Committee requested information >        6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: >                X >    6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack >    6.6. ARC Exposure: open Bold migration, Alan. Nice. I guess only the pkgdefs will be changed? Or are there plans to one day incorporate xwin into the OS/Net consolidation gate? Probably not. Too much speaks against this. But in theory it could be done. Based on what criteria have previous decisions (maybe of less scale) been made? By whom? %martin From gdamore@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:06:47 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AM6l30012939; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AM6kdw016934; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00D0J039JL00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00AJJ038OW20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AM6ihM010263; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPR00500ZYRR100@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.251.11] ([unknown] [76.93.15.33]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00F65037Q460@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:06:43 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Sender: Garrett.Damore@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4AA97873.4030508@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081201) Status: RO Content-Length: 5692 Once getting past the initial shock (okay, I've lived with /usr/X11 for a *really* long time now!), the case seems straight-forward and obvious. +1. - Garrett Alan Coopersmith wrote: > I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, > and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for > OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). > > This case is submitted to PSARC, as the traditional arbiter of the Solaris > filesystem layout, but cc'ed to LSARC, as it affects cases that LSARC reviews. > > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com > Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.68 02/23/09 SMI > This information is Copyright 2009 Sun Microsystems > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > Obsolescence of /usr/X11 > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Alan Coopersmith > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 10 September, 2009 > 4. Technical Description > > History: > -------- > > Historically Solaris delivered the X Window System software in the > /usr/openwin hierarchy, with subdirs mirroring /usr - /usr/openwin/lib, > /usr/openwin/bin, etc. > > ASARC/1996/268 noted that the differing install locations made it hard > for users to compile software written for other platforms, so created > symlinks from /usr/lib to /usr/openwin/lib, and /usr/include/X11 to > /usr/openwin/include/X11, for the public libraries & headers. > (It notes "From the customers that I have dealt with, they feel like > *all* APIs belong in /usr/lib, /usr/include, and that Sun was just > annoying and foolish for being different." but it took many years > for Sun to take that advice to heart.) > > PSARC 2004/187 established /usr/X11 as the hierarchy for the X Window > System software on Solaris, and began to phase out /usr/openwin. > > PSARC 2008/405 case declared /usr/openwin as Obsolete and removed the > /usr/openwin hierarchy from the filesystem, leaving a symbolic > link to /usr/X11 in its place for backwards compatibility. > > Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are > now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries > on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are > now discouraged for commonly-used software. > > > Change: > ------- > > This case declares /usr/X11 as Obsolete and allows any files currently > delivered there to be delivered to the equivalent location under /usr. > Moves of individual files may be considered ARC Self-Review, with a patch > release binding, and not require ARC cases as long as they follow these > rules: > > - Symbolic links from the /usr/X11 locations to the /usr locations > must be delivered for any public interfaces. > > - Delivery to the normal Solaris locations, following the guidelines > of the "Recommended Installation Locations for Solaris-compatible > Software Components" ARC Best Practice document and this case. > > Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > > Previous location: New location: > /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin > /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin > /usr/X11/include /usr/include > /usr/X11/lib /usr/lib > /usr/X11/lib/modules /usr/lib/xorg/modules > /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults /usr/share/X11/app-defaults > /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts /usr/share/fonts > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb /usr/share/X11/xkb > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver /usr/lib/xorg > /usr/X11/share /usr/share > /usr/X11/share/man /usr/share/man > > A future case may remove the /usr/X11 hierarchy completely, and leave > a single /usr/X11 -> /usr symlink, as 2008/405 did for /usr/openwin, > but there are many dependencies to resolve first. > > The /etc/X11 directory is not affected by this case, and will remain as-is. > > > Rationale/Discussion: > --------------------- > > We've had links from /usr/lib to /usr/X11/lib for the libraries since > Solaris 2.6, so they'd be in the default path and not require -L or -R > at build time, for easier compiling, so that would just replace the > links with the real libraries. > > The programs and man pages would move into the same directories as gnome > and the rest of the system, instead of being off in their own world, and > one of the last parts of the system left in a separate subhierarchy of the > filesystem. > > Having a separate /usr/X11R5 or /usr/X11R6 made more sense in the days > when those were built and installed from a single source tree, so if you > wanted a different version or a customized version, you built the entire > window system and replaced the entire directory. And when we shipped > SPARCstation 1's with 105Mb hard disks, being able to put /usr/openwin > on a separate partition (local or remote) was crucial. > > But today, it just makes X different and harder to find and use. > Since the LSB/FHS only allowed /usr/X11R6 as an exception to their > "everything under /usr, not /usr/foo" rule, when the Linux distros > moved to X11R7, they moved X into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. Since > X11R7 was also the release in which we split the X source tree from > one monolithic build into individual releases/builds of each library, > program, driver, font set, or other module, that wasn't a problem for > customizers, since they'd only be replacing xterm or their video driver > or some other program or library, not the entire window system. > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > X > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > > From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:10:06 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMA5ok022123; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMA0wI025659; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:10:03 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00J0L08Q5500@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00FHF08QBS50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8ALoF0q001160; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1432050; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:02 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4879946; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:01 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3007960; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:01 +0000 (Z) Received: by mail-ew0-f205.google.com with SMTP id 1so570080ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.7.16 with SMTP id 16mr2321816ebg.14.1252620599785; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:09:59 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA97873.4030508@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Alan Coopersmith , xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-ext@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA97873.4030508@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AMA5ok022123 Status: RO Content-Length: 389 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Once getting past the initial shock (okay, I've lived with /usr/X11 for a > *really* long time now!), the case seems straight-forward and obvious.  +1. > >   - Garrett Yes, at first it was a scary feeling. But after having thought about it a few times, it may not be a bad idea. (Therefore my +1) -- %martin From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:10:06 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMA5ok022123; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMA0wI025659; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:10:03 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00J0L08Q5500@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00FHF08QBS50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8ALoF0q001160; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1432050; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:02 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4879946; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:01 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3007960; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:10:01 +0000 (Z) Received: by mail-ew0-f205.google.com with SMTP id 1so570080ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.7.16 with SMTP id 16mr2321816ebg.14.1252620599785; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:09:59 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA97873.4030508@sun.com> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Alan Coopersmith , xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-ext@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA97873.4030508@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AMA5ok022123 Status: RO Content-Length: 389 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Once getting past the initial shock (okay, I've lived with /usr/X11 for a > *really* long time now!), the case seems straight-forward and obvious.  +1. > >   - Garrett Yes, at first it was a scary feeling. But after having thought about it a few times, it may not be a bad idea. (Therefore my +1) -- %martin From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:11:45 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMBjLh027507; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8AMBjXO023612; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00J030BL9L00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00FH20BKBT50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMBiHF010768; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00E000BKZ300@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00F250BKQ480@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Martin Bochnig Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 958 Martin Bochnig wrote: > I guess only the pkgdefs will be changed? Yes. > Or are there plans to one > day incorporate xwin into the OS/Net consolidation gate? Probably not. Not even remotely considering it, but that's completely unrelated - there's already many consolidations delivering files to /usr/bin & /usr/lib, ON is in the minority there - some are already from X (the existing symlinks noted, the files for freetype & fontconfig). > Too much speaks against this. But in theory it could be done. Based on > what criteria have previous decisions (maybe of less scale) been made? > By whom? Merging consolidations? By the people who would be doing the work and responsible for maintaining it. The criteria here would be "Does it make sense?" and the answer is clearly no - the cost would be too high, the benefit non-existent. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:11:45 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMBjLh027507; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8AMBjXO023612; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00J030BL9L00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00FH20BKBT50@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMBiHF010768; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00E000BKZ300@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00F250BKQ480@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:11:44 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Martin Bochnig Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 958 Martin Bochnig wrote: > I guess only the pkgdefs will be changed? Yes. > Or are there plans to one > day incorporate xwin into the OS/Net consolidation gate? Probably not. Not even remotely considering it, but that's completely unrelated - there's already many consolidations delivering files to /usr/bin & /usr/lib, ON is in the minority there - some are already from X (the existing symlinks noted, the files for freetype & fontconfig). > Too much speaks against this. But in theory it could be done. Based on > what criteria have previous decisions (maybe of less scale) been made? > By whom? Merging consolidations? By the people who would be doing the work and responsible for maintaining it. The criteria here would be "Does it make sense?" and the answer is clearly no - the cost would be too high, the benefit non-existent. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:26:33 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMQWVk020003; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMQShJ004743; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:26:29 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00K031059N00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00FNL104BL70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMIRPn021879; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1433268; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4897597; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3026523; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:27 +0000 (Z) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so580678ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.172.16 with SMTP id z16mr2367999ebo.91.1252621586630; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:26:26 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AMQWVk020003 Status: RO Content-Length: 1174 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Merging consolidations?   By the people who would be doing the work and > responsible for maintaining it.   The criteria here would be "Does it > make sense?" and the answer is clearly no - the cost would be too high, > the benefit non-existent. It was only an organizational question. Obviously it makes no sense in this case. I thought of it only because of Moinaks auto-builder (and my own insufficient steps towards that direction a year ago). Not combining consolidations for development purposes, just for allowing external distributors to build _everything_ in one rush, without interaction and during sleep. I still do not understand all aspects of how Sun does this internally. Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers them into a spool area? Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). Sorry for being a bit OT. But I saw it as a good moment to ask this. Thanks. -- %martin bochnig From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:26:33 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMQWVk020003; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMQShJ004743; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:26:29 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00K031059N00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00FNL104BL70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMIRPn021879; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1433268; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4897597; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:27 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3026523; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:26:27 +0000 (Z) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so580678ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.172.16 with SMTP id z16mr2367999ebo.91.1252621586630; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:26:26 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AMQWVk020003 Status: RO Content-Length: 1174 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Merging consolidations?   By the people who would be doing the work and > responsible for maintaining it.   The criteria here would be "Does it > make sense?" and the answer is clearly no - the cost would be too high, > the benefit non-existent. It was only an organizational question. Obviously it makes no sense in this case. I thought of it only because of Moinaks auto-builder (and my own insufficient steps towards that direction a year ago). Not combining consolidations for development purposes, just for allowing external distributors to build _everything_ in one rush, without interaction and during sleep. I still do not understand all aspects of how Sun does this internally. Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers them into a spool area? Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). Sorry for being a bit OT. But I saw it as a good moment to ask this. Thanks. -- %martin bochnig From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:36:39 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMadOP003227; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMaZJ2034757; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00G1N1H2LF00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:36:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00AQ41H1P640@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMabVR014188; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00A0019XZ800@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00JC91H12VE0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Martin Bochnig Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AA97F75.6090601@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 1343 Martin Bochnig wrote: > I thought of it only because of Moinaks auto-builder (and my own > insufficient steps towards that direction a year ago). > Not combining consolidations for development purposes, just for > allowing external distributors to build _everything_ in one rush, > without interaction and during sleep. That would be a multi-day build, and adding X would still leave massive amounts outside (SFW, GNOME, Mozilla, etc.). > I still do not understand all aspects of how Sun does this internally. > > Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers > them into a spool area? Yes. > Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once > and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via > distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). No. SXCE is built by combining the packages each consolidation delivers to the common WOS "dock". OpenSolaris is currently built by converting the SVR4 packages in that dock to IPS packages, with some transformations along the way (the distro-import section of the IPS gate) - after the SXCE builds stop, consolidations will start converting to delivering IPS packages to a common repository. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:36:39 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMadOP003227; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMaZJ2034757; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00G1N1H2LF00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:36:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00AQ41H1P640@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMabVR014188; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00A0019XZ800@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00JC91H12VE0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:36:37 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Martin Bochnig Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AA97F75.6090601@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 1343 Martin Bochnig wrote: > I thought of it only because of Moinaks auto-builder (and my own > insufficient steps towards that direction a year ago). > Not combining consolidations for development purposes, just for > allowing external distributors to build _everything_ in one rush, > without interaction and during sleep. That would be a multi-day build, and adding X would still leave massive amounts outside (SFW, GNOME, Mozilla, etc.). > I still do not understand all aspects of how Sun does this internally. > > Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers > them into a spool area? Yes. > Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once > and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via > distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). No. SXCE is built by combining the packages each consolidation delivers to the common WOS "dock". OpenSolaris is currently built by converting the SVR4 packages in that dock to IPS packages, with some transformations along the way (the distro-import section of the IPS gate) - after the SXCE builds stop, consolidations will start converting to delivering IPS packages to a common repository. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:48:20 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMmJIA012314; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMmEQ7017181; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:48:17 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00H0520FVS00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00AWW20FOY40@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMYDKa015714; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1434805; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-112711; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3051231; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (Z) Received: by mail-ew0-f205.google.com with SMTP id 1so592871ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.159.15 with SMTP id l15mr2321237ebo.96.1252622893394; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:48:13 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA97F75.6090601@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> <4AA97F75.6090601@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AMmJIA012314 Status: RO Content-Length: 1636 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:36 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > That would be a multi-day build, and adding X would still leave massive > amounts outside (SFW, GNOME, Mozilla, etc.). Of course ) Leave it running over the holidays and use a more distributed/parallel make, than dmake. >> I still do not understand all aspects of how Sun does this internally. >> >> Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers >> them into a spool area? > > Yes. It just thought for a moment, maybe all gates should migrate to exactly the same build system. And every consolidation could be a pluggable module or that single build workspace, all using the same auto-configuration commands and make, the same spec files and so on. But maybe this would not be worth the effort, to forcefully equalize everything. Huge costs, not much benefit. >> Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once >> and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via >> distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). > > No.   SXCE is built by combining the packages each consolidation delivers > to the common WOS "dock".    OpenSolaris is currently built by converting > the SVR4 packages in that dock to IPS packages, with some transformations > along the way (the distro-import section of the IPS gate) - after the > SXCE builds stop, consolidations will start converting to delivering IPS > packages to a common repository. Ok, it is probably the most flexible and efficient way of doing things. Good, thanks for your explanation. -- %martin bochnig From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:48:20 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMmJIA012314; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMmEQ7017181; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:48:17 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00H0520FVS00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00AWW20FOY40@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (ip125.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.125]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMYDKa015714; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay15i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1434805; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-112711; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3051231; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:14 +0000 (Z) Received: by mail-ew0-f205.google.com with SMTP id 1so592871ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.159.15 with SMTP id l15mr2321237ebo.96.1252622893394; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:48:13 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA97F75.6090601@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> <4AA97F75.6090601@sun.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8AMmJIA012314 Status: RO Content-Length: 1636 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:36 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > That would be a multi-day build, and adding X would still leave massive > amounts outside (SFW, GNOME, Mozilla, etc.). Of course ) Leave it running over the holidays and use a more distributed/parallel make, than dmake. >> I still do not understand all aspects of how Sun does this internally. >> >> Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers >> them into a spool area? > > Yes. It just thought for a moment, maybe all gates should migrate to exactly the same build system. And every consolidation could be a pluggable module or that single build workspace, all using the same auto-configuration commands and make, the same spec files and so on. But maybe this would not be worth the effort, to forcefully equalize everything. Huge costs, not much benefit. >> Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once >> and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via >> distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). > > No.   SXCE is built by combining the packages each consolidation delivers > to the common WOS "dock".    OpenSolaris is currently built by converting > the SVR4 packages in that dock to IPS packages, with some transformations > along the way (the distro-import section of the IPS gate) - after the > SXCE builds stop, consolidations will start converting to delivering IPS > packages to a common repository. Ok, it is probably the most flexible and efficient way of doing things. Good, thanks for your explanation. -- %martin bochnig From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:53:06 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMr5YW012377; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMr0gb019664; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:53:01 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS0050928CU400@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS0071Y28BA4E0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMqxRH004726; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.12] [160.41.221.12]) by relay41i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-857218; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3726090; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:26 +0000 (Z) Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.144] [74.125.78.144]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-19859062; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:26 +0000 (Z) Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 13so130794eye.44 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.160.19 with SMTP id m19mr1656447ebo.2.1252623145473; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:52:25 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> To: Bart Smaalders Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.047sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 767 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Bart Smaalders wrote: > Martin Bochnig wrote: >> >> Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers >> them into a spool area? > > yes. > >> Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once >> and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via >> distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). >> > > No. Each consolidation has different build infrastructure and > procedures; > > = Bart Yes, exactly. Is this a necessity? Wouldnt it be cheaper if all used the same? That was what I objected to. I am just not 100% sure and I wanted to bring this question onto the table to see your responses. Only for consideration. -%martin From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 15:53:06 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMr5YW012377; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMr0gb019664; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:53:01 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS0050928CU400@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS0071Y28BA4E0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay41i.sun.com ([192.5.209.70]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMqxRH004726; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.12] [160.41.221.12]) by relay41i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-857218; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3726090; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:26 +0000 (Z) Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.144] [74.125.78.144]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-19859062; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:52:26 +0000 (Z) Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 13so130794eye.44 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.160.19 with SMTP id m19mr1656447ebo.2.1252623145473; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:52:25 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> To: Bart Smaalders Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.047sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 767 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Bart Smaalders wrote: > Martin Bochnig wrote: >> >> Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers >> them into a spool area? > > yes. > >> Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once >> and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via >> distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). >> > > No. Each consolidation has different build infrastructure and > procedures; > > = Bart Yes, exactly. Is this a necessity? Wouldnt it be cheaper if all used the same? That was what I objected to. I am just not 100% sure and I wanted to bring this question onto the table to see your responses. Only for consideration. -%martin From bart.smaalders@Sun.COM Thu Sep 10 15:55:41 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMteHn012664; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMtUGg020816; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:55:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS006072CN6B00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zion.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.75]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS007ES2CNA4E0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.228.109]) by zion.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8AMdh6N016740; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:39:43 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:38:32 -0700 From: Bart Smaalders Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: To: Martin Bochnig Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090804) Status: RO Content-Length: 587 Martin Bochnig wrote: > Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers > them into a spool area? yes. > Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once > and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via > distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). > No. Each consolidation has different build infrastructure and procedures; = Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts "You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird." From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:55:53 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMtqBY012686; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMtoEH021029; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:55:51 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00I032D2NV00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00A5Z2D1OW50@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMtnkb015168; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00B0023E8I00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00IWU2D1HT70@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Martin Bochnig Cc: Bart Smaalders , PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AA983F5.6010704@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 531 Martin Bochnig wrote: > Wouldnt it be cheaper if all used the same? Not after the huge cleaning bill we'd have to pay to clean up all the blood spilled in the "spec files vs. ON-style makefiles" deathmatch trying to decide which one to use, and the years of effort converting all the other consolidations to the one winner. This is why IPS doesn't include a package build system, we can't all agree on just one. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From bart.smaalders@Sun.COM Thu Sep 10 15:55:41 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMteHn012664; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMtUGg020816; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:55:38 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS006072CN6B00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zion.sfbay.sun.com ([129.146.17.75]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS007ES2CNA4E0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.146.228.109] (cyber.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.228.109]) by zion.sfbay.sun.com (8.14.3+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8AMdh6N016740; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:39:43 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:38:32 -0700 From: Bart Smaalders Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: To: Martin Bochnig Cc: Alan Coopersmith , PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@Sun.COM Message-id: <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090804) Status: RO Content-Length: 587 Martin Bochnig wrote: > Every consolidation generates packages individually and just delivers > them into a spool area? yes. > Is there no automated A-to-Z tool, that compiles everything at once > and then automatically combines the binary packages into a distro via > distro-constructor (or in the past: How was it done for SXCE?). > No. Each consolidation has different build infrastructure and procedures; = Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts@cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts "You will contribute more with mercurial than with thunderbird." From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Thu Sep 10 15:55:53 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8AMtqBY012686; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8AMtoEH021029; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:55:51 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00I032D2NV00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.133]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS00A5Z2D1OW50@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8AMtnkb015168; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00B0023E8I00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS00IWU2D1HT70@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:49 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Martin Bochnig Cc: Bart Smaalders , PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AA983F5.6010704@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <4AA979A0.8040507@sun.com> <4AA97FE8.1060709@Sun.COM> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 531 Martin Bochnig wrote: > Wouldnt it be cheaper if all used the same? Not after the huge cleaning bill we'd have to pay to clean up all the blood spilled in the "spec files vs. ON-style makefiles" deathmatch trying to decide which one to use, and the years of effort converting all the other consolidations to the one winner. This is why IPS doesn't include a package build system, we can't all agree on just one. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Sebastien.Roy@sun.com Thu Sep 10 17:28:28 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8B0SROm027460; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8B0SQlg021595; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:28:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00J016NE6B00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS0092W6NDHVE0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8B0SPpZ029381; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:28:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00G006H0V800@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([unknown] [173.76.19.212]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS003X16NCEJD0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:28:24 -0400 From: Sebastien Roy Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Sender: Sebastien.Roy@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 725 +1 with one minor question: On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > > Previous location: New location: > /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin > /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? > /usr/X11/include /usr/include > /usr/X11/lib /usr/lib > /usr/X11/lib/modules /usr/lib/xorg/modules > /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults /usr/share/X11/app-defaults > /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts /usr/share/fonts > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb /usr/share/X11/xkb > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver /usr/lib/xorg > /usr/X11/share /usr/share > /usr/X11/share/man /usr/share/man -Seb From Sebastien.Roy@sun.com Thu Sep 10 17:28:28 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8B0SROm027460; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8B0SQlg021595; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:28:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00J016NE6B00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS0092W6NDHVE0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8B0SPpZ029381; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:28:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPS00G006H0V800@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([unknown] [173.76.19.212]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPS003X16NCEJD0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:28:24 -0400 From: Sebastien Roy Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Sender: Sebastien.Roy@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 725 +1 with one minor question: On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > > Previous location: New location: > /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin > /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? > /usr/X11/include /usr/include > /usr/X11/lib /usr/lib > /usr/X11/lib/modules /usr/lib/xorg/modules > /usr/X11/lib/X11/app-defaults /usr/share/X11/app-defaults > /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts /usr/share/fonts > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xkb /usr/share/X11/xkb > /usr/X11/lib/X11/xserver /usr/lib/xorg > /usr/X11/share /usr/share > /usr/X11/share/man /usr/share/man -Seb From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 19:25:10 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8B2PAoG029111; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8B2P8Zw022316; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00E0VC1WK600@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS008FLC0Y1P30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8B1pBa0027216; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1449364; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-357434; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3308502; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (Z) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so695461ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.144.7 with SMTP id w7mr1728686ebn.90.1252635873047; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:24:33 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> To: Sebastien Roy Cc: Alan Coopersmith , xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-ext@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8B2PAoG029111 Status: RO Content-Length: 626 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:28 AM, Sebastien Roy wrote: > +1 with one minor question: > > On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: >>     Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: >> >>     Previous location:                        New location: >>      /usr/X11/bin                      /usr/bin >>      /usr/X11/demo                     /usr/bin > > Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? Hi, well, maybe they could do this. But what would you want them to put there? glxgears? xlogo? xeyes? Actually one would expect to find those at their default locations. %m From martin@martux.org Thu Sep 10 19:25:10 2009 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8B2PAoG029111; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8B2P8Zw022316; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPS00E0VC1WK600@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPS008FLC0Y1P30@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (ip124.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.124]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8B1pBa0027216; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay14i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-1449364; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay15i.sun.com (relay15i.sun.com [129.179.4.125]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-357434; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-ew0-f205.google.com ([209.85.219.205] [209.85.219.205]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3308502; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:34 +0000 (Z) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so695461ewy.6 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.211.144.7 with SMTP id w7mr1728686ebn.90.1252635873047; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:24:33 +0300 From: Martin Bochnig Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> To: Sebastien Roy Cc: Alan Coopersmith , xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, PSARC-ext@sun.com, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sac.sfbay.sun.com id n8B2PAoG029111 Status: RO Content-Length: 626 On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:28 AM, Sebastien Roy wrote: > +1 with one minor question: > > On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: >>     Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: >> >>     Previous location:                        New location: >>      /usr/X11/bin                      /usr/bin >>      /usr/X11/demo                     /usr/bin > > Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? Hi, well, maybe they could do this. But what would you want them to put there? glxgears? xlogo? xeyes? Actually one would expect to find those at their default locations. %m From carlsonj@workingcode.com Fri Sep 11 06:04:12 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8BD4BWl017682; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8BD445x022171; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:04:08 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPT00D615MUAY00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPT002OM5MTL0E0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8BCtDHd003836; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.12] [160.41.221.12]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-779395; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:04 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay45i.sun.com (relay45i.sun.com [192.5.209.94]) by mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4493511; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:03 +0000 (Z) Received: from carlson.workingcode.com ([75.150.68.97] [75.150.68.97]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2944748; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:03 +0000 (Z) Received: from [10.50.24.188] (gate.abinitio.com [65.170.40.132]) (authenticated bits=0) by carlson.workingcode.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8BD3QIs021235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:03:26 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AAA4A9E.4060301@workingcode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: carlson 1181; Body=4 Fuz1=4 Fuz2=4 X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.168sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090605) Status: RO Content-Length: 592 Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are > now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries > on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are > now discouraged for commonly-used software. Plus, it's weird to have the base OS and GNOME delivered via /usr, but the middleman X Window System relegated to an obscure path. This project fixes that oddity. No longer a Member, but a big +1 from me. Wonderful to see! -- James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W From carlsonj@workingcode.com Fri Sep 11 06:04:12 2009 Received: from sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (sunmail4.Singapore.Sun.COM [129.158.71.19]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8BD4BWl017682; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail4.singapore.sun.com (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8BD445x022171; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:04:08 +0800 (SGT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPT00D615MUAY00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPT002OM5MTL0E0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8BCtDHd003836; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.12] [160.41.221.12]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-779395; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:04 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay45i.sun.com (relay45i.sun.com [192.5.209.94]) by mmp43es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-4493511; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:03 +0000 (Z) Received: from carlson.workingcode.com ([75.150.68.97] [75.150.68.97]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2944748; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:04:03 +0000 (Z) Received: from [10.50.24.188] (gate.abinitio.com [65.170.40.132]) (authenticated bits=0) by carlson.workingcode.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8BD3QIs021235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:03:26 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: [xwin-discuss] Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AAA4A9E.4060301@workingcode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: carlson 1181; Body=4 Fuz1=4 Fuz2=4 X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.168sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090605) Status: RO Content-Length: 592 Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Numerous other ARC cases have established that /usr/bin & /usr/lib are > now the primary installation location for public binaries & libraries > on Solaris & OpenSolaris, and that subsystem-specific hierarchies are > now discouraged for commonly-used software. Plus, it's weird to have the base OS and GNOME delivered via /usr, but the middleman X Window System relegated to an obscure path. This project fixes that oddity. No longer a Member, but a big +1 from me. Wonderful to see! -- James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Fri Sep 11 06:45:31 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8BDjVY4017841; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8BDjTaw037611; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPT00B0D7JSLK00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPT008IP7JSL120@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8BDjS6x021742; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPT00G007E8LI00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPT00L137JSZQE0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Sebastien Roy Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AAA5478.5030409@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 868 Sebastien Roy wrote: > +1 with one minor question: > > On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: >> >> Previous location: New location: >> /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin >> /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin > > Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? If we had any software that we really wanted hidden there, yes. Right now, we don't. Most of what was in /usr/openwin/demo already moved to /usr/X11/bin since we got tired of telling users that things were hidden there, or finding that people had redelivered things like xeyes that were hidden there. Right now the only thing in /usr/X11/demo is glxgears, which all other distros ship in a normal bin directory. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Fri Sep 11 06:45:31 2009 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8BDjVY4017841; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8BDjTaw037611; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPT00B0D7JSLK00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPT008IP7JSL120@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8BDjS6x021742; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPT00G007E8LI00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPT00L137JSZQE0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:45:28 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: Sebastien Roy Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4AAA5478.5030409@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 868 Sebastien Roy wrote: > +1 with one minor question: > > On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: >> >> Previous location: New location: >> /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin >> /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin > > Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? If we had any software that we really wanted hidden there, yes. Right now, we don't. Most of what was in /usr/openwin/demo already moved to /usr/X11/bin since we got tired of telling users that things were hidden there, or finding that people had redelivered things like xeyes that were hidden there. Right now the only thing in /usr/X11/demo is glxgears, which all other distros ship in a normal bin directory. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Sebastien.Roy@sun.com Fri Sep 11 07:49:16 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8BEnFuo018721; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8BEnBXD001357; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:49:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPT00J07AI2NG00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPT00D76AI1NE80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8BEnD0M028690; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:49:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPT009009OIH900@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.128.225.241] ([unknown] [24.128.225.241]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPT001F4AH67WA0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:48:42 -0400 From: Sebastien Roy Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AAA5478.5030409@sun.com> Sender: Sebastien.Roy@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1252680522.2291.0.camel@seb> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> <4AAA5478.5030409@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 893 On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 06:45 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Sebastien Roy wrote: > > +1 with one minor question: > > > > On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > >> > >> Previous location: New location: > >> /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin > >> /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin > > > > Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? > > If we had any software that we really wanted hidden there, yes. > Right now, we don't. Most of what was in /usr/openwin/demo > already moved to /usr/X11/bin since we got tired of telling > users that things were hidden there, or finding that people > had redelivered things like xeyes that were hidden there. > > Right now the only thing in /usr/X11/demo is glxgears, which all > other distros ship in a normal bin directory. Understood, that's fine with me. -Seb From Sebastien.Roy@sun.com Fri Sep 11 07:49:16 2009 Received: from sunmail5.uk.sun.com (sunmail5.UK.Sun.COM [129.156.85.165]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8BEnFuo018721; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail5.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id n8BEnBXD001357; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:49:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KPT00J07AI2NG00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KPT00D76AI1NE80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-amer-09.sun.com ([192.18.109.79]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8BEnD0M028690; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:49:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPT009009OIH900@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.128.225.241] ([unknown] [24.128.225.241]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPT001F4AH67WA0@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:48:42 -0400 From: Sebastien Roy Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AAA5478.5030409@sun.com> Sender: Sebastien.Roy@sun.com To: Alan Coopersmith Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org, LSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <1252680522.2291.0.camel@seb> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> <1252628904.2279.704.camel@seb> <4AAA5478.5030409@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 893 On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 06:45 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Sebastien Roy wrote: > > +1 with one minor question: > > > > On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:55 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Specifically, the major directory mappings will be: > >> > >> Previous location: New location: > >> /usr/X11/bin /usr/bin > >> /usr/X11/demo /usr/bin > > > > Would it make sense to have a /usr/demo/X11? > > If we had any software that we really wanted hidden there, yes. > Right now, we don't. Most of what was in /usr/openwin/demo > already moved to /usr/X11/bin since we got tired of telling > users that things were hidden there, or finding that people > had redelivered things like xeyes that were hidden there. > > Right now the only thing in /usr/X11/demo is glxgears, which all > other distros ship in a normal bin directory. Understood, that's fine with me. -Seb From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Wed Sep 16 10:16:01 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8GHG1Dg007043; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8GHFwtp000553; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQ200B0HQMOBN00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQ200984QMMX810@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:15:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8GHFw4f003386; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KQ200I00OCCKC00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KQ200MS9QML08F0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:57 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4AB11D4D.4000105@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Alan Coopersmith wrote: > I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, > and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for > OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). This was approved today during PSARC business. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com Wed Sep 16 10:16:01 2009 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n8GHG1Dg007043; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id n8GHFwtp000553; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0KQ200B0HQMOBN00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0KQ200984QMMX810@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:15:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-sfbay-09.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8GHFw4f003386; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-09.sun.com by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KQ200I00OCCKC00@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.145.155.53] ([unknown] [129.145.155.53]) by fe-sfbay-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KQ200MS9QML08F0@fe-sfbay-09.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:15:57 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: Obsolescence of /usr/X11 [PSARC/2009/482 FastTrack timeout 09/17/2009] In-reply-to: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> Sender: Alan.Coopersmith@sun.com To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: LSARC-ext@sun.com, xwin-discuss@opensolaris.org Message-id: <4AB11D4D.4000105@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <4AA975C6.3050700@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090323) Status: RO Content-Length: 380 Alan Coopersmith wrote: > I am sponsoring this fast-track for myself, with a timeout of Sept. 17, > and a release binding of patch (though delivery is only planned for > OpenSolaris & Solaris "Next" at this time). This was approved today during PSARC business. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering