From Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM Fri Sep 25 08:33:39 2009
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:33:26 -0400
From: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM>
Subject: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515
 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009]
Sender: Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM
To: PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
Cc: Erik Nordmark <Erik.Nordmark@Sun.COM>
Message-id: <1253892807.26527.157.camel@seb>
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I'm submitting this fast-track for Erik Nordmark, it times out on
10/02/2009.  The release binding is Patch.

Background:
----------

Since Solaris 2.0 we have enabled path MTU discovery by default
including for UDP and RAWIP sockets. The addition of IP_DONTFRAG
[PSARC/2009/494] allows applications to control this.

Solaris implements traceroute -F ("dontfrag") to disable path MTU 
discovery for traceroute. But this is documented as not working in 
zones. And the implementation doesn't do it for IPv6 at all.

BSD implements a -D option to ping(1m) to enable path MTU discovery just
like "-F" does it for traceroute. Solaris does not currently implement 
this option.

Details:
-------

This case is to introduce ping -D in Solaris and remove the limitations
for traceroute -F..

The behavior of ping and traceroute when these options (-D and -F 
respectively) are not specified is unchanged.


           Exported Interfaces
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Interface              Classification          Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    ping -D option          Committed               ping(1M)
    ping -F option          Committed               traceroute(1M)
    -------------------------------------------------------------


Man page updates:
================

Add this text to ping(1M):
       -D
                Turn off path MTU discovery. For IPv4 this means setting
                the Don't Fragment bit. For IPv4 and IPv6 this means to
                not allow fragmentation as the datagrams are sent. If
                the data_size exceeds the MTU, then ping may report
                that sending failed due to Message too long.

Change the text in traceroute(1M) from:
      -F

          Set the "don't fragment" bit. This option is valid  only
          on  IPv4.  When  specified from within a shared-IP zone,
          this option has no effect as the "don't fragment" bit is
          always set in this case.
to:
      -F
                Turn off path MTU discovery. For IPv4 this means setting
                the Don't Fragment bit. For IPv4 and IPv6 this means to
                not allow fragmentation as the datagrams are sent. If   
                the packetlen exceeds the MTU, then traceroute may
                report that sending failed due to Message too long.
---



From Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM Fri Sep 25 08:46:45 2009
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:46:19 +0100
From: Darren J Moffat <Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515
 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009]
In-reply-to: <1253892807.26527.157.camel@seb>
Sender: Darren.Moffat@Sun.COM
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Cc: PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>,
        Erik Nordmark <Erik.Nordmark@Sun.COM>
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Sebastien Roy wrote:
> I'm submitting this fast-track for Erik Nordmark, it times out on
> 10/02/2009.  The release binding is Patch.


> This case is to introduce ping -D in Solaris and remove the limitations
> for traceroute -F..
> 
> The behavior of ping and traceroute when these options (-D and -F 
> respectively) are not specified is unchanged.

Huge +1 this will help a lot in determining where in a path there are 
miss guided network configs blocking all the "evil" ICMP traffic.

-- 
Darren J Moffat

From casper@holland.sun.com Fri Sep 25 08:48:30 2009
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From: Casper.Dik@sun.com
To: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@sun.com>
cc: PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>,
        Erik Nordmark <Erik.Nordmark@sun.com>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009] 
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>I'm submitting this fast-track for Erik Nordmark, it times out on
>10/02/2009.  The release binding is Patch.
>
>Background:
>----------
>
>Since Solaris 2.0 we have enabled path MTU discovery by default
>including for UDP and RAWIP sockets. The addition of IP_DONTFRAG
>[PSARC/2009/494] allows applications to control this.
>
>Solaris implements traceroute -F ("dontfrag") to disable path MTU 
>discovery for traceroute. But this is documented as not working in 
>zones. And the implementation doesn't do it for IPv6 at all.
>
>BSD implements a -D option to ping(1m) to enable path MTU discovery just
>like "-F" does it for traceroute. Solaris does not currently implement 
>this option.
>
>Details:
>-------
>
>This case is to introduce ping -D in Solaris and remove the limitations
>for traceroute -F..
>
>The behavior of ping and traceroute when these options (-D and -F 
>respectively) are not specified is unchanged.
>
>
>           Exported Interfaces
>    -------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    Interface              Classification          Comments
>    -------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    ping -D option          Committed               ping(1M)
>    ping -F option          Committed               traceroute(1M)
>    -------------------------------------------------------------

"traceroute -F option", surely?

>
>Man page updates:
>================
>
>Add this text to ping(1M):
>       -D
>                Turn off path MTU discovery. For IPv4 this means setting
>                the Don't Fragment bit. For IPv4 and IPv6 this means to
>                not allow fragmentation as the datagrams are sent. If
>                the data_size exceeds the MTU, then ping may report
>                that sending failed due to Message too long.
>
>Change the text in traceroute(1M) from:
>      -F
>
>          Set the "don't fragment" bit. This option is valid  only
>          on  IPv4.  When  specified from within a shared-IP zone,
>          this option has no effect as the "don't fragment" bit is
>          always set in this case.
>to:
>      -F
>                Turn off path MTU discovery. For IPv4 this means setting
>                the Don't Fragment bit. For IPv4 and IPv6 this means to
>                not allow fragmentation as the datagrams are sent. If   
>                the packetlen exceeds the MTU, then traceroute may
>                report that sending failed due to Message too long.
>---


This sounds wrong.  If you set the "don't fragment bit" then you ARE doing
path MTU discovery. I think we only do this on TCP/IP and we don't
do this for ICMP (ping) or UDP (traceroute).

Casper


From Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM Fri Sep 25 08:55:42 2009
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:55:21 -0400
From: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515
 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009]
In-reply-to: <200909251548.n8PFmOB0017542@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com>
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To: Casper.Dik@Sun.COM
Cc: PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>,
        Erik Nordmark <Erik.Nordmark@Sun.COM>
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On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 17:48 +0200, Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote:
> >           Exported Interfaces
> >    -------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >    Interface              Classification          Comments
> >    -------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >    ping -D option          Committed               ping(1M)
> >    ping -F option          Committed               traceroute(1M)
> >    -------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "traceroute -F option", surely?

Yes, that's a typo.

> >      -F
> >                Turn off path MTU discovery. For IPv4 this means setting
> >                the Don't Fragment bit. For IPv4 and IPv6 this means to
> >                not allow fragmentation as the datagrams are sent. If   
> >                the packetlen exceeds the MTU, then traceroute may
> >                report that sending failed due to Message too long.
> >---
> 
> 
> This sounds wrong.  If you set the "don't fragment bit" then you ARE doing
> path MTU discovery. I think we only do this on TCP/IP and we don't
> do this for ICMP (ping) or UDP (traceroute).

That's also a typo, it should say "Turn on path MTU discovery".  Note
that both ping and traceroute can do either ICMP or UDP (ping -U and
traceroute -I).

-Seb



From erik.nordmark@sun.com Fri Sep 25 14:55:48 2009
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:55:42 -0700
From: Erik Nordmark <erik.nordmark@sun.com>
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CC: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@sun.com>,
        PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515
 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009]
References: <1253892807.26527.157.camel@seb> <200909251548.n8PFmOB0017542@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com>
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Casper.Dik@Sun.COM wrote:

>>    Interface              Classification          Comments
>>    -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>    ping -D option          Committed               ping(1M)
>>    ping -F option          Committed               traceroute(1M)
>>    -------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "traceroute -F option", surely?

Oops, yes.


>>      -F
>>                Turn off path MTU discovery. For IPv4 this means setting
>>                the Don't Fragment bit. For IPv4 and IPv6 this means to
>>                not allow fragmentation as the datagrams are sent. If   
>>                the packetlen exceeds the MTU, then traceroute may
>>                report that sending failed due to Message too long.
>> ---
> 
> 
> This sounds wrong.  If you set the "don't fragment bit" then you ARE doing
> path MTU discovery. I think we only do this on TCP/IP and we don't
> do this for ICMP (ping) or UDP (traceroute).

FWIW we've been doing it for all traffic including ICMP/RAWIP and UDP 
since Solaris 2.0.

I've struggled with the description and trying to find a way to describe 
it that is common for IPv4 and IPv6. And you are right that saying "Turn 
off path MTU discovery" is odd at best. Thus I think it should say "Turn 
of fragmentation" as the first sentence for -D and -F.

Does that make more sense?

    Erik

> 
> Casper
> 


From erik.nordmark@sun.com Fri Sep 25 14:57:44 2009
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From: Erik Nordmark <erik.nordmark@sun.com>
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To: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@sun.com>
CC: Casper.Dik@sun.com, PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515
 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009]
References: <1253892807.26527.157.camel@seb> <200909251548.n8PFmOB0017542@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> <1253894121.26527.178.camel@seb>
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Sebastien Roy wrote:

>> This sounds wrong.  If you set the "don't fragment bit" then you ARE doing
>> path MTU discovery. I think we only do this on TCP/IP and we don't
>> do this for ICMP (ping) or UDP (traceroute).
> 
> That's also a typo, it should say "Turn on path MTU discovery". 

It doesn't quite do that, since using path MTU discovery with ping or 
traceroute would mean to most people that ping and traceroute would 
report the path MTU it discovers (there versions of traceroute out there 
that do just that).

Hence my suggestion to say "Turn off fragmentation".

    Erik

From Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM Fri Sep 25 15:05:32 2009
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:05:29 -0400
From: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515
 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009]
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On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 14:57 -0700, Erik Nordmark wrote:
> Sebastien Roy wrote:
> 
> >> This sounds wrong.  If you set the "don't fragment bit" then you ARE doing
> >> path MTU discovery. I think we only do this on TCP/IP and we don't
> >> do this for ICMP (ping) or UDP (traceroute).
> > 
> > That's also a typo, it should say "Turn on path MTU discovery". 
> 
> It doesn't quite do that, since using path MTU discovery with ping or 
> traceroute would mean to most people that ping and traceroute would 
> report the path MTU it discovers (there versions of traceroute out there 
> that do just that).
> 
> Hence my suggestion to say "Turn off fragmentation".

That sounds fine to me.

-Seb



From casper@holland.sun.com Sat Sep 26 04:29:40 2009
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From: Casper.Dik@sun.com
To: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@sun.com>
cc: Erik Nordmark <Erik.Nordmark@sun.com>,
        PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009] 
In-Reply-To: <1253916329.26527.385.camel@seb> 
References: <1253892807.26527.157.camel@seb> <200909251548.n8PFmOB0017542@dm-holland-02.uk.sun.com> <1253894121.26527.178.camel@seb> <4ABD3CD4.3090100@sun.com> <1253916329.26527.385.camel@seb> 
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Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:29:36 +0200
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>
>On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 14:57 -0700, Erik Nordmark wrote:
>> Sebastien Roy wrote:
>> 
>> >> This sounds wrong.  If you set the "don't fragment bit" then you ARE doing
>> >> path MTU discovery. I think we only do this on TCP/IP and we don't
>> >> do this for ICMP (ping) or UDP (traceroute).
>> > 
>> > That's also a typo, it should say "Turn on path MTU discovery". 
>> 
>> It doesn't quite do that, since using path MTU discovery with ping or 
>> traceroute would mean to most people that ping and traceroute would 
>> report the path MTU it discovers (there versions of traceroute out there 
>> that do just that).
>> 
>> Hence my suggestion to say "Turn off fragmentation".
>
>That sounds fine to me.
>


+1 (the case and the clarifications)

Casper


From Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM Tue Oct  6 07:16:08 2009
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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:13:29 -0400
From: Sebastien Roy <Sebastien.Roy@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: fragmentation controls for ping and traceroute [PSARC/2009/515
 FastTrack timeout 10/02/2009]
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To: PSARC-ext <psarc-ext@sac.sfbay.sun.com>
Cc: Erik Nordmark <Erik.Nordmark@Sun.COM>
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On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 11:33 -0400, Sebastien Roy wrote:
> I'm submitting this fast-track for Erik Nordmark, it times out on
> 10/02/2009.  The release binding is Patch.

Belated case status update:  This case was approved during last week's
PSARC meeting.

-Seb



