From petede@sac.sfbay.sun.com Tue Jun 8 01:53:01 2010 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o588r0F8001291 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 01:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o588qvW9012970; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 02:52:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3O00D0JU09BL00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 01:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3O002DBU09HVB0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 01:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (sac.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.226.132]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o588qvc7026972; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 01:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sac.sfbay.sun.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o588quE4001286; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 01:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from petede@localhost) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/Submit) id o588qu16001282; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 01:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 01:52:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Dennis Subject: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] To: PSARC-ext@sun.com Cc: venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 Status: RO Content-Length: 1938 I'm sponsoring this case for Venky Tv. Required release binding: Patch binding for the announcement and marking as Obsolete. Minor binding for the removal. Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.70 03/30/10 SMI This information is Copyright (c) 2010, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: EOF legacy processor type truth values 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Author: Venky TV 1.3 Date of This Document: 08 June, 2010 4. Technical Description 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: EOF legacy processor type truth values 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Venky TV 1.3. Date of This Document: June 04, 2010 4. Technical Description: 4.1. Details: This projects aims to remove processor type truth values in /usr/bin which are no longer relevant -- namely, iAPX286, i286, i860, pdp11, u3b, u3b2, u3b5, u3b15, vax, and u370. 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): 6958555 Remove processor type truth which are no longer relevant 4.5. Interfaces: The following interfaces will be deleted: /usr/bin/iAPX286 /usr/bin/i286 /usr/bin/i860 /usr/bin/pdp11 /usr/bin/u3b /usr/bin/u3b2 /usr/bin/u3b5 /usr/bin/u3b15 /usr/bin/vax /usr/bin/u370 4.6. Doc Impact: The man pages for each of these utilities will be removed. iAPX286.1 i286.1 i860.1 pdp11.1 u3b.1 u3b2.1 u3b5.1 u3b15.i vax.i u370.1 4.10. Packaging & Delivery: All these are part of the SUNWcs package. There is no impact on install/upgrade. 6. Resources and Schedule 6.4. Steering Committee requested information 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: ON 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: open From Darren.Moffat@oracle.com Tue Jun 8 02:03:25 2010 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5893Pxw001730 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 02:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5893FlI018443; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 03:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3O00D0BUHFVG00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 02:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3O00295UHFHPB0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 02:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58939j5025798; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:03:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o57N4Ajv024839; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:03:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt021.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 305493171275987772; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 02:02:52 -0700 Received: from [10.7.251.221] (/10.7.251.221) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 02:02:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:02:49 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> To: Peter Dennis Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com, venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <4C0E0739.2030608@Oracle.COM> Organization: Oracle Solaris Security MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4C0E074D.00C0:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100412 Lightning/1.0b1 OracleBeehiveExtension/1.0.0.0pre3 Thunderbird/3.0.3 Status: RO Content-Length: 2228 +1 I always thought it was a back to front interface anyway. On 08/06/2010 09:52, Peter Dennis wrote: > I'm sponsoring this case for Venky Tv. > > Required release binding: > Patch binding for the announcement and marking as Obsolete. > Minor binding for the removal. > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.70 03/30/10 SMI > This information is Copyright (c) 2010, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > EOF legacy processor type truth values > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Venky TV > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 08 June, 2010 > 4. Technical Description > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > EOF legacy processor type truth values > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Venky TV > > 1.3. Date of This Document: > June 04, 2010 > > > 4. Technical Description: > > 4.1. Details: > > This projects aims to remove processor type truth values in > /usr/bin which are no longer relevant -- namely, iAPX286, i286, > i860, pdp11, u3b, u3b2, u3b5, u3b15, vax, and u370. > > 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): > > 6958555 Remove processor type truth which are no longer relevant > > 4.5. Interfaces: > > The following interfaces will be deleted: > > /usr/bin/iAPX286 > /usr/bin/i286 > /usr/bin/i860 > /usr/bin/pdp11 > /usr/bin/u3b > /usr/bin/u3b2 > /usr/bin/u3b5 > /usr/bin/u3b15 > /usr/bin/vax > /usr/bin/u370 > > 4.6. Doc Impact: > > The man pages for each of these utilities will be removed. > > iAPX286.1 i286.1 i860.1 pdp11.1 u3b.1 > u3b2.1 u3b5.1 u3b15.i vax.i u370.1 > > 4.10. Packaging& Delivery: > > All these are part of the SUNWcs package. There is no impact > on install/upgrade. > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > ON > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > -- Darren J Moffat From Steve.McKinty@Sun.COM Tue Jun 8 02:59:33 2010 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o589xXcb002705 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 02:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o589xVpl008928; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 02:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3O00I09X37FG00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 03:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3O00FY2X36RVD0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 03:59:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o589xTHm018503; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:59:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0L3O00700WSEHA00@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:59:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.157.192.78] ([unknown] [129.157.192.78]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0L3O00GIAX2TDZ50@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:59:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:59:24 +0200 From: Steve McKinty Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> Sender: Steve.McKinty@Sun.COM To: Peter Dennis Cc: PSARC-ext@Sun.COM, venky.tv@Sun.COM Message-id: <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) Status: RO Content-Length: 3047 Why are these "not relevant"? In my experience they are mostly used in scripts and Makefiles, to ensure that the right code path is taken. Won't removing them break older configure-style scripts, i.e. ones that test things like "if [ ! vax ]" etc.? Is the gain of removal worth more than potential breakage of older (especially FOSS) code? Steve Peter Dennis wrote: > I'm sponsoring this case for Venky Tv. > > Required release binding: > Patch binding for the announcement and marking as Obsolete. > Minor binding for the removal. > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.70 03/30/10 SMI > This information is Copyright (c) 2010, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > EOF legacy processor type truth values > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Author: Venky TV > 1.3 Date of This Document: > 08 June, 2010 > 4. Technical Description > 1. Introduction > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > EOF legacy processor type truth values > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > Venky TV > > 1.3. Date of This Document: > June 04, 2010 > > > 4. Technical Description: > > 4.1. Details: > > This projects aims to remove processor type truth values in > /usr/bin which are no longer relevant -- namely, iAPX286, i286, > i860, pdp11, u3b, u3b2, u3b5, u3b15, vax, and u370. > > 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): > > 6958555 Remove processor type truth which are no longer relevant > > 4.5. Interfaces: > > The following interfaces will be deleted: > > /usr/bin/iAPX286 > /usr/bin/i286 > /usr/bin/i860 > /usr/bin/pdp11 > /usr/bin/u3b > /usr/bin/u3b2 > /usr/bin/u3b5 > /usr/bin/u3b15 > /usr/bin/vax > /usr/bin/u370 > > 4.6. Doc Impact: > > The man pages for each of these utilities will be removed. > > iAPX286.1 i286.1 i860.1 pdp11.1 u3b.1 > u3b2.1 u3b5.1 u3b15.i vax.i u370.1 > > 4.10. Packaging & Delivery: > > All these are part of the SUNWcs package. There is no impact > on install/upgrade. > > 6. Resources and Schedule > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > ON > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > -- Steve McKinty Architect - Sun Cluster Geographic Edition Grenoble Engineering Centre, France: http://blogs.sun.com/SC/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended ## line removed information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From James.McPherson@oracle.com Tue Jun 8 04:45:51 2010 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58Bjpj3003903 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 04:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58BjmfN008297; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 04:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P00M0120C5N00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 04:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P00HF020BGY60@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 04:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58BjeKg023306; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:45:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o58BjbD3010252; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:45:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt012.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 329532231275997492; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 04:44:52 -0700 Received: from [10.7.251.162] (/10.7.251.162) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 04:44:52 -0700 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 21:44:47 +1000 From: "James C. McPherson" Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> To: Steve McKinty Cc: Peter Dennis , PSARC-ext@sun.com, venky.tv@sun.com Reply-to: James.McPherson@oracle.com Message-id: <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> Organization: Oracle MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4C0E2D64.0058:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100412 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.3 Status: RO Content-Length: 2012 On 8/06/10 07:59 PM, Steve McKinty wrote: > Why are these "not relevant"? In my experience they are mostly > used in scripts and Makefiles, to ensure that the right code path > is taken. Won't removing them break older configure-style scripts, > i.e. ones that test things like "if [ ! vax ]" etc.? > Is the gain of removal worth more than potential breakage of > older (especially FOSS) code? ... >> /usr/bin/iAPX286 >> /usr/bin/i286 >> /usr/bin/i860 >> /usr/bin/pdp11 >> /usr/bin/u3b >> /usr/bin/u3b2 >> /usr/bin/u3b5 >> /usr/bin/u3b15 >> /usr/bin/vax >> /usr/bin/u370 Can you tell me, with a straight face - and proof- that Solaris 2.6 or later will even run on *any* of the above processors? The above processor truth types are all links to machid, which contains this comment in $SRC/cmd/machid/machid.c: /* * This program replicates the function of the links from a machine name * (such as sun4c) through /usr/kvm to true or false as appropriate. It * knows the correct special cases. * * IMPORTANT NOTE: * * Do not modify this program to know about additional special cases or * reflect new platforms or instruction set architectures. This is a * deprecated interface and strictly for backwards compatibility. This * is psarc/1992/171. Note the following excerpt from the opinion: * * It is most important to note that the manual page states in * the NOTES section: "The machid family of commands is * obsolete. Use uname -p and uname -m instead." * * The intent of Kernel Architecture Project team is to provide * only enough functionality to mimic the existing definitions * on the SPARC and Intel x86 versions of Solaris 2.x. No new * identifiers will ever be added to the documented and * undocumented identifiers listed above. */ I think it is long past time that we actually obsoleted the above interfaces. Pete: +1 James C. McPherson -- Senior Software Engineer, Solaris Oracle http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog From Steve.McKinty@sun.com Tue Jun 8 05:14:11 2010 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58CEBpC004380 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58CE93f020249; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P000033BLDE00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com ([192.18.6.21]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P00HKP3BJGO80@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe-emea-13.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe1.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.7] (may be forged)) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58CE6CR009167; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:14:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-13.sun.com by fe-emea-13.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0L3P00G003505600@fe-emea-13.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:14:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.157.192.78] ([unknown] [129.157.192.78]) by fe-emea-13.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0L3P00FJ33BE3D30@fe-emea-13.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:14:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:14:08 +0200 From: Steve McKinty Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> Sender: Steve.McKinty@sun.com To: James.McPherson@oracle.com Cc: Peter Dennis , PSARC-ext@sun.com, venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> Organization: Sun Microsystems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) Status: RO Content-Length: 2022 James C. McPherson wrote: >>> /usr/bin/iAPX286 >>> /usr/bin/i286 >>> /usr/bin/i860 >>> /usr/bin/pdp11 >>> /usr/bin/u3b >>> /usr/bin/u3b2 >>> /usr/bin/u3b5 >>> /usr/bin/u3b15 >>> /usr/bin/vax >>> /usr/bin/u370 > > > Can you tell me, with a straight face - and proof- that > Solaris 2.6 or later will even run on *any* of the above > processors? No, of course not. Who mentioned Solaris at all? These commands aren't there for Solaris, they are there so that generic scripts can work out what platform they are runing on, Solaris or not. If I wrote a portable configure script which contained something like: if [ vax ]; then do vaxy setup else if [ u3b ]; then do AT&T setup else if [ sun ]; then do Solaris setup endif it would work unchanged on all those architectures. Take out the vax and u3b commands and it will then crash when run on Solaris. This is an generic Unix application issue, not a Solaris one. They're unlikely to be used in modern applications, true, but were used a lot in legacy generic tools. It just seems pointless to break those for no good reason. Why not just make all the above binaries a link to /usr/bin/false? > The above processor truth types are all links to machid, > which contains this comment in $SRC/cmd/machid/machid.c: The key item is in the middle: > strictly for backwards compatibility. we seem to have discarded that concept these days, which is a pity. cheers Steve -- Steve McKinty Architect - Sun Cluster Geographic Edition Grenoble Engineering Centre, France: http://blogs.sun.com/SC/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended ## line removed information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From carlsonj@workingcode.com Tue Jun 8 05:34:21 2010 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58CYKHC004706 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58CYGVc028108; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P0080V495VW00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 06:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.43.21]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P00M2W494DU50@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 06:34:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by sca-ea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58CW5aq015522; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:34:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.13] [160.41.208.13]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3277386; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:33:31 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (relay11i.sun.com [129.179.4.121]) by mmp13es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-260781343; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:33:30 +0000 (Z) Received: from carlson.workingcode.com ([75.150.68.97] [75.150.68.97]) by relay1i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-6452634; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:33:30 +0000 (Z) Received: from [10.50.23.149] (gate.abinitio.com [65.170.40.132]) (authenticated bits=0) by carlson.workingcode.com (8.14.2+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o58CXI1E014500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 08:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 08:33:18 -0400 From: James Carlson Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> To: Steve McKinty Cc: James.McPherson@oracle.com, PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis , venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <4C0E388E.80101@workingcode.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-DCC-INFN-TO-Metrics: carlson; whitelist X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 0.299sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090605) Status: RO Content-Length: 1336 Steve McKinty wrote: > If I wrote a portable configure script which contained something > like: > > if [ vax ]; then > do vaxy setup Obviously, that should be "if vax; then" rather than with the test brackets, but otherwise I think Steve McKinty has a very good point. How many bytes are saved by removing these aliases for /usr/bin/false? Is it even enough to fill an old-style directory block? And why is doing that a helpful thing? Note for the case owner (Peter): this case is yet another one that seems to be randomly marked "confidential," and thus isn't visible to OpenSolaris participants, even though the discussion seems to be taking place in the open. That wasn't intended was it? http://arc.opensolaris.org/caselog/PSARC/2010/211/REDACTED.txt I don't know if anyone's watching the error messages out of the publishing mechanism, but it'd be nice to see some of these cleaned up: http://arc.opensolaris.org/caselog/unpublished_cases.html We still have a lot of cases that are empty because they're mis-marked as "manual" when the case owner either meant "open" or just didn't understand how the "manual" mechanism worked (e.g., PSARC 2005/603) and others that are "redacted" into oblivion by a naughty phrase (e.g., PSARC 2009/514). -- James Carlson 42.703N 71.076W From Darren.Moffat@oracle.com Tue Jun 8 05:45:03 2010 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58Cj2WN004973 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58CixZq003405; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 06:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P009054QZTG00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 06:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P00MSF4QZDF60@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 06:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58Ciw8Q028995; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:44:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o58Cdt1k025604; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:44:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 329659511276001090; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:44:50 -0700 Received: from [10.7.251.221] (/10.7.251.221) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:44:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:44:47 +0100 From: Darren J Moffat Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> To: Steve McKinty Cc: James.McPherson@oracle.com, Peter Dennis , PSARC-ext@sun.com, venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <4C0E3B3F.5030907@Oracle.COM> Organization: Oracle Solaris Security MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4C0E3B4A.00FE:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100412 Lightning/1.0b1 OracleBeehiveExtension/1.0.0.0pre3 Thunderbird/3.0.3 Status: RO Content-Length: 632 On 08/06/2010 13:14, Steve McKinty wrote: > If I wrote a portable configure script which contained something > like: > > if [ vax ]; then > do vaxy setup > else if [ u3b ]; then > do AT&T setup > else if [ sun ]; then > do Solaris setup > endif > > it would work unchanged on all those architectures. Take out the > vax and u3b commands and it will then crash when run on Solaris. The same script will fail on Ububtu as well - I just checked they don't exist there. > This is an generic Unix application issue, not a Solaris one. So which other "Unix" distributions still include these other than Solaris ? -- Darren J Moffat From James.McPherson@oracle.com Tue Jun 8 05:49:27 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58CnRId005058 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58CnNMo009998; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 07:49:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P00A1Z4YB6700@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 06:49:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P00M9L4Y9DT50@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 06:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58CnGVw028871; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:49:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o587lf65015033; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:49:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 329671701276001326; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:48:46 -0700 Received: from [10.7.251.162] (/10.7.251.162) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:48:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 22:48:42 +1000 From: "James C. McPherson" Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E388E.80101@workingcode.com> To: James Carlson Cc: Steve McKinty , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis , venky.tv@sun.com Reply-to: James.McPherson@oracle.com Message-id: <4C0E3C2A.8040606@oracle.com> Organization: Oracle MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4C0E3C49.0034:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> <4C0E388E.80101@workingcode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100412 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.3 Status: RO Content-Length: 1303 On 8/06/10 10:33 PM, James Carlson wrote: > Steve McKinty wrote: >> If I wrote a portable configure script which contained something >> like: >> >> if [ vax ]; then >> do vaxy setup > > Obviously, that should be "if vax; then" rather than with the test > brackets, but otherwise I think Steve McKinty has a very good point. > > How many bytes are saved by removing these aliases for /usr/bin/false? Nit: they're links to /usr/bin/i286, which is an instance of machid.c: ============================================================ # List of all links present on all architectures and machines. # # Note that this function is obsolesent and we don't generally # add to this list (see psarc/1992/171). # FIRSTLINK = i286 LINKS = i386 i486 i860 i86pc iAPX286 \ m68k mc68000 mc68010 mc68020 mc68030 mc68040 \ sparc sun sun2 sun3 sun3x sun4 sun4c sun4m sun4d sun4e \ u370 u3b u3b15 u3b2 u3b5 vax pdp11 ROOTFIRSTLINK = $(ROOTBIN)/$(FIRSTLINK) ROOTLINKS = $(LINKS:%=$(ROOTBIN)/%) # # Install the program as the first machine in the list. # ============================================================ A look at the SCCS history for the file shows that it has not been touched since 1994. James C. McPherson -- Senior Software Engineer, Solaris Oracle http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog From venkytv@sun.com Tue Jun 8 05:51:08 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58Cp8aA005114 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58Cp6cO010913 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 07:51:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P0020T5174400@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-india-02.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.104]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P00HII514GUA0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rattlehead.sun.com (rattlehead.India.Sun.COM [129.158.227.201]) by dm-india-02.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id o58CoxqZ013566; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:51:00 +0800 (SGT) Received: by rattlehead.sun.com (Postfix, from userid 116884) id B9DB89509; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:20:59 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:20:59 +0530 From: Venky Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E3B3F.5030907@Oracle.COM> To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Steve McKinty , James.McPherson@oracle.com, Peter Dennis , PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <20100608125058.GD1032@india.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> <4C0E3B3F.5030907@Oracle.COM> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Status: RO Content-Length: 764 On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 01:44:47PM +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote: > On 08/06/2010 13:14, Steve McKinty wrote: >> If I wrote a portable configure script which contained something >> like: >> >> if [ vax ]; then >> do vaxy setup >> else if [ u3b ]; then >> do AT&T setup >> else if [ sun ]; then >> do Solaris setup >> endif >> >> it would work unchanged on all those architectures. Take out the >> vax and u3b commands and it will then crash when run on Solaris. > > The same script will fail on Ububtu as well - I just checked they don't > exist there. And technically, this will continue to work as expected, with an extra error message like: test.sh: vax: not found. Since a "command not found" evaluates to "false", the logic would still be intact. Venky. From casper@holland.sun.com Tue Jun 8 05:52:14 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58CqEPD005234 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58Cq8AJ011383; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 07:52:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P0036Z52Z5000@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com ([129.156.101.192]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P001N952Y1U60@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 05:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holland (room101.Holland.Sun.COM [10.16.117.40]) by dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58Cq7Mi000221; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:52:07 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:52:07 +0200 From: Casper.Dik@sun.com Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E3B3F.5030907@Oracle.COM> Sender: casper@holland.sun.com To: Darren J Moffat Cc: Steve McKinty , James.McPherson@oracle.com, Peter Dennis , PSARC-ext@sun.com, venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <201006081252.o58Cq7Mi000221@dm-holland-01.uk.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0E2D2F.8000600@oracle.com> <4C0E3410.7080702@sun.com> <4C0E3B3F.5030907@Oracle.COM> Status: RO Content-Length: 285 >The same script will fail on Ububtu as well - I just checked they don't >exist there. if vax; then will fail whether vax exists with one or with vax not present. Whether "-e" is set is not important. Other than the additional errors the script will continue to run. Casper From garrett@damore.org Tue Jun 8 08:19:01 2010 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58FJ1v3007624 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 08:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58FJ125012710 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 08:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P00E1BBVPD400@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 08:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.43.22]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P007QMBVOUV20@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.COM); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 08:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay44i.sun.com ([192.5.209.118]) by sca-ea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58FG3Ft027911 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:18:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.11] [160.41.221.11]) by relay44i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-53600 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:18:59 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay41i.sun.com (relay41i.sun.com [192.5.209.70]) by mmp42es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-197300255 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:18:58 +0000 (Z) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com ([66.147.249.253] [66.147.249.253]) by relay4i.sun.com id BT-MMP-2687113 for PSARC-ext@Sun.COM; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:18:58 +0000 (Z) Received: (qmail 25273 invoked by uid 0); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:18:57 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box374.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.174) by oproxy1.bluehost.com.bluehost.com with SMTP; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:18:57 +0000 Received: from cpe-76-93-15-33.socal.res.rr.com ([76.93.15.33] helo=[192.168.251.110]) by box374.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OM0Zs-0005rL-Tm; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:18:57 -0600 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 08:19:02 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> To: Steve McKinty Cc: Peter Dennis , PSARC-ext@sun.com, venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <1276010342.1822.14.camel@velocity> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=damore.org; h=Received:Subject:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=xnuSFYh+aMjScm0orvrL8j9dCl6BUT8S9A/Xq6+xCj/hU7F6a3wWBpY3uMFc7YfS8R+p17fayCgH1Jm7rg9IO/laDSC/eTVFPyO534y7pUTDMMUZcYB0+HOFy0QFAcNh; X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Identified-User: {2225:box374.bluehost.com:damoreor:damore.org} {sentby:smtp auth 76.93.15.33 authed with garrett+damore.org} X-Antispam: No, score=-2.6/5.0, scanned in 0.598sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 3165 On Tue, 2010-06-08 at 11:59 +0200, Steve McKinty wrote: > Why are these "not relevant"? In my experience they are mostly > used in scripts and Makefiles, to ensure that the right code path > is taken. Won't removing them break older configure-style scripts, > i.e. ones that test things like "if [ ! vax ]" etc.? > > Is the gain of removal worth more than potential breakage of > older (especially FOSS) code? Most such code is developed for Linux these days, and uses different approaches (primarily parsing uname output) to determine the machine and model type. I've never seen a script that would misbehave if these tools were absent. (I've seen scripts that would misbehave if they existed and returned a false positive, but even those cases are rare... I think autoconf in particular does not use them.) In case its not clear, here's another +1 on this case. - Garrett > > Steve > > > > > Peter Dennis wrote: > > I'm sponsoring this case for Venky Tv. > > > > Required release binding: > > Patch binding for the announcement and marking as Obsolete. > > Minor binding for the removal. > > > > Template Version: @(#)sac_nextcase 1.70 03/30/10 SMI > > This information is Copyright (c) 2010, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved. > > 1. Introduction > > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > > EOF legacy processor type truth values > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > > Author: Venky TV > > 1.3 Date of This Document: > > 08 June, 2010 > > 4. Technical Description > > 1. Introduction > > 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: > > EOF legacy processor type truth values > > > > 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: > > Venky TV > > > > 1.3. Date of This Document: > > June 04, 2010 > > > > > > 4. Technical Description: > > > > 4.1. Details: > > > > This projects aims to remove processor type truth values in > > /usr/bin which are no longer relevant -- namely, iAPX286, i286, > > i860, pdp11, u3b, u3b2, u3b5, u3b15, vax, and u370. > > > > 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): > > > > 6958555 Remove processor type truth which are no longer relevant > > > > 4.5. Interfaces: > > > > The following interfaces will be deleted: > > > > /usr/bin/iAPX286 > > /usr/bin/i286 > > /usr/bin/i860 > > /usr/bin/pdp11 > > /usr/bin/u3b > > /usr/bin/u3b2 > > /usr/bin/u3b5 > > /usr/bin/u3b15 > > /usr/bin/vax > > /usr/bin/u370 > > > > 4.6. Doc Impact: > > > > The man pages for each of these utilities will be removed. > > > > iAPX286.1 i286.1 i860.1 pdp11.1 u3b.1 > > u3b2.1 u3b5.1 u3b15.i vax.i u370.1 > > > > 4.10. Packaging & Delivery: > > > > All these are part of the SUNWcs package. There is no impact > > on install/upgrade. > > > > 6. Resources and Schedule > > 6.4. Steering Committee requested information > > 6.4.1. Consolidation C-team Name: > > ON > > 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack > > 6.6. ARC Exposure: open > > > From scott.rotondo@oracle.com Tue Jun 8 13:04:59 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58K4w47013369 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58K4tK7025627; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:04:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P00G03P47BG00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P007L3P47RFD0@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58K4nS1008403; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:04:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o58K4kt8031252; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:04:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 330906941276027428; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:03:48 -0700 Received: from [129.146.108.62] (/129.146.108.62) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:03:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:03:52 -0700 From: Scott Rotondo Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> To: Steve McKinty Cc: Peter Dennis , PSARC-ext@sun.com, venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <4C0EA228.1040803@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4C0EA260.01C4:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100329 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.3 Status: RO Content-Length: 601 Several people have pointed out that the harm from removing these commands isn't that great because (a) recent scripts tend not to use this mechanism to figure out the type of platform, and (b) older scripts will still work (with error messages) because a missing command evaluates to false. But what about the other side of the cost-benefit equation? What's the upside from removing a handful of tiny files? I'm afraid I don't see it. Scott -- Scott Rotondo Senior Principal Engineer, Solaris Core OS Engineering President, Trusted Computing Group Phone: +1 650 786 6309 (Internal x86309) From garrett@damore.org Tue Jun 8 13:15:13 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o58KFDcp013421 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o58KFCiJ000261 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:15:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3P00L0DPLCVE00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3P00L8WPLCCR00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay13i.sun.com (ip123.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.123]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o58KFCPf011809 for ; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:15:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.14] [160.41.208.14]) by relay13i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2708625 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:15:12 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (relay14i.sun.com [129.179.4.124]) by mmp14es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-613451 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:15:11 +0000 (Z) Received: from oproxy3-pub.bluehost.com ([69.89.21.8] [69.89.21.8]) by relay1i.sun.com id BT-MMP-37380062 for PSARC-ext@sun.com; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:15:11 +0000 (Z) Received: (qmail 21768 invoked by uid 0); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:15:11 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box374.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.174) by oproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:15:10 +0000 Received: from cpe-76-93-15-33.socal.res.rr.com ([76.93.15.33] helo=[192.168.251.110]) by box374.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OM5CY-0000DG-QU; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:15:10 -0600 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:15:18 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0EA228.1040803@oracle.com> To: Scott Rotondo Cc: Steve McKinty , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis , venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <1276028118.1822.51.camel@velocity> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=damore.org; h=Received:Subject:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=Wn5iVhcYjSxLxCR7yoq6AoTFMeoz3GWKZCwGbKQ0KLu4GKwqrpcH0X/UsIFO4hF+UuHgF73IFFO6gL3G5dqKVu5caAhkp7fABCppRky51dFZ4Gqr0nIjd6awsqAGWPtX; X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Identified-User: {2225:box374.bluehost.com:damoreor:damore.org} {sentby:smtp auth 76.93.15.33 authed with garrett+damore.org} X-Antispam: No, score=-0.2/5.0, scanned in 0.313sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0EA228.1040803@oracle.com> Status: RO Content-Length: 1311 On Tue, 2010-06-08 at 13:03 -0700, Scott Rotondo wrote: > Several people have pointed out that the harm from removing these > commands isn't that great because > > (a) recent scripts tend not to use this mechanism to figure out the type > of platform, and > > (b) older scripts will still work (with error messages) because a > missing command evaluates to false. > > But what about the other side of the cost-benefit equation? What's the > upside from removing a handful of tiny files? I'm afraid I don't see it. Its there: a) people might decide that these are good tools for portability checks (they aren't!) b) people might complain that other processor types are not included, but we've already said that no new cpu types are getting added c) therefore, should folks doing new ports create them for arm, s390, etc.? I hope not! d) every bit costs something. to compile, to link, to deliver. Just in the listing of /usr/bin. Anything which serves no useful function should IMO be removed. (Individually, these costs are minuscule, but taken collectively over the entire life of a distribution, across everyone who ever looks at them, has to compile, build or install them, and across multiple such "trivially useless" projects, the costs can be much larger.) -- Garrett > > Scott > From alan.coopersmith@oracle.com Tue Jun 8 18:13:51 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o591Dp2Z021373 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM (nwk-avmta-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.74]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o591DoRJ005408 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@Sun.Com>; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 20:13:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3Q009013F2PC00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com ([129.145.155.118]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3Q007LX3F2R070@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM> for PSARC-ext@Sun.Com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@Sun.Com); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.6.102.27] (sunray-osol-1.SFBay.Sun.COM [10.6.102.27]) by dm-sfbay-01.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o591DjHq025172; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:13:45 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <1337418908.51276045024054.JavaMail.Twebapp@sf-app1> To: "Richard L. Hamilton" Cc: opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org, PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <4C0EEAC9.5010802@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.1 References: <1337418908.51276045024054.JavaMail.Twebapp@sf-app1> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090926) Status: RO Content-Length: 537 Note that there is one known issue caused by having the /usr/bin/i386 & /usr/bin/i486 binaries - every isaexec command on x86 trips over it when looking for the subdir to find isa-specific binaries in before finding them in /usr/bin/i86 (the more generic ISA required to avoid the name clash). [Though given the current set of supported CPU's, that could also be fixed by renaming /usr/bin/i86/ to /usr/bin/pentium/ .] -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System From scott.rotondo@oracle.com Wed Jun 9 00:09:39 2010 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5979dwX013870 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 00:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5979axT040311; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 01:09:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3Q00C07JW0R600@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 00:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3Q002ZYJVZHX70@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 00:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5979YZN016615; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 07:09:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o592CjpL032340; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 07:09:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt006.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 332042151276067358; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 00:09:18 -0700 Received: from viaggio.local (/69.226.236.206) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 00:09:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 00:09:16 -0700 From: Scott Rotondo Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <1276028118.1822.51.camel@velocity> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Steve McKinty , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis , venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <4C0F3E1C.6050308@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4C0F3E20.0028:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0EA228.1040803@oracle.com> <1276028118.1822.51.camel@velocity> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 Status: RO Content-Length: 1822 On 6/8/10 1:15 PM, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > d) every bit costs something. to compile, to link, to deliver. Just in > the listing of /usr/bin. Anything which serves no useful function > should IMO be removed. (Individually, these costs are minuscule, but > taken collectively over the entire life of a distribution, across > everyone who ever looks at them, has to compile, build or install them, > and across multiple such "trivially useless" projects, the costs can be > much larger.) While I don't feel strongly about this particular case, I have to say I don't really buy that argument in general. Many parts of Solaris may have value to only a relatively small audience, but the positive value to that audience is often much larger than the small gain to everyone else from removing the feature. I'm not convinced that we have an effective way to figure out which features fall into this category, unless someone who cares about the feature happens to be watching PSARC when the EOF fast-track goes by. This is similar to the discussion about which packages to remove from SFW; even if each individual package (or feature) is valuable only to a small group, removing enough pieces makes it likely that everyone is affected by at least one of the removals. For the SFW packages, I like the suggestion that was made earlier about reviewing the overall removal plan rather than discovering it through individual fast-tracks. I don't know that it's possible to review a similar plan for small feature removals like this case, but we should be aware that the same limitations apply in our ability to judge the impact of individual removals. Scott -- Scott Rotondo Senior Principal Engineer, Solaris Core OS Engineering President, Trusted Computing Group Phone: +1 650 786 6309 (Internal x86309) From venkytv@sun.com Wed Jun 9 00:55:13 2010 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o597tDhc018505 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 00:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o597tDer021942 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:PSARC-ext@sun.com>; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 00:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3Q00L0ZM017I00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dm-india-02.singapore.sun.com ([129.158.71.104]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3Q00HMJLZZ9Y20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for PSARC-ext@sun.com (ORCPT PSARC-ext@sun.com); Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rattlehead.sun.com (rattlehead.India.Sun.COM [129.158.227.201]) by dm-india-02.singapore.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id o597t31Q015791; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 15:55:03 +0800 (SGT) Received: by rattlehead.sun.com (Postfix, from userid 116884) id CC981966A; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 13:25:02 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 13:25:02 +0530 From: Venky Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C0EEAC9.5010802@oracle.com> To: "Richard L. Hamilton" Cc: PSARC-ext@sun.com Message-id: <20100609075501.GI19684@india.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 References: <1337418908.51276045024054.JavaMail.Twebapp@sf-app1> <4C0EEAC9.5010802@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Status: RO Content-Length: 1109 > Nevertheless, if there are _any_ scripts that use it, unless you get > rid of all 29 (or however many) links to it, I don't see any incremental gain > by removing some of them. Am taking the conservative approach here by removing only those commands which could not possibly return true. It would be great to be able to remove all processor truth value commands, but the risk of breaking existing scripts is too high. This is an attempt to get rid of as much clutter as possible without breaking anything. (And in the process, get tiny benefits like making tab-completions of command names in bash more relevant, though that is not the main intent of this case.) And you are right. There are more of these commands which are not listed in the manpages and are also not relevant any more -- the Motorola m68k series, for example. Plan to add these to the case. We might end up with just the following left behind -- sun, sparc, i386, i486, i86pc -- and have all of these deleted (along with the ones listed in the original 1pager): /usr/bin/sun[234]* /usr/bin/mc68* /usr/bin/m68k Venky. From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Wed Jun 9 09:33:47 2010 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o59GXlIM025532 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 09:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o59GXi3D001042; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 09:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3R00I0HA08RD00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 10:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3R00MDRA06W6F0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 10:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o59GXfhU008813; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:33:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o59EHJK6008690; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:33:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 333543031276101135; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 09:32:15 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 09 Jun 2010 09:32:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:32:09 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <1276028118.1822.51.camel@velocity> To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Scott Rotondo , Steve McKinty , PSARC-ext@sun.com, Peter Dennis , venky.tv@sun.com Message-id: <20100609163209.GA9605@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4C0FC25C.0144:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <201006080852.o588qu16001282@sac.sfbay.sun.com> <4C0E147C.8090706@sun.com> <4C0EA228.1040803@oracle.com> <1276028118.1822.51.camel@velocity> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) Status: RO Content-Length: 417 On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 01:15:18PM -0700, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > d) every bit costs something. to compile, to link, to deliver. [...] There's also a run-time cost. Anyone who's browsed for executables to open media content with from Firefox will have observed that browsing /bin borders on the painful. (Granted, this is a problem in FF, not the OS. For non-GUI apps, with ZFS root, this cost is negligible.) From peter.dennis@oracle.com Thu Jun 10 08:51:11 2010 Received: from sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail3mpk.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.146.11.52]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5AFpBDj009255 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail3mpk.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5AFp9ia011047; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3T004012P9WQ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.98.31]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3T003MJ2P9E510@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5AFp9R8011033; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:51:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o5A8owZU018566; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:51:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt016.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 314273761276185037; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:50:37 -0700 Received: from [129.156.198.33] (/129.156.198.33) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:50:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:50:34 +0100 From: Peter Dennis Subject: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack, timeout 06/15/2010] To: psarc-ext@sun.com, Venky TV Message-id: <4C1109CA.8050706@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4C1109EB.0230:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100214 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 2946 Below is an amended proposal. Timer is not reset as it essentially clarifies the discussion so far. Required release binding: Patch binding for the announcement and marking as Obsolete. Minor binding for the removal. 1. Introduction 1.1. Project/Component Working Name: EOF legacy processor type truth values 1.2. Name of Document Author/Supplier: Venky TV 1.3. Date of This Document: June 04, 2010 4. Technical Description: 4.1. Details: This projects aims to remove processor type truth values in /usr/bin which are no longer relevant -- namely, i286, i860, iAPX286, m68k, mc68000, mc68010, mc68020, mc68030, mc68040, sun2, sun3, sun3x, sun4, sun4c, sun4d, sun4e, u370, u3b, u3b15, u3b2, u3b5, vax and pdp11 Since none of these platforms are supported by the current release of Solaris, these executable always return a non-zero exit code. Any utility still depending on these executables for processor type checks will continue working as expected (with some extra error messages) as "command not found" equates to "false" as far as the exit codes are concerned. As an exception, support for sun4m is still being retained because it is possible that a script which is also designed to run on Solaris 9 (a release that supports sun4m) might possibly benefit from not encountering "command not found" error messages. Once Solaris 9 is EOL'd, the sun4m binary can be dropped. 4.2. Bug/RFE Number(s): 6958555 Remove processor type truth which are no longer relevant 4.5. Interfaces: The following interfaces will be deleted: /usr/bin/i286 /usr/bin/i860 /usr/bin/iAPX286 /usr/bin/m68k /usr/bin/mc68000 /usr/bin/mc68010 /usr/bin/mc68020 /usr/bin/mc68030 /usr/bin/mc68040 /usr/bin/sun2 /usr/bin/sun3 /usr/bin/sun3x /usr/bin/sun4 /usr/bin/sun4c /usr/bin/sun4d /usr/bin/sun4e /usr/bin/u370 /usr/bin/u3b /usr/bin/u3b15 /usr/bin/u3b2 /usr/bin/u3b5 /usr/bin/vax /usr/bin/pdp11 4.6. Doc Impact: The man pages for each of these utilities will be removed. iAPX286.1 i286.1 i860.1 pdp11.1 u3b.1 u3b2.1 u3b5.1 u3b15.i vax.i u370.1 4.10. Packaging & Delivery: All these are part of the SUNWcs package. There is no impact on install/upgrade. 6. Resources and Schedule: 6.4. Product Approval Committee requested information: 6.4.1. Consolidation or Component Name: ON 6.5. ARC review type: FastTrack 6.6. ARC Exposure: Open From garrett@damore.org Thu Jun 10 09:05:39 2010 Received: from sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (sunmail2sca.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.234]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5AG5dhn009661 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5AG5dHM002109 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3T006013DF3Z00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3T003KO3DEE820@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:05:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay43i.sun.com ([192.5.209.74]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5AFw4pT013960 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:05:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp41es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.10] [160.41.221.10]) by relay43i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-15210 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:05:38 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay45i.sun.com (relay45i.sun.com [192.5.209.94]) by mmp41es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-202802794 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:05:37 +0000 (Z) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com ([66.147.249.253] [66.147.249.253]) by relay4i.sun.com id BT-MMP-526391 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:05:36 +0000 (Z) Received: (qmail 2498 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:05:36 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box374.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.174) by oproxy1.bluehost.com.bluehost.com with SMTP; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:05:35 +0000 Received: from 17.sub-97-8-87.myvzw.com ([97.8.87.17] helo=localhost) by box374.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OMkG5-0006zz-BK; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:05:35 -0600 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:05:43 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack, timeout 06/15/2010] To: Peter Dennis , psarc-ext@sun.com, Venky TV Message-id: Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=damore.org; h=Received:Date:Subject:Message-ID:From:To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=FXzY6sE0RAHcS1UZzgiqSagSqohcNRt9ZfgOb+OreI/XK+5IweBp1OpMGTyOBNJPJSO3oAXgrY2M6RCH+UQgeo9x1ytAF7w9/1PGNBQjcwq76rP9aFW/C7rBtVMMCMYJ; X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Identified-User: {2225:box374.bluehost.com:damoreor:damore.org} {sentby:smtp auth 97.8.87.17 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o5AId2Hd064123; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3T0070NAH25O00@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.24]) by nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3T00K4SAH1XL30@nwk-avmta-1.sfbay.Sun.COM>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay42i.sun.com ([192.5.209.72]) by sca-ea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5AIalZr014031; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:39:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp41es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.221.10] [160.41.221.10]) by relay42i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-23316; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:38:51 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay45i.sun.com (relay45i.sun.com [192.5.209.94]) by mmp41es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-203091633; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:38:51 +0000 (Z) Received: from mail-iw0-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177] [209.85.214.177]) by relay4i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-913478; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:38:50 +0000 (Z) Received: by iwn34 with SMTP id 34so236546iwn.8 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.123.194 with SMTP id q2mr500335ibr.166.1276195064372; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.211.78 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:37:44 +0200 From: =?KOI8-R?B?z8zYx8Egy9LZ1sHOz9fTy8HR?= Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack, timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: To: "Garrett D'Amore" Cc: Peter Dennis , psarc-ext@sun.com, Venky TV Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=LrUg+HlWk8x/0OqOfdv1j6BQCodMSgWcYkaUpmsSyL4=; b=BtSmLA5kiQgZJPHVlm29Mfhc9V8h+CdA53BeqUMW/maE2uQUKCKeQS2Jrl2ylm1BXh 458qCgDZt0CjlMjETdB0lsJ0y3S9vpESxf48tXLpQHKzpVrGeN23U2jgNbnpxISKpY/P ZqVDWMb3Cwq9nUXNan1w2/873Ev2owRh6E1IE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=UvYFgpqO8FjLkrw636bg+zlZ3abblQGbRUkr23Kgub3p+bz3TxiXc/r+eXOX3SX9mY ZQ1WgDgQhiJ9xQ5KQlQE0kWl6Rvkn9dELopzz1hAPa5PMhTI3Hx4nYU/lHFL0cOlIubj GnkjgTOgSuT4EewKSCXpB3pViNwLSpqbL+h5U= X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 0.096sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: Status: RO Content-Length: 5045 How long did you type on the text below? :) Something is wrong, either list or mail app. Olga 2010/6/10 Garrett D'Amore : > 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Andrew.Gabriel@oracle.com Thu Jun 10 11:48:59 2010 Received: from newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (newsunmail1brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.62.245]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5AImwg0012177 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by newsunmail1brm.central.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.13.7/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5AImtNg004372; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:48:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3T00307AXKSG00@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3T000ODAXJSVC0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5AImt8N007396; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:48:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o5AImgG9017763; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:48:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 314906371276195689; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:48:09 -0700 Received: from [81.187.162.109] (/81.187.162.109) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:48:08 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:48:29 +0100 From: Andrew Gabriel Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack, timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: To: =?UTF-8?B?0L7Qu9GM0LPQsCDQutGA0YvQttCw0L3QvtCy0YHQutCw0Y8=?= Cc: "Garrett D'Amore" , Peter Dennis , psarc-ext@sun.com, Venky TV Message-id: <4C11337D.6070205@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4C113391.0029:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) Status: RO Content-Length: 428 If you base64 decode it, it just says: +1 ;-) ольга крыжановская wrote: > How long did you type on the text below? :) > > Something is wrong, either list or mail app. > > Olga > > 2010/6/10 Garrett D'Amore : > >> KzEKClBldGVyIERlbm5pcyA8cGV0ZXIuZGVubmlzQG9yYWNsZS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPkJlbG93 >> IGlzIGFuIGFtZW5kZWQgcHJvcG9zYWwuIFRpbWVyIGlzIG5vdCByZXNldCBhcyBpdCBlc3NlbnRp >> [snip] From michael.schuster@oracle.com Thu Jun 10 11:55:13 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5AItDWn012518 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5AIt70h014790; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:55:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3T00K03B7YHQ00@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.43.25]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3T0037MB7XEDC0@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by sca-ea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5AIt9ml009694; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:55:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o5AIslvg029653; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:54:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt008.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 337019981276196013; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:53:33 -0700 Received: from [10.7.250.85] (/10.7.250.85) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:53:32 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:53:28 +0200 From: Michael Schuster Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack, timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C11337D.6070205@oracle.com> To: Andrew Gabriel Cc: =?UTF-8?B?0L7Qu9GM0LPQsCDQutGA0YvQttCw0L3QvtCy0YHQutCw0Y8=?= , "Garrett D'Amore" , Peter Dennis , psarc-ext@sun.com, Venky TV Message-id: <4C1134A8.3030700@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4C1134FF.013F:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <4C11337D.6070205@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.2.4) Gecko/20100602 Thunderbird/3.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 259 On 10.06.10 20:48, Andrew Gabriel wrote: > If you base64 decode it, it just says: > > +1 Garrett does sometimes have a roundabout way of saying things ;-)) cheers -- michael.schuster@oracle.com http://blogs.sun.com/recursion Recursion, n.: see 'Recursion' From garrett@damore.org Thu Jun 10 13:38:48 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5AKcl9Q014282 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (brm-avmta-1.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.11]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5AKclar003041 for <@sunmail2sca.sfbay.sun.com:psarc-ext@sun.com>; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:38:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L3T00605G0NS200@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L3T0024HG0MYQ20@brm-avmta-1.central.sun.com> for psarc-ext@sun.com (ORCPT psarc-ext@sun.com); Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay11i.sun.com (ip121.net129179-4.block1.us.syntegra.com [129.179.4.121]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5AKNVqP010282 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:38:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com ([160.41.208.12] [160.41.208.12]) by relay11i.sun.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-3442969 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:38:46 +0000 (Z) Received: from relay14i.sun.com (relay14i.sun.com [129.179.4.124]) by mmp12es.mmp.us.syntegra.com with ESMTP id BT-MMP-268922980 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:38:45 +0000 (Z) Received: from oproxy3-pub.bluehost.com ([69.89.21.8] [69.89.21.8]) by relay1i.sun.com id BT-MMP-1902043 for psarc-ext@sun.com; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:38:45 +0000 (Z) Received: (qmail 30267 invoked by uid 0); Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:05 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box374.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.174) by oproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:05 +0000 Received: from [75.101.29.25] (helo=[10.1.208.227]) by box374.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OMoQ0-0006dz-Oe; Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:32:05 -0600 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:35:25 -0700 From: "Garrett D'Amore" Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack, timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: To: =?UTF-8?B?0L7Qu9GM0LPQsCDQutGA0YvQttCw0L3QvtCy0YHQutCw0Y8=?= Cc: Peter Dennis , psarc-ext@sun.com, Venky TV Message-id: <4C1168AD.60405@damore.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=damore.org; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=H5OVZQLhtMgkSTg+npolp1haMsKTMdwnOXg/r/IRv7turOebTaIDLfzuViXHIa9qJFPRAD/Cu8bKDESrxLaVaHcSv5HmS0UtGFF7pqK9hEXsLR7dG2cM7o7wIxt5vnbo; X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Identified-User: {2225:box374.bluehost.com:damoreor:damore.org} {sentby:smtp auth 75.101.29.25 authed with garrett+damore.org} X-Antispam: No, score=0.0/5.0, scanned in 1.082sec at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smf-spamd v1.3.1 - http://smfs.sf.net/ References: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091206 Lightning/1.0pre Thunderbird/3.0 Status: RO Content-Length: 5205 The problem is toxicity in the PSARC mailing list software with the Android client. I think what is happening is that the PSARC processing is stripping of the bits that are responsible for indicating the mime encoding for this. I'm sorry about this, I just need to stop responding to PSARC mail from my mobile. - Garrett On 06/10/10 11:37, ольга крыжановская wrote: > How long did you type on the text below? :) > > Something is wrong, either list or mail app. > > Olga > > 2010/6/10 Garrett D'Amore: > >> KzEKClBldGVyIERlbm5pcyA8cGV0ZXIuZGVubmlzQG9yYWNsZS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPkJlbG93 >> IGlzIGFuIGFtZW5kZWQgcHJvcG9zYWwuIFRpbWVyIGlzIG5vdCByZXNldCBhcyBpdCBlc3NlbnRp >> YWxseQo+Y2xhcmlmaWVzIHRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIHNvIGZhci4KPgo+UmVxdWlyZWQgcmVsZWFz >> ZSBiaW5kaW5nOgo+ICAgICBQYXRjaCBiaW5kaW5nIGZvciB0aGUgYW5ub3VuY2VtZW50IGFuZCBt >> YXJraW5nIGFzIE9ic29sZXRlLgo+ICAgICBNaW5vciBiaW5kaW5nIGZvciB0aGUgcmVtb3ZhbC4K >> Pgo+Cj4xLiBJbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24KPiAgICAxLjEuIFByb2plY3QvQ29tcG9uZW50IFdvcmtpbmcg >> TmFtZToKPiAgICAgICAgIEVPRiBsZWdhY3kgcHJvY2Vzc29yIHR5cGUgdHJ1dGggdmFsdWVzCj4K >> PiAgICAxLjIuIE5hbWUgb2YgRG9jdW1lbnQgQXV0aG9yL1N1cHBsaWVyOgo+ICAgICAgICAgVmVu >> a3kgVFYKPgo+ICAgIDEuMy4gRGF0ZSBvZiBUaGlzIERvY3VtZW50Ogo+ICAgICAgICAgSnVuZSAw >> 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opensolaris-arc@opensolaris.org >> >> > > > From peter.dennis@oracle.com Wed Jun 16 10:20:20 2010 Received: from sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (sunmail6brm.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.4.169]) by sac.sfbay.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o5GHKKLB026212 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (nwk-avmta-2.SFBay.Sun.COM [129.145.155.6]) by sunmail6brm.central.sun.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8/ENSMAIL,v2.4) with ESMTP id o5GHKF8f004017; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:20:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) id <0L4400J0VATUX200@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.04 (built Jul 15 2005)) with ESMTP id <0L4400C87ATTODA0@nwk-avmta-2.sfbay.sun.com>; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id o5GHKH9W013948; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:20:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o5GEbA3I029128; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:20:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from abhmt005.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 331291951276708722; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:18:42 -0700 Received: from [129.150.120.241] (/129.150.120.241) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:18:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:18:40 +0100 From: Peter Dennis Subject: Re: EOF legacy processor type truth values [PSARC/2010/211 FastTrack, timeout 06/15/2010] In-reply-to: <4C1109CA.8050706@oracle.com> To: psarc-ext@sun.com, Venky TV Message-id: <4C190770.5070707@oracle.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-PMX-Version: 5.4.1.325704 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4C1907D1.0086:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 References: <4C1109CA.8050706@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100214 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 Status: RO Content-Length: 112 This case has timed out with a +1 and, in addition, was approved during the PSARC meeting of 16-Jun-2010. pete